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AMGA Physician Compensation 2017

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Hospital Impact—The intersection of physician compensation and value-based payment | FierceHealthcare
 

psychMDhopefully

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DO anesthesiologist ever worry about autonomy? Unlike a lot of specialties Anesthesiologist can't really do private practice, they are contracted by the hospital to provide a service to the surgeons patient. Does not having the " my patients are coming to see ME" situation ever cause stress? What if a hospital decides they want 90% CRNAs?
 

teacher2md

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DO anesthesiologist ever worry about autonomy? Unlike a lot of specialties Anesthesiologist can't really do private practice, they are contracted by the hospital to provide a service to the surgeons patient. Does not having the " my patients are coming to see ME" situation ever cause stress? What if a hospital decides they want 90% CRNAs?

Huh, I've never thought about that. I don't think we've ever discussed those issues here.
 
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leaverus

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Wow that's depressing

$400000+/yr is depressing?? i'd still take that and an anesthesiologist's lifestyle over that of any of the specialties above it in the list - except for Derm which i never would have matched in anyway. And i didnt realize GI was compensated so well but i'd rather not have my hands near people's asses all day either.
 
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nimbus

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$400000+/yr is depressing?? i'd still take that and an anesthesiologist's lifestyle over that of any of the specialties above it in the list - except for Derm which i never would have matched in anyway. And i didnt realize GI was compensated so well but i'd rather not have my hands near people's asses all day either.

Huh? Lifestyle?? Every one of those specialties at the top of the list have a better lifestyle than anesthesia. None of them sleep in the hospital.
 
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leaverus

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Huh? Lifestyle?? Every one of those specialties at the top of the list have a better lifestyle than anesthesia. None of them sleep in the hospital.

i'm OK with sleeping in the hospital a few times a month when i get the entire next day off. and no rounding on pts and no office hours. but it's cool, i know everyone has their own limit. as for the money, an extra $150k on top of $400k+ won't determine my happiness in life.
 
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0kazak1

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$400000+/yr is depressing?? i'd still take that and an anesthesiologist's lifestyle over that of any of the specialties above it in the list - except for Derm which i never would have matched in anyway. And i didnt realize GI was compensated so well but i'd rather not have my hands near people's asses all day either.

Well, I think GI would be a crappy job.
 
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nimbus

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i'm OK with sleeping in the hospital a few times a month when i get the entire next day off. and no rounding on pts and no office hours. but it's cool, i know everyone has their own limit. as for the money, an extra $150k on top of $400k+ won't determine my happiness in life.

I know orthopods and GI docs who take every Friday off or Wednesday afternoon off or whatever they want. And they don't need to sleep in the hospital the previous night in order to do it. As a general rule, we have less control over our own schedule than most surgical specialists.
 
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soorg

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The worst here is OB-GYN. Horrendous calls, up all night, stuck in the OR, the office, the clinic, can still get sued 18 years later, all for $342K??!!!! They deserve at least $600K, average. No way in hell a derm deserves more. Truly f'd up.
 
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aneftp

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The worst here is OB-GYN. Horrendous calls, up all night, stuck in the OR, the office, the clinic, can still get sued 18 years later, all for $342K??!!!! They deserve at least $600K, average. No way in hell a derm deserves more. Truly f'd up.

It was even worst for my sister.

She was making $120k x 4 years from
2001-2005 as ob/gyn. Freaking 72 hour ob call on weeekdns. Brutal She went top 5 med school. Top 5 ob gyn and was chief resident. Partners there made around 250-300k at the time.

The ob part isn just brutal.

She left clinical medicine at age of 35. Cause once she became a partner. The malpractice tail would have been 200-250k.

And yes. U can be sued easy as ob gyn. Stats say ob get sued at least 3 times in their lifetime. and jurors are stupid. They don't feel like they are hurting the doctor. They just feel sorry for the "victim" child and it's just the insurance money being paid out and no one is getting harm. Just the way juries think in many ob malpractice cases.
 
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jwizle

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is this compensation including benefits ? or just plain salary?
 
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Noyac

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The worst here is OB-GYN. Horrendous calls, up all night, stuck in the OR, the office, the clinic, can still get sued 18 years later, all for $342K??!!!! They deserve at least $600K, average. No way in hell a derm deserves more. Truly f'd up.
Absolutely the truth. Derm is scam. Cream after cream. An occasional biopsy. Never acute life or death ****. I equate Derm with the plastics guys that don't do anything but boobs and face lifts and think they are some sort of god's gift. Give me an F'in break.
Rip a baby out of someone in a split second saving a life time of extended care and medical costs enough to ruin a family or even a small nation. Then run into the next room to catch a perfectly delivered healthy baby to a couple that has been trying to get pregnant for 10yrs. You just changed the lives of many people in a matter of minutes. And for that you get half the income of someone that pops zits and enhances someone's view of themselves (while posiibly an important feat still nothing to compare).
 
