Angry, Frustrated, seeking honest advice.

[GotNoGame]

Hey guys, let me just put this out there, I'm an IMG MS1 in an M.B.B.S course. Don't have an undergrad degree (just went after a year or UG in the states) I don't have any expectations for any competitive field like Derm because I'll be perfectly happy with IM or FM, as long as I'm considered a Doctor.

I have always liked the idea of being a doctor, the prestige, the amazing intellectual stimulation, the great job satisfaction and of course, the comfortable income.

However, second semester into MS1 and I still haven't passed a single Anatomy exam, Biochem is also kicking my tail. I am having so much trouble handling med school and it has really dropped my confidence to the point where I get depressed often. Now I'm considering quitting after the year simply because I don't think I'll be able to clear the USMLE. Pretty much all my friends and family are telling me to "be positive" the typical fairy tale talk you hear.

Problem is, if I quit, I don't know what I'd do. I have a lot of connections here, so I won't really "fail." But clearing the USMLE is what stands in my way.

So, stick to it or drop out? Also, lets say I don't pass the boards or do poorly, would there be any opportunity for an M.B.B.S? Maybe I could go into MBA? I don't know if that's allowed though

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[schussboarder]

Hey guys, let me just put this out there, I'm an IMG MS1 in an M.B.B.S course. Don't have an undergrad degree (just went after a year or UG in the states) I don't have any expectations for any competitive field like Derm because I'll be perfectly happy with IM or FM, as long as I'm considered a Doctor.

I have always liked the idea of being a doctor, the prestige, the amazing intellectual stimulation, the great job satisfaction and of course, the comfortable income.

However, second semester into MS1 and I still haven't passed a single Anatomy exam, Biochem is also kicking my tail. I am having so much trouble handling med school and it has really dropped my confidence to the point where I get depressed often. Now I'm considering quitting after the year simply because I don't think I'll be able to clear the USMLE. Pretty much all my friends and family are telling me to "be positive" the typical fairy tale talk you hear.

Problem is, if I quit, I don't know what I'd do. I have a lot of connections here, so I won't really "fail." But clearing the USMLE is what stands in my way.

So, stick to it or drop out? Also, lets say I don't pass the boards or do poorly, would there be any opportunity for an M.B.B.S? Maybe I could go into MBA? I don't know if that's allowed though

seriously consider completing an undergraduate degree....seems like your study skill aren't up to par. Finish out the UG degree then reapply...there is a reason why most medical schools require you to complete a UG degree before applying

 

[GotNoGame]

seriously consider completing an undergraduate degree....seems like your study skill aren't up to par. Finish out the UG degree then reapply...there is a reason why most medical schools require you to complete a UG degree before applying

I'm sorry but that's not very helpful. Just pretend I did my UG and give advice from there. I was a good student in HS and did well my first year of UG

 

[schussboarder]

I'm sorry but that's not very helpful. Just pretend I did my UG and give advice from there. I was a good student in HS and did well my first year of UG

Its not unhelpful...its true. regardless of how good you were in high school there is a lot that you learn in UG. People mature a great deal throughout their undergrad which is why many american medical schools require that you complete it. You can act like you are wise enough to know enough every thing after completing your first year of undergrad ( as I did which i can attest to since I felt the same way) but honestly your views seem as if you are looking for the easy way to get an MD.

If you go to medical school and you're failing all of these anatomy exams and are on the boarder of failing biochem it seems like a red flag that you have done something wrong, and with you stating that you haven't even completed UG, it seems like a no brainer what the problem is

 

[Bacchus]

OP, he's right. You don't seem in the position to be calling someone a fool here... take the advice.

 

[Rollo]

How do you study? I.E. tell us your study techniques.

 

[Stixman28]

Don't be a fool. All the kids here went straight out of high school. And there's 2 year ug plus 4 yrs md fast track programs in the states. Can I actually get some useful advice now

Sure seems like you're the fool bud. We're all passing.

Is it a coincidence that we are older and have had the chance to mold our study skills? perhaps, but it's an interesting one.

Don't come on an online forum and ask for advice if you don't want it. At least do us the favor of what some kids do and tell us what you think so you can twist our arm and have us verify it for you.

I'm sorry but that's not very helpful. Just pretend I did my UG and give advice from there. I was a good student in HS and did well my first year of UG

Obviously there's a difference btw UG and med school otherwise you'd be doing fine now.

 

[Rollo]

Actually, OP has a point that tons and tons of kids go straight to MBBS medical school in other countries straight out of high school.

So potentially, the problem with the OP could be that his study habits aren't efficient.

 

[Mr hawkings]

Actually, OP has a point that tons and tons of kids go straight to MBBS medical school in other countries straight out of high school.

So potentially, the problem with the OP could be that his study habits aren't efficient.

So maybe he/she should ask someone in a similar system for advice since those of us in a different system cannot relate.

 

[GotNoGame]

Honestly the people here just memorize the whole textbook which is pretty much impossible for us foreign students to do since we like to read to understand.

Here's what I do to study. In class listen to lecture and take my own notes. But some of the lecturers are outrageously bad and it's next to impossible to make good notes because the info they present is often full of inaccuracy.

Go home and study the notes then I read from the textbook and underline key words and circle new terminology. Can't do it everyday because most of the time I'm too tired from the long day. 9-5 and 9-1 on Saturdays (yes we have school on Saturdays unfortunately) but since exams are coming up we are on full leave for the next 2 months to prepare. I tried Reading aloud as well but I find that I can't really focus on the material because I'm focusing on my voice more. My Reading speed also is pretty slow (10-15 pages per hour) or is that normal? Groups just end up as conversations about what to do over the weekend so it destroys eficiency (sp?)

 

[Integrity]

Sure seems like you're the fool bud. We're all passing.

Is it a coincidence that we are older and have had the chance to mold our study skills? perhaps, but it's an interesting one.

Don't come on an online forum and ask for advice if you don't want it. At least do us the favor of what some kids do and tell us what you think so you can twist our arm and have us verify it for you.

Obviously there's a difference btw UG and med school otherwise you'd be doing fine now.

I studied in Europe, and went straight into med school there from senior high.

Generally, I find that learning is easier when you have a picture of what you can do with the knowledge. If you picture yourself learning anatomy so that you can do appys, you will be more motivated.

Even the brightest genius can be the total loser in med school if he or she lacks the passion. Without the passion, you can bring yourself to read hours after hours, but you will forget more.

I am not hopping on the soapbox claiming that external validation needs makes you a lousy doctor. The SDN Godwin's law ppl can handle that. But if you can overcome the feeling of falling out of med school, you might save yourself a ****load of misery later on if you bail now, and find something else you could experience more pleasure learning.

Arguing against myself, I found working quite a bit different than studying, and more rewarding.

A science UG would make you better suited for research, but you can hop into research without a degree in Europe, without any problems. I am not interested in research, my hands are my valuable assets. There are many things I would have loved to study as UG, instead of the popular science like extended med school in the European system, but I doubt the real necessity. Sounds more like a snobbish rationalization.

The smartest thing at this point, even though you might feel you don't have the time for it, is to take some hours a week looking at your options. Maybe even a professional could have some input, and check for depression.

If you have a serious chance at lowering the status needs, take that chance. The absence of status might hurt you, but status alone is not gonna bring you happiness. If you would be more happy going into something more intellectually stimulating, could you try that for a semester or two?

10-15 pages per hour, is pretty ok in my opinion. Depending on the book, whether we are talking big robbins, or board series, of course.

I believed when I started out, that I had to buy the most prestigious and heaviest books in order to be top-notch. I realized that I actually learned better when I bought two books. One that was highly rated on amazon for quick learning/overview, and another for more in-depth knowledge. Most of the in-depth stuff never sticks anyway. Grab an anatomy-book with good mnemonics, and learn that by heart.

 

[Rollo]

Honestly the people here just memorize the whole textbook which is pretty much impossible for us foreign students to do since we like to read to understand.

Here's what I do to study. In class listen to lecture and take my own notes. But some of the lecturers are outrageously bad and it's next to impossible to make good notes because the info they present is often full of inaccuracy.

