Answering Questions - Recent Neurosurgery Graduate

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xf3rn4nd3sx

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Hey, everyone! I'm currently in my first year of private practice (so, I guess I didn't graduate that recently) and would be happy to answer any questions any residents/med students/pre-meds may have about the specialty/lifestyle/etc during and after residency. I've been browsing these forums for several years, but only recently made an account (last year). I've been meaning to this for a while to give back to the community, so feel free to ask anything.

(I'll probably be going to sleep shortly, but will answer any questions posted tomorrow!)

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I had previously posted this in the neurosurgery forum, but felt it may be more useful to viewers considering all realms of surgery:

Hey, everyone! I'm currently in my first year of private practice (so, I guess I didn't graduate that recently) and would be happy to answer any questions any residents/med students/pre-meds may have about the specialty/lifestyle/etc during and after residency. I've been browsing these forums for several years, but only recently made an account (last year). I've been meaning to this for a while to give back to the community, so feel free to ask anything.

(I'll probably be going to sleep shortly, but will answer any questions posted tomorrow!)
 
Congrats for graduation. My question is about lifestyle. I know there is no lifestyle in surgery fields but I want to know how much time you have for your family, habits...etc. I know it is variable from program to another. Also, what about daily schedule. When you start and leave? how many hours/week?
May I know your answer and if you can tell us about your program Academic/community. Approximate rank like top 10 or 20.
 
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How does research work in neurosurgery? I am an MD/PhD student interested in neurosurgery in concept, but I would also like to have a lab. Is there space/time/departmental interest in research?
 
hey thanks for the taking the time out to answer some questions. so first, i'd like to ask you how your life is as an attending nsg now? how many hours a week do you find yourself working? I ask b/c, as a MS3, i am currently trying to decide what to apply for and i've narrowed my choices down to urology, orthopedics, and neurosurgery...one thing that i've heard many pple say is to always consider lifestyle so what are your thoughts on those fields? also if you didn't do neurosurgery, what do you think you would have done?

lastly, how's teh job market nowadays in neurosurgery and what kind of salary on avg can a person straight out of residency expect? and what is the potential? if you have any such information about ortho and urology, that'd be awesome too. just trying to get a sense of supply/demand/compensation on these fields.

thanks so much. congrats on graduating residency last year!
 
Thank you for offering to give back to the forums. Most of the time residents move on and don't make an effort to come back here to participate, when attending presence is appreciated by all of those on the road behind us.

However, multiple threads on the same topic are a violation of the Terms of Service agreement. Therefore, anyone wishing to take advantage of your advice, can follow this http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=919891 link to your thread in the NSGY forum.
 
@Mud - Hi, so whether or not you have the opportunity to do research/have a lab is very dependent on where you are and type of neurosurgery, but it is definitely doable. You typically do not see as much research in a private practice setting, but in an academic center there are definitely opportunities. Johns Hopkins, for example, has several neurosurgeons with labs and plenty of research opportunity. So, yes, if you choose an academic setting, there will definitely be possibility for research.

@stronghold - Contrary to what most people say about neurosurgery, I have found that you absolutely can find a practice setting that meets your needs (in terms of lifestyle). Residency, I will admit, was pretty bad in terms of lifestyle. I attended residency at a state school, so not top 10, but I got a lot of exposure to many types of cases and can comfortably handle just about anything I may encounter. Right now, I work about 60-70 hours a week including call, which isn't too bad. I leave around 7 and arrive home at varying times. If it's a pure OR day, I may get home around 6-7. If it's a half OR, half clinic day or a full clinic day, I am usually home around 5 or earlier (not bad at all). I take call every 4th day (again not too bad). I have plenty of time with family, as weekends are pretty lax. Financially, I am doing extremely well, but I think you will find that in neurosurgery you never really have to worry about finances.

Basically, don't let anyone discourage you from doing neurosurgery simply because of the lifestyle. After finishing you will have tons of offers and I guarantee that you can find one that suits your needs. I have friends that only work 4 days a week ~50 hours. Depending on the practice setting you join, you can do that.
 
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Thank you for offering to give back to the forums. Most of the time residents move on and don't make an effort to come back here to participate, when attending presence is appreciated by all of those on the road behind us.

