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Noyac

Noyac

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I have not spent as much time on SDN lately. Until today I haven't really had much interest for the past week except to post a random thought here or there. I wasn't going to post this just b/c it really wasn't necessary or anyone's business but my view has changed slightly.

Last week a very good friend, fellow anesthesiologist and newly married husband who I found I had a lot in common with took his own life in a very disturbing way. I never saw this coming. It shocked me to the core. It makes absolutely zero sense to me. He was a great anesthesiologist, great athlete, handsome, funny, and appeared to be in a good place every time I was with him.

So why am I posting this dribble? Because in this business we have unbelievable access to amazing drugs. While others may contemplate ending it all, we can actually do it very easily at the drop of a hat. We are in very stressful situations from time to time. Situations that 99% of the population can never imagine. We go home and are expected to be just like everyone else out there that goes to work puts in their hours, comes home and act like its just another day at work. And for the most part this is exactly what it is like. Well I don't know how to make this any easier but we need to be aware of our partners and friends. Don't take any changes lightly when actions, personality, dress, hygene and whatever else you can throw out there, begins to change. Things may seem trivial at the time but they may be signs that only become apparent when it is all too late.

Sorry about the sober depressing thread but many of you residents are just entering this field and while it is a great and exciting field it does have its serious consequences. You need to be vigilant. And most importantly, when you are having difficulty with anything ask for help. Talk to your friends, your partners, attendings, anyone. Don't think you can be the one that can use some of our many drugs to get you through a tough time and then stop when you are ready because all too many before you have failed miserably. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you can experiment with them either and keep it under control. If you have any thoughts of even trying any of them (even the gases w/c my friend used) please talk to someone and get help. If you don't want to talk to a friend face to face, talk to me. PM me anytime. Please don't try to handle this alone. YOU WILL LOSE.

My friend was an amazing young man with the whole F*cking world at his feet and he threw it all away because he was to big to ask for help. And in his wake he left a lot of people terribly hurt and feeling completely empty and useless. He did not accidentally OD as best we can tell. He took his own life. And he was just married in October.
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Man. Sorry to hear that Noy. I appreciate the post.
 
That sux, I feel for you. :( And one more thing to people out there, be nice to others, don't be an a..hole just cause you are higher up.
 
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thank you for your thoughtful post noy, it certainly puts many things into perspective...
btw, are you in durango ? greetings from farmington!
fasto
 
Noy, with all due respect to the deceased, do you perhaps have a link to a local news outlet so we can read about this?

-copro

P.S. Ah... nevermind... I just found it. I won't post, as it gives the person's name, unless you give your blessing.
 
coprolalia said:
Noy, with all due respect to the deceased, do you perhaps have a link to a local news outlet so we can read about this?

-copro

P.S. Ah... nevermind... I just found it. I won't post, as it gives the person's name, unless you give your blessing.
Click to expand...

Its public knowledge so i don't see any problem posting it here if you want.
 
My condolences Noy. One of my good friends just had a recent sudden loss. I feel for you man
 
Sorry to hear that Noy. Hope you are feeling better. The family must be rendered speechless. They often are the last ones to see a problem. Sad.

You always hear about this kind of stuff. Like you, we will all likely see it at some point in our career.
 
that's horrible. suicide is such a difficult thing for the survivors to rebound from...

On a related note, how common is this problem - not necessarily the suicide part, but the stealing/using drugs from work problem? At an interview today with a medium-sized program, one of the residents mentioned they lose a resident about once every other year or so to drug addiction...
 
My heart goes out to your friend's family and I am soryr for your loss. We need to treat drugs like the loaded guns they are. They can defend your patient against a threat but take your life if you point them in the wrong direction.
 
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Ferdie said:
On a related note, how common is this problem - not necessarily the suicide part, but the stealing/using drugs from work problem?
Click to expand...