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DrYoda

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I know orthopods and GI docs who take every Friday off or Wednesday afternoon off or whatever they want. And they don't need to sleep in the hospital the previous night in order to do it. As a general rule, we have less control over our own schedule than most surgical specialists.

probably true. At my mid-sized community shop we generally get no GI, ENT, optho or urology coverage on weekends. we typically have ortho.
 

anbuitachi

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$400000+/yr is depressing?? i'd still take that and an anesthesiologist's lifestyle over that of any of the specialties above it in the list - except for Derm which i never would have matched in anyway. And i didnt realize GI was compensated so well but i'd rather not have my hands near people's asses all day either.

Um what lifestyle. Anesthesiology has one of the worst lifestyles out of all specialties. You work a ton, and constantly sleep during odd hours (day shifts, 24 calls where you are up at night and sleep next day, late calls etc), you dont know when you are getting out daily. You can't reject your patients. And how many of those have to deal with stress of people actively dying on you?
 
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Noyac

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[QUOTE="anbuitachi, post: 19230451, member: 22993024 calls where you are up at night and sleep next day[/QUOTE]
Sounds like my college years. And my high school weekends.
Anesthesiology was the perfect fit for me.
 
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Shimmy8

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Um what lifestyle. Anesthesiology has one of the worst lifestyles out of all specialties. You work a ton, and constantly sleep during odd hours (day shifts, 24 calls where you are up at night and sleep next day, late calls etc), you dont know when you are getting out daily. You can't reject your patients. And how many of those have to deal with stress of people actively dying on you?

Aren't you like a new CA-1? Please spare me your lifestyle takes that you have not experienced.

Granted I'm a new grad, but there were plenty of jobs with every type of lifestyle available for anesthesia when I applied. Full time, part time, no call, shift work, 24hr call, trauma, no trauma, major academic, Surg center, etc etc etc.

Of course compensation and location will vary, but why wouldn't they?
 

anbuitachi

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Aren't you like a new CA-1? Please spare me your lifestyle takes that you have not experienced.

Granted I'm a new grad, but there were plenty of jobs with every type of lifestyle available for anesthesia when I applied. Full time, part time, no call, shift work, 24hr call, trauma, no trauma, major academic, Surg center, etc etc etc.

Of course compensation and location will vary, but why wouldn't they?

No. And where? Alaska?
Over 50 percent of the graduating class here went on to fellowship this year. Which is similar to rest of country I believe
 

AdmiralChz

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Um what lifestyle. Anesthesiology has one of the worst lifestyles out of all specialties. You work a ton, and constantly sleep during odd hours (day shifts, 24 calls where you are up at night and sleep next day, late calls etc), you dont know when you are getting out daily. You can't reject your patients. And how many of those have to deal with stress of people actively dying on you?

Are we in the same specialty? Sounds like you need a new job (but aren't you a resident....).

Most surgeons, especially inpatient-based, would roll over laughing at this discussion. You'd be hard pressed to find one who thought our lifestyle is worse. The surgery-center ortho and plastics are exceptions, ortho trauma certainly not.
 
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deleted171991

My first thought was exactly this. I tend to associate salary as being separate from total benefits, but does compensation include everything?

I'm not sure I can go for the median pediatrician salary at $240,000
Why not? If you like kids, it's definitely more enjoyable than anesthesiology. Even in anesthesiology, peds people are usually happier than most.

Don't chase the money. First of all, the extra income will be taxed at 33% plus state tax plus 2.4% Medicare etc. (~40%). So the difference in net income is not as big as you'd think, especially on an hourly basis. Also, as a pediatrician, you really "own" your patients; kids are the most loyal patients, and even tend to take their own kids to their former pediatrician.

Do what you love and what fits your personality (disorder).
 
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bashwell

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Why not? If you like kids, it's definitely more enjoyable than anesthesiology. Even in anesthesiology, peds people are usually happier than most.

Don't chase the money. First of all, the extra income will be taxed at 33% plus state tax plus 2.4% Medicare etc. (~40%). So the difference in net income is not as big as you'd think, especially on an hourly basis. Also, as a pediatrician, you really "own" your patients; kids are the most loyal patients, and even tend to take their own kids to their former pediatrician.