However, multiple threads on the same topic are a violation of the Terms of Service agreement. Therefore, anyone wishing to take advantage of your advice, can follow this http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=919891 link to your thread in the NSGY forum.

Oh sorry about that haha. I will move my discussion to the other forum. Thanks!
 
Hi, so some of this is copied from my other thread which is now being moved here.
Right now, I work about 60-70 hours a week including call, which isn't too bad. I leave around 7 and arrive home at varying times. If it's a pure OR day, I may get home around 6-7. If it's a half OR, half clinic day or a full clinic day, I am usually home around 5 or earlier (not bad at all). I take call every 4th day (again not too bad). I have plenty of time with family, as weekends are pretty lax.

Basically, don't let anyone discourage you from doing neurosurgery simply because of the lifestyle. After finishing you will have tons of offers and I guarantee that you can find one that suits your needs. I have friends that only work 4 days a week ~50 hours. Depending on the practice setting you join, you can do that.

If I hadn't done neuosurgery, I think I probably would've gone into ophthalmology or orthopedic surgery, but again I'm not too sure because I've always kinda been gunning for neurosurgery. Demand in the field is huge (or at least you don't have to worry about finding a job). From what I understand, many of the surgeons in the field are older, so demand will be even greater in the future. In terms of salary and potential, I hate to answer these questions because it will likely change by the time you finish residency, but I'll do my best. My first year will be about ~$750k, but I feel that this is somewhat atypical because I joined a large, established practice that needed a replacement for a retiring partner. Offers vary from ~$400k to over 7 figures, but keep in mind, there can be strings attached. Some offers flat out told me that I would have to take call every other day and work 80-90 hours a week, which was way too much for me with a family (these are the positions in which you don't have much of a life, but make some serious coin). DO NOT base your decision simply off of salary, however, because by the time you finish the salary could be half of what it is today (healthcare is rapidly changing). Choose something you enjoy and stick with it. Neurosurgery is the best field to be in if you enjoy it, but if you don't you'll burn out.
 
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Residency, I will admit, was pretty bad in terms of lifestyle.

Could you elaborate on this a bit? I've heard that neurosurgery residencies are often the least-compliant with regard to the 80/wk restrictions-- was this the case with you? What about your peers in other programs?

Could you also speak about what drew you into neurosurgery & why you love it?

Thanks for paying it forward and making this thread. This is what makes SDN such a great resource.
 
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Sure, so I should clarify that I absolutely loved residency. What I meant by "bad in terms of lifestyle" was that it is difficult to be a neurosurgeon resident with a family. Difficult - yes. Impossible - no. Your family will need to get used to the idea that you will not be able to attend every event, ceremony, party, etc. Despite this, you will have free time (perhaps not as much as other residents, but you will have some). Hours vary throughout residency. Occasional weeks I did have to work 90-100+ hours, but some weeks it was maybe 65 or 70. For example, one day I arrived at the hospital at 7 am and left and 11 pm the next day. You do sometimes breach the 80/wk average restrictions, but its not a big deal. Most of my peers and I loved the additional hours because it meant more exposure to cases and better preparation. I grew very close to the other residents and we became great friends over the time period. I should add that research year was fairly light in terms of workload.

I was drawn into neurosurgery because of the complex and highly interesting cases. Its a great field in which your performance can greatly impact the lives of your patients.

Residency is no walk in the park, but the pay off is tremendous. It is a huge commitment, especially if you have a family, but after you get through it you can have a great lifestyle. You can definitely find jobs in which you only work 60 hours a week, if family time and free time are important to you.
 
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Thanks for taking the time to answer questions. I was wondering what the caseload for a private practice non-fellowship neurosurgeon was like. Is it mostly spine or do you work intracranially as well?
 
hey! thanks for doing this. and congrats on graduating! that's awesome.

so i wanted to ask you a few questions:

1. how many days do you spend in the OR versus clinic time? also what are the most common surgeries that you are currently doing in your private practice?

2. in your opinion, what are the worst aspects of neurosurgery?

