ANOTHER Bill up for CRNAs to run wild in NY

[turnupthegas]

I suppose these bills are just going to keep coming. We mind as well just have a schpiel saved on our computers/phones to copy and send quickly. Show some support to your NY comrades.

American Society of Anesthesiologists | Grassroots Network

On a side note. There must be some CRNA forum where as soon as these things get posted they immediately jump in spew some bull****. Ol' white hair rural CRNA out of the woodworks with his anecdotal story and the same BS studies that don't mean jack. The comments on the ASA Facebook page are nauseating. The delusion is real. Is the first class in CRNA school focused on how "we are so great and equal"?

https://www.facebook.com/AmericanSocietyofAnesthesiologists/

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[DrCommonSense]

I suppose these bills are just going to keep coming. We mind as well just have a schpiel saved on our computers/phones to copy and send quickly. Show some support to your NY comrades.

American Society of Anesthesiologists | Grassroots Network

On a side note. There must be some CRNA forum where as soon as these things get posted they immediately jump in spew some bull****. Ol' white hair rural CRNA out of the woodworks with his anecdotal story and the same BS studies that don't mean jack. The comments on the ASA Facebook page are nauseating. The delusion is real. Is the first class in CRNA school focused on how "we are so great and equal"?

The American Society of Anesthesiologists (ASA)

CRNAs are militant as hell and won't back down. This war will continue for the rest of our lifetimes.

A large amount of this problem is due to older anesthesiologists who sold out the profession by:

A) Allowing nurses INSTEAD OF PAs (AAs) be the "assistant" to the Anesthesiologist
B) Allowing CRNAs to do spinals, epidurals, lines, etc so they could sit in the coffee break room while running 4 ORs to make the big dollars whereby the Anesthesiologist is perceived as doing nothing.
C) Selling out groups to AMCs that will promote CRNAs as a "cheaper" alternative

Why the F did Anesthesiologist ever let CRNAs do spinals, epidurals, lines, etc? CRNAs should basically only be allowed to intubate and sit in the room.

At ANY place I worked the ACT model, CRNAs did NOT do epidurals/spinals and lines. That was done ONLY by the DOCTORS. This is NOT true for MANY places.

Older Anesthesiologists have basically given up all the B+B cases to the CRNAs (95% of cases) and its going to be a fight to prevent them from taking these cases while lowering the Anesthesiologist salaries.

Why would they care though? They will retire in 5 to 10 years with a boatload of cash as a result of this stuff.

Its the younger generation that is going to get screwed.

 

[turnupthegas]

I agree. Maybe let them intubate while I push the drugs and even then MAYBE. At my shop, they basically only do endoscopy and we still have to bail them out.

This whole midlevel thing chaps my ass. The inferiority complex is real. I hear PA's and NP's talking about when they went to "medical school" (even podiatrists). They know they didn't. WE DEFINITELY KNOW THEY DIDN'T. Why even front? Know your role and do what I tell you to do, amirite?

We need ASA with some giant plums and a titanium spine.

 

[turnupthegas]

On a side note, you know what pisses me off. The PA's/NP's have access to the MD parking lot and lounge. NOT THE RESIDENTS.

 

[DrCommonSense]

I agree. Maybe let them intubate while I push the drugs and even then MAYBE. At my shop, they basically only do endoscopy and we still have to bail them out.

This whole midlevel thing chaps my ass. The inferiority complex is real. I hear PA's and NP's talking about when they went to "medical school" (even podiatrists). They know they didn't. WE DEFINITELY KNOW THEY DIDN'T. Why even front? Know your role and do what I tell you to do, amirite?

We need ASA with some giant plums and a titanium spine.

Its not enough for ASA or ASAPAC

All ACT models should NOT allow CRNAs to do spinals/epidurals/lines/etc so that they CANT be looked as "equivalent".

However, since most older Anesthesiologists are greedy and don't want to have to do all this stuff, CRNAs will be looked upon as "equivalent" because they can "do everything general anesthesiologists do" to the layperson. Its hard to argue differently either by saying "we have more education".

It will be hard to argue they aren't equivalent when they can literally do EVERYTHING that general anesthesiologists do for their cases.

