Anesthesiologists better adapt says "top Harvard economist" or else

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Correct thats the future.

People above pretending because there are high salaries for easier jobs right now are not seeing that "future" the CEO/economists/etc see.

There's nothing really revolutionary here that us "Chicken Littles" on the site haven't been saying for a while. I live in the big northeast markets and the future is now here. Hospital consolidation, declining physician salary for a larger workload, and midlevel encroachment is already the reality here. It's not going to change. Many of the physician advocacy groups like the ASA or AMA are too anemic to do anything about it. There's a lot of money to be made in healthcare still and the big boys like the guys on Wall Street are the ones in control.

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Correct thats the future.

People above pretending because there are high salaries for easier jobs right now are not seeing that "future" the CEO/economists/etc see.
The funny thing is the CEO are getting replaced left and right themselves.
 
There's nothing really revolutionary here that us "Chicken Littles" on the site haven't been saying for a while. I live in the big northeast markets and the future is now here. Hospital consolidation, declining physician salary for a larger workload, and midlevel encroachment is already the reality here. It's not going to change. Many of physician advocacy groups like the ASA or AMA are too anemic to do anything about it. There's a lot of money to be made in healthcare still and the big boys like the guys on Wall Street are the ones in control.

Yup. We aren't dumb.

There are a couple of ways to approach this

1. Try to make as much money as u can the next 5 or so years (avoiding AMCs as much as possible ). Working in mid west or less populated places

2. Work for AMC if you don't have a choice and just ride it out

3. Take a academic job where you are shielded a lot

4. Take a Va job taking less pay already.

Guess which jobs are the tightest for anesthesiologists in the above 4 scenarios?
 
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The funny thing is the CEO are getting replaced left and right themselves.

Thats true but there's a few issues with this:

1) CEOs will make MILLIONs for a few years of work, so they aren't really hurting for work
2) CEOs will get another job at another hospital. There are literally THOUSANDs to chose from that rotate around CEOs
3) CEOs can go into consulting after making "contacts" where they can charge other CEOs big fees to do "efficiency" studies
 
Thats true but there's a few issues with this:

1) CEOs will make MILLIONs for a few years of work, so they aren't really hurting for work
2) CEOs will get another job at another hospital. There are literally THOUSANDs to chose from that rotate around CEOs
3) CEOs can go into consulting after making "contacts" where they can charge other CEOs big fees to do "efficiency" studies

CEO of hospitals. The vast majority of them do not make millions. They do get let go. It's very unstable. I know. Cause CEO of one of the Big hospitals has child in same pre school class as my 4 year old. CEO faces a lot of stress meeting performance metrics. Look at CEOs at hospitals. They don't last long.

This isn't CEO of public company lie United Healthcare who makes millions in stock options

CEO of hospital in mid Atlantic my sister knows well had house foreclosed due to job lost.

It's rough out there.
 
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CEO of hospitals. The vast majority of them do not make millions. They do get let go. It's very unstable. I know. Cause CEO of one of the Big hospitals has child in same pre school class as my 4 year old. CEO faces a lot of stress meeting performance metrics. Look at CEOs at hospitals. They don't last long.

This isn't CEO of public company lie United Healthcare who makes millions in stock options

CEO of hospital in mid Atlantic my sister knows well had house foreclosed due to job lost.

It's rough out there.

Cool story bro but let's add some stats to this:

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/10/why-are-hospital-ceos-paid-so-well/280604/

http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20150808/magazine/308089988

http://www.beckershospitalreview.co...ion-statistics-for-healthcare-executives.html

Sure CEO's turnover but usually they get another CEO or senior VP during their "transition" or turnover at another hospital

http://www.healthcarebusinesstech.com/hospital-ceos-fired/
 
CEO only average between 400-600k as u clearly linked.

And turnover is high.

The vast majority don't make millions.

So cool story bro to you. You just confirmed what I stated.
 
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So cool story bro to you. You just confirmed what I stated.

This girl (DrCommonSense) is getting annoying and tiresome - time to execute the "ignore" function.
 
