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Another D.O. vs M.D. "differences" argument...but not really....

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by Vash311, Mar 25, 2002.

  1. Vash311

    Vash311 Senior Member

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    Aight, short and simple...

    Is there really a difference between D.O.'s and M.D.'s (minus OMM, the different names, admission standards in schools, low numbers of osteopathic residencies, blah, blah and all the other very general/specific differences that everyone likes to toss around)?

    Answer "yes", "no", or in paragraph format.Limit discussion to 256 words and one participle please. Points will be dedected for mentions of, but not limited to,the above exclusions and any bashing that occurs towards candidates of either degrees.Please indicate, as well, whether you are a candidate for the D.O. degree or the M.D. degree. Thank you.

    Nema, D.O.-wannabe, Ph.D.-wannabe
    Associate Professor
    Department of Pointless Medical Degree Arguments
    DUM College of Some Kind of Medical Program
    Somewhere, FL
     
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  3. mpp

    mpp SDN Moderator
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  4. Fenrez

    Fenrez AT Stills worst nightmare

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  5. Shark

    Shark Member

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    Yes, but only at the pre-med levels and during the first two years. True, there are some hospitals that will never accept DO's as equals but that's just politics. Research for yourself, DO's use real cadavers, take biochemistry, physiology, pharm etc. just like our Allopathic counterparts. The only difference really is that the overall MCAT average in the past was 1-3 pts. lower than Allopathic schools. This is due many times to Osteopathic students being older and having had other careers first. Some say it makes you a more well-rounded person/doctor! Decide for yourself, Does a slightly lower MCAT average (only true in some cases) really mean your not a good Doc? I love being a DO! It's kinda neat having a little extra training!!
    Take it for what it's worth. Whichever route you choose, be secure with it so there are no more conversations about this!
     
  6. themedic

    themedic Junior Member

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    Yes, there are underlying differences. DO's approach medicine and patient care with a different philosophy than their MD counterparts. Osteopathy embraces holistic and preventative care and seeks to utilize the body's natural healing tendancies. OMM isn't the whole story, dig deeper and you'll find there's so much more.

    -themedic
    Touro University College of Osteopathic Medicine
    Class of 2006
     
  7. nycom@juno.com

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    vash311:

    Answer: NO.
     
  8. jhug

    jhug 1K Member

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    Compare the difference to those between a honda and an acura (an analogy that i was told) Same engine, similar bodies, same gas mileage/warranty. One may have an additional little extra- power windows or heated seats-- the other may be looked at as more of a luxury car. Some may take real pride in saying they own an acura, just as some may take real pride in saying they own a honda. Some may even dispute their differences and their perks and the image one has over the other. In the end the difference--i guess-- lies in the owner.
     
  9. Detroit Mick

    Detroit Mick The Supinator

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    No difference
     
  10. JPFL75

    JPFL75 Member

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    absofrigginlutely not
     
  11. PerfectBlue

    PerfectBlue New Member

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    Nema:
    I have lost count of the number of times we have personally had this conversation. So now you resort to cluttering up message boards with the exact same question! So what...maybe a few of us will have a slightly harder time getting into specialty-based residency programs. The work you put into your respective medical program will undoubtedly give you the desired outcome. As for differences between the DO and the MD, yes they do exist. If they didn't, why would a separate program exist in the first place? If osteopathic physicians have managed to stay in existence for over 100 years while innervating virtually every field of medicine (including forensic pathology) and receiving prestigious appointments in various areas of society (Surgeon General of the United States), then they must be doing something right! Am I wrong? Anyhow, I hope school is going well, and I sincerely hope you have finally put to rest the whole equality issue. It's getting really tired!

    Sincerely,

    Your somewhat-irritated-and-annoyed-little-brother
     
  12. Aloha Kid

    Aloha Kid Senior Member

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    Yes there's a difference and it's just not OMM. Can't tell you though because I don't want to give away top secret info.
     
  13. Arch Guillotti

    Arch Guillotti Senior Member
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    A DO was surgeon general of the army, not the United States.
     
  14. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Banned
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    NO

    Any difference that there is really comes from the person, not the letters.

    OMM, sure. Different.

    The way you approach a patient can be taught in school, but needs to be put into action by the INDIVIDUAL physician.