Well, unfortunately it is very common. It is so easy to do (stealing/skimming drugs). There is not one system out there that can effectively deter it. There is always so way to get around it. And its not just the narc's. My friend used Sevo, imagine that. I have seen propofol use. How many of you have to quantitate your propofol use? My guess is none of you.

I appreciate all the sympathy here, really I do. But, I feel a little like a fake or a sympathy monger receiving all your sympathies. I was a friend of Tim's but I am in no way going through anything like his family is experiencing. I feel somewhat useless since I was a friend that didn't see this problem but I was not nearly as close as his wife or family was to him and therefore, I can't imagine what they are going through.

So, in order to possibly prevent 1 person from doing the same thing I propose we go through some of the signs of drug use among our peers. In hopes of preventing and possibly saving/helping one person.

1). volunteering for more cases/call
2). not wanting or accepting breaks
3). Giving you breaks out of the ordinary.
4). Giving narcs every time they give you a break
5). Wearing long sleeves
6). Of coarse, moody behavior, family troubles, etc.

Gotta go, I will post more later.
 
toughlife said:
My heart goes out to your friend's family and I am soryr for your loss. We need to treat drugs like the loaded guns they are. They can defend your patient against a threat but take your life if you point them in the wrong direction.
Click to expand...


For those that don't know, almost every state has a Physician Health Program. In my state it falls under the state medical board. Many of these programs were formed in order to help physicians who were using/abusing alchohol and drugs. These programs allow for the physicians to receive treatment instead of losing their license and livelihood. As a part of their treatment physicians in the programs are monitored for substances of abuse. After rehab and they are allowed to keep their license and practice. If you observe someone you feel is impaired, if you observe someone who exhibits the the above signs, ignoring it will be easy for you. But, reporting them to your state physician health program may save their life and their career.
 
Ferdie said:
that's horrible. suicide is such a difficult thing for the survivors to rebound from...

On a related note, how common is this problem - not necessarily the suicide part, but the stealing/using drugs from work problem? At an interview today with a medium-sized program, one of the residents mentioned they lose a resident about once every other year or so to drug addiction...
Click to expand...

i started residency in 01 .. i have known personally at least half a dozen who have either died from drugs or took their life.. One dude hung himself in the call room.. for the next guy to find him.
 
Noyac said:
Well, unfortunately it is very common. It is so easy to do (stealing/skimming drugs). There is not one system out there that can effectively deter it. There is always so way to get around it. And its not just the narc's. My friend used Sevo, imagine that. I have seen propofol use. How many of you have to quantitate your propofol use? My guess is none of you.

I appreciate all the sympathy here, really I do. But, I feel a little like a fake or a sympathy monger receiving all your sympathies. I was a friend of Tim's but I am in no way going through anything like his family is experiencing. I feel somewhat useless since I was a friend that didn't see this problem but I was not nearly as close as his wife or family was to him and therefore, I can't imagine what they are going through.

So, in order to possibly prevent 1 person from doing the same thing I propose we go through some of the signs of drug use among our peers. In hopes of preventing and possibly saving/helping one person.

1). volunteering for more cases/call
2). not wanting or accepting breaks
3). Giving you breaks out of the ordinary.
4). Giving narcs every time they give you a break
5). Wearing long sleeves
6). Of coarse, moody behavior, family troubles, etc.

Gotta go, I will post more later.
Click to expand...


moodiness is a big one..

sounding like a shock jock.

sweating excessively.. itching excessively.. disappears frequently..

anyway this is depressing.. close this thread please..

lets talk about giants dallas
 
Why close the thread Johan? Stiffen up that vertebral column or take one of those little "the world is beautiful" pills. Regards, -----Zip
 
Thank you, Noy, for the post.