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This girl (DrCommonSense) is getting annoying and tiresome - time to execute the "ignore" function.

When are you sending me your retirement money after you were convinced Hillary was going to win and you would "send it" to me "since I didn't know what I was talking about"?

Still waiting brah.

You mad?
 
CEO only average between 400-600k as u clearly linked.

And turnover is high.

The vast majority don't make millions.

So cool story bro to you. You just confirmed what I stated.

CEO was averaging 600K in just CASH. That doesn't count the CEO's other COMPENSATION package.

Furthermore, this is lowered by putting in very small rural hospitals that pay CEOs less.

Once you take out the small rural hospital CEO, their numbers go into the millions on average.
 
CEO only average between 400-600k as u clearly linked.

And turnover is high.

The vast majority don't make millions.

So cool story bro to you. You just confirmed what I stated.



"3. The average base salary for an independent health system CEO in 2014 was $752,800, and the average base salary for an independent hospital CEO was $425,200, according to Integrated Healthcare Strategies' "2014 National Healthcare Leadership Compensation Survey" report.*"

Note it says average BASE salary for the SMALLER INDEPENDENT hospitals was 425,200. Base Salary is the SMALLER portion of compensation. Add in their bonus structures and they usually are in the high 900s to millions.

Also, once you remove RURAL smaller hospital CEOs, the TOTAL compensation packages are in the millions PER YEAR.

in Chicago, the average compensation was approximately 5 million/year TOTAL.
 
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CEO was averaging 600K in just CASH. That doesn't count the CEO's other COMPENSATION package.

Furthermore, this is lowered by putting in very small rural hospitals that pay CEOs less.

Once you take out the small rural hospital CEO, their numbers go into the millions on average.

Dude, you are totally out of your freakin' gourd, if you think "just go get an MBA and be a CEO (but not a pathetic loser CEO at a small rural hospital)" is a reasonable twist to a doctor's career path.

It doesn't matter what hospital CEOs are earning, even if you could get there, which you can't, by the time you counted the opportunity cost to get the MBA and the time to claw your way into that CEO job (10+ years?), the lost anesthesiologist income will be a couple million at least.
 
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Dude, you are totally out of your freakin' gourd, if you think "just go get an MBA and be a CEO (but not a pathetic loser CEO at a small rural hospital)" is a reasonable twist to a doctor's career path.

It doesn't matter what hospital CEOs are earning, even if you could get there, which you can't, by the time you counted the opportunity cost to get the MBA and the time to claw your way into that CEO job (10+ years?), the lost anesthesiologist income will be a couple million at least.

Im speaking about a CURRENT person pursing an MBA, not some old fart that is way past his prime and is going out to pasture soon. Problems with your analysis includes:

1) Decreasing Anesthesia salaries due to CRNA competition and Medicare rates will likely decrease the opportunity cost of foregoing Anesthesia
2) I never said just "quit and try to become a CEO". Thats all nonsense. I was speaking about someone that can go into consulting for a larger consulting company such as McKinsey/Bain/BCG whereby they start at 200K or so per year with increases annually post MBA. Sure, there would be a slight decrease for the first year but the ceiling is far higher.
3) After moving up in consulting, they can make a lateral move into a SVP position at an insurance company, higher level in hospital admin or become a partner at a consulting firm, making far more than an anesthesiologist in the future.

So, no I don't recommend "quitting" whereby one foregoes income for many years.

Your OC cost analysis is far removed from the reality of my argument.
 
Dude, you are totally out of your freakin' gourd, if you think "just go get an MBA and be a CEO (but not a pathetic loser CEO at a small rural hospital)" is a reasonable twist to a doctor's career path.

It doesn't matter what hospital CEOs are earning, even if you could get there, which you can't, by the time you counted the opportunity cost to get the MBA and the time to claw your way into that CEO job (10+ years?), the lost anesthesiologist income will be a couple million at least.
Not to mention, who wants to do that job. wear a suit all day and talk in bull **** jargon all day and make up acronyms for all sh** that means Zilch.
 
