American Board of Physician Specialties

[zeloc]

Wondering if anyone here has taken the IM boards by the American Board of Physician Specialties? It's a competing organization with ABMS and has its own exam and board certification process.

I am all for competition given the fiasco 8-10 yrs ago and the ensuing MOC process, but would like to know the quality of the exam, whether it is well-written and I will also be looking for psychometric data if available.

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[DrMetal]

Wondering if anyone here has taken the IM boards by the American Board of Physician Specialties? It's a competing organization with ABMS and has its own exam and board certification process.

I am all for competition given the fiasco 8-10 yrs ago and the ensuing MOC process, but would like to know the quality of the exam, whether it is well-written and I will also be looking for psychometric data if available.

The only competition I knew of with the ABMS is the NBPS (loosely accepted in some places). Bu this is good to hear, the more competition the better.

Of course, what we could do collectively is just get rid of board certification altogether, after we recognize that 'Board Certification' is just a sexy label that means you can take and pass a 300-Q multiple guess trivia exam, and it has no bearing on your competency as a physician.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Fake board - not worth your time.


I mean their requirements for EM "board certification" is 10 case reports - literally any intern could be certified by their standards.

 

[zeloc]

Fake board - not worth your time.


I mean their requirements for EM "board certification" is 10 case reports - literally any intern could be certified by their standards.

I think you're referring to the NBPAS, not the ABPS. They require residency and have a written and oral exam, among other requirements:
Emergency Medicine Board Certification | American Board of Physician Specialties

 

[Lexdiamondz]

I think you're referring to the NBPAS, not the ABPS. They require residency and have a written and oral exam, among other requirements:
Emergency Medicine Board Certification | American Board of Physician Specialties

They don't require a residency in EM.

Anyway, to my knowledge most institutions in desirable areas won't credential you as "Board Certified" with an ABPS certificate.

 

[zeloc]

They don't require a residency in EM.

Anyway, to my knowledge most institutions in desirable areas won't credential you as "Board Certified" with an ABPS certificate.

Yes, it does. From the link I posted above, one of the (several) requirements include:

"Completing an ACGME- or AOA-accredited residency, or a residency recognized by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (RCPSC), in emergency medicine"

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Yes, it does. From the link I posted above, one of the (several) requirements include:

"Completing an ACGME- or AOA-accredited residency, or a residency recognized by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (RCPSC), in emergency medicine"

You misunderstand.

ABPS will “board certify” someone despite not having done an EM residency with pretty meagre requirements

 

[zeloc]

All 3 of them are scams. Everyone is aware of the fiasco with the ABMS. They can create whatever requirements and fees they want and they have a captive audience.
ABPS, for IM at least, has a yearly $895 fee. Internal Medicine Application & Exam Fee Schedule
NBPAS is just pointless - you pay them $200 and they re-certify you. At least they should offer an exam, since the point of these ceritifications is the maintenance and advancement of practical knowledge.

What a certifying organization should be doing is looking at relationships between real outcomes and ppl who are certified, and relationships with the exam and those factors, and modify the exam/recertification process so that it does correlate highly with important outcomes.

 

[DrMetal]

All 3 of them are scams. Everyone is aware of the fiasco with the ABMS. They can create whatever requirements and fees they want and they have a captive audience.
ABPS, for IM at least, has a yearly $895 fee. Internal Medicine Application & Exam Fee Schedule
NBPAS is just pointless - you pay them $200 and they re-certify you. At least they should offer an exam, since the point of these ceritifications is the maintenance and advancement of practical knowledge.

Which is why we should get rid of the notion of board certification altogether. It's a meaningless credential that just sounds good, wow you're 'board certified', as if we're supposed to take pride in that. No. Take pride in finishing medical school, finishing residency, fellowship, then practicing as a good doctor. That's enough!

 

[Raryn]

Anything other than the ABMS boards is just a scam for people to be able to tell their employers they're board certified when they're not.

 

[CCM-MD]

Anything other than the ABMS boards is just a scam for people to be able to tell their employers they're board certified when they're not.

Some would say ABMS is the biggest scam.

 

[DrMetal]

Some would say ABMS is the biggest scam.

