American Board of Perio's stance on the term 'periodontal plastic surgeon"

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Yellowman

Yellowman

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To perio residents out there...

what is the american board of perio's stance on the term 'periodontal plastic surgeon?' Does the board condone it's use or condemn it? What are the perio residents' feelings on the usage of this term? This is a genuine post, not meant to offend anyone. Speak up please....
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I had to post one more time to hit 100th post :hardy:....not getting much studying done for step II tho....getting worried
 
I searched the American Academy of Periodontology website, thinking that I might find something there, but I didn't. I probably don't know where to look anyway.

Yellowman, what makes you think there is an official statement on the term?
 
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ItsGavinC said:
I searched the American Academy of Periodontology website, thinking that I might find something there, but I didn't. I probably don't know where to look anyway.

Yellowman, what makes you think there is an official statement on the term?
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Taken from American Dental Association's Principle of Ethics

5-C. Announcement of Specialization and Limitation of Practice.

The special areas of dental practice approved by the American Dental Association and the designation for ethical specialty announcement and limitation of practice are: dental public health, endodontics, oral and maxillofacial pathology, oral and maxillofacial surgery, orthodontics and dentofacial orthopedics, pediatric dentistry, periodontics and prosthodontics.

Dentists who choose to announce specialization should use "specialist in" or "practice limited to" and shall limit their practice exclusively to the announced special area(s) of dental practice, provided at the time of the announcement such dentists have met in each approved specialty for which they announce the existing educational requirements and standards set forth by the American Dental Association.

Advisory Opinion

A dentist who announces in any means of communication with patients or the general public that he or she is certified or a diplomats in an area of dentistry not recognized by the American Dental Association or the law of the jurisdiction where the dentist practices as a specialty area of dentistry is engaged in making a false or misleading representation to the public in a material respect.
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Based on the above, it seems that periodontal plastic surgery is not an ADA accredited dental specialty, and thus advertising yourself as such may be in violation of ADA's code of ethics. It's similar to general dentists calling themselves 'esthetic denstists.' I believe such practice is frowned upon by many as it is a form of false advertisement, especially considering the fact that no such specialty exists and thus may be misinforming the patient population.

I wanted to hear from perio residents what their thoughts are on this matter. I also figured the perio board might take a stance on this subject, but I guess not.
 
Yellowman said:
I had to post one more time to hit 100th post :hardy:....not getting much studying done for step II tho....getting worried
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Sorry to sidetrack your original post.......

I'm also taking my step II soon....well.... in november. What are you using to study besides qbank and first aide?
 
Doggie said:
Sorry to sidetrack your original post.......

I'm also taking my step II soon....well.... in november. What are you using to study besides qbank and first aide?
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nothing much more. I am trying to finish usmleworld questions...i try to annotate first aid after doing the questions, and supplement with blueprints as necessary. the usmleworld questions are hard...i am getting killed on the questions, but i am seeing some slow improvements....:thumbup: i've looked at some nbme questions and they are quite a bit easier than the qbanks, and i've heard from others that if you are averaging around 50% on the qbanks, you are golden so i am hoping for the best. i've got less than three weeks left:scared:
 
Yellowman said:
I wanted to hear from perio residents what their thoughts are on this matter. I also figured the perio board might take a stance on this subject, but I guess not.
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There are a lot of things that the perio (AAP) board fails to do. They couldn't even stop rich pharmceutical companies from falsely advertising their products. You know Arestin, Perio chip etc... do nothing in long term to help perio patients. Having practiced periodontics for 5 years, my wife loves what she has done for her patients but she never talked highly of the board that she is supposed to support. I share similar feeling about my ortho board supporting Invisalign; I know, of course, a lot of my ortho colleagues out there will disagree with me on this.
 
Yellowman said:
nothing much more. I am trying to finish usmleworld questions...i try to annotate first aid after doing the questions, and supplement with blueprints as necessary. the usmleworld questions are hard...i am getting killed on the questions, but i am seeing some slow improvements....:thumbup: i've looked at some nbme questions and they are quite a bit easier than the qbanks, and i've heard from others that if you are averaging around 50% on the qbanks, you are golden so i am hoping for the best. i've got less than three weeks left:scared:
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i got less than 1 week!
 