I mean what do anesthesiologists PHYSICALLY do that CRNAs dont?

They have CRNAs doing spinals/epidurals/lines/regional/etc?

The only thing I can think of is TEE for cardiac anesthesiologists.

 

[deleted171991]

They shouldn't have been allowed to do anything an ICU nurse wouldn't. Meaning no procedures (including no intubations), nothing advanced, just drug titration according to physician orders/protocols. Literally stool sitting, nursing and anesthetic/pressor titration. And I bet that's how it started at first, back in the ether era.

Nurses have been making more and more incursions into physician territory for decades, with physicians mostly sitting on the sidelines (with the mentality of "it won't affect my generation so it's not my fight"). Remember the scandal with the "nurse's stethoscope"? This is just a part of the walmartization of medicine.

The genie is out of the bottle. Good luck! It's just a matter of time now. At this point, anybody trying to piss against the wind will only get soaked in urine.

 

[anbuitachi]

pretty sure in 50 years the IM , anesthesiology will be taken over by nurses. the only fields that will take a while will be the procedure heavy ones like surgery. then another 100 years later nursing assistants will take over. and 200 years later nursing assistant assistants will take over.
It's time we go on the attack instead of defense. There will always be new bills CRNAs will try to push thru to get us. And we will be spending our time fighting those bills. How about we get some of our own bills going?

 

[bobtheweazel]

I agree. Maybe let them intubate while I push the drugs and even then MAYBE. At my shop, they basically only do endoscopy and we still have to bail them out.

This whole midlevel thing chaps my ass. The inferiority complex is real. I hear PA's and NP's talking about when they went to "medical school" (even podiatrists). They know they didn't. WE DEFINITELY KNOW THEY DIDN'T. Why even front? Know your role and do what I tell you to do, amirite?

We need ASA with some giant plums and a titanium spine.

Don't lump podiatrists in with PAs and NPs. Our education and training is completely different from theirs.

Sent from my Pixel using SDN mobile

 

[Psai]

Don't lump podiatrists in with PAs and NPs. Our education and training is completely different from theirs.

Sent from my Pixel using SDN mobile

Still isn't medical school.

 

[dhb]

Don't lump podiatrists in with PAs and NPs. Our education and training is completely different from theirs.

Sent from my Pixel using SDN mobile

That's what the CRNAs say of the AAs isn't it?

 

[vm26]

CRNAs are militant as hell and won't back down. This war will continue for the rest of our lifetimes.

I would think that their militancy/organization partially likely stems from their background of a strong RN union...Are CRNA's (or other mid-levels) allowed to be part of an union?

 

[anbuitachi]

pretty sure they are....
doctors are allowed to unionize too i thought. there are resident unions in some places

 

[acidbase1]

Geez man. I'm a month from graduation and this is scary/exhausting. I LOVE my job and couldn't picture myself in any other specialty, however, it's stuff like this that makes me wish I had gone with something else.

They are so painfully persistent I don't see anyway to stop them

 

[deleted126335]

Geez man. I'm a month from graduation and this is scary/exhausting. I LOVE my job and couldn't picture myself in any other specialty, however, it's stuff like this that makes me wish I had gone with something else.

They are so painfully persistent I don't see anyway to stop them

You love the work. Most of us do too. Not so much our jobs. Fixed it for you.

 

[acidbase1]

Pretty clever

 

[GravelRider]

pretty sure they are....
doctors are allowed to unionize too i thought. there are resident unions in some places

All employees have the right to form unions for the purpose of collective bargaining...physicians included.

 

[Strider_91]

Yet another area baby boomer greed has made America a worse place then they got it. They will find a way to blame gen x and the millenials tho as they go on Medicare and live until 100 emptying social security that won't exist for us.

 

[DaTruMD]

Sad!

 

[vm26]

Geez man. I'm a month from graduation and this is scary/exhausting. I LOVE my job and couldn't picture myself in any other specialty, however, it's stuff like this that makes me wish I had gone with something else.

They are so painfully persistent I don't see anyway to stop them

It helps to have the wind at your back--RNs have the reputation of being nurturing, selfless, compassionate providers who care about patients while there's a chunk of the general public/media etc that views MDs as greedy bloods*ckers that only care about money.