I know that the thread is depressing and uncomfortable, but closing it because it's an uncomfortable subject does little for addressing this important topic.

dc
 
Sevo in small doses is euphoric like nitrous and most IV induction agents. How it's done: In the morning, when checking out the machine and testing to see if the insp. and exp. valves are working, ya inhale and exhale in the circuit with your mask on and see if the bag inflates and deflates. Of course, ya "forget" to turn off the nitrous and/or the Sevo prior to doing this. I don't recommend ya do this ,however. Regards, ----Zip
 
Noyac said:
1). volunteering for more cases/call
2). not wanting or accepting breaks
3). Giving you breaks out of the ordinary.
4). Giving narcs every time they give you a break
5). Wearing long sleeves
6). Of coarse, moody behavior, family troubles, etc.
Click to expand...

Its common enough that they put this on the boards almost every year.
 
One of the events at the annual chief residents' council associated with the SAMBA meeting was a discussion on this very subject and what those in attendance had experienced with colleagues experiencing addiction or depression.

In addition to what has already been discussed, it is of critical importance that you do not delay in informing your attendings or colleagues of your suspicions and concerns. Even if your suspicions turn out only to show that the person in question is under a lot of stress, you may have helped prevent that person from going another step in the wrong direction.

Anonymous and confidential processes exist to allow you to voice your concerns without creating enmity or animosity with the person in question and again if the suspicions turn out to be false, it at least provides the person in question with information that their behavior and actions are raising concerns among others.

In my life, this is now the sixth person in the physician profession that I have heard of directly or through acquaintances that has committed suicide. Six beautiful lives with countless experiences, stories, and future stories that can never be told now. It is a path that we have all read about, but too often fail to recognize until it is too late or are too unwilling to believe that a star colleague/resident/attending could be THAT person spiralling toward self-destruction.

It is more difficult if that person takes great effort to conceal their situation, so it is imperative that we all maintain an open mind and give our colleagues an opportunity to voice their issues to us in whatever manner they choose and that we likewise voice our willingness to support them at all costs.
 
THx for taking the time to post.

We all have survivor guilt in these situations and blame ourselves for not seeing through the facade.

We must be more attentive to our peers.

That said, Noy, you cant crucify yourself for this. Your friend skilfully hid this from you.



All the best, dre'
 
There are reasons why our specialty has a high incidence of depression, suicide and drug abuse, a few of these reasons are:
1- Lack of recognition by others: Patients, colleagues and even society in general.
2- Loneliness: Anesthesiology is one of the loneliest specialties in medicine.
3- Extreme stress.
4- Feelings of guilt and inadequacy every time there is suboptimal outcome.
5- Going through malpractice litigation or fear of litigation.
If you add some personal and family problems to the above factors combined with easy access to drugs it would appear surprising that the majority of anesthesiologists actually remain mentally balanced.
 
a program i recently interviewed at also just lost a resident, believed to be a suicide...months away from finishing, already had a great job lined up. this is much more prevalent and troubling than you would think. (please don't ask what program -- i don't think it is right publicly or privately to tell...). it can happen to any of us....
two years ago a friend of mine, a veterinarian, killed himself by overdose. his practice was thriving, engaged to someone he was very happy with (going to be the second wife), two great kids. i wonder if he didn't have such easy access to the drugs if he really would have gone through with it. awful thing is, a bunch of us were supposed to go to dinner with him the night he did it and everyone ended up being tired, having to study, work, etc. i still feel very guilty about that, and probably always will. probably the number one thing in my life i regret. none of us knew how bad off he was, i guess. we found out later he had been taking anti-depressants, too proud to let anyone know i guess, and had recently stopped taking them because of the side effects. he hid the depression and the anti-depressants from everyone, even his fiancee. i cannot second noyacs plea strong enough -- ask for help, let someone in
 
That was a great initial post, Noyac. It puts everything in perspective. Many of us have had to deal with coworkers with addiction (and horrible consequences) and it is good to keep discussion open about this ongoing problem.

In a program in my hometown, a resident basically lost a promising career because of inability to stop propofol use. Still alive at least.
 
I don't know if this needs to be a "sticky" but we do need some sort of abuse thread in the sticky format.
 
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