    JPH
    PCOM Class of 2006
     
  15. hosskp1

    hosskp1 Senior Member

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    There is no really difference, except our schools are tougher, harder, more time commitment and we have tougher licensing exams. We suffer more burnout, and that is why so many go into primary care. We are more prepared to deal with crap, friction, adversity, aand this makes us tougher doctors.
     
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  17. hosskp1

    hosskp1 Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Arch Guillotti:
    <strong>A DO was surgeon general of the army, not the United States.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">let me correct you-- General Blanck was the surgeon general of the United States Army. I would not be so cavalier about how use that-- it really pisses soldiers off when civilians do that-- it is very disrespectful. Also,, it takes a hell of a lot more to be the SG of the Army than the surgeon general of the US (which is appointed by the President).
     
  18. Slingblade the Surgeon

    Slingblade the Surgeon Senior Member

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    Too many restrictions on the post
     
  19. Arch Guillotti

    Arch Guillotti Senior Member
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    hosskp1,

    relax a little bit will ya! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />
     
  20. Shark

    Shark Member

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    hosskp1,
    Take it easy dude! I am a DO as well and love being one! However, all medical students go through the same crap the first two years and it's what you make of it from there!!
     
  21. Jersey Girl

    Jersey Girl Member

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    I would like to make a correction to a previous post someone made. They said DO's have a "holistic" approach. No, this is incorrect. DO's have a "wholistic" approach. Big difference here. Holistic refers to the use of drugs which are not FDA regulated, holistic is associated with alternative medicine. DO's do not practice alternative medicine,they are not taught this in medical school!!! "Wholistc" refers to treating the body as a whole, and not reducing a person into their disease. DO's have a "Wholistic" approach, not "holistic" approach to medicine. Be careful with how you write things, you may influence someones opinion in a negative way wrongly.
     
  22. Slingblade the Surgeon

    Slingblade the Surgeon Senior Member

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    Oh crap I think I wrote holistic in my application essay! <img border="0" alt="[Wowie]" title="" src="graemlins/wowie.gif" /> Oh well, I got in anyway. hehehe
     
  23. atropine22

    atropine22 Junior Member

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    hosskp1,

    Are you in the military man? You sound like an air force type of person to me or are you in the navy?
     
  24. thegriffy

    thegriffy New Member

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    A wholistic approach, holistic approach? Whatever, that's just jargon. Do you mean you take a complete history and physical and use all of the findings to make a differntial diagnosis, assesment and plan or do you do something more wholly? Please elaborate, I'm just a confused student of medicine.
     
  25. Dr. MAXY

    Dr. MAXY Senior Member

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    OOOOPS, I think I also wrote Holistic in me personal statement. Oh well, they knew what I meant. Thank Goodness I got in.
     
  26. John DO

    John DO A.T. Still Endowed Chair

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Elaina:
    <strong>I would like to make a correction to a previous post someone made. They said DO's have a "holistic" approach. No, this is incorrect. DO's have a "wholistic" approach. Big difference here. Holistic refers to the use of drugs which are not FDA regulated, holistic is associated with alternative medicine. DO's do not practice alternative medicine,they are not taught this in medical school!!! "Wholistc" refers to treating the body as a whole, and not reducing a person into their disease. DO's have a "Wholistic" approach, not "holistic" approach to medicine. Be careful with how you write things, you may influence someones opinion in a negative way wrongly.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is "wholistic" even a word???? Holistic does NOT refer to the use of unapproved drugs; it refers to the consideration of all aspects of a patient's health: mind, body, and spirit. I learned this in nursing school, undergraduate college, and in medical school. Please refrain from correcting people and offering shaky advice.
     
  27. bobo

    bobo Senior Member

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    Unfortunately, Elaina offers terrible advice.

    From Stedman's:

    holistic: pertaining to the characteristics of holism or h. psychologies

    holism: the principle that an organism, or one of it's actions, is not equal merely to the sum of it's parts but must be perceived studied as a whole. 2.) the appraoch to the study of a psychological phenomenon through the analysis of a phenomenon as a complete entity in itself.

    Wholism ain't in there.

    Now who really believes in the "philosophy"? lol,j/k
     
  28. Shark

    Shark Member

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    Are you kidding me? We all do the same thing when examining a pt. I am a DO and quite frankly I don't do anything different than my fellow MD's. What do you think, the MD's go into the examining room with a mask on so they can only see the small patch of cellulitis and treat it (the disease) only? This attitude is the exact reason ours is a profession that screws its own! Do you really think the old DO grunts in the AOA really care about us? They just don't want to merge things b/c they are so set in their ways. Meanwhile, they make it more and more difficult for newly graduated DO's to go where they want for residency! Stop and think about it!! Who gives a damn what our initials are? We all do rectals the same way don't we??
     