Yellowman said:
Based on the above, it seems that periodontal plastic surgery is not an ADA accredited dental specialty, and thus advertising yourself as such may be in violation of ADA's code of ethics. It's similar to general dentists calling themselves 'esthetic denstists.' I believe such practice is frowned upon by many as it is a form of false advertisement, especially considering the fact that no such specialty exists and thus may be misinforming the patient population.

I wanted to hear from perio residents what their thoughts are on this matter. I also figured the perio board might take a stance on this subject, but I guess not.
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Is practicing and announcing oneself as a general practice dentist (and consequently practicing as one) as well as a specialist in say, OMFS or perio, etc., a violation of this opinion and/or state law (assuming proper training in OMFS, perio, etc.)? If so, what is the reason for this?
 
WestCoast said:
i got less than 1 week!
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good luck bro:thumbup:

cel083 said:
Is practicing and announcing oneself as a general practice dentist (and consequently practicing as one) as well as a specialist in say, OMFS or perio, etc., a violation of this opinion and/or state law (assuming proper training in OMFS, perio, etc.)? If so, what is the reason for this?
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It's not illegal per say, but I do believe it is unethical to practice both as a specialist and generalist.
 
Yellowman said:
To perio residents out there...

what is the american board of perio's stance on the term 'periodontal plastic surgeon?' Does the board condone it's use or condemn it? What are the perio residents' feelings on the usage of this term? This is a genuine post, not meant to offend anyone. Speak up please....
Click to expand...

I am a prosthodontist so I can't speak for periodontists but my personal opinion is that the "PPS" terminology is quite ridiculous. It makes you to be something that you are not. I am sure others can come up a zillion reasons why the term should be rightfully reserved for periodontists but I don't feel it is right. If you are a periodontist, then say " I am a periodontist". If you are a dentist, then say " I am a dentist". There is no need to say " I am a periodontal plastic surgeon" or " I am a doctor". Just say what you are and don't confuse the public. Be proud of what you are and the more you try to "butter up" yourself, the more insecure you will become. DP
 
Dr. Dai Phan said:
I am a prosthodontist so I can't speak for periodontists but my personal opinion is that the "PPS" terminology is quite ridiculous. It makes you to be something that you are not. I am sure others can come up a zillion reasons why the term should be rightfully reserved for periodontists but I don't feel it is right. If you are a periodontist, then say " I am a periodontist". If you are a dentist, then say " I am a dentist". There is no need to say " I am a periodontal plastic surgeon" or " I am a doctor". Just say what you are and don't confuse the public. Be proud of what you are and the more you try to "butter up" yourself, the more insecure you will become. DP
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Agreed, we are what we are, and don't glorify things. My pet peeve is folks claiming to be a "cosmetic dentist". Come on, we're all cosmetic dentists if we've placed a restoration.

My favorite periodontist term came right out of the mouth of one of the former heads of the perio dept at UCONN, who happens to have a line of instruments named after him. I jokingly said to him that it must be nice to ask for your name sake instrument, and his reply to me was "Well Jeff, when you're essentially a glorified hygenist, you need something to set you apart":laugh:
 
DrJeff said:
Agreed, we are what we are, and don't glorify things. My pet peeve is folks claiming to be a "cosmetic dentist". Come on, we're all cosmetic dentists if we've placed a restoration.
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When my non-dental friends asked me if I wanted to be a cosmetic dentist back when I was a dental student, I used to ask them if they knew any non-cosmetic dentists who would purposely do unesthetic dental work....I loved the puzzled look on their faces when I posed that question. I further enjoyed the look on their faces when I informed that their family dentist (who advertises themselves as cosmetic dentists) practiced not any different from a 'non cosmetic' dentist. The look of disappointment was worth the effort the explanation.

BTW, I wondered why periodontists didn't take it a step further and adopt the term 'perio plastic and reconstructive surgeons' given how they always flaunt their ability to maintain and reconstruct periodontium. Seems to be more of a fitting title :confused: You mind as well go all out :rolleyes: Overall, I don't see the need for periodontists to adopt this silly term in my opinion. It's unnecessary and may even be unethical (thus the purpose of this thread as to why the perio board doesn't take a stance on this issue). Perio is a great specialty (as are other dental specialties)....like I said b4 in another thread, I strongly considered perio when I was in dental school, so I know what competenet periodontists are capable of.
 