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Im speaking about a CURRENT person pursing an MBA, not some old fart that is way past his prime and is going out to pasture soon. Problems with your analysis includes:

1) Decreasing Anesthesia salaries due to CRNA competition and Medicare rates will likely decrease the opportunity cost of foregoing Anesthesia
2) I never said just "quit and try to become a CEO". Thats all nonsense. I was speaking about someone that can go into consulting for a larger consulting company such as McKinsey/Bain/BCG whereby they start at 200K or so per year with increases annually post MBA. Sure, there would be a slight decrease for the first year but the ceiling is far higher.
3) After moving up in consulting, they can make a lateral move into a SVP position at an insurance company, higher level in hospital admin or become a partner at a consulting firm, making far more than an anesthesiologist in the future.

So, no I don't recommend "quitting" whereby one foregoes income for many years.

Your OC cost analysis is far removed from the reality of my argument.
WHy would you go into medicine and become a physician if you wanted to become an MBA. These are two totally different paths in life. Require vastly different skillsets and motivations. BUsiness people are concrete thinkers. Concrete thinking will hinder you in medicine.
 
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Not to mention, who wants to do that job. wear a suit all day and talk in bull **** jargon all day and make up acronyms for all sh** that means Zilch.

Dunno, Obama and Hillary/Bill Clinton did that for years and are worth MILLIONs.

Bill/Hillary are worth more than many anesthesiologists combined.
 
WHy would you go into medicine and become a physician if you wanted to become an MBA. These are two totally different paths in life. Require vastly different skillsets and motivations. BUsiness people are concrete thinkers. Concrete thinking will hinder you in medicine.

Maybe because they realize after starting its not worth practicing at lower salaries especially if they are worth 8M or so already. Sometimes its not worth practicing medicine if the risk of lawsuit is greater than the NPV valuation for 30 years of work considering a discount factor of 7% (very conservative historically considering SP500 returns with dividends reinvested).

Considering the physician contract is changing dramatically over the next 10 years with the society, a younger physician might not have realized he/she signed up for a profession where nurses are being given "equivalence" despite never going to medical school either.
 
Maybe because they realize after starting its not worth practicing at lower salaries especially if they are worth 8M or so already. Sometimes its not worth practicing medicine if the risk of lawsuit is greater than the NPV valuation for 30 years of work considering a discount factor of 7% (very conservative historically considering SP500 returns with dividends reinvested).

Considering the physician contract is changing dramatically over the next 10 years with the society, a younger physician might not have realized he/she signed up for a profession where nurses are being given "equivalence" despite never going to medical school either.


We have posters here that have been insanely pessimistic about the future of medicine and the future of anesthesia for more than 10 years so please realize I'm not just blowing sunshine when I say this, but your posts on this forum are truly bizarre.
 
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We have posters here that have been insanely pessimistic about the future of medicine and the future of anesthesia for more than 10 years so please realize I'm not just blowing sunshine when I say this, but your posts on this forum are truly bizarre.
You may be right, except that you quoted one of his best posts, which I agree with 100%. ;)

Employed physicians (the large majority nowadays) should strongly consider retiring at a much earlier age (whenever they reach their target retirement wealth, especially for a developing foreign country), or moving to a state with total malpractice caps, or working in the VA system. Otherwise, they are at risk for retiring much poorer than at an earlier age (it takes just ONE serious mistake under all that production pressure, and we are working more and more for less and less).

Also, when we let APRNs be regulated by the Boards of Nursing we let them erode our moat as physicians. We now have at least two separate pathways to practice medicine, one easy and cheap, the other hard and expensive. Our decades as a profession are numbered, especially on the non-surgical side. It's simple economics and history. In the end, we are all just very highly educated techs, who know how to use medications and specific technology; the lower the barrier to entry, the more people like us, the less we make, the worse we'll do. It's like the restaurant business: no moat, no profits. And now we don't even own our businesses anymore.
 
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You may be right, except that you quoted one of his best posts, which I agree with 100%. ;)

Employed physicians (the large majority nowadays) should strongly consider retiring at a much earlier age, or moving to a state with total malpractice caps. Otherwise, they are at risk for retiring much poorer than at an earlier age (it takes just ONE serious mistake under all that production pressure).