3. similar to a post above, i too am considering either nsg or urology and i've had a few attendings in various surgical fields telling me to do urology mainly due to the fact that i will most likely have a much more favorable/flexible lifestyle and still be able to make very similar money. i personally can see myself doing either and think i would be happy in either. do you have any thoughts? do you have any friends in urology? what do they say about the field? are they happy?

again, thanks so much for doing this.
 
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If you had to choose between neurology and surgery/a different surgical subspecialty, which one would you pick? Do you consider yourself primarily a surgeon or a doctor who treats neurological conditions surgically? Obviously this a false dichotomy, but I'm very interested in neuroscience and not sure where I fall as far as medicine vs. surgery. I've only just graduated and will hopefully be entering medical school next year, so I've got plenty of time to be exposed to everything and see what I like, but I'm curious.

EDIT - oops, just realized you already answered this. Thanks anyway!
 
@DoctwoB - You are correct in that spine work is most common. In my practice specifically, it is about 70% spine and 30% cranial.

@gooze - 1. Some days are half and half, but it averages out to be ~2.5-3 days OR and ~2-2.5 days clinic. Since we do predominantly spine, the most common procedures I see are lumbar discectomy, ACDF, etc. I enjoy these cases, but definitely not as much as the cranial stuff.
2. Hmmmm worst aspects... I guess getting over the residency hump could be considered, but even that wasn't too bad. Lifestyle is perfectly fine... I guess I'd have to say the patients dealt with. Some of the patients you deal with are already in very critical conditions and don't always have the best outcomes. I've encountered numerous patients who often act like they simply don't want to get better. In contrast, I have a buddy who's a surgical oncologist. His patients in general have a much more positive attitude and will often do anything to help themselves and their situation. Even so, the satisfaction you get from successfully treating one of these critical patients in neurosurgery and tremendously improving his/her life makes it all worth while.
3. Urology is a great field, and if you would be perfectly happy in either, then you can't make a wrong decision. If you have already rotated in both fields and still can't decide, then I would recommend going with your gut and having no regrets. As for lifestyle and compensation, you will find that compensation will be generally higher in neurosurgery, whereas lifestyle will generally be more flexible in urology. That being said, you can still find a job in neurosurgery with a flexible lifestyle (as I have done). Ultimately it will boil down which you find more interesting. You might also look into a urology sub-specialty called neuro-urology if you absolutely must do both, but I think job prospects are better if you choose one or the other.
 
If you had to choose between neurology and surgery/a different surgical subspecialty, which one would you pick? Do you consider yourself primarily a surgeon or a doctor who treats neurological conditions surgically? Obviously this a false dichotomy, but I'm very interested in neuroscience and not sure where I fall as far as medicine vs. surgery. I've only just graduated and will hopefully be entering medical school next year, so I've got plenty of time to be exposed to everything and see what I like, but I'm curious.

EDIT - oops, just realized you already answered this. Thanks anyway!

Personally, I was always looking into surgical sub-specialties, as I was more interested in the hands on aspect (plus I found surgery exciting and fun). The beauty of neurosurgery is that you get to both diagnose neurological conditions and treat them with surgery. I find a problem and I fix it. If you've just entered medical school, you have plenty of time to make the decision. You will have the opportunity to rotate and see whether you like surgery or not. If you cannot wait, then maybe try contacting local surgeons in your area and see if you can shadow them. I did this even before med school and it really changed my perspective about medicine.
 
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Whats a typical night of call like for you?

In what direction do you see neurosurgery heading in the next 20 yrs? Are there new, minimally invasive procedures on the horizon? Any turf issues with ortho/interventional rads/neurology/Rad onc?
 
I pmed you, but I'll duplicate the question here for everyone.

How important is research and how can I go about obtaining a NS clinical research position in an area where I know no one?
 
@KinasePro - I am currently in a neurosurgery group that services three hospitals/regions, so call ranges from very light to very busy. I often get called in at least once when on call, especially if it's Friday or the weekend, but some nights it's completely quiet. I only have call once every 4 days though, so I only have a maximum of 2 nights of call a week. The future scope for neurosurgery is huge. There is still so much we don't know. I foresee robotics playing a larger and larger role in surgery in the future, as there is less risk of infection (in addition to numerous other advantages). I remember reading somewhere that the majority of neurosurgeons are above a certain age (maybe it was 50?), so I predict the demand for neurosurgeons will definitely increase in the future. I don't think there are any catastrophic turf wars in the field, but there will always be plenty of work for a neurosurgeon.