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charlestweed said:
There are a lot of things that the perio (AAP) board fails to do. They couldn’t even stop rich pharmceutical companies from falsely advertising their products. You know Arestin, Perio chip etc... do nothing in long term to help perio patients. Having practiced periodontics for 5 years, my wife loves what she has done for her patients but she never talked highly of the board that she is supposed to support.
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When you have a moment, please ask for your wife's opinion on Periostat.
 
Yellowman said:
To perio residents out there...

what is the american board of perio's stance on the term 'periodontal plastic surgeon?' Does the board condone it's use or condemn it? What are the perio residents' feelings on the usage of this term? This is a genuine post, not meant to offend anyone. Speak up please....
Click to expand...

Im not a big fan of the perio residency program, but why do you guys seem to care so much? Who gives a **** what they want to call themselves?
 
Dr. Dai Phan said:
I am a prosthodontist so I can't speak for periodontists but my personal opinion is that the "PPS" terminology is quite ridiculous. It makes you to be something that you are not. I am sure others can come up a zillion reasons why the term should be rightfully reserved for periodontists but I don't feel it is right. If you are a periodontist, then say " I am a periodontist". If you are a dentist, then say " I am a dentist". There is no need to say " I am a periodontal plastic surgeon" or " I am a doctor". Just say what you are and don't confuse the public. Be proud of what you are and the more you try to "butter up" yourself, the more insecure you will become. DP
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I agree whole heartedly. I also hate it when you meet other colleagues within the same profession, be it general dentists or dental specialists, they introduce themselves as "Dr. (dip****)" when you have already introduced yourself by your first name.

I dont like false advertisement either. "Hi, I am a periodontal plastic surgeon." When I first met flat4 during his externship at my program, I introduced myself by my full name and he introduced himself as "mullet b!tch." No false advertisement......and that's how it should be.
 
psiyung said:
Im not a big fan of the perio residency program, but why do you guys seem to care so much? Who gives a **** what they want to call themselves?
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Because they're misleading and deceptive, and that reflects back on all of us within the profession.

Also, as long as I'm already typing, fix your signature, please.
 
aphistis said:
Because they're misleading and deceptive, and that reflects back on all of us within the profession.
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Yes, which was why this thread was started. I am still waiting on perio guys to comment on this matter.
 
aphistis said:
Because they're misleading and deceptive, and that reflects back on all of us within the profession.
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But do you think that average layman really cares? "Sherry, I'm going to go see my periodontal plastic surgeon." Of course they are not going to say that, and they really dont care. If the poor periodontists want to come out with a slogan like that, I can't really care less
 
psiyung said:
But do you think that average layman really cares? "Sherry, I'm going to go see my periodontal plastic surgeon." Of course they are not going to say that, and they really dont care. If the poor periodontists want to come out with a slogan like that, I can't really care less
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I think you should care because deceptive claim hurts the image of dentistry and as a member of the dental society, your voice does make a difference. DP
 
Yellowman said:
So the whole crew is in on it....great. Also, I think the patient in the first photo looks more attractive and feminine in the pre-perio plastic surgery than the post-op. In the post op photo, the pt looks like a she-man. Definitely less approachable. :scared:
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Hey St... Loosen up bro! You should hang out more with Halaby and us to somewhere in the flats , next to shooters :love::love::love::love:
 
I'm going to be a pulp replacement surgeon ;)
 
Yellowman said:
So the whole crew is in on it....great. Also, I think the patient in the first photo looks more attractive and feminine in the pre-perio plastic surgery than the post-op. In the post op photo, the pt looks like a she-man. Definitely less approachable. :scared:
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1) I particularly like the "Look at her glamour-shot after photo compared to the Polaroid we took before" pattern.

2) Someone should do some periodontal plastic surgery on the AAP's website.
 
I can't believe those are the pictures they post on their national website. They are horrible. If I put crappy pics like those in a presentation I would get yelled at.
 
I'm not going to try and defend this because I really hate it when dentists use meaningless buzzwords for marketing purposes (especially specialists) But just FYI, some of the first technique papers on these types of procedures in the 60's used the term since some flap design techniques were borrowed from plastics. It's not a new term that was developed to increase pt acceptance.

I don't think that the amount of people using the term in marketing is high and I'm much more concerned with deceptive practices that market mercury-free dentistry. A simple google search for "periodontal plastic surgeon" nets 10 results, 3 of which are threads on this forum. The same search for "mercury free dentist" nets 9700 results.