Go home and study the notes then I read from the textbook and underline key words and circle new terminology. Can't do it everyday because most of the time I'm too tired from the long day. 9-5 and 9-1 on Saturdays (yes we have school on Saturdays unfortunately) but since exams are coming up we are on full leave for the next 2 months to prepare. I tried Reading aloud as well but I find that I can't really focus on the material because I'm focusing on my voice more. My Reading speed also is pretty slow (10-15 pages per hour) or is that normal? Groups just end up as conversations about what to do over the weekend so it destroys eficiency (sp?)

Have you tried not attending lectures?

If that isn't possible, can you read from your textbook while you're in lecture? I know this sounds tough but who knows, put on some music on headphones and zone out and focus on your textbook?

I won't lie, 9-5 is a LONG day and it would be next to impossible for me to be in lecture for that long and not get anything out of them (which is what is happening to you).

Why don't you try memorizing right now? Repetition, repetition, repetition is key. Forget trying to understand the material now simply because we want to see if you can memorize and get good grades. Then you slowly start integrating "understanding the material" with "rote memorization" study skills so ultimately you will be able to do both within the same time frame and won't be sacrificing your grades.

 

[GotNoGame]

Unfortunately you can't skip the lecture because it's like mandatory 75% attendance otherwise you aren't elligible for the finals. Plus the days are like half lecture and half practicals. For instance 9-1 is mostly lecture and then 1-2 is lunch break. Then 2-5 is anatomy dissection or something like experimental or clinical physiology. Do they teach experimental phys in the states? It seems completely useless to me. We learn about various instruments like the dubois reymond induction coil and how they are used to induce stimuli apon the human body. I wish I could just quit now and go to the states and reapply through undergrad, but life is never that simple and not only would I feel like I'm going "backwards" in terms of the material but I would have also wasted 20k USD this year, unfortunatly it's all non refundable and there is some "termination penalty" kind or like a cell phone 0_0

 

[Rollo]

Ok wait, first of all, where do you plan on practicing? US or the country you're in right now?

I ask because it's important for you to realize that applying for a residency in the US as an IMG is a big hurdle. I'm not sure of the statistics but even fields like FM and IM are fairly competitive for an IMG. You can look at the data http://www.nrmp.org/data/index.html and see for yourself how competitive it is for IMGs to apply for residencies.

We, meaning my school personally, doesn't teach us intricate experimental details in physiology like the one you described. My school focuses on clinically relevant physiology. Every now and then, although it is rare, a professor will throw in a tidbit about experimental methodology or research topics or what have you.

When I had anatomy, my schedule looked similar to yours, and I could tell you that I couldn't focus at all during classes because lecturers were moving too fast. So I stopped going to classes (still had to go to lab) and that made a world of difference. That is not the case for you unfortunately.

In that case, I think you should try and study from the textbook while you're in lecture. I know that's what I would do if I had to go to class every day.

 

[shreypete]

Well I got into medical school right after high school (in Europe) and I think I'm the only North American student who did this right after high school (but that's only because I did like the IB program + a dozen AP courses and a few college courses at the local college when I was a junior and senior.) I don't think I would ever recommend it to anyone unless they've done lots of college level courses in high school. Here in Europe, it's just ridiculously hard because we're supposed to read all the big-texts (Moore's Anatomy, Guyton's Physiology, Harper's/Lippincotts Biochem, Robbins Pathology) unlike in the US, where a majority use review books and class notes or in other countries (where they've published their own medical books for different subjects.)

Initially I had a hard time with subjects like biophysics (as physics wasn't my strong subject in school), Histology, and Embryology but I eventually got the hang of them and they got easier and easier over the year.

If it's any consolation, Anatomy is actually a hard subject for everyone but it's definitely do-able. You just have to use the right resources and study "right". I used Netters (for class tests), Rohen's photographic atlas (for the dissection course) and Moore's Clinically Oriented Anatomy for the exam and I did quite well. For Physio, I just used Guyton and I think it's more than enough. You can't go wrong with such an awesome book. For Biochem, I used both Lippincotts and Harpers (for the structures and chapters that weren't covered in Lippincotts, however, I hated Harpers because it was just too detailed.)

Tons of students in my class during the 1st year (and these are American/Canadian undergrad students) dropped out or failed either because they got distracted too often or didn't study right. Some of them in fact, kept studying like crazy, only to fail the next text, get disappointed, and repeat the whole process again. So study right. Make sure you focus on what's important (depending on what the professors emphasize.) Try changing your study methods and perhaps getting involved in group study of some sort. I'm not really a group study person myself but some of my friends swear by that approach. As long as you're spending your time constructively in group studies, it should help you.

I assure you that if you try and do well in all your classes (without using all those "contacts") you will eventually develop the knack for studying each subject and you'll know how to approach that subject when you're studying for the USMLEs. Even if you did use your contacts, I don't think it would ultimately help you with the MLEs because you have to know your stuff really well (and should be able to apply it to clinical scenarios) and that requires hard-work and studying in the right way.

Bottom line: either consider finishing up college (preferable) or just stick it out and develop new study methods. The advantage of finishing up with college prior to getting into medical school will immensely help you in acquiring the right study skills. Perhaps if you were studying in that country (where you're attending medical school) for some time prior to applying to medical school, that would have helped more, but I guess that didn't happen.

I hope you'll be able to cope up in the end. Good luck!

 

[Stixman28]

Honestly the people here just memorize the whole textbook which is pretty much impossible for us foreign students to do since we like to read to understand.

Here's what I do to study. In class listen to lecture and take my own notes. But some of the lecturers are outrageously bad and it's next to impossible to make good notes because the info they present is often full of inaccuracy.

Go home and study the notes then I read from the textbook and underline key words and circle new terminology. Can't do it everyday because most of the time I'm too tired from the long day. 9-5 and 9-1 on Saturdays (yes we have school on Saturdays unfortunately) but since exams are coming up we are on full leave for the next 2 months to prepare. I tried Reading aloud as well but I find that I can't really focus on the material because I'm focusing on my voice more. My Reading speed also is pretty slow (10-15 pages per hour) or is that normal? Groups just end up as conversations about what to do over the weekend so it destroys eficiency (sp?)

I would say people everywhere like to read understand, its just a matter of fact that due to the quantity of material, you, I and even those kids over there just don't have time to go through everything slowly and read every page of the book.

A lot of people organize their notes from lecture into something more personal from which they are able to memorize from. I kind of dont see anything above where you're just memorizing. Circling and underlining new terminology in not the same thing. You need to go back over those things 2-3x and test yourself, to ensure that you have at least acquired recall.

Do you have to read the book? Im not familiar with what your tests would be like, but here at least, if you learn all of the slides from a lecture, you don't really need to touch the book.

Really, you need to focus on memorizing and repeating.

 

[schandan13]

OP, are you studying MBBS in India ? If you are, i can be of some help. Let me know.

 

[Meibomian SxN]

...Problem is, if I quit, I don't know what I'd do. I have a lot of connections here, so I won't really "fail." But clearing the USMLE is what stands in my way.

So, stick to it or drop out? Also, lets say I don't pass the boards or do poorly, would there be any opportunity for an M.B.B.S? Maybe I could go into MBA? I don't know if that's allowed though

Based on what you wrote, I do not think medicine is for you. Seems like you just want the "title" and "respect" of being called doctor of Family or Internal Medicine.

I suggest looking into an MPH degree which would still keep you in the medical field. Or you can always do IT

 

[hwatson]

Ok wait, first of all, where do you plan on practicing? US or the country you're in right now?

I ask because it's important for you to realize that applying for a residency in the US as an IMG is a big hurdle. I'm not sure of the statistics but even fields like FM and IM are fairly competitive for an IMG. You can look at the data http://www.nrmp.org/data/index.html and see for yourself how competitive it is for IMGs to apply for residencies.