Of course it is. We've just been indoctrinated into believing it's something important. There was a time in this country when board certification was strictly optional (a nice academic achievement, so be it), but you didn't have to have it, and you could be judged solely on the merits of your practice. Now that it's become the baseline, I'll bet you money that in due time we'll come up with another credential, to help distinguish some from others--call it super duper elite BC. First it'll be optional, then required. Unless we put a stop to it.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Of course it is. We've just been indoctrinated into believing it's something important. There was a time in this country when board certification was strictly optional (a nice academic achievement, so be it), but you didn't have to have it, and you could be judged solely on the merits of your practice. Now that it's become the baseline, I'll bet you money that in due time we'll come up with another credential, to help distinguish some from others--call it super duper elite BC. First it'll be optional, then required. Unless we put a stop to it.

Doubt it. Board certification has been nearly universal for 40+ years. Or rather I don't see any major changes for the rest of my career. The huge backlash against some of the newer things in the last 6-8 years did wonders.

What I don't much care for are all the additional fellowships popping up. Neither peds nor y'all need a hospital medicine fellowship, for example.

 

[CCM-MD]

Doubt it. Board certification has been nearly universal for 40+ years. Or rather I don't see any major changes for the rest of my career. The huge backlash against some of the newer things in the last 6-8 years did wonders.

What I don't much care for are all the additional fellowships popping up. Neither peds nor y'all need a hospital medicine fellowship, for example.

Hospital medicine fellowship is crazy. Crazy enough that it might actually become a reality one day.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Hospital medicine fellowship is crazy. Crazy enough that it might actually become a reality one day.

I'd love to say no internist is stupid enough to do one of those, but you are the specialty where your Chief year is often just a 4th year of residency so...

 

[DrSnips]

Hospital medicine fellowship is crazy. Crazy enough that it might actually become a reality one day.

To be fair, hospital medicine fellowships are mostly geared around improving teaching and/or research skills. Doing one can make you more competitive for the best academic jobs (the same way an MPH, PhD or other academic resume item might improve your chances).

 

[DrMetal]

What I don't much care for are all the additional fellowships popping up. Neither peds nor y'all need a hospital medicine fellowship, for example.

Agree. Fellowship in Addiction, in Obesity in Women's Health...makes you wonder what the hell we're doing/teaching in a general IM/FM residency.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Agree. Fellowship in Addiction, in Obesity in Women's Health...makes you wonder what the hell we're doing/teaching in a general IM/FM residency.

Meh, none of those bother me since I either can already treat those conditions or they actually do provide value. That said, my impression is always been that IM residency was always fairly week in women's health procedures which is understandable given how little outpatient time many of your residency programs have. so having a training option where you learn to do a lot of the women's health procedures that those of us in family medicine do train to do doesn't seem unreasonable.

 

[DrMetal]

Meh, none of those bother me since I either can already treat those conditions or they actually do provide value. That said, my impression is always been that IM residency was always fairly week in women's health procedures which is understandable given how little outpatient time many of your residency programs have. so having a training option where you learn to do a lot of the women's health procedures that those of us in family medicine do train to do doesn't seem unreasonable.

What procedures? Colposcopy, DNCs? We don't need a fellowship in that, it's call a Gyn residency. The argument I heard for a WH fellowship was that we were not paying enough attention to our female patients and missing a lot of post-MP heart disease and other pathology. My retort to that would be: fix our IM/FM residencies, to teach and emphasize that. Don't need a fellowship for that. That's a deficiency in our initial training that should be corrected.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

What procedures? Colposcopy, DNCs? We don't need a fellowship in that, it's call a Gyn residency. The argument I heard for a WH fellowship was that we were not paying enough attention to our female patients and missing a lot of post-MP heart disease and other pathology. My retort to that would be: fix our IM/FM residencies, to teach and emphasize that. Don't need a fellowship for that. That's a deficiency in our initial training that should be corrected.

If that's all your WH fellowships are, then yeah that's something that could easily be fixed with an extra few lectures during residency and attendings who are on the ball in the area.

You don't need a GYN residency to do colpos, IUDs, EMBs, office based stuff like that. I would hope that the primary care tract IM residencies would actually have that as an option for interested residents. Same with stuff like HRT, some basic prenatal care that I get the impression lots of IM residents don't get a whole lot of exposure to.