Some perspective, please.
 
The plague has spread to Pacific.

Had a riveting lecture on Scope of Periodontal Surgery, two terms used:

Chemotherapy - aka: chlorohexadine. How can this term be ethically be used? In the minds of the patient, Chemotherapy is used for one thing, cancer. Seems like excessive use of terms.

Periodontal Plastic Surgery - Justs seems horribly excessive to refer to it as plastic surgery. The patients do not understand what plastic surgery really means...they're probably thinking of something far more complex than soft tissue grafts. Although I do like the dummying down with terms like gummy-tuck.....
 
Dr.Millisevert said:
Oral Plastic Surgery
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Always chuckle when I see the doctoral redundancy, Dr. Joe Schmoe, DDS, MHS. I guess oral plastic surgery sounds better to the patient than soft tissue grafting or mucogingival surgery :rolleyes: I really like how he's only got one procedure listed when you hit the oral plastic surgery link. I expect a little more from our perio plastic surgeons ;)
 
wizziefiend said:
The plague has spread to Pacific.

Had a riveting lecture on Scope of Periodontal Surgery, two terms used:

Chemotherapy - aka: chlorohexadine. How can this term be ethically be used? In the minds of the patient, Chemotherapy is used for one thing, cancer. Seems like excessive use of terms.

Periodontal Plastic Surgery - Justs seems horribly excessive to refer to it as plastic surgery. The patients do not understand what plastic surgery really means...they're probably thinking of something far more complex than soft tissue grafts. Although I do like the dummying down with terms like gummy-tuck.....
Click to expand...

The Chemotherapy term has been around for many, many years, since literally chemo = chemical and therapy = treatment and chlorhexidine literally is chemical treatment. Is it pushing the vocabulary limits a bit, sure, but it is used as a catch phrase in many a national perio-therapy lecture.

Periodontal Plastic Surgery - well see my post way above in this thread. It would be like me calling myself as a general dentist something to the extent of an "oral bio-mechanical structural engineer":confused::rolleyes: My real guess is that in some certain markets, having plastic surgery is practically a requisite social status symbol and a few periodontists in such areas have realized the marketing advantages of this. Who knows, in those offices, maybe a gingival graft is explained to the patient as a gum implant (and I'm referring to the saline/silicone implants, not the titanium ones!);):D
 
It reminds me of how oral surgeons try to say they aren't dentists as well. "I'm a surgeon!" Talk about trying to be something you're not... :smuggrin:
 
vize said:
It reminds me of how oral surgeons try to say they aren't dentists as well. "I'm a surgeon!" Talk about trying to be something you're not... :smuggrin:
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There's one oral surgeon in my area who doesn't call himself an oral surgeon 1st. But then again he's DMD/MD and board certified in plastic surgery and his practice is about 70% plastic surgery/30% oral surgery so I give him a pass;)

He's actually fun to refer younger patients to for either wisdom teeth or extraction of primary teeth. More than a few times when I see the younger pateint back 6 months later will their teeth be extracted and their mother's will have also seen him for either some liposuction or a tummy tuck or a face lift. In those situations that's when the mom really thanks me for referring their child to his office!:D
 
vize said:
It reminds me of how oral surgeons try to say they aren't dentists as well. "I'm a surgeon!" Talk about trying to be something you're not... :smuggrin:
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Of course oral surgeons are considered surgeons. If periodontists can call them selves surgeons with no general anesthesia training, ACLS training, general surgery/medicine, SICU, trauma etc training, I think the title would be completely appropriate for oral surgeons. The oral surgeons who deny their dental roots are just ignorant. Luckily, very few OMFS guys do this.
 