He is right. With the increased enrollment/class sizes of Allopathic and osteopathic schools and the increased number of both med school types, IMGs are being phased out.
The problem for IMGs is that the total number of US graduates is increasing while the number of residency slots is staying the same. That is going to push many students into primary care. (Primary care was typically the place where IMGs would do residency).
Therefore, the residency positions that were available in the past will be gone by about 2014. So if you really want to be a physician in the USA, you need to attend a US school.

Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[GotNoGame]

I studied in Europe, and went straight into med school there from senior high.

Generally, I find that learning is easier when you have a picture of what you can do with the knowledge. If you picture yourself learning anatomy so that you can do appys, you will be more motivated.

Even the brightest genius can be the total loser in med school if he or she lacks the passion. Without the passion, you can bring yourself to read hours after hours, but you will forget more.

I am not hopping on the soapbox claiming that external validation needs makes you a lousy doctor. The SDN Godwin's law ppl can handle that. But if you can overcome the feeling of falling out of med school, you might save yourself a ****load of misery later on if you bail now, and find something else you could experience more pleasure learning.

Arguing against myself, I found working quite a bit different than studying, and more rewarding.

A science UG would make you better suited for research, but you can hop into research without a degree in Europe, without any problems. I am not interested in research, my hands are my valuable assets. There are many things I would have loved to study as UG, instead of the popular science like extended med school in the European system, but I doubt the real necessity. Sounds more like a snobbish rationalization.

The smartest thing at this point, even though you might feel you don't have the time for it, is to take some hours a week looking at your options. Maybe even a professional could have some input, and check for depression.

If you have a serious chance at lowering the status needs, take that chance. The absence of status might hurt you, but status alone is not gonna bring you happiness. If you would be more happy going into something more intellectually stimulating, could you try that for a semester or two?

10-15 pages per hour, is pretty ok in my opinion. Depending on the book, whether we are talking big robbins, or board series, of course.

I believed when I started out, that I had to buy the most prestigious and heaviest books in order to be top-notch. I realized that I actually learned better when I bought two books. One that was highly rated on amazon for quick learning/overview, and another for more in-depth knowledge. Most of the in-depth stuff never sticks anyway. Grab an anatomy-book with good mnemonics, and learn that by heart.

Could you please recommend some good anatomy mneumonic books? I do tend to mix up my books. For the international students they recommend we read Guyton, lipp and harpers. The same as what you stated. However I don't know any good anatomy books because we just read the local book (bd chaurasia)

Well I got into medical school right after high school (in Europe) and I think I'm the only North American student who did this right after high school (but that's only because I did like the IB program + a dozen AP courses and a few college courses at the local college when I was a junior and senior.) I don't think I would ever recommend it to anyone unless they've done lots of college level courses in high school. Here in Europe, it's just ridiculously hard because we're supposed to read all the big-texts (Moore's Anatomy, Guyton's Physiology, Harper's/Lippincotts Biochem, Robbins Pathology) unlike in the US, where a majority use review books and class notes or in other countries (where they've published their own medical books for different subjects.)

Initially I had a hard time with subjects like biophysics (as physics wasn't my strong subject in school), Histology, and Embryology but I eventually got the hang of them and they got easier and easier over the year.

If it's any consolation, Anatomy is actually a hard subject for everyone but it's definitely do-able. You just have to use the right resources and study "right". I used Netters (for class tests), Rohen's photographic atlas (for the dissection course) and Moore's Clinically Oriented Anatomy for the exam and I did quite well. For Physio, I just used Guyton and I think it's more than enough. You can't go wrong with such an awesome book. For Biochem, I used both Lippincotts and Harpers (for the structures and chapters that weren't covered in Lippincotts, however, I hated Harpers because it was just too detailed.)

Tons of students in my class during the 1st year (and these are American/Canadian undergrad students) dropped out or failed either because they got distracted too often or didn't study right. Some of them in fact, kept studying like crazy, only to fail the next text, get disappointed, and repeat the whole process again. So study right. Make sure you focus on what's important (depending on what the professors emphasize.) Try changing your study methods and perhaps getting involved in group study of some sort. I'm not really a group study person myself but some of my friends swear by that approach. As long as you're spending your time constructively in group studies, it should help you.

I assure you that if you try and do well in all your classes (without using all those "contacts") you will eventually develop the knack for studying each subject and you'll know how to approach that subject when you're studying for the USMLEs. Even if you did use your contacts, I don't think it would ultimately help you with the MLEs because you have to know your stuff really well (and should be able to apply it to clinical scenarios) and that requires hard-work and studying in the right way.

Bottom line: either consider finishing up college (preferable) or just stick it out and develop new study methods. The advantage of finishing up with college prior to getting into medical school will immensely help you in acquiring the right study skills. Perhaps if you were studying in that country (where you're attending medical school) for some time prior to applying to medical school, that would have helped more, but I guess that didn't happen.

I hope you'll be able to cope up in the end. Good luck!

thanks! See above.

I would say people everywhere like to read understand, its just a matter of fact that due to the quantity of material, you, I and even those kids over there just don't have time to go through everything slowly and read every page of the book.

A lot of people organize their notes from lecture into something more personal from which they are able to memorize from. I kind of dont see anything above where you're just memorizing. Circling and underlining new terminology in not the same thing. You need to go back over those things 2-3x and test yourself, to ensure that you have at least acquired recall.

Do you have to read the book? Im not familiar with what your tests would be like, but here at least, if you learn all of the slides from a lecture, you don't really need to touch the book.

Really, you need to focus on memorizing and repeating.

that's pretty cool how in the states they are allowed to do that. But here we have to read the book. Plus side is that our students repeatedly score 99s and overall higher than the us average.

Ok wait, first of all, where do you plan on practicing? US or the country you're in right now?

I ask because it's important for you to realize that applying for a residency in the US as an IMG is a big hurdle. I'm not sure of the statistics but even fields like FM and IM are fairly competitive for an IMG. You can look at the data http://www.nrmp.org/data/index.html and see for yourself how competitive it is for IMGs to apply for residencies.

We, meaning my school personally, doesn't teach us intricate experimental details in physiology like the one you described. My school focuses on clinically relevant physiology. Every now and then, although it is rare, a professor will throw in a tidbit about experimental methodology or research topics or what have you.

When I had anatomy, my schedule looked similar to yours, and I could tell you that I couldn't focus at all during classes because lecturers were moving too fast. So I stopped going to classes (still had to go to lab) and that made a world of difference. That is not the case for you unfortunately.

In that case, I think you should try and study from the textbook while you're in lecture. I know that's what I would do if I had to go to class every day.

I realize it's hard for the international students but it ain't impossible. And I know quite a few people from here who have even matched competitive specialities like anesthesia and urology. Why SND always makes it sound so bad I don't know.

OP, are you studying MBBS in India ? If you are, i can be of some help. Let me know.

yes I am! Though I will not state where. Please do help!

Based on what you wrote, I do not think medicine is for you. Seems like you just want the "title" and "respect" of being called doctor of Family or Internal Medicine.

I suggest looking into an MPH degree which would still keep you in the medical field. Or you can always do IT

Please get off your high moral horse, do you think all your fellow us classmates passed fair and square? Well guess what? They didn't. Just because you haven't witnessed something happen doesn't meanit doesn't happen. Politics is a game played all over the world,and you either adapt and learn the rules of the game or stand on the sidelines and complain.

He is right. With the increased enrollment/class sizes of Allopathic and osteopathic schools and the increased number of both med school types, IMGs are being phased out.
The problem for IMGs is that the total number of US graduates is increasing while the number of residency slots is staying the same. That is going to push many students into primary care. (Primary care was typically the place where IMGs would do residency).
Therefore, the residency positions that were available in the past will be gone by about 2014. So if you really want to be a physician in the USA, you need to attend a US school.

Hope this helps and good luck.

thanks but like I said above, I don't know why snd users are always so negative about the IMGs. I know some big docs in the states including dr. Jessica freedman whom I spoke to about his very issue and she said it's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. I'm sure a director like herself would know what she's talking about, aren't you? Plus if what you're claiming was really true then big carribean schools like sgu would go out of business, which I don't see happening.

