another reason to go into medicine

[pagemmapants]

LAST POST, I swear.

Flop does have a point. The thing is, we have to realize that with human nature being what it is, "free markets" aren't going to simply solve everything because not everyone is smart enough or has enough integrity to do it properly. As far as the coal miners, back then they really DIDN'T have the option to go to a mine that promoted "healthy lung environments" regardless of how much of a cut in pay they were willing to take for that hypothetical trade-off. If chemical plants didn't provide respirators, the smart employees would buy their own, but I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people would assume that, since respirators weren't provided, they weren't necessary. It's similar to the regulation of environmental concerns: Ideally in a truly free market consumers who cared about the environment would only support corporations that were low polluters. Unfortunately, the majority of people in this world don't give a crap, and as a result, the environment is getting shot to hell even if there ARE people around that DO care. Thus, pollution restrictions are necessary in order to counter such developments. The analogy is this: we're all in a boat together and people like you & me, Shredder, we have to share it with the uneducated, the lazy, and the ignorant. Thing is, the boat is sinking and they're all to stupid to realize it, so someone has to bail the water out or tell the other people what to do, because it's illegal to just toss 'em overboard.

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[Shredder]

Nobody is going to outlaw tattoing or face painting but if your actions affect others, then I think those actions can be subject to regulation.

definitely true when youre in the public realm, its only when ppl start breaching the private sector that i think the line is crossed. for example if you want to wear spikes and ppl decide to run into you, you cannot ban spike wearing on that basis. public spike wearing you could ban, but if someone wants to open up a spike bar then spikes should be allowed in there.

flopotomist i certainly make points from a theoretical perspective which makes me seem extreme, even obstinate. however, theory exists for a reason--the question is what prevents theory from being reality? my post to seilienne talks about how a solution could be worked out, and placing dollar values to preferences. its an important concept, as everyone has varying degrees of strength in their preferences, and some tangible value has to be attached to that.

happy birthday brett, youre still so young huh. thats good, lots of time to build up success. drop me that article sometime and have some fun.

 

[pagemmapants]

if you want to wear spikes and ppl decide to run into you, you cannot ban spike wearing on that basis. public spike wearing you could ban, but if someone wants to open up a spike bar then spikes should be allowed in there.

I think I just peed myself. Shredder, I'm now outlawing laughter-inducing posts.

 

[Shredder]

LAST POST, I swear.

Flop does have a point. The thing is, we have to realize that with human nature being what it is, "free markets" aren't going to simply solve everything because not everyone is smart enough or has enough integrity to do it properly. As far as the coal miners, back then they really DIDN'T have the option to go to a mine that promoted "healthy lung environments" regardless of how much of a cut in pay they were willing to take for that hypothetical trade-off. If chemical plants didn't provide respirators, the smart employees would buy their own, but I'd be willing to bet that the majority of people would assume that, since respirators weren't provided, they weren't necessary. It's similar to the regulation of environmental concerns: Ideally in a truly free market consumers who cared about the environment would only support corporations that were low polluters. Unfortunately, the majority of people in this world don't give a crap, and as a result, the environment is getting shot to hell even if there ARE people around that DO care. Thus, pollution restrictions are necessary in order to counter such developments. The analogy is this: we're all in a boat together and people like you & me, Shredder, we have to share it with the uneducated, the lazy, and the ignorant. Thing is, the boat is sinking and they're all to stupid to realize it, so someone has to bail the water out or tell the other people what to do, because it's illegal to just toss 'em overboard.

this boils down to the fact that in economics some assumptions are that everyone is rational and has perfect information. but this isnt reality so i guess thats where the discrepancies arise. in medicine as well. i just dont think govt is the solution. rather i support endeavors like consumer reports and US news, which lessen the imperfection of information. any form of consulting is good too. pollution is a tricky situation since the Earth is a shared resource, particularly air and the atmosphere/ozone. land is much easier to divvy up and doesnt pose as much trouble.

good thread, invigorating. your description describes my feelings about the thread and colleagues as well. but even on sdn were few and far between, and beyond pre-allo the same will be true. its a wonder a flame war didnt start yet.

as for the sinking boat--i always keep in mind atlantis. i envisioned it as something like greenland for some reason. you never know...