Yellowman said:
Of course oral surgeons are considered surgeons. If periodontists can call them selves surgeons with no general anesthesia training, ACLS training, general surgery/medicine, SICU, trauma etc training, I think the title would be completely appropriate for oral surgeons. The oral surgeons who deny their dental roots are just ignorant. Luckily, very few OMFS guys do this.
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Periodontists call themselves plastic surgeons because of their extensive training that is identical to traditional Plastic Surgeons. I hear they have to go through 5 years of general surgery then 2 years of plastic surgery or 3 years of general surgery then 3 years of plastic surgery. Of course they also get to call themselves plastic surgeons. :smuggrin:

Speaking of the SICU, it's absolutely the ****tiest month that I have endured. just 2 more days until no more SICU rotation for life! :thumbup:
 
I'll say it again for the short bus kids:

A simple google search for "periodontal plastic surgeon" nets 10 results, 3 of which are threads on this forum. You guys make up 30% of all references to the phrase. :laugh:
 
ip said:
I'll say it again for the short bus kids:

A simple google search for "periodontal plastic surgeon" nets 10 results, 3 of which are threads on this forum. You guys make up 30% of all references to the phrase. :laugh:
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Google search for "periodontal plastic surgeon" nets 204,000 hits. I think the "10 results" your seeing are the first 10 that show up. Granted teh first 2 hits are this thread here, but I guarantee you there are more than 10 periodontists using this term online.
 
Yellowman said:
Google search for "periodontal plastic surgeon" nets 204,000 hits. I think the "10 results" your seeing are the first 10 that show up. Granted teh first 2 hits are this thread here, but I guarantee you there are more than 10 periodontists using this term online.
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Try doing a search for "periodontal plastic surgery" on Google (including the quotation marks). It will return 17.900 exact matches to the search term. There is even an "American Periodontal Plastic Surgery Meeting"!:D I wonder what they use for microsurgery suturing in PPS. 35-0 resorbable?
 
Yellowman said:
Google search for "periodontal plastic surgeon" nets 204,000 hits. I think the "10 results" your seeing are the first 10 that show up. Granted teh first 2 hits are this thread here, but I guarantee you there are more than 10 periodontists using this term online.
Click to expand...

Actually there are now 12 results, 4 of which are from this forum. You probably didn't use quotations which gave you results with any of the 3 words.
 
"Periodontal plastic surgery" (with quotes) yields 28,500 results with quotes on Google. "Periodontal plastic surgeon" (with quotes) yields 489 results including (at the top of the results) some of what is being said on SDN.;)

This obviously does not include this post.
 
cel083 said:
"Periodontal plastic surgery" (with quotes) yields 28,500 results with quotes on Google. "Periodontal plastic surgeon" (with quotes) yields 489 results including (at the top of the results) some of what is being said on SDN.;)

This obviously does not include this post.
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Buddy I dunno what google you're using but here's what mine says:

"Results 1 - 11 of 11 for "Periodontal plastic surgeon". (0.15 seconds)". Whatever your internet is, mine wants some of it.

Who cares? If this is what gets you going, you've got easy lives. Here's something that actually means something:

Results 1 - 30 of about 13,500 for "mercury free dentist".
 
ip said:
Buddy I dunno what google you're using but here's what mine says:

"Results 1 - 11 of 11 for "Periodontal plastic surgeon". (0.15 seconds)". Whatever your internet is, mine wants some of it.

Who cares? If this is what gets you going, you've got easy lives. Here's something that actually means something:

Results 1 - 30 of about 13,500 for "mercury free dentist".
Click to expand...

"Periodontal plastic surgeon" - Results 1 - 10 of about 474 for "Periodontal plastic surgeon". (0.32 seconds)

I think you done gots the ghetto verzion of gooogle, homie.
 
Meatwad said:
I'm almost certain this guy goes around telling people in bars "yeah, I'm a plastic surgeon."
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-A minimum of gum tissue is necessary to avoid vulnerability to chronic redness, sometimes bleeding and progressive periodontal disease," says Dr. Baradaran, a dentist in Beverly Hills who specializes in periodontics.

-Some of the work is done under a microscope using very high magnification. Incisions are less invasive, more precise, often smaller, and sometimes not even visible to the patient.

-Sometimes gum diseases such as gingivitis or periodontitis can cause gum loss or recession, which may lead to the need for gum tissue surgery, replacement or augmentation.

-Having a "gummy smile" is one of the more unaesthetic blemishes to one's smile, which can easily be corrected with proper planning by a surgeon with an artistic eye. A surgical method is used to lift and shape the gums to recreate balance between the amount of tooth, gum tissue and lip tissue displayed during a smile.

-The plastic surgeon develops rejuvenation by balancing and harmonizing the facial structures and features of the entire face. The periodontal plastic surgeon does the same with the elements of the smile.

-These treatments are not meant only for movie stars but also the person standing in the elevator next to you.


I had to pull some of the best quotes from that article. :laugh:
 
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