-this message was posted from iPhone 3gs

 

[GotNoGame]

Something I'd like to add. Do you know why Donald trump became filthy rich? It's because when everyone in the real estate Market was claiming that the only direction this Market is going is down down down, he still bought property while eveyonr else told him not to, I think you get the moral here.

 

[schandan13]

Well the indian medical system isn't there to help you with the USMLEs. Let that be the least of your worries at the moment. I know of many people who studied for 4 months during their internship and got 99s. Were they all super intelligent during their MBBS ? No. Were they good test takers ? Yes. The point i'm trying to make is that at this time, DO NOT think of residency, the steps etc. Think about strengthening your basic sciences knowledge. You will have ample amount of time to prepare for the steps during your internship.

As for doing well right now, my suggestion is to review review and review. You are EXPECTED to know everything in basic sciences. More so in india, you're expected to regurgitate it out on 5-6 sheets of paper for a 10 marks question.
Seek help from your seniors, get your books marked, do 10 year papers. The key is to study smart and concentrate on high yield topics.

Funny, an american is in india finding the system hard, and i'm an indian finding the american (well, almost) system hard.

 

[schandan13]

Also, you don't have to worry about maintaining a GPA ! Just make sure you clear all prof exams in 1 attempt. The only thing that would matter would be that you graduated on time. Clearing the prof exams and getting a 99 are nowhere near related.

 

[GotNoGame]

Also, you don't have to worry about maintaining a GPA ! Just make sure you clear all prof exams in 1 attempt. The only thing that would matter would be that you graduated on time. Clearing the prof exams and getting a 99 are nowhere near related.

Thing I'm worried about is that I have such a tough time passing exams. I can't even clear anatomy for once and biochem is a monster too. Seniors are saying don't worry however, if I can't even pass now, how will I even clear the mle?


You're finding our system to be difficult? You shouldn't have a problem man. Kids from india are brilliant students, but Americans are bitter and jealous toward them so they consider them inferior.

 

[Rollo]

I never said it was impossible, I wanted you to realize (and you do so that's a good thing) that it's difficult for an IMG to match into a residency which would be relatively easier for a US grad to match into.

And I see good motivation in you, i.e. when you mention Donald Trump example. That's good, keep that fire going homie. Apply the same type of passion towards learning the material and you will be fine.

Look into Moore's Essential Clinical Anatomy if you're looking for a good anatomy textbook.

 

[schandan13]

Thing I'm worried about is that I have such a tough time passing exams. I can't even clear anatomy for once and biochem is a monster too. Seniors are saying don't worry however, if I can't even pass now, how will I even clear the mle?


You're finding our system to be difficult? You shouldn't have a problem man. Kids from india are brilliant students, but Americans are bitter and jealous toward them so they consider them inferior.

It's alot easier to clear a theory exam than it is to clear a 150 MCQ based one. You either get a point or you don't. In theoretical exams, you're score is at the professor's discretion. He may give you 5/10 or 7/10. Either way, when you add it all up, you pass. Also to answer something in 5 sheets may not necessarily require to know the material inside out. You pen down basic headings/important points and form your answer around it. And lastly, 50% is passing. That's alot less than it is here. You get 1 year to do the entire anatomy/histology/biochem. We get 4.5 months. Go figure.

Anyway, i suggest you follow simple books by indian authors. Try studying from B.D. Chaurasia and A.K. Jain before you pick up Gray's or Guyton. Try and memorize an answer, close the book and try repeating it over. Then say it out loud. Write down cycles/pathways for biochemistry. Try and relate anatomy to your own body and see how it works. Don't JUST memorize. Relate to it in which ever way works for you. Heck, make a stupid story out of it.

I'll repeat what i said earlier. This IS NOT THE TIME FOR YOU TO WORRY ABOUT THE USMLE. That will come late, very late. I don't know of many kids who give the steps during their MBBS. Most, if not all, give them during their internship. That's 5.5 years away for you. Concentrate on doing previous years exams and repeating what you learn in your mind 4-5 times over.

 

[shreypete]

I have a question for you. Why exactly aren't you able to clear these exams? Is it due to a lack of knowledge? or you aren't studying the right material? or you're not grasping the concepts?

I do have an Indian friend who studies with me and he bought an Indian Anatomy series comprising of 3 books (it was called Chauresia and was red in color.) I remember skimming over a few pages from that book and boy, have I found it to be the most confusing book ever or what. But I can't comment on the credibility of the book as it must be one of recommended books there and I've never read it in detail.

Do try to make use of the internet sites posted on the Allopathic thread (for different subjects; it's the first post I think.)

Here in Europe, the profs. test on the some of the most ridiculous, minuscule details which I think are useless, but that's the system here, and I can't complain. I only used Moore's Anatomy (and Snell's Neuroanatomy) as my main texts because there were recommended to us by our Anatomy department. If I were in another medical school in another country, I would use the books recommended by that school. Problem is that if those books aren't that good, then you should find a book that suits you.

Rough it out this semester and if you still aren't able to cope up, then perhaps you should consider taking a break and acquiring some study skills.

 

[hwatson]

Dear GotNoGame

I like your fight. You make some good points and a little optimism will keep you going. Just keep trying and do well. It only takes one residency to say "yes" and you are accepted. So remember that you can do it.

As far as the IMG's, I didn't mean to be negative. The fact is that they are given last shot at residencies. behind US grads and Osteo grads. the reason is that the carribean and international schools tend to have a lower mean USMLE score. With that said, you will do fine in school, then take an USMLE prep course and do much better than the mean. That will overcome all the statistics.

Good luck and study hard

 

[GotNoGame]

I never said it was impossible, I wanted you to realize (and you do so that's a good thing) that it's difficult for an IMG to match into a residency which would be relatively easier for a US grad to match into.

And I see good motivation in you, i.e. when you mention Donald Trump example. That's good, keep that fire going homie. Apply the same type of passion towards learning the material and you will be fine.

Look into Moore's Essential Clinical Anatomy if you're looking for a good anatomy textbook.

I do realize, but when I talked to the big players about it (program directors, etc) they told me it wouldn't be a problem as they have a lot of people who match into competitive residencies as well. My brother in law only had a Step 1 score around 82 or something and he matched Anesthesia, I don't know if that would still be possible now because this was about 5 years back.

I do have motivation, but I tend to become discouraged when I can't grasp and remember the material. Also, while I do find a lot of what I've learned this year interesting, a bigger part of it just feels like I'm having to jump through hoops. Biochem as a subject (except the Vitamin stuff) bores me to death and makes me want to close the book and go do something else. Also Anatomy as a whole is damn difficult and in Neuroanatomy, I am COMPLETELY lost.

In Physiology, some parts are interesting, but then other stuff like Renal Filtration and the CNS, feels like a chore.

I'm not sure if it's normal to feel this way or not, I'm pretty much torn between quitting and staying because if I went back now, I'd be a laughing stock.

But on the flip side, I just can't bring myself to read 8-12 hours a day, it's just not my cup of tea and doing it forcefully will be of no use.

P.S. Thanks for the book suggestion. I'll check it out if it's available here (which I bet probably isn't likely)

It's alot easier to clear a theory exam than it is to clear a 150 MCQ based one. You either get a point or you don't. In theoretical exams, you're score is at the professor's discretion. He may give you 5/10 or 7/10. Either way, when you add it all up, you pass. Also to answer something in 5 sheets may not necessarily require to know the material inside out. You pen down basic headings/important points and form your answer around it. And lastly, 50% is passing. That's alot less than it is here. You get 1 year to do the entire anatomy/histology/biochem. We get 4.5 months. Go figure.

Anyway, i suggest you follow simple books by indian authors. Try studying from B.D. Chaurasia and A.K. Jain before you pick up Gray's or Guyton. Try and memorize an answer, close the book and try repeating it over. Then say it out loud. Write down cycles/pathways for biochemistry. Try and relate anatomy to your own body and see how it works. Don't JUST memorize. Relate to it in which ever way works for you. Heck, make a stupid story out of it.