Smart man on that one.

Its simple math for any of the people that know how businesses evaluate moving into a segment. They do a simple NPV analysis.

If the NPV is positive after a specified period time, they decide to undergo the business opportunity (most want to be NPV positive by 8 years).

Even at 3M or so with a 7% discount rate, Anesthesiologists aren't NPV positive (considering post tax money) for >25 years AT CURRENT MEDIAN WAGES.

The assumption that salaries will improve considering CRNA collaborative pressures which is getting more militant by the day, Medicare differentials in salary (33% of private), AMCs moving into the Anesthesia space due to consultants/PE boys wanting to improve profits and CEOs of hospitals wanting to get rid of all anesthesia subsidies with strong negotiations doesn't portend well for increasing salaries in the future.

How low do salaries go before its too risky to do anesthesiology? 250K seems too low at 3M net worth unless you are only taking care of ASA 1 or 2 patients with a nice schedule. Unfortunately, 250K with call will probably be the norm in the next 5 to 10 years with increased production pressures coupled with "collaboration" with CRNAs on the lower hanging fruit. Even at 300K/year, that would be too high risk at that level of exposed assets.

I rather do a lower paying specialty that is low risk at that point such Palliative care for 210-220K/year or so with zero risk.

P.S. You liberals who live in NY, CA and IL will be enjoying a MARGINAL TAX RATE over 50-55%+ when you consider a fed tax, state tax, local tax, medicare, SS, etc. at 250K cut off (especially since all the public workers pensions in those states are COLLAPSING and will require HIGHER local tax rates in the coming years). So the difference between 250K to 350K post tax is only about 45K in those states.
 
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Im speaking about a CURRENT person pursing an MBA, not some old fart that is way past his prime and is going out to pasture soon. Problems with your analysis includes:

1) Decreasing Anesthesia salaries due to CRNA competition and Medicare rates will likely decrease the opportunity cost of foregoing Anesthesia
2) I never said just "quit and try to become a CEO". Thats all nonsense. I was speaking about someone that can go into consulting for a larger consulting company such as McKinsey/Bain/BCG whereby they start at 200K or so per year with increases annually post MBA. Sure, there would be a slight decrease for the first year but the ceiling is far higher.
3) After moving up in consulting, they can make a lateral move into a SVP position at an insurance company, higher level in hospital admin or become a partner at a consulting firm, making far more than an anesthesiologist in the future.

So, no I don't recommend "quitting" whereby one foregoes income for many years.

Your OC cost analysis is far removed from the reality of my argument.

Finally! It took too long to get here for an SDN thread about money. SDN advice: From the start of life, you should be awesome, get an awesome job consulting, make awesome money . . . everything is awesome (if you get out of medicine)! Oh, and maybe throw in some i-banking on the side. Thanks, I knew you had all the answers.
 
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We have posters here that have been insanely pessimistic about the future of medicine and the future of anesthesia for more than 10 years so please realize I'm not just blowing sunshine when I say this, but your posts on this forum are truly bizarre.

FYI, the deterioration in the Anesthesiology job market continues each and every year. I'm seeing lower salaries and fairly high call frequency on gaswork. Over the past 2 years the average job on gaswork is considerably worse in terms of money vs lifestyle than at any point since the mid 1990s.

You are fortunate to be insulated from the harsh economic reality of Anesthesiology in 2017. But, for the vast majority of new graduates the picture isn't a pretty one.

I used to wonder who would fill all those AMC positions paying in the mid 300s; I now see multiple applicants for positions that AMCs couldn't fill just 2 years ago.
 
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Smart man on that one.

Its simple math for any of the people that know how businesses evaluate moving into a segment. They do a simple NPV analysis.

If the NPV is positive after a specified period time, they decide to undergo the business opportunity (most want to be NPV positive by 8 years).

Even at 3M or so with a 7% discount rate, Anesthesiologists aren't NPV positive (considering post tax money) for >25 years AT CURRENT MEDIAN WAGES.