@bkprodigy - I'll try to include some of the pm information in the answer. So as an M1 wanting to shadow area surgeons, I did exactly as you suggested: email random surgeons. Some of them proved to be extremely busy and unable to help me, but others were more than happy to let me shadow. The surgeons at your med school may be extremely busy, so I actually shadowed surgeons from my home town.
Clinical research is important, but as an M1 I would focus more on learning the material and rocking your USLME Step 1. That score is much more important than any research. If you have time, there are often physicians who have projects or research ready for a med student. This often takes place during summers or later med school years. Some schools have dedicated research periods (Duke I think?). I can't really speak too much on the finding research aspect as I was extremely fortunate to bump into someone who wanted me to do research with him.
 
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Hi xf3rn,

First off, thanks a million for doing this!

How technically demanding is NSG? I'm currently an MS2 thinking of doing surgery, and I was fortunate to observe some CT surg, which looked challenging, particularly the peds CT.

1. How does NSG stack up? And as you said (and is widely known), outcomes aren't the greatest; how high is the level of technical aptitude needed compared to say, other types of surgical sub-specialties?

2. Where is the line, technically, between harming patients and helping improve their QOL? My question is more along the lines of how do we know we'll be good enough? And will factors like shaky hands severely harm patients (more so than other surgical specs). Was there a point where you realized you were 'good enough'?

Thank you loads for doing this.
 
Thanks you very much for previous answers. So I noticed that you get about 750 k. Is this the base salary or with bonus? Is it the net after tax? I heard that salary differs from region to another, so is this in West, East..?
I like the research and academic work, can I schedule my work in University Hospital the way I like if I accept less salary? I will be more than happy for net 250 k if I can work less and in University hospital.
 
@DoctwoB - You are correct in that spine work is most common. In my practice specifically, it is about 70% spine and 30% cranial.

@gooze - 1. Some days are half and half, but it averages out to be ~2.5-3 days OR and ~2-2.5 days clinic. Since we do predominantly spine, the most common procedures I see are lumbar discectomy, ACDF, etc. I enjoy these cases, but definitely not as much as the cranial stuff.
2. Hmmmm worst aspects... I guess getting over the residency hump could be considered, but even that wasn't too bad. Lifestyle is perfectly fine... I guess I'd have to say the patients dealt with. Some of the patients you deal with are already in very critical conditions and don't always have the best outcomes. I've encountered numerous patients who often act like they simply don't want to get better. In contrast, I have a buddy who's a surgical oncologist. His patients in general have a much more positive attitude and will often do anything to help themselves and their situation. Even so, the satisfaction you get from successfully treating one of these critical patients in neurosurgery and tremendously improving his/her life makes it all worth while.
3. Urology is a great field, and if you would be perfectly happy in either, then you can't make a wrong decision. If you have already rotated in both fields and still can't decide, then I would recommend going with your gut and having no regrets. As for lifestyle and compensation, you will find that compensation will be generally higher in neurosurgery, whereas lifestyle will generally be more flexible in urology. That being said, you can still find a job in neurosurgery with a flexible lifestyle (as I have done). Ultimately it will boil down which you find more interesting. You might also look into a urology sub-specialty called neuro-urology if you absolutely must do both, but I think job prospects are better if you choose one or the other.


hey thanks for the reply! really appreciate it. so yeah, i have had the opportunity to rotate through urology and neurosurgery and really enjoyed both equally as much, hence the decision i need to make. The one thing that at this point makes me lean towards urology that maybe you can comment on is the fact that it is much more feasible to tailor your practice to a more office-based/small procedural-based practice in urology than in neurosurgery. I mean, to me, (please correct me if i'm wrong) it is really not too feasible to give up operating in neurosurgery and it seems that you must be in the OR your entire career and most cases in neurosurgery are time consuming with even small cases averaging like 3-4 hours. I guess urology is nice in that it gives you an option to stop doing huge surgical cases and rather do smaller surgeries/procedures that can be done in the office or at outpatient centers, etc...what are your thoughts on this? is there that option of becoming less operative in neurosurgery? i'm just trying to think about my life/career 30-40 years down the road when maybe a 4 hour surgery just isn't as "easy" as it would be when i'm younger. Thanks.
 