I'll repeat what i said earlier. This IS NOT THE TIME FOR YOU TO WORRY ABOUT THE USMLE. That will come late, very late. I don't know of many kids who give the steps during their MBBS. Most, if not all, give them during their internship. That's 5.5 years away for you. Concentrate on doing previous years exams and repeating what you learn in your mind 4-5 times over.

I hate BDC although they keep suggesting I read it and nothing else. Though I think that's just an excuse I'm using for my failure in the subject.

You mentioned that the exams here are easier than the USMLE, but over here, they say the exact opposite. I've even know a doctor in the states (currently a program director) who graduated from the same college I'm in right now many years back; he told me that the MLEs were a cake walk to the exams over here and almost all of his friends made 99s with none of them going below 90. Maybe he just has some really smart friends but there's seniors here telling me the same thing.

I don't want to finish 5 years only to know that I can't pass the boards, then what would I do? I wouldn't even have a bachelors degree in the states, what would be my options at that point?

I have a question for you. Why exactly aren't you able to clear these exams? Is it due to a lack of knowledge? or you aren't studying the right material? or you're not grasping the concepts?

I do have an Indian friend who studies with me and he bought an Indian Anatomy series comprising of 3 books (it was called Chauresia and was red in color.) I remember skimming over a few pages from that book and boy, have I found it to be the most confusing book ever or what. But I can't comment on the credibility of the book as it must be one of recommended books there and I've never read it in detail.

Do try to make use of the internet sites posted on the Allopathic thread (for different subjects; it's the first post I think.)

Here in Europe, the profs. test on the some of the most ridiculous, minuscule details which I think are useless, but that's the system here, and I can't complain. I only used Moore's Anatomy (and Snell's Neuroanatomy) as my main texts because there were recommended to us by our Anatomy department. If I were in another medical school in another country, I would use the books recommended by that school. Problem is that if those books aren't that good, then you should find a book that suits you.

Rough it out this semester and if you still aren't able to cope up, then perhaps you should consider taking a break and acquiring some study skills.

Same problem here, the profs test on very minuscule details that clearly don't seem important (why they do this I don't know)

As for not being able to clear the exams, it's a mix of the following:

1.) I'm not able to remember such a large volume of information. People claim that it's only a matter of working harder, but I say aptitude plays a bigger role, and I clearly am not smart enough.

2.) Not reading enough. During exam time, I can't read more than 6 hours a day at the most. 3 hours in the morning and 3 in the evening. After that point, I just don't feel like doing it anymore.

3.) A lot of the material IS interesting, but the other half is just so damn boring that I hardly care about it. Yes I know I have to bite the bullet and read it anyway, but I just cant....

4)....Concentrate, which brings me to my next point. I have trouble keeping my undivided attention on the reading. This has been a habit of mine since childhood and frankly, it's getting on my nerves at this point. I don't think I've ever read for an hour straight without looking at FB for 5 minutes or even without staring at the wall. I don't know whether or not I have ADD because I can focus just fine on movies, video games, food, etc. Perhaps I could get some Ritalin and see what happens? I checked here but they don't seem to sell it.

Dear GotNoGame

I like your fight. You make some good points and a little optimism will keep you going. Just keep trying and do well. It only takes one residency to say "yes" and you are accepted. So remember that you can do it.

As far as the IMG's, I didn't mean to be negative. The fact is that they are given last shot at residencies. behind US grads and Osteo grads. the reason is that the carribean and international schools tend to have a lower mean USMLE score. With that said, you will do fine in school, then take an USMLE prep course and do much better than the mean. That will overcome all the statistics.

Good luck and study hard

Thanks hwatson, sorry if I sounded a little steamed; all that frustration from these subjects is really getting to me. Also, thanks for keeping your cool and not retaliating in a hostile manner, as most people would do on the interwebs.

Would you actually happen to know WHY IMGs are discriminated against by residencies? It all seems like politics to me; the pedigree over the percentage. Shouldn't Derm be reserved for the brightest students and not simply AMGs? Personally I think it's a little unfair because not everyone can afford the ridiculous prices that American Med Schools charge. If getting a 99 on the steps STILL can't land you Derm as an IMG, there's something wrong there.

 

[shreypete]

Well, from what you've replied, I don't know if you really like medicine per se. You might like some aspects of it or some topics, but unfortunately, medicine is such a broad field and you have to make an attempt to like everything in order to do well. It also includes having to spend lots of hours everyday studying. Perhaps some other career in the healthcare field might interest you more than medicine? Anyways, like I said, don't give up yet. Try finishing up this semester and if you're still not able to cope up, then you have to make a serious decision as to whether you want to continue med school.

Unfortunately, you do have to be able to spend a lot more than 6 hours. At least during exam time (I usually spend around 13 - 15 hours) but even I do have problems with concentration, especially when we don't have exams. I think a lot of us do. I have a concentration span of 15-30 min. and then I take a small 5 min. break and get back. I take a longer break after every hour.

I think in order to be able to retain a large amount of info., you should read the stuff over and over. Repetition is indeed the mother of learning. You need to look over the stuff 2 to 3 times in order for the material to consolidate in your long term memory.

Do go to a doctor and confirm the ADD thing because that might be a reason why you're not able to focus. Or it could just be that you simply don't find this stuff interesting in the first place (as you stated, you find only some of the stuff interesting.)

Whatever decision you make, make sure that you do it early in the semester because unfortunately, it gets only harder every year (unlike other courses) and you have to retain larger and larger amounts of information but the subjects become more interesting.

 

[GotNoGame]

Well, from what you've replied, I don't know if you really like medicine per se. You might like some aspects of it or some topics, but unfortunately, medicine is such a broad field and you have to make an attempt to like everything in order to do well. It also includes having to spend lots of hours everyday studying. Perhaps some other career in the healthcare field might interest you more than medicine? Anyways, like I said, don't give up yet. Try finishing up this semester and if you're still not able to cope up, then you have to make a serious decision as to whether you want to continue med school.

Unfortunately, you do have to be able to spend a lot more than 6 hours. At least during exam time (I usually spend around 13 - 15 hours) but even I do have problems with concentration, especially when we don't have exams. I think a lot of us do. I have a concentration span of 15-30 min. and then I take a small 5 min. break and get back. I take a longer break after every hour.

I think in order to be able to retain a large amount of info., you should read the stuff over and over. Repetition is indeed the mother of learning. You need to look over the stuff 2 to 3 times in order for the material to consolidate in your long term memory.

Do go to a doctor and confirm the ADD thing because that might be a reason why you're not able to focus. Or it could just be that you simply don't find this stuff interesting in the first place (as you stated, you find only some of the stuff interesting.)

Whatever decision you make, make sure that you do it early in the semester because unfortunately, it gets only harder every year (unlike other courses) and you have to retain larger and larger amounts of information but the subjects become more interesting.

I mean EVERY field has it's obstacles, and I'm sure there's lots of people (actually make that a MAJORITY of medical students) don't like all the material. It's only natural and I will encounter it in any field I decide to pursue. With that said. Yes the attention thing is really frustrating and for some reason the doctors here are either very conservative or they dint even know what ADHD is. They simply change the topic when I bring it up which gives me the impression that they're just doing it so they won't make a bad impression and look dumb. However, one doctor I went to actually told me I might have ADHD (I just told him the symptoms) but he didn't know where I could purchase the medication. So basically I have to seek it out myself.

I was looking at strattera and Ritalin but I asked a few places about metylphenidate and they didn't even know what that drug was for. Maybe if you know any of the different trade names that the drug sells by, it would be of help. I've heard that strattera increase hepatic enzyme activity and there's a possible chance of hepatitis like symptoms.

Finally, I've actually been told by numerous people that only the first two (pre-clinical) years are "hard". After that, the rotation parts are just a lot of work, but it's not necessarly the same process of reading, memorizing and regurgitating on a test.