Do what you love and what fits your personality (disorder).
Anecdotal: I know a general pediatrician who is very happy and has a great lifestyle (~35-40 hours a week, no nights, minimal weekends, minimal call, minimal rounding on inpatients/NICU) pulling in ~$300-$350k a year (more if he wants to work more) and living in a beautiful place near a big city (but not on either coast). He tells me this is not uncommon at all in his region since he has other colleagues that do just as well. He also thinks that pediatrician salaries might be so "low" because there are so many part-time pediatricians in the specialty. Of course, you have to like kids, like clinic, like well child checks, etc, which most people attracted to anesthesia probably don't.
 
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Noyac

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Absolutely the truth. Derm is scam. Cream after cream. An occasional biopsy. Never acute life or death ****. I equate Derm with the plastics guys that don't do anything but boobs and face lifts and think they are some sort of god's gift. Give me an F'in break.
Rip a baby out of someone in a split second saving a life time of extended care and medical costs enough to ruin a family or even a small nation. Then run into the next room to catch a perfectly delivered healthy baby to a couple that has been trying to get pregnant for 10yrs. You just changed the lives of many people in a matter of minutes. And for that you get half the income of someone that pops zits and enhances someone's view of themselves (while posiibly an important feat still nothing to compare).
Sorry, I don't mean to criticize Derm or Plastics for what they do. Just if they equate income to importance. While their jobs may carry some importance to some out there, they don't carry nearly as much as most medical specialties IMO.
 

nimbus

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He also thinks that pediatrician salaries might be so "low" because there are so many part-time pediatricians in the specialty. Of course, you have to like kids, like clinic, like well child checks, etc, which most people attracted to anesthesia probably don't.

This is true. Almost every female pediatrician I know work what I would consider to be a part time schedule.
 
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turnupthegas

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They may be taking random days off in the middle of the week. But ask them how many vacation days they have. On the whole, many do not have a nearly as much as Anesthesiologists do. 6-12 weeks in private practice is unheard of in surgical subspecialities unless you're a big boss with a bunch of minion surgeons below you. Some of my new friends who finished in a surgical speciality have 2 weeks. One new ortho trauma attending had none the first year.


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nimbus

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They may be taking random days off in the middle of the week. But ask them how many vacation days they have. On the whole, many do not have a nearly as much as Anesthesiologists do. 6-12 weeks in private practice is unheard of in surgical subspecialities unless you're a big boss with a bunch of minion surgeons below you. Some of my new friends who finished in a surgical speciality have 2 weeks. One new ortho trauma attending had none the first year.


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We have 3 Ortho trauma guys who work very hard but also take a decent amount of vacation. But we also have 15 other orthopedists on staff. Only a few younger ones even take ER call. The rest only take call for their own practice which means they are NEVER in the hospital after hours.
 
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deleted171991

That's why I never like these annual salary comparisons. I'd much rather have salary per hour
My thoughts exactly. Same goes for comparisons with how much physicians make in other countries. Everybody forgets to mention that they generally work less than 40-45 hours/week.
 
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Noyac

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They may be taking random days off in the middle of the week. But ask them how many vacation days they have. On the whole, many do not have a nearly as much as Anesthesiologists do. 6-12 weeks in private practice is unheard of in surgical subspecialities unless you're a big boss with a bunch of minion surgeons below you. Some of my new friends who finished in a surgical speciality have 2 weeks. One new ortho trauma attending had none the first year.


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Every surgeon I know takes one day off a week. Usually a Monday or Friday. With 52 weeks in a year, can you add up the amount of time off they get?
 
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TexasDoc2388

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Why not? If you like kids, it's definitely more enjoyable than anesthesiology. Even in anesthesiology, peds people are usually happier than most.

Don't chase the money. First of all, the extra income will be taxed at 33% plus state tax plus 2.4% Medicare etc. (~40%). So the difference in net income is not as big as you'd think, especially on an hourly basis. Also, as a pediatrician, you really "own" your patients; kids are the most loyal patients, and even tend to take their own kids to their former pediatrician.

Do what you love and what fits your personality (disorder).
What is a state tax? :)
 
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Uisa

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many here seem to be very disgruntled at taking in house call/no control over schedule, etc. but in all honesty, I think the workload does even out at the end. For instance, while we are in house for call, we don't have clinic to tend to, field calls from patients at random times, round, write HPIs, have follow ups, stand for hours upon hours, and deal with social work or insurance approvals. Additionally, while we may not have specific control over what cases go when, we do have the choice to work less/find different job.

If you are looking for something in medicine where you get paid in both money and time, there is no such thing. All of us have to be present to make a living; this is not private equity investing.

In the grand scheme of it all, I agree that certain things in the field need changing, but if we are complaining about working 'too hard' for $400k... we'll be alright.
 
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pgg

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What is a state tax? :)
Most of the states with no or low income taxes get you in other ways ... high sales and property taxes typically. My current state has low income tax but an annual personal property tax on cars.