  29. Vash311

    Vash311 Senior Member

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    OK guys, enough's enough

    This thread was really meant to be a joke and not a discussion topic. I put those restrictions on because I just wanted people to realize when you boil away all the little technicalities that we're all MEDICAL students, going to a MEDICAL school, and will eventually become DOCTORS. Thanks for your input, you all receive the grade of A+. <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

    Nema
    D.O. candidate (and damn proud of it!)
    NSU-COM Class of 2006
     
  30. Vash311

    Vash311 Senior Member

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    OK guys, enough's enough

    This thread was really meant to be a joke and not a discussion topic. I put those restrictions on because I just wanted people to realize when you boil away all the little technicalities that we're all MEDICAL students, going to a MEDICAL school, and will eventually become DOCTORS. Thanks for your input, you all receive the grade of A+. <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

    Nema
    D.O. candidate (and damn proud of it!)
    NSU-COM Class of 2006
     
  31. hosskp1

    hosskp1 Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by atropine22:
    <strong>hosskp1,

    Are you in the military man? You sound like an air force type of person to me or are you in the navy?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am not in the Air Farce or a squid-- I am in the US Army and that makes me a soldier. That is just disrespectful.

    Here is something funny-- I am on my sugery rotation and yesterday in the ER some resident asked me if I was in the FP department. I almost knocked out his teeth. I had to be restrained by the residents on my team. Who did this punk this he was?
     
  32. solie

    solie Senior Member

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    hosskp1--
    You actually had to be RESTRAINED from ATTACKING someone who thought you were in FP?? Please tell me you're not serious.
     
  33. PACmatthew

    PACmatthew Senior Member

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    Hey Hoss,

    You are not in the Army at least not yet. So I would be careful how you run your big mouth champ. I don't know many officers who talk trash like you, so my bet is that you are simply a military scholar who is still a wannabe real military officer. And yes, General Blanck was our former surgeon general, but I don't think he would mind someone getting him confused with the surgeon general of the US half as much as he would mind you blowing your steam on this forum. Coming from a real Army medical officer, I can only advise you to stop embarrassing the rest of us who have already proved our heroism. Don't think for a minute that someone can't figure out where you really are and who you are. Then I suppose a phone call to your PMO might help you focus on your medicine a bit more and less on your ego, testosterone level, and one handed silk ties. Grow up boot LT.
     
  34. Shark

    Shark Member

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    Hey Pacmatthew,

    Great post!! Admittedly, I don't know much about the military but I respect the hell out of people who risk their lives to make it a safer world for everyone! Don't think for a minute that this Hoss joker has anyone fooled. My guess is that he just finished signing his military papers and is running to the med bookstore to get ALL of his free books! Just signing on the dotted line doesn't cut it. I am willing to bet that if he gets to a boot camp this attitude of his will be adjusted quite rapidly!! God bless you man!!
     
  35. hosskp1

    hosskp1 Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by PACmatthew:
    <strong>Hey Hoss,

    You are not in the Army at least not yet. So I would be careful how you run your big mouth champ. I don't know many officers who talk trash like you, so my bet is that you are simply a military scholar who is still a wannabe real military officer. And yes, General Blanck was our former surgeon general, but I don't think he would mind someone getting him confused with the surgeon general of the US half as much as he would mind you blowing your steam on this forum. Coming from a real Army medical officer, I can only advise you to stop embarrassing the rest of us who have already proved our heroism. Don't think for a minute that someone can't figure out where you really are and who you are. Then I suppose a phone call to your PMO might help you focus on your medicine a bit more and less on your ego, testosterone level, and one handed silk ties. Grow up boot LT.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are right-- I do have a big ego, a big mouth, a high testosterone level, and aggressive tendencies. I am not however hot headed, and I do not have a temper. In this instance, I was just continuing along with the ridiculousness of this topic. It was for ****s and giggles. So I figured I may as well get really stupid with the people who read this. I suppose people can not tell the difference sometimes between joke and seriousness (me included). I just thought someone would get a laugh out of the whole thing. If you took offense to it-- then I apologize. I am not hot headed and I did not have to be held down by the residents-- not that they could do it anyway. I told them the story and they laughed at it so I thought I would share and embellish. About the the Surgeon general thing-- same thing. These are pointless debates about useless things so I thought I would add some fire to it. I guess I will water down my comments so that people can tell when I am joking better.
     