The assumption that salaries will improve considering CRNA collaborative pressures which is getting more militant by the day, Medicare differentials in salary (33% of private), AMCs moving into the Anesthesia space due to consultants/PE boys wanting to improve profits and CEOs of hospitals wanting to get rid of all anesthesia subsidies with strong negotiations doesn't portend well for increasing salaries in the future.

How low do salaries go before its too risky to do anesthesiology? 250K seems too low at 3M net worth unless you are only taking care of ASA 1 or 2 patients with a nice schedule. Unfortunately, 250K with call will probably be the norm in the next 5 to 10 years with increased production pressures coupled with "collaboration" with CRNAs on the lower hanging fruit. Even at 300K/year, that would be too high risk at that level of exposed assets.

I rather do a lower paying specialty that is low risk at that point such Palliative care for 210-220K/year or so with zero risk.

P.S. You liberals who live in NY, CA and IL will be enjoying a MARGINAL TAX RATE over 50-55%+ when you consider a fed tax, state tax, local tax, medicare, SS, etc. at 250K cut off (especially since all the public workers pensions in those states are COLLAPSING and will require HIGHER local tax rates in the coming years). So the difference between 250K to 350K post tax is only about 45K in those states.

Sure people will still work for 250k with calls (40 hour work week).

People ain't stupid.

When you adjust crna only practices with calls. They are already making that much (and more) and barely working in rural areas.

If you thinking working 55-60 hours a week like the AMCs have MDs paying around 350-400k. 250k 40 hour week (call hours included) is basically the same.

250k 60 hour weeks. Crna's won't even do that.
 
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Sure people will still work for 250k with calls (40 hour work week).

People ain't stupid.

When you adjust crna only practices with calls. They are already making that much (and more) and barely working in rural areas.

If you thinking working 55-60 hours a week like the AMCs have MDs paying around 350-400k. 250k 40 hour week (call hours included) is basically the same.

250k 60 hour weeks. Crna's won't even do that.

CRNAs will do it due to the huge proliferation of those providers being literally PUMPED OUT in droves by CRNA schools.
 
FYI, the deterioration in the Anesthesiology job market continues each and every year. I'm seeing lower salaries and fairly high call frequency on gaswork. Over the past 2 years the average job on gaswork is considerably worse in terms of money vs lifestyle than at any point since the mid 1990s.

You are fortunate to be insulated from the harsh economic reality of Anesthesiology in 2017. But, for the vast majority of new graduates the picture isn't a pretty one.

I used to wonder who would fill all those AMC positions paying in the mid 300s; I now see multiple applicants for positions that AMCs couldn't fill just 2 years ago.

Correct analysis and will continue to deteriorate as CRNAs gain independence. Flooding the market with "independent" CNRAs will dramatically increase the supply of anesthesia service personnel with the same level of demand.

Don't have to be a PHD in economics to understand those implications.
 
CRNAs will do it due to the huge proliferation of those providers being literally PUMPED OUT in droves by CRNA schools.
We will see who is right in 5 years.

The $500k jobs are long gone for 90% of MDs simply because the groups have sold out or not taking any more partners but most of us predicted that 5 years ago.

I'm more in line with 8-12 hours shift work/EM mentality. Because 24 hour call simply is not feasible q4 calls.
 
FYI, the deterioration in the Anesthesiology job market continues each and every year. I'm seeing lower salaries and fairly high call frequency on gaswork. Over the past 2 years the average job on gaswork is considerably worse in terms of money vs lifestyle than at any point since the mid 1990s.

Sort of, but the thing is gaswork wasn't around in the mid 90s. And the good jobs don't advertise on gaswork. So if you use that as your frame of reference you are merely scouring the bottom tier of jobs available and drawing conclusions from it.
 
We will see who is right in 5 years.

The $500k jobs are long gone for 90% of MDs simply because the groups have sold out or not taking any more partners but most of us predicted that 5 years ago.

I'm more in line with 8-12 hours shift work/EM mentality. Because 24 hour call simply is not feasible q4 calls.