There are some discounted lunches out there but no free ones. :)
 

BLADEMDA

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Most of the states with no or low income taxes get you in other ways ... high sales and property taxes typically. My current state has low income tax but an annual personal property tax on cars.

There are some discounted lunches out there but no free ones. :)

At my income level I prefer ZERO state taxes and I'll gladly pay the other taxes which are higher like property and sales tax.
 
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Paul R McHugh

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This is true. Almost every female pediatrician I know work what I would consider to be a part time schedule.

Could this be why the average female physician earns a lower salary? Me: YES. It isn't because of inequality, it is because they work part-time at a higher frequency.
 

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At my income level I prefer ZERO state taxes and I'll gladly pay the other taxes which are higher like property and sales tax.

Totally agree. Federal income tax is high enough, living with high state income tax sucks even more.
 
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doctalaughs

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Sorry, I don't mean to criticize Derm or Plastics for what they do. Just if they equate income to importance. While their jobs may carry some importance to some out there, they don't carry nearly as much as most medical specialties IMO.

Hey - no offense taken- I've heard worse bashing about my specialty and the comments don't bother me. I also have no problem admitting our pay is good compared to lifestyle sacrifices / life-death emergency situations.

I do think you are exaggerating based on stereotypes that people like to repeat though.

Only about 5-10% of dermatology practiced in the USA is cosmetic (zero in my practice but only a very few rare dermatologists are over 50%).

The rest you may consider "unimportant" but on an average day where I see 40 patients I treat/"cure" - 5-10 BCC/SCC and perhaps an average of 1 melanoma every 2 weeks which I think requires skill/work.

Guess you gotta learn that salary has nothing to do with sacrifice/suffering. To say that dermatologists and plastic surgeons don't add value however isn't correct. I have no problem admitting that I think doctors that are up all hours of the night getting sued "deserve" all the money in the world but I also have no regrets sleeping in my bed and helping non-actively-dying patients as best I can in daylight hours. Wouldn't quite call that a "scam."



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Noyac

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Hey - no offense taken- I've heard worse bashing about my specialty and the comments don't bother me. I also have no problem admitting our pay is good compared to lifestyle sacrifices / life-death emergency situations.

I do think you are exaggerating based on stereotypes that people like to repeat though.

Only about 5-10% of dermatology practiced in the USA is cosmetic (zero in my practice but only a very few rare dermatologists are over 50%).

The rest you may consider "unimportant" but on an average day where I see 40 patients I treat/"cure" - 5-10 BCC/SCC and perhaps an average of 1 melanoma every 2 weeks which I think requires skill/work.

Guess you gotta learn that salary has nothing to do with sacrifice/suffering. To say that dermatologists and plastic surgeons don't add value however isn't correct. I have no problem admitting that I think doctors that are up all hours of the night getting sued "deserve" all the money in the world but I also have no regrets sleeping in my bed and helping non-actively-dying patients as best I can in daylight hours. Wouldn't quite call that a "scam."



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I'm sorry, but are you trying to make my point or make a a counter point?

And if you think I believe one word of that BS that you do zero cosmetic care then you are f'in crazy.
 

calvnandhobbs68

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Because we live in a super specialized world, not the world 100 years ago where the only specialties were basically general "medicine" and "surgery"?

You obviously don't get what I'm saying. Take a look at the second chart.
It's divided into "Medical Speciality", "Surgical Specialty", "Primary Care", "Radiology/Anesthesiology/Pathology" and "Other Healthcare Providers".
 

bashwell

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You obviously don't get what I'm saying. Take a look at the second chart.
It's divided into "Medical Speciality", "Surgical Specialty", "Primary Care", "Radiology/Anesthesiology/Pathology" and "Other Healthcare Providers".
You obviously don't understand cheekiness. If you want a serious answer, your answer lies in the actual 2017 Medical Group Compensation and Productivity Survey from AMGA, which you'd need access to.
 

doctalaughs

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I'm sorry, but are you trying to make my point or make a a counter point?

And if you think I believe one word of that BS that you do zero cosmetic care then you are f'in crazy.

Believe what you like- it's your forum.

Most dermatologists do 5-10% cosmetics. Many would do more if possible, because it's easy cash, but that population is limited.

I do zero- same as most in academics/va/many large systems etc.

Saying that all dermatologists do is fluff cosmetics and pimples is similar to saying that all anesthesiologists do is sit in the lounge all day drinking coffee while the CRNAs do the important work, which I certainly don't believe despite the sheep sayin it.


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Uisa

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I feel like the latter half of the posts could benefit from some humor. I'm gonna bring out my man...

1106514-cool_story_bro_super.jpg
 

Scotty_G

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Some of us do take home call. You can still make good money in a hospital that allows home-call :0
 
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