P.S. Off topic but is there a chance of an IMG like me matching pain med? (anesthesia) I've always liked the field and love sensory physiology. Plus the pay is decent I hear. I know it's a part of "ROAD" but as far as I hear, it's not as competitive as rads or derm

 

[shreypete]

Well, perhaps you should consult a private physician (someone not working at your school)? Or when you go back to the US during your break, you could get in touch with your local doctor there.

Unfortunately, Anesthesia is quite hard, but it is still possible. You just need to have excellent MLE scores (usually above 235+) along with US clinical experience (rotations/electives) and research publications. I think it might be more ideal to first finish your post-graduate training/residency in Anesthesiology where ever you're studying and then apply to the US. You do stand a better chance that way. Most of the IMGs I've known who've gotten into competitive residencies have done this (including my IMG uncle who matched into Orthopedic surgery last year!) Nevertheless, it takes a loooong time because once you're done with your training, you still have to build up your CV by doing research at an American institution and making more contacts. So the first thing you should worry about is finishing up with med school, rocking the MLEs, and then doing some electives during your last year of medical school. You can worry about research a little later.

And yes you're right. You don't have to like every course in medical school. I hate some of them (Pathology comes to my mind.) But you do have to make an effort to like them 'cause that's the only way you'll force yourself to sit and study. And it's worse with medicine since each course seems quite vast and never-ending. I don't know how it works at your school, but yes in general, the preclinical years are supposed to be the hardest (like you said, it's 'cause of the blunt memorizing and regurgitating material on the test.) While it doesn't get any easier, it does get a lot more interesting and that should motivate you.

It's the same at my school, except the first 3 years are a nightmare (We've had so many students who either dropped out or didn't make it) and I hear it's still hard in the clinical years, but not as many people fail as they do in the preclinical years.

Good luck and I hope everything works out for the best!

 

[schandan13]

Finally, I've actually been told by numerous people that only the first two (pre-clinical) years are "hard". After that, the rotation parts are just a lot of work, but it's not necessarly the same process of reading, memorizing and regurgitating on a test.

P.S. Off topic but is there a chance of an IMG like me matching pain med? (anesthesia) I've always liked the field and love sensory physiology. Plus the pay is decent I hear. I know it's a part of "ROAD" but as far as I hear, it's not as competitive as rads or derm

Whoever told you that is obviously confusing rotations with residency. Remember, 3rd and 4th years are ALSO about taking exams like Step 2 CK which ALSO include tons of "memorizing and regurgitating". Atleast in college exams, the agony is over within 3 hours. The step is a 8 freakin long hour test, where you need to maintain a 100% level of concentration. Residency well, you work, mostly. The workings hours there can vary tremendously depending on what year you're in and what field. But during rotations, if you don't know your ****, your attending/resident will make sure you KNOW you don't know your **** (or so i've heard, eg. surgery core).

I agree however that the 1st 2 years are alot of random facts (ESPECIALLY 1st year) and you can't figure out how to relate things. But basic sciences have been and always will be the foundation to clinicals.

Also don't forget 3rd and 4th years are where you "apply" the knowledge from basics. Alot of anatomy will come back in surgery, ALOT of biochem will come back in pharmacology, and some parts of histology will come back in pathology. There is no escape and i highly recommend you recognize the thing you're doing wrong right now, and rectify it. Residency, the match, rotations are way off.

I'd say Anesthesia is not uber uber competitve at this time. It will be in the years to come. Our school had good university matches this year but the students who matched also had 95+/95+. Also, our clinicals are in the states, which isn't the case for an IMG from India. (On the plus side, you wouldn't have visa issues). So try and manage electives in anesthesia if possible for USCE sake.

Hope this helps !

P.S. Dermatology is one of the MOST competitive fields overall. Anesthesia isn't as hard to get into. Yet.

 

[Speculatrix]

It sounds like you want something for nothing, to avoid entropy and go the easy way out on your life? On the other hand, you can't even pass a single anatomy exam? Fortunately you've discovered that life doesn't work that way and there is no way to make a quick buck. To place the blame on your foreign school and how "hard" it is is the wrong course of action. If you can "pass" through influence, do those (crappy) exams still mean anything? You are doing a disservice to your patients and future career if you ignore yourself in the whole equation. You haven't taken any responsibility for your current state of affairs. All that biochem you couldn't learn the first time around? That's going to be on your boards, and all that time you think you "saved" going abroad directly after high school will have gone to waste. Also, as for your misconception about the clinical years, I spent a lot more time intensely learning in them than I did in first and second year [and yes, I read all of Robbins, etc., as a US medical student]. I fear you may become a washed out resident (if you make it that far) because your knowledge base was grossly insufficient. It is difficult to acknowledge that you are the cause of your own misery right now, but the moment you realize this you will be on the upward path to success. You need to realize that you are extremely lucky to have a medical school spot: the average US MS-1 is a whole lot more mature and intelligent than you are, and the average foreign student at a government-backed institution probably devoted months of nonstop study to get where you are. You can't rest on your past laurels, and the world of medicine is a constant beatdown anywhere you go, for many years to come. If I were you, I would work honestly within the confines of your system. Although your goal is the USMLE, you should earnestly learn the material as it's (supposed to be) presented. If I went to med school in Europe, I wouldn't bitch about learning body parts in Latin and I'd change the way I think to convince myself that this was important. The fact is, you have no idea what's taught at US schools and what isn't, and Kaplan isn't going to answer that for you. As such, I think you should consider hiring an upper level tutor to help you navigate through your Indian-system classes and forget about the fact that you can just pass because you knew the right people.

What makes you think you have ADHD? It would seem you did well in high school. A pill will not solve your problems. I did a simple google search, and it seems methylphenidate is available in India under the brand name "addwize" (Indians seem to pick the worst names for generic drugs). You may certainly have ADHD, but to jump to that conclusion is just further externalizing the blame for your current state. It will take a lot of maturity to have a heart-to-heart with yourself but you need to do it.

 

[GotNoGame]

Well, perhaps you should consult a private physician (someone not working at your school)? Or when you go back to the US during your break, you could get in touch with your local doctor there.

Unfortunately, Anesthesia is quite hard, but it is still possible. You just need to have excellent MLE scores (usually above 235+) along with US clinical experience (rotations/electives) and research publications. I think it might be more ideal to first finish your post-graduate training/residency in Anesthesiology where ever you're studying and then apply to the US. You do stand a better chance that way. Most of the IMGs I've known who've gotten into competitive residencies have done this (including my IMG uncle who matched into Orthopedic surgery last year!) Nevertheless, it takes a loooong time because once you're done with your training, you still have to build up your CV by doing research at an American institution and making more contacts. So the first thing you should worry about is finishing up with med school, rocking the MLEs, and then doing some electives during your last year of medical school. You can worry about research a little later.

And yes you're right. You don't have to like every course in medical school. I hate some of them (Pathology comes to my mind.) But you do have to make an effort to like them 'cause that's the only way you'll force yourself to sit and study. And it's worse with medicine since each course seems quite vast and never-ending. I don't know how it works at your school, but yes in general, the preclinical years are supposed to be the hardest (like you said, it's 'cause of the blunt memorizing and regurgitating material on the test.) While it doesn't get any easier, it does get a lot more interesting and that should motivate you.

It's the same at my school, except the first 3 years are a nightmare (We've had so many students who either dropped out or didn't make it) and I hear it's still hard in the clinical years, but not as many people fail as they do in the preclinical years.

Good luck and I hope everything works out for the best!

That sounds like quite a bumpy road, congrats to you uncle for overcoming such a difficult obstacle! As for getting a 235 or more, does that have a co-relation to MCAT scores?

I know a person who only made 80 (as their first score) which is pretty low IMO; he went to the same school I got to and he matched Anesthesia (though not in a "nice" hospital) Thanks :]!

Whoever told you that is obviously confusing rotations with residency. Remember, 3rd and 4th years are ALSO about taking exams like Step 2 CK which ALSO include tons of "memorizing and regurgitating". Atleast in college exams, the agony is over within 3 hours. The step is a 8 freakin long hour test, where you need to maintain a 100% level of concentration. Residency well, you work, mostly. The workings hours there can vary tremendously depending on what year you're in and what field. But during rotations, if you don't know your ****, your attending/resident will make sure you KNOW you don't know your **** (or so i've heard, eg. surgery core).