I'm in a different specialty that took major hits during my training. After fellowship I graduated in an abysmal job market and took a bad job in an horrible town. Was so bad it forced me to do a 2nd fellowship, which led to my current job (which is great) in a pretty nice location. Focus on what you can control and do the best you can. It's hard not to stress about this type of crap but these things are beyond your control.

 

[Planktonmd]

They shouldn't have been allowed to do anything an ICU nurse wouldn't. Meaning no procedures (including no intubations), nothing advanced, just drug titration according to physician orders/protocols. Literally stool sitting, nursing and anesthetic/pressor titration. And I bet that's how it started at first, back in the ether era.

Nurses have been making more and more incursions into physician territory for decades, with physicians mostly sitting on the sidelines (with the mentality of "it won't affect my generation so it's not my fight"). Remember the scandal with the "nurse's stethoscope"? This is just a part of the walmartization of medicine.

The genie is out of the bottle. Good luck! It's just a matter of time now. At this point, anybody trying to piss against the wind will only get soaked in urine.

Unfortunately the story of CRNAs in the U.S. did not start by Anesthesiologists allowing them to do things, it started by nurses working directly with surgeons and administering anesthetics about a century ago.
From this group of nurses the "nurse anesthetist" category emerged and it's not until later that physicians specializing in anesthesiology entered the game. By that time the nurse anesthetist was there to stay.
This is not what happened in Europe where the specialty of anesthesiology started and continued to be practiced by physicians and where nurse anesthetists, if they existed, they are simply nurses helping the doctors.

 

[Planktonmd]

pretty sure they are....
doctors are allowed to unionize too i thought. there are resident unions in some places

You are allowed to unionize only if you are in an employed position, you can't unionize if you own your own private practice and contract with hospitals.

 

[InfinitiPSI]

It helps to have the wind at your back--RNs have the reputation of being nurturing, selfless, compassionate providers who care about patients while there's a chunk of the general public/media etc that views MDs as greedy bloods*ckers that only care about money.

I'm in a different specialty that took major hits during my training. After fellowship I graduated in an abysmal job market and took a bad job in an horrible town. Was so bad it forced me to do a 2nd fellowship, which led to my current job (which is great) in a pretty nice location. Focus on what you can control and do the best you can. It's hard not to stress about this type of crap but these things are beyond your control.

What specialty are you referring too, and which fellowships? I am just curious. I doubt it will effect your online anonymity.

 

[acidbase1]

Unfortunately the story of CRNAs in the U.S. did not start by Anesthesiologists allowing them to do things, it started by nurses working directly with surgeons and administering anesthetics about a century ago.
From this group of nurses the "nurse anesthetist" category emerged and it's not until later that physicians specializing in anesthesiology entered the game. By that time the nurse anesthetist was there to stay.
This is not what happened in Europe where the specialty of anesthesiology started and continued to be practiced by physicians and where nurse anesthetists, if they existed, they are simply nurses helping the doctors.

See I think this argument is a joke. Who cares what happened 200 years ago? All the major advancements in the field have been MD driven. All this CRNA bs came about when we became lazy and complacent and now we are war. We dug our own graves. Spare me the ether droplet garbage

 

[vm26]

What specialty are you referring too, and which fellowships? I am just curious. I doubt it will effect your online anonymity.

Radiology...fellowships were both 1 year in length. These days just about everyone does a single fellowship with the vast majority being 1 year in length (some neuroradiology/IR fellowships are 2 years). When the market was at its peak (late 90 to about 2006/7), people were getting great offers right out of residency so many skipped fellowships altogether

 

[leaverus]

Why the F did Anesthesiologist ever let CRNAs do spinals, epidurals, lines, etc?

because they were taught those things in crna school? it starts in the academic centers - if they stop teaching them spinals, epidurals, lines, etc then they can't do them out in the real world. unfortunately that's unlikely to change

 

[acidbase1]

Problem is everyone is on the take. The two main groups here train SRNAs and reep the financial benefits. Nobody wants to put their money where their mouth is...