Anesthesiology residency as a DO

[plsfoldthx]

Is it harder to acquire a anesthesia residency as a DO as opposed to MD?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[randomusername]

DOs match gas in allo and osteo programs quite often.

 

[Black Adder]

 

[tideleonheart]

Is it harder to acquire a anesthesia residency as a DO as opposed to MD?

Very hard to say. DOs have DO only residencies, and also can match into MD residencies. Every year there are quite a few who match MD. And obviously all the DO ones fill up. To say which is harder is too tough to call. Once you're in med school, get good grades and board scores, and be kind and humble. You will get whatever residency you want whether you're a DO or MD.

 

[plsfoldthx]

Very hard to say. DOs have DO only residencies, and also can match into MD residencies. Every year there are quite a few who match MD. And obviously all the DO ones fill up. To say which is harder is too tough to call. Once you're in med school, get good grades and board scores, and be kind and humble. You will get whatever residency you want whether you're a DO or MD.

Thanks man. Also, does it matter a big deal post-residency whether you do an MD or DO residency in anesthesiology?

 

[tideleonheart]

Thanks man. Also, does it matter a big deal post-residency whether you do an MD or DO residency in anesthesiology?

No. You might hear one or two anecdotal stories with a he-said-she-said around here, but in nearly all cases, being a board certified anesthesiologist is all a hospital cares about.

That question has been asked for just about every specialty. If you look on the anesthesia forums and do a quick search, you should be able to find a few threads on it.

edit: hah apparently I was wrong! Nevermind the above then.

 

[Consigliere]

Thanks man. Also, does it matter a big deal post-residency whether you do an MD or DO residency in anesthesiology?

As an attending anesthesiologist with over 10 years experience I wholeheartedly disagree with the above poster. If you can, do an allopathic residency; it DOES matter. The DO residencies are too small and will not give you the experience that an MD residency will. I am a DO anesthesiologist who did an MD residency and ALWAYS tell other DO's to do the same. No one will care if you are a DO if you did an MD residency; they will if you did a DO residency - trust me on that one.

 

[TJ87]

Johns Hopkins Anesthesiology Program is inclined to take many DOs. If they do then everyone should.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Johns Hopkins Anesthesiology Program is inclined to take many DOs. If they do then everyone should.

With killer board scores. Other than that, they don't consider you. I asked. They hold MDs and DOs to totally different standards.

 

[JaggerPlate]

As an attending anesthesiologist with over 10 years experience I wholeheartedly disagree with the above poster. If you can, do an allopathic residency; it DOES matter. The DO residencies are too small and will not give you the experience that an MD residency will. I am a DO anesthesiologist who did an MD residency and ALWAYS tell other DO's to do the same. No one will care if you are a DO if you did an MD residency; they will if you did a DO residency - trust me on that one.

Shouldn't it be "Consigliere, DO, PhDLMFAO" ???

 

[PharmaTope]

With killer board scores. Other than that, they don't consider you. I asked. They hold MDs and DOs to totally different standards.

what difference in standards do they hold them to? i would like to hear more about this please.

 

[Boiler up]

Shouldn't it be "Consigliere, DO, PhDLMFAO" ???

that was my first thought too...

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

what difference in standards do they hold them to? i would like to hear more about this please.

COMLEX 700s or USMLE 240s.

Yeah, all their MD residents are getting 240s, when the average USMLE is in the 220s to maybe low 230s for gas ...

 

[Consigliere]

that was my first thought too...

It's a joke.....long story.

 

[JaggerPlate]

It's a joke.....long story.

I was totally kidding and actually thought it may have been some sort of inside joke

 

[lawmed]

Jaggerplate. How do I go to the Osteo forum and look up the match lists for 2010????

I want to put my fears to rest

 

[TeamZissou]

Jaggerplate. How do I go to the Osteo forum and look up the match lists for 2010????

I want to put my fears to rest

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=709495

 

[dozitgetchahi]

The NRMP Results and Data for 2009 Main Residency Match reports that of all US Seniors (allopathic) who were active applicants to ANY residency 4.2% matched in to Anesthesiology (allopathic). That is of 14,566 applicants who were US allopathic seniors, 612 matched in Anesthesiology (allopathic). This does not account for other US allopathic graduates applying after their senior year, or IMGs, citizen or non-citizen

Of the osteopathic seniors or past graduates who active applicants in NRMP for ANY allopathic residency, 3.8% matched into Anesthesiology (allopathic). That is of 1,408 applicants from osteopathic schools, 53 matched in Anesthesiology (allopathic). This does not take into account any osteopathic seniors or grads applying or matching into DO Anesthesiology, though there must be some whom of course did.

This seems like such a goofy way of working with the data. While I understand that the way the match occurs makes any other sort of comparison difficult, I don't understand why they don't try to establish which applicants even ranked gas residencies in the first place and then calculate an acceptance rate from there.