 

[Shredder]

I think I just peed myself. Shredder, I'm now outlawing laughter-inducing posts.

sometimes you have to dig deep to produce examples that illustrate points. sleepiness factors in too. nite

 

[thegenius]

definitely true when youre in the public realm, its only when ppl start breaching the private sector that i think the line is crossed. for example if you want to wear spikes and ppl decide to run into you, you cannot ban spike wearing on that basis. public spike wearing you could ban, but if someone wants to open up a spike bar then spikes should be allowed in there.

That is really interesting, you mention that you "cannot ban spike wearing" if people starting hurting others with spiked shoes.

But you know what would happen if there were a dozen spike bars and hundreds of people started getting injured from "spikers" in those bars. You bet the government would outlaw those spike bars (if they could not prosecute every single "spiker.")

 

[Shredder]

That is really interesting, you mention that you "cannot ban spike wearing" if people starting hurting others with spiked shoes.

But you know what would happen if there were a dozen spike bars and hundreds of people started getting injured from "spikers" in those bars. You bet the government would outlaw those spike bars (if they could not prosecute every single "spiker.")

not fair--nobody forces ppl to go into spike bars. its their own idiocy, and they should take responsibility for it instead of crying to the Man. its whiners like these that deprive us of many freedoms we should be able to enjoy. for example the low speed limits that are in place bc of bad drivers who ruin it for everyone. there should be super expressways with 100 mph limit. as long as you have a choice about whether or not to go on them. its when ppl do not have choices that i think its appropriate for the Man to step in and moderate things. such as public parks and plazas that are owned by taxpayers and should be subject to the taxpayers whims.

 

[thegenius]

not fair--nobody forces ppl to go into spike bars. its their own idiocy, and they should take responsibility for it instead of crying to the Man. its whiners like these that deprive us of many freedoms we should be able to enjoy. for example the low speed limits that are in place bc of bad drivers who ruin it for everyone. there should be super expressways with 100 mph limit. as long as you have a choice about whether or not to go on them. its when ppl do not have choices that i think its appropriate for the Man to step in and moderate things. such as public parks and plazas that are owned by taxpayers and should be subject to the taxpayers whims.

You know Shredder, you got me thinking about something. I know you are probably going to hate what I'm about to say, but the only way I think we can get universal health care coverage in the United States is if companies and citizens (but basically companies) demand that health care costs go down. If enough large companies go out of business or suffer tremendous economic losses like what GM is going through, then I can see their constituents only vote for politicians who will push through universal health care.

I'm currently reading an article on this, and I thought of you! (and that is a compliment!)

 

[Shredder]

You know Shredder, you got me thinking about something. I know you are probably going to hate what I'm about to say, but the only way I think we can get universal health care coverage in the United States is if companies and citizens (but basically companies) demand that health care costs go down. If enough large companies go out of business or suffer tremendous economic losses like what GM is going through, then I can see their constituents only vote for politicians who will push through universal health care.

I'm currently reading an article on this, and I thought of you! (and that is a compliment!)

ha, touching. we will have to be yin and yang then, like mr glass and bruce willis, harry potter and voldemort, hannity and colmes. economics and healthcare is an interesting subject, something i took up solely to prep for interviews and md/mba questions but ive since grown sincerely intrigued by.

politicians--bleh! i have a growing distaste for them

 

[tank you]

ha, touching. we will have to be yin and yang then, like mr glass and bruce willis, harry potter and voldemort, hannity and colmes. economics and healthcare is an interesting subject, something i took up solely to prep for interviews and md/mba questions but ive since grown sincerely intrigued by.

politicians--bleh! i have a growing distaste for them

haha, ur an m. night shymalan fan.
and whats wrong with politicians? i thought u were into the hardcore right-wingers.

 

[Shredder]

haha, ur an m. night shymalan fan.
and whats wrong with politicians? i thought u were into the hardcore right-wingers.

have to support the indos of course. especially the good old twist endings. im growing distrustful of politicians, i read too much about how much special interests affect politics. and more and more i see that politics and good economics do not mix. the public sectors performance is shamefully bad across the board. lobbying and political favors work to the detriment of the common man who doesnt have access to powerful politicians. i think it affects medicine adversely too. pork barrel legislation and spending is also concerning, as well as pervasive and neverending

 

[willow18]

The idea that money/wealth drives people to war has nothing to do with free-markets. People seek power, and that will occur in any economy, religion, culture and society. It's the nature of the animal. In Western culture money has become power, but the same power struggle will go on in some obscure culture where they'll fight over the right for the sacred tree or some other #$%$#.