Yup shift work like the EM is the future. Dont get how medicine went to crap. America is definitely declining.
 
Yup shift work like the EM is the future. Dont get how medicine went to crap. America is definitely declining.

In the sense of decline, medicine is no different than any other industry. The corporate billionaires are making a lot of money off of healthcare right now, while the people who are actually putting in the work are getting squeezed. It's not just doctors, either. We can talk about how good nurses have, but they are also expected to do more work for less money. Nurse to patient ratios are increasing, they are given more latitude and responsibility (which some actually don't want), and overtime is forced without being compensated as much as it used to be. We are not the only victims of the corporatization of healthcare.
 
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In the sense of decline, medicine is no different than any other industry. The corporate billionaires are making a lot of money off of healthcare right now, while the people who are actually putting in the work are getting squeezed. It's not just doctors, either. We can talk about how good nurses have, but they are also expected to do more work for less money. Nurse to patient ratios are increasing, they are given more latitude and responsibility (which some actually don't want), and overtime is forced without being compensated as much as it used to be. We are not the only victims of the corporatization of healthcare.

That's why they all want to be nurse practitioners instead of floor nurses
 
In the sense of decline, medicine is no different than any other industry. The corporate billionaires are making a lot of money off of healthcare right now, while the people who are actually putting in the work are getting squeezed. It's not just doctors, either. We can talk about how good nurses have, but they are also expected to do more work for less money. Nurse to patient ratios are increasing, they are given more latitude and responsibility (which some actually don't want), and overtime is forced without being compensated as much as it used to be. We are not the only victims of the corporatization of healthcare.

I agree.

But half the clowns in the Anesthesiology forum are in denial about this reality and basically crap on the MBA consultants/PE guys who are owning things these days.
 
Does any one have updated numbers on acquisitions this year by AMC/PE guys? My guess it is down from last year. Also, how many contracts have they lost? My guess it is up. Sometimes I feel like posters on this forum are paid trolls for AMCs.
 
In the sense of decline, medicine is no different than any other industry. The corporate billionaires are making a lot of money off of healthcare right now, while the people who are actually putting in the work are getting squeezed. It's not just doctors, either. We can talk about how good nurses have, but they are also expected to do more work for less money. Nurse to patient ratios are increasing, they are given more latitude and responsibility (which some actually don't want), and overtime is forced without being compensated as much as it used to be. We are not the only victims of the corporatization of healthcare.

to me, though, it isn't "corporate billionaires" that we have to worry about it medicine, it's the endless army of bureaucracy in each hospital. It's the little fish armed with clipboards draining 100K here and 150K there from the system, not the small handful taking 50M that I worry about. 30-40 years ago a 500 bed hospital probably didn't have more than a handful of administrative people. Now they are swimming in them. And they all get paid for not taking care of patients and generating no revenue.
 
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But half the clowns in the Anesthesiology forum are in denial about this reality and basically crap on the MBA consultants/PE guys who are owning things these days.
To be precise, I'm just crapping on your ridiculous idea that a typical anesthesiologist has a realistic "out" to greener pastures in MBA-land.

You didn't have a shot at being an i-banker, either. ;)
 
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I agree.

But half the clowns in the Anesthesiology forum are in denial about this reality and basically crap on the MBA consultants/PE guys who are owning things these days.

We aren't in denial about increasing pressure on income.

There is a reason the partners have been selling out for 1-3 million each in exchange for 350k income from AMCs for 3-5 years to stay on. They are taking the cash.

What I think MBAs really haven't count and can't count on is the crna shift mentality and the need to be paid overtime after 8 hours or 40 hour week. Most won't work 55-60 hours a week q4 calls for 250k. It's a zero sum game for the smart mba cause those Crna's are gonna to cost them $300-350k which is basically what the MD is making anyways. That's why we say there really isn't any true cost savings
 
to me, though, it isn't "corporate billionaires" that we have to worry about it medicine, it's the endless army of bureaucracy in each hospital. It's the little fish armed with clipboards draining 100K here and 150K there from the system, not the small handful taking 50M that I worry about. 30-40 years ago a 500 bed hospital probably didn't have more than a handful of administrative people. Now they are swimming in them. And they all get paid for not taking care of patients and generating no revenue.