I agree however that the 1st 2 years are alot of random facts (ESPECIALLY 1st year) and you can't figure out how to relate things. But basic sciences have been and always will be the foundation to clinicals.

Also don't forget 3rd and 4th years are where you "apply" the knowledge from basics. Alot of anatomy will come back in surgery, ALOT of biochem will come back in pharmacology, and some parts of histology will come back in pathology. There is no escape and i highly recommend you recognize the thing you're doing wrong right now, and rectify it. Residency, the match, rotations are way off.

I'd say Anesthesia is not uber uber competitve at this time. It will be in the years to come. Our school had good university matches this year but the students who matched also had 95+/95+. Also, our clinicals are in the states, which isn't the case for an IMG from India. (On the plus side, you wouldn't have visa issues). So try and manage electives in anesthesia if possible for USCE sake.

Hope this helps !

P.S. Dermatology is one of the MOST competitive fields overall. Anesthesia isn't as hard to get into. Yet.

You're so right about the random facts not connecting, it drives me crazy. And superiors here will be even more brutal than in the states because there really aren't "rules" to keep them from doing anything they want (throwing stuff at you, hitting you, etc) lets just hope we can avoid that.

But what about Obama's healthcare plan? Isn't it supposed to increase GP pay? Wouldn't that mean that less people will specialize? Because apparently the specialist pay is going to decrease.

It sounds like you want something for nothing, to avoid entropy and go the easy way out on your life? On the other hand, you can't even pass a single anatomy exam? Fortunately you've discovered that life doesn't work that way and there is no way to make a quick buck. To place the blame on your foreign school and how "hard" it is is the wrong course of action. If you can "pass" through influence, do those (crappy) exams still mean anything? You are doing a disservice to your patients and future career if you ignore yourself in the whole equation. You haven't taken any responsibility for your current state of affairs. All that biochem you couldn't learn the first time around? That's going to be on your boards, and all that time you think you "saved" going abroad directly after high school will have gone to waste. Also, as for your misconception about the clinical years, I spent a lot more time intensely learning in them than I did in first and second year [and yes, I read all of Robbins, etc., as a US medical student]. I fear you may become a washed out resident (if you make it that far) because your knowledge base was grossly insufficient. It is difficult to acknowledge that you are the cause of your own misery right now, but the moment you realize this you will be on the upward path to success. You need to realize that you are extremely lucky to have a medical school spot: the average US MS-1 is a whole lot more mature and intelligent than you are, and the average foreign student at a government-backed institution probably devoted months of nonstop study to get where you are. You can't rest on your past laurels, and the world of medicine is a constant beatdown anywhere you go, for many years to come. If I were you, I would work honestly within the confines of your system. Although your goal is the USMLE, you should earnestly learn the material as it's (supposed to be) presented. If I went to med school in Europe, I wouldn't bitch about learning body parts in Latin and I'd change the way I think to convince myself that this was important. The fact is, you have no idea what's taught at US schools and what isn't, and Kaplan isn't going to answer that for you. As such, I think you should consider hiring an upper level tutor to help you navigate through your Indian-system classes and forget about the fact that you can just pass because you knew the right people.

What makes you think you have ADHD? It would seem you did well in high school. A pill will not solve your problems. I did a simple google search, and it seems methylphenidate is available in India under the brand name "addwize" (Indians seem to pick the worst names for generic drugs). You may certainly have ADHD, but to jump to that conclusion is just further externalizing the blame for your current state. It will take a lot of maturity to have a heart-to-heart with yourself but you need to do it.

 

[GotNoGame]

Well, perhaps you should consult a private physician (someone not working at your school)? Or when you go back to the US during your break, you could get in touch with your local doctor there.

Unfortunately, Anesthesia is quite hard, but it is still possible. You just need to have excellent MLE scores (usually above 235+) along with US clinical experience (rotations/electives) and research publications. I think it might be more ideal to first finish your post-graduate training/residency in Anesthesiology where ever you're studying and then apply to the US. You do stand a better chance that way. Most of the IMGs I've known who've gotten into competitive residencies have done this (including my IMG uncle who matched into Orthopedic surgery last year!) Nevertheless, it takes a loooong time because once you're done with your training, you still have to build up your CV by doing research at an American institution and making more contacts. So the first thing you should worry about is finishing up with med school, rocking the MLEs, and then doing some electives during your last year of medical school. You can worry about research a little later.

And yes you're right. You don't have to like every course in medical school. I hate some of them (Pathology comes to my mind.) But you do have to make an effort to like them 'cause that's the only way you'll force yourself to sit and study. And it's worse with medicine since each course seems quite vast and never-ending. I don't know how it works at your school, but yes in general, the preclinical years are supposed to be the hardest (like you said, it's 'cause of the blunt memorizing and regurgitating material on the test.) While it doesn't get any easier, it does get a lot more interesting and that should motivate you.

It's the same at my school, except the first 3 years are a nightmare (We've had so many students who either dropped out or didn't make it) and I hear it's still hard in the clinical years, but not as many people fail as they do in the preclinical years.

Good luck and I hope everything works out for the best!

That sounds like quite a bumpy road, congrats to you uncle for overcoming such a difficult obstacle! As for getting a 235 or more, does that have a co-relation to MCAT scores?

I know a person who only made 80 (as their first score) which is pretty low IMO; he went to the same school I got to and he matched Anesthesia (though not in a "nice" hospital) Thanks :]!

Whoever told you that is obviously confusing rotations with residency. Remember, 3rd and 4th years are ALSO about taking exams like Step 2 CK which ALSO include tons of "memorizing and regurgitating". Atleast in college exams, the agony is over within 3 hours. The step is a 8 freakin long hour test, where you need to maintain a 100% level of concentration. Residency well, you work, mostly. The workings hours there can vary tremendously depending on what year you're in and what field. But during rotations, if you don't know your ****, your attending/resident will make sure you KNOW you don't know your **** (or so i've heard, eg. surgery core).

I agree however that the 1st 2 years are alot of random facts (ESPECIALLY 1st year) and you can't figure out how to relate things. But basic sciences have been and always will be the foundation to clinicals.

Also don't forget 3rd and 4th years are where you "apply" the knowledge from basics. Alot of anatomy will come back in surgery, ALOT of biochem will come back in pharmacology, and some parts of histology will come back in pathology. There is no escape and i highly recommend you recognize the thing you're doing wrong right now, and rectify it. Residency, the match, rotations are way off.

I'd say Anesthesia is not uber uber competitve at this time. It will be in the years to come. Our school had good university matches this year but the students who matched also had 95+/95+. Also, our clinicals are in the states, which isn't the case for an IMG from India. (On the plus side, you wouldn't have visa issues). So try and manage electives in anesthesia if possible for USCE sake.

Hope this helps !

P.S. Dermatology is one of the MOST competitive fields overall. Anesthesia isn't as hard to get into. Yet.

You're so right about the random facts not connecting, it drives me crazy. And superiors here will be even more brutal than in the states because there really aren't "rules" to keep them from doing anything they want (throwing stuff at you, hitting you, etc) lets just hope we can avoid that.

But what about Obama's healthcare plan? Isn't it supposed to increase GP pay? Wouldn't that mean that less people will specialize? Because apparently the specialist pay is going to decrease.