  36. PACmatthew

    PACmatthew Senior Member

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    Shark,

    Yes, you are exactly right. Old Hoss has probably never seen any real form of combat, or even a military base. If in fact he is prior enlisted, it would shock me because of his attitude. I am starting med school at TCOM this summer, and I am proud to be headed to a school where the president is the former Army Surgeon General. From my conversations with Dr. Blanck, he seems very kind and most assuredly would not be the type to throw a fit if someone confused him accidentally with the US surgeon gen. The title Soldier is earned Hoss! Soldiers have pride through leadership, integrity, and most definitely NOT acting like fools as this pseudosoldier has acted. I am ashamed to have someone amongst my organization like this. And I certainly am going into FP, but I highly doubt anyone will ever want to knock my teeth down my throat because of it. I suppose HOSS would make a good surgeon, because the majority of what he says will then only fall on "anesthetized ears". Go ahead and choke up another response HOSS, but remember, Uncle Sam is watching, and so are your peers.
     
  37. hosskp1

    hosskp1 Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by PACmatthew:
    <strong>Shark,

    Yes, you are exactly right. Old Hoss has probably never seen any real form of combat, or even a military base. If in fact he is prior enlisted, it would shock me because of his attitude. I am starting med school at TCOM this summer, and I am proud to be headed to a school where the president is the former Army Surgeon General. From my conversations with Dr. Blanck, he seems very kind and most assuredly would not be the type to throw a fit if someone confused him accidentally with the US surgeon gen. The title Soldier is earned Hoss! Soldiers have pride through leadership, integrity, and most definitely NOT acting like fools as this pseudosoldier has acted. I am ashamed to have someone amongst my organization like this. And I certainly am going into FP, but I highly doubt anyone will ever want to knock my teeth down my throat because of it. I suppose HOSS would make a good surgeon, because the majority of what he says will then only fall on "anesthetized ears". Go ahead and choke up another response HOSS, but remember, Uncle Sam is watching, and so are your peers.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I appreciate the insight-- thank you. It is nice to know people think so highly of me. In my experience, I think it really is harder to become the surgeon general of the USArmy than the Surgeon general. The SGof the army had to have put in serious time in command and medical duties. The surgeon genral of the united states is a political appointee (Although I really like who the Next Sugeon general is going to be-- finally a good choice.)
    I do not see how you could be a Medical officer already if you are starting medical school this fall. Technically, people who graduated medical school are medical officers and in the medical corps. I think you need to take a break and develop some thicker skin-- It was a joke plain and simple.

    Personally, I do not think you have any Idea about who I am, what I am, or where I am from. I am pleased that you think I am going to be a surgeon-- I am getting that response from many of my attendings and my father as well(who is a doctor). As I have already stated above-- I apologize if you were offended.
     
  38. PACmatthew

    PACmatthew Senior Member

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    Thanks HOSS!

    You made a wise decision to calm down and act less like a surgeon (just a joke). Please just realize that it takes all types to make the world go round. FP's, Surgeons, and my God, even Podiatrists (did I just say that?). And Hoss, I am a PA, the backbone of Army medicine. Most PA's come from being infantry medics and work their way up to being senior medics first. I have been happy being a PA, but now wish to further the ole education. Medical officers are just that, medical. Medical Corps Officers are physicians. And yes, that was a little misleading (not intentional), because usually medical officers are another synonym of military physicians service wide. I usually use the term medical officer because civilians look crosseyed at me when I say I am a medical specialist corps officer. You'll be okay HOSS, just take a step back from that testosterone surge and be a good surgeon. You are going to love the goat lab HOSS.
    Have you been to OBC yet?
     
  39. hosskp1

    hosskp1 Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by PACmatthew:
    <strong>Thanks HOSS!