Those corporate billionaires are employing those clipboard warriors for a reason. The first reason is because there is an "arms race" of sorts between payers looking for reasons not to pay and hospitals trying to maximize billing revenue. The clipboard army is part of that. They also serve another purpose of subjugating the people who would be most resistant to the "corporatization" that is going on...doctors. When you have clipboard nurses scolding you for missing a day of shaving or wearing a scrub hat instead of a bouffant, you are too distracted by the little things to see that they are increasing your workload without increasing your pay.
 
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We aren't in denial about increasing pressure on income.

There is a reason the partners have been selling out for 1-3 million each in exchange for 350k income from AMCs for 3-5 years to stay on. They are taking the cash.

What I think MBAs really haven't count and can't count on is the crna shift mentality and the need to be paid overtime after 8 hours or 40 hour week. Most won't work 55-60 hours a week q4 calls for 250k. It's a zero sum game for the smart mba cause those Crna's are gonna to cost them $300-350k which is basically what the MD is making anyways. That's why we say there really isn't any true cost savings

When the market gets truly flooded with anesthesiologists and CRNAs, expectations among docs and crnas will change accordingly. People are taking jobs today for packages and requirements they would have considered ridiculous only a few years ago. No reason that trend can't continue as long as we keep pumping out graduates in both professions.




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When the market gets truly flooded with anesthesiologists and CRNAs, expectations among docs and crnas will change accordingly. People are taking jobs today for packages and requirements they would have considered ridiculous only a few years ago. No reason that trend can't continue as long as we keep pumping out graduates in both professions.




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Market has been completely flooded in the major markets already. (Atlanta, Bay Area, LA area , DC up to Boston).

Like I said. If and when income reach that low. People aren't gonna to be taking q4 24 hour calls. It becomes shift works mentality

ICU nursing will sound a lot better for the nurses most making $100k plus 3 days a week with shift differential and zero student loans.
 
It's a race to the bottom. Plain and simple. I don't know how else to put it.
 
It's a race to the bottom. Plain and simple. I don't know how else to put it.

The AMCs have been finding a middle ground salary between 350k ish plus occurrence malpractice (20k) plus paid vacation. Who know how much someone is working for this type of money.

They tried to take the salary into the mid to upper 200s a couple of years ago.

And if Crna's make 160k 40 hour weeks.

Taking Crna's income up to 225k and MD salary down to 250k ish really doesn't accomplish much. Cause it's costing them the same.
 
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If the jobs are bad, let new grads, CRNAs whoever want to work and desperately want the latest gadget and overvalued house, slog. For the middle aged and old ones its time to concentrate on the health. You cannot affors to become sick or let a chronic illness debilitate u.

No wonder a lot of older doctors are retiring prematurely.
 
Market has been completely flooded in the major markets already. (Atlanta, Bay Area, LA area , DC up to Boston).

Like I said. If and when income reach that low. People aren't gonna to be taking q4 24 hour calls. It becomes shift works mentality

ICU nursing will sound a lot better for the nurses most making $100k plus 3 days a week with shift differential and zero student loans.

Those are desirable cities. Why do anesthesiologists have the fetish of LA? Anywhere you want to go its 1-1.5 hrs in grinding traffic. Low or no pay, depends on your luck. Shack overvalued for more than a million.
Time to think. Why not go to Austin, sanantonio, saltlake city, Denver, columbus, seattle, portland. If all these places are low balling anesthesiologists, pack your bags and take a sabatical in sydney or prague.

Life is too short to keep making money for others
 
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Those are desirable cities. Why do anesthesiologists have the fetish of LA? Anywhere you want to go its 1-1.5 hrs in grinding traffic. Low or no pay, depends on your luck. Shack overvalued for more than a million.
I would never live there.

But the weather is nice and the food is good, so others want to.
 
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