As it stands, the percentages seem mighty skewed. I'm sure there were plenty of applicants from the MD and/or DO sides who didn't even apply for a gas residency in the first place - yet every single applicant gets lumped together in figures like these as if they all were vying for gas. It's crazy.

 

[okayplayer]

So in sum, you have nearly the same chance matching into an Anesthesiology (allopathic) with a DO as you do an MD.

This is patently false. As someone who has actually gone through this process, it is obviously far easier for a US MD student to match into allopathic anesthesiology than a DO. A much higher percentage of DO applicants applying for anesthesiology end up scrambling than US MDs. Period. A US MD with a >215 (and no red flags/personality disorders) is basically guaranteed to match if he/she applies to enough programs, but a DO with the same numbers is certainly not, as the 3 people in my class who did not match could tell you.

In terms of competitiveness it is quite clearly: US MD>DO>FMG. This difference really comes into play with the least competitive applicants of each group. A DO with <215 (or even 220 really) is in pretty bad shape, but US MD's with 200-205 routinely match with no problems to anesthesia.

That's not to say it's really that tough to match as a DO with good board scores. It's definitely doable if you apply liberally and as long as you aren't shooting for one of the 8-10 top programs who basically never take DOs. For example, I applied to 60 programs and got 46 interviews, and I don't really have crazy high board scores (but well above avg).

Also, don't forget a low Step I can be made up for with a better USMLE Step II.

 

[okayplayer]

Look, I'm not going to get into this with you. I have already matched and don't care to waste any more time on a point I have already made above. What I stated is not even remotely controversial or disputed widely...it is harder for a DO with the same board scores (or COMLEX only) to match to an allopathic anesthesiology than a US MD with the same scores. This especially comes into play, as stated above when you look at applicants with <215-220 scores.

Look at the graphs on pages 23 and 24 of Charting the Outcomes. The probability of matching as an Independent Applicant (DO/FMG) is less than half of a US MD at basically every board score <230. It is difficult to determine how to interpret this because it groups DOs and FMGs and clearly it is easier for DOs to match than FMGs. US MD>DO>FMG, as I stated above.

I've been through the process and spent lots of time on this. There is not a plethora of hard data comparing the groups, and this data unfortunately groups DOs and FMGs. But as someone who has been through it (and successfully matched at a top 15-20 allopathic anesthesia program) I probably have more insight than someone who hasn't gone through the process. Just trying to pass it on.

 

[okayplayer]

Thank you for pointing out your experience nor am I trying to get into anything with anybody. I have no vested interest as I am involved in the sociological research aspects of this; I am not a medical student nor a premed on this site. Nor am I physician, I just help get them educated as I like to say.

My point that is are many misconceptions within medical school acceptance and residency acceptance. Just a comment on what perceptions can do. To most of the premeds and medical students on SDN that its obviously more difficult to get into MD school than DO school. Only one issue with that obvious statement: its false. In 2009, The AAMC reported there were 42,269 applicants of which 19,332 were accepted of which 18,390 matriculated which is 2.19 applicants per acceptee or 2.29 applicants per matriculated students. AACOM had 12,617 applicants with 4,846 or 2.60 applicants per matriculated student.

Now we can discuss, speculate, argue about the differences of the applicant pools, but these are the reported numbers.

I have no idea why you choose to interpret these numbers that way. Of course it is FAR easier to get into a DO school than a US MD school. And I went to a DO school!

Again, you are bringing up a completely indisputable point and are for some bizarre reason taking the indefensible counterpoint. What about the concept of self selection? Many, many people who apply to DO schools don't even apply to MD schools because they know off the bat they are not competitive and don't want to waste their time/money applying. The best (only) way to judge competitiveness would be avg gpa/avg MCAT. Each of these are of course much higher for accepted US MD students vs. accepted US DO students. And again, I am a graduate of a DO school saying this.

Your bizarre initial extrapolation of the data makes no sense. It is completely irrelevant what percent of all residency applicants (US MD vs DO) choose anesthesia. Just because 4% of each choose anesthesia does not mean both have equivalent probabilities of matching. As I posted, look at those 2 pages from Charting the Outcomes showing matching probabilities for Independent applicant vs US MD by board score. This is the only data that matters, and it shows a HUGE difference between US MD applicants and independent applicants. As I've been through a bunch of times, this does not break it down by FMG vs DO, but it is plainly obvious from experience/anecdotally/all known knowledge on the topic/talking to dozens of program directors that in terms of competitiveness it is US MD>DO>FMG. Period. Nothing to debate.