    You made a wise decision to calm down and act less like a surgeon (just a joke). Please just realize that it takes all types to make the world go round. FP's, Surgeons, and my God, even Podiatrists (did I just say that?). And Hoss, I am a PA, the backbone of Army medicine. Most PA's come from being infantry medics and work their way up to being senior medics first. I have been happy being a PA, but now wish to further the ole education. Medical officers are just that, medical. Medical Corps Officers are physicians. And yes, that was a little misleading (not intentional), because usually medical officers are another synonym of military physicians service wide. I usually use the term medical officer because civilians look crosseyed at me when I say I am a medical specialist corps officer. You'll be okay HOSS, just take a step back from that testosterone surge and be a good surgeon. You are going to love the goat lab HOSS.
    Have you been to OBC yet?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">First let me give you a big HOO-AH. I really respect the folks that are PA's in the Army. I have been to OBC and everyone I met had some really important things to say. So- yes I have been to OBC. After going to OBC, I even thought I may have made a career misdecision-- I should have done ROTC and become an officer in a different field-- ie Infantry with an eye on Airborne and Ranger schools. I think that if we met, you would not think that I would write that. Again-- sometimes I do things to get a rise out of people. The folks on scholarship at my school always make fun of the other services-- it is just a joke. I do not think less of FP doctors-- my family doc is one. I personally am not cut out for primary care-- it is very difficult mentally. I am a physical person- surgery is the way for me to go. I realize that I am a bit more Hoo-ah than most other med students in the HPSP. I really want to go to Airborne school and earn my EFMB. I am not sure how a physician goes about doing it, but there were some that I met that had no prior army experience that did it. I am working on how to do it. When I go to a few army hospitals for rotations, I am going to ask around a bit and see. I really love the Army, I like what they are about and I guess they have had a very good impression on me. I some of the non-clinical stuff a doctor gets to do as well. I am personally hoping I match at one of the Army Hospitals-- they are all really good. Anyway, since you have been around awhile-- any insight you give on getting into some of the more high speed stuff will be greatly appreciated.

    HOO-Ah
     
  40. PACmatthew

    PACmatthew Senior Member

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    Hoss,

    You should have no problem whatsoever in getting to go to 3 jump-chump school, but after that you will have little time. EFMB is very possible though, and you need to hook up with the most squared away medic under your command when you get out of residency if you want to do it. You won't likely have time in residency to do it. Another great school is the combat casualty care course (C4). To do EFMB, you will need to really practice the small tedious things like how to carry a litter, and run the litter obstacle course about a thousand times. You also need to practice your marksmanship, because if you cannot qualify you can't even go to EFMB testing. One of the biggest things believe it or not is the CPR station. Those Sgt's will fail you if you get off rhythm at all! So are you a DO 2be? Where are you at? No for real, don't sweat telling me, we have settled our differences. Do you have any PA's in your med school class? I am sure hoping to have a leg up in year 2-4, but I think the first year will be very tough for me. That is the year that really is the difference between PA and physician training. I pray for 3rd year to start because my experience will really pay off. And as for residency, I say FP, but I dream EM. I am a former paramedic and still teach ACLS. EM is what I would love but I think my family would divorce me! They think the nights and 12 hour shifts are bad. Oh well, later.

    MJM
     
  41. hosskp1

    hosskp1 Senior Member

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    Attending Physician
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by PACmatthew:
    <strong>Hoss,

    You should have no problem whatsoever in getting to go to 3 jump-chump school, but after that you will have little time. EFMB is very possible though, and you need to hook up with the most squared away medic under your command when you get out of residency if you want to do it. You won't likely have time in residency to do it. Another great school is the combat casualty care course (C4). To do EFMB, you will need to really practice the small tedious things like how to carry a litter, and run the litter obstacle course about a thousand times. You also need to practice your marksmanship, because if you cannot qualify you can't even go to EFMB testing. One of the biggest things believe it or not is the CPR station. Those Sgt's will fail you if you get off rhythm at all! So are you a DO 2be? Where are you at? No for real, don't sweat telling me, we have settled our differences. Do you have any PA's in your med school class? I am sure hoping to have a leg up in year 2-4, but I think the first year will be very tough for me. That is the year that really is the difference between PA and physician training. I pray for 3rd year to start because my experience will really pay off. And as for residency, I say FP, but I dream EM. I am a former paramedic and still teach ACLS. EM is what I would love but I think my family would divorce me! They think the nights and 12 hour shifts are bad. Oh well, later.

    MJM</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well I am going to try my hardest to do these things . Thanks for the insight. If you are already a PA and on your way to medical achool---IT IS TIME TO RELAX-- you are going to demolish your tests-- you will have no problems.
    HOO-AH
     

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