It sounds like you want something for nothing, to avoid entropy and go the easy way out on your life? On the other hand, you can't even pass a single anatomy exam? Fortunately you've discovered that life doesn't work that way and there is no way to make a quick buck. To place the blame on your foreign school and how "hard" it is is the wrong course of action. If you can "pass" through influence, do those (crappy) exams still mean anything? You are doing a disservice to your patients and future career if you ignore yourself in the whole equation. You haven't taken any responsibility for your current state of affairs. All that biochem you couldn't learn the first time around? That's going to be on your boards, and all that time you think you "saved" going abroad directly after high school will have gone to waste. Also, as for your misconception about the clinical years, I spent a lot more time intensely learning in them than I did in first and second year [and yes, I read all of Robbins, etc., as a US medical student]. I fear you may become a washed out resident (if you make it that far) because your knowledge base was grossly insufficient. It is difficult to acknowledge that you are the cause of your own misery right now, but the moment you realize this you will be on the upward path to success. You need to realize that you are extremely lucky to have a medical school spot: the average US MS-1 is a whole lot more mature and intelligent than you are, and the average foreign student at a government-backed institution probably devoted months of nonstop study to get where you are. You can't rest on your past laurels, and the world of medicine is a constant beatdown anywhere you go, for many years to come. If I were you, I would work honestly within the confines of your system. Although your goal is the USMLE, you should earnestly learn the material as it's (supposed to be) presented. If I went to med school in Europe, I wouldn't bitch about learning body parts in Latin and I'd change the way I think to convince myself that this was important. The fact is, you have no idea what's taught at US schools and what isn't, and Kaplan isn't going to answer that for you. As such, I think you should consider hiring an upper level tutor to help you navigate through your Indian-system classes and forget about the fact that you can just pass because you knew the right people.

What makes you think you have ADHD? It would seem you did well in high school. A pill will not solve your problems. I did a simple google search, and it seems methylphenidate is available in India under the brand name "addwize" (Indians seem to pick the worst names for generic drugs). You may certainly have ADHD, but to jump to that conclusion is just further externalizing the blame for your current state. It will take a lot of maturity to have a heart-to-heart with yourself but you need to do it.

By no means was I saying that US Med students are lazy or "inferior" but perhaps you took it the wrong way.

As for getting into med school at this age, you're right, I'm incredibly lucky to have the proper connections and the opportunity to join this amazing career path. You're also right about finding out that there's no way to make a quick buck (unless you rob a bank) and when I realized that, it hit me like a ton of bricks. Suddenly life seems incredibly hard and I now I see that high school was just one big joke which was just put there to waste time and not teach us any "lifeskills."


I already have a tutor who said his own two kids made 90+ and that he will personally prepare me using First Aid and High Yield (if those are any good) Thanks!

 

[shreypete]

Yes, FA covers almost 65-70% of the stuff on USMLEs but HY, Goljan's RR, BRS will help you to understand the stuff better. The course material from Kaplan and a few other companies is also quite good as they teach you from the beginning (which is why they require you to spend at least 2-3 months studying their material well.)

In the end, you have to practice tons and tons of USMLE questions as that's the only way you can get a feel for the exam questions. So the one and only best thing you can do now is not to worry too much about the MLE. Just focus on trying to understand as much stuff as you can (such that you'll be able to recollect it when you come across it later on the MLE.)

Regarding your friend who made it into anesthesia, when exactly was this? Anesthesia wasn't very competitive in the beginning but it's certainly getting tougher by the year (as it's quite an attractive field with great pay and reasonable working hours.)

Well, high school in America is a joke (compared to those in European or Asian countries) but it all depends on what sort of courses you took. If you did lots of college level courses, then it should be easier to transition into a 6 year medical program. The honors and regular courses are practically worthless (but they help you get a higher GPA lol.)

My sister did 2 rotations: one in Sri Lanka and one in India and she told me that the system was a bit disorganized there. But apparently, the students have a very strong foundation in their basic theory and this is why they can cope better when they move to other countries for higher education (residency, fellowship etc.) And it's also quite ridiculous how so many of these guys get nothing less than a 99 on all 3 steps! But in all fairness, I guess that's 'cause they get a lot more time to study (in their house residency year I suppose?) But again, their medical schools don't prepare them for USMLEs...so may be it's a tie. I'm not sure.

 

[GotNoGame]

Yes, FA covers almost 65-70% of the stuff on USMLEs but HY, Goljan's RR, BRS will help you to understand the stuff better. The course material from Kaplan and a few other companies is also quite good as they teach you from the beginning (which is why they require you to spend at least 2-3 months studying their material well.)

In the end, you have to practice tons and tons of USMLE questions as that's the only way you can get a feel for the exam questions. So the one and only best thing you can do now is not to worry too much about the MLE. Just focus on trying to understand as much stuff as you can (such that you'll be able to recollect it when you come across it later on the MLE.)

Regarding your friend who made it into anesthesia, when exactly was this? Anesthesia wasn't very competitive in the beginning but it's certainly getting tougher by the year (as it's quite an attractive field with great pay and reasonable working hours.)

Well, high school in America is a joke (compared to those in European or Asian countries) but it all depends on what sort of courses you took. If you did lots of college level courses, then it should be easier to transition into a 6 year medical program. The honors and regular courses are practically worthless (but they help you get a higher GPA lol.)

My sister did 2 rotations: one in Sri Lanka and one in India and she told me that the system was a bit disorganized there. But apparently, the students have a very strong foundation in their basic theory and this is why they can cope better when they move to other countries for higher education (residency, fellowship etc.) And it's also quite ridiculous how so many of these guys get nothing less than a 99 on all 3 steps! But in all fairness, I guess that's 'cause they get a lot more time to study (in their house residency year I suppose?) But again, their medical schools don't prepare them for USMLEs...so may be it's a tie. I'm not sure.

Your sister sounds very similar to all the student's I've met here! Unlike us Americans, they don't simply use "the system sucks" as an excuse for their poor academic record but instead, they say the system sucks WHILE pulling excellent grades, props to your sis for being lucky enough to go to school there (seriously, crazy work ethic in those students)

See the bad thing about America is that it gives us TOO many choices. Choices on who we have sex with, choices on doing the right thing or the wrong thing. The idea is good but it is flawed due the human nature of trying to find the "easy way out." What I'm saying is, I was one of those people who didn't see any need to take any challenging AP courses in High School and when I finally joined one, I quit after the first six weeks because I didn't want to do the work. Though it's probably a pitiful excuse, I can say that my parents pretty much raised me with the 100% reward for 10% work mentality, so I never had the incentive to challenge myself.

Now you're probably thinking "then why the hell choose Med?" Well that's because I always knew I could do it given that I put in the time and effort; I convinced myself that I could enter Medical School and tackle it, how difficult could it really be right? I was good at Science and always liked watching Discovery Health, so why not? A Noble profession with excellent outlook and good pay (which I've realized is not so good anymore)

As for my friend in Anesthesia, he probably matched last year or so. I have no idea how he did and I suspect he went through "unofficial" channels to do so, but as I've learned in India, you HAVE to be aggressive sometimes.


Completely off-topic but, I've been watching a lot of Bloomberg and reading up on the internet lately, and it seems like Investment Banking is the next "big thing" if you want to make a lot of cash. I've kind of always been interested in Finance (since it involves money, and what Indian kid doesn't like money?) but I didn't get into a top 20 school so would it be possible to get in through networking? Could anyone comment on the field?



P.S. No I didn't get into Medicine for the money ALONE, but obviously, like 90% of Doctors, it was a "big motivator." Unfortunately, all the high horse people will attack me now.

 

[shreypete]

LOL well as long as you put in the "alone" part in caps, you'll be safe from the rest of the defenders on SDN.

I think you misunderstood me. My sister did study medicine in the US but she just did two of her rotations or rather electives in Asia (and 3 in Europe.) What I told you was the observation she made when she visited India and Sri Lanka.

p.s. I don't think having too many choices is a bad thing. I mean yes, it becomes a whole lot harder in choosing what you want to do in the end, but at least you have that choice to start with and you're be able to channel more of your energy in doing something that you like rather than doing something that you were forced to do or did it 'cause the rest of the kids did it. My friends from Jordan and Iran tell me how in their country, everyone is out to become a doctor or a lawyer. They really don't have many other choices (and if they do choose it, then that career path is frowned upon and they're seen as a bit more inferior to the rest of the "smart" kids ie. those that are studying medicine, law etc.) So I think not having a wide variety of choices can be both suffocating and depressing. On the other hand, having too many choices can be hard if you're an indecisive person to start with or if you lack the determination it takes to do something that you might/might not like.