 

[okayplayer]

Again, I simply ask please show me some data to support the indisputable point. Period I am not debating. I am reporting in the same manner that NRMP does. About 4.2% of all allopathic seniors enter allopathic anesthesiology and about 3.8% of all osetopathic seniors enter allopathic anesthesiology. minor difference at most.

And as I said concerning medical school acceptance rates, we can argue about the applicant pools, self selection, etc. I am simply reporting the data that exists.

Page 23/24 of your link: Charting the Outcomes.

 

[scpod]

You can continue to bicker about statistics all you want... but that really doesn't answer the actual question from the OP. You'll never answer it. But, four people in my class matched anesthesia. All were to ACGME residencies-- none to AOA residencies. That alone is evidence that it is doable. I'm sure that every other DO school has people match as well. Is it harder? Who cares? It's still doable if you are willing to put forth the effort.

 

[PharmaTope]

You can continue to bicker about statistics all you want... but that really doesn't answer the actual question from the OP. You'll never answer it. But, four people in my class matched anesthesia. All were to ACGME residencies-- none to AOA residencies. That alone is evidence that it is doable. I'm sure that every other DO school has people match as well. Is it harder? Who cares? It's still doable if you are willing to put forth the effort.

it is def doable. I know of a few people matching allo as DO's this past yr at top notch programs (hopkins).

 

[okayplayer]

.

 

[okayplayer]

.

 

[go_mountaineers]

Can anyone tell me (that has gone through the process or have classmates that have gone through the process) what a competitive comlex score is when matching to a DO or MD program. Yes I know 700s are always good but in reality among yourselves or individuals you know what were some of the ranges.

I got a 538 on comlex 1 and am just wondering if that's high enough.

 

[BobBarker]

DO residencies, thats fine. Its really all about kissing butt. You can have a failure on one of the steps and match DO gas, ahead of someone with scores similar to yours if you know the right people. Allo you need to take the USMLE. Comparing allo and DO residencies is like comparing apples to... crabapples.

 

[SukaNeNauka]

For allopathic residencies 538 is too low unless you know someone who can "get you in" Try to take USMLE step 1 and score >220 at the minimum, and also consider taking USMLE step 2. There were several MD anesthesiology programs this year who wanted to see step 2 scores prior to ranking (U Cincinnati, U Vermont come to mind), but most programs did not care.

 

[aimedicine]

This is patently false. As someone who has actually gone through this process, it is obviously far easier for a US MD student to match into allopathic anesthesiology than a DO. A much higher percentage of DO applicants applying for anesthesiology end up scrambling than US MDs. Period. A US MD with a >215 (and no red flags/personality disorders) is basically guaranteed to match if he/she applies to enough programs, but a DO with the same numbers is certainly not, as the 3 people in my class who did not match could tell you.

In terms of competitiveness it is quite clearly: US MD>DO>FMG. This difference really comes into play with the least competitive applicants of each group. A DO with <215 (or even 220 really) is in pretty bad shape, but US MD's with 200-205 routinely match with no problems to anesthesia.

That's not to say it's really that tough to match as a DO with good board scores. It's definitely doable if you apply liberally and as long as you aren't shooting for one of the 8-10 top programs who basically never take DOs. For example, I applied to 60 programs and got 46 interviews, and I don't really have crazy high board scores (but well above avg).

Also, don't forget a low Step I can be made up for with a better USMLE Step II.

I'm interested in this, hypothetically speaking if i'm a D.O applicant with 217 step 1, 240 step 2...do i have a fair chance at gas?

 

[buccsmf1]

I'm interested in this, hypothetically speaking if i'm a D.O applicant with 217 step 1, 240 step 2...do i have a fair chance at gas?

i think you'll match, but it will be tough. apply liberally to EVERY bottom->mid tier program and aim for 10 interviews. and remember, that while a 240 seems good, 237 is average...

ps. this thread is full of BS. its substantially easier for an MD to match MD gas, and anyone that tells you otherwise is a complete *****.

 

[cliquesh]

I'm interested in this, hypothetically speaking if i'm a D.O applicant with 217 step 1, 240 step 2...do i have a fair chance at gas?

You'll probably match, I think.

 

[bigyihoroi]

I'm interested in this, hypothetically speaking if i'm a D.O applicant with 217 step 1, 240 step 2...do i have a fair chance at gas?

You will match. I did worse. So relax bro

 

[RichterBelmont]

How important is volunteering or research in terms of getting into an anesthesiology residency?

USMLE Step 1: 233
Comlex Level 1: 627

Thanks for all your help!

 

[buccsmf1]

How important is volunteering or research in terms of getting into an anesthesiology residency?

USMLE Step 1: 233
Comlex Level 1: 627

Thanks for all your help!

unless you did some sort of amazing volunteer work saving lives in africa it wont matter at all. research can help, but isnt all that important in the anesthesia world. solid step 1, take step 2 early and do well and youll be fine.