I'd like to add my thanks for your doing this, and add my own questions. I'm a third year trying to decide between NS and Orthopedics, I've been working toward NS the whole time, always had OS in the back of my mind however, and have rotated on both, and I'd like to ask you to perhaps elaborate a bit on what you mean with regards to the 'worst part' of NS? My big hesitance with NS is how depressing it would get to be continually operating on and managing GCS 8 pt's and GBM cases, seeing way too many patients never leave the NICU, etc, although I know my experience may be skewed with the most complex (and by extension, poorest prognosis) patients seen here at an academic center with a big department, what has your experience been so far as a practicing NS in the community?
 
Hi xf3rn,

First off, thanks a million for doing this!

How technically demanding is NSG? I'm currently an MS2 thinking of doing surgery, and I was fortunate to observe some CT surg, which looked challenging, particularly the peds CT.

1. How does NSG stack up? And as you said (and is widely known), outcomes aren't the greatest; how high is the level of technical aptitude needed compared to say, other types of surgical sub-specialties?

2. Where is the line, technically, between harming patients and helping improve their QOL? My question is more along the lines of how do we know we'll be good enough? And will factors like shaky hands severely harm patients (more so than other surgical specs). Was there a point where you realized you were 'good enough'?

Thank you loads for doing this.

Neurosurgery is technically demanding and quite intense, but keep in mind no one is going to throw you into a 12 hour surgery your first day and expect you to perform on your own. There is a reason neurosurgery residencies are 6-7 years. I think nearly every resident at some time or another wonders whether they're good enough, but by the end of residency, I assure you that you'll be good enough. Technical aptitude is comparable to other surgical specialties, but you are arguably working in a more delicate region of the body, so complications are more severe. A lot of spine work is relatively barbaric in comparison to cranial surgery, but in most private practices you will be doing more spine than brain work. Steady hands are of course better than shaky hands when it comes to any surgery, but it should not affect you too much as long as it's done at a reasonable level (not swinging your hands wildly inside of a patient). In most cases, if you are genuinely doing what is in the best interest of the patient (not performing unnecessary spine surgeries (and you will know when it's unnecessary)), you yourself will not be harming the patient. Often it is that the patient is already in a state in which their condition can deteriorate with or without the surgery.
 
Thanks you very much for previous answers. So I noticed that you get about 750 k. Is this the base salary or with bonus? Is it the net after tax? I heard that salary differs from region to another, so is this in West, East..?
I like the research and academic work, can I schedule my work in University Hospital the way I like if I accept less salary? I will be more than happy for net 250 k if I can work less and in University hospital.

Yes, this is net after taxes and malpractice (which is covered by the practice). I am in the South, and although salary does differ from region to region, I have found that the size of the area you practice in generally has a greater impact on salary. That's great that you are interested in academic work and you certainly can tailor your work more in a university setting. Academic centers are in fact the sites that get most of the cool and highly complex brain cases. Certain patient cases at our private practice must be sent to the academic center simply because we do not see enough of them yearly to effectively handle them. You will find that academic salaries are lower than private practice in general, but as a neurosurgeon you should be able to clear well above $250k net even in an academic center (offers are closer to 350-500). Hope this helps

EDIT- Sorry I mistyped. This 750k is gross (after malpractice but before taxes).
 
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hey thanks for the reply! really appreciate it. so yeah, i have had the opportunity to rotate through urology and neurosurgery and really enjoyed both equally as much, hence the decision i need to make. The one thing that at this point makes me lean towards urology that maybe you can comment on is the fact that it is much more feasible to tailor your practice to a more office-based/small procedural-based practice in urology than in neurosurgery. I mean, to me, (please correct me if i'm wrong) it is really not too feasible to give up operating in neurosurgery and it seems that you must be in the OR your entire career and most cases in neurosurgery are time consuming with even small cases averaging like 3-4 hours. I guess urology is nice in that it gives you an option to stop doing huge surgical cases and rather do smaller surgeries/procedures that can be done in the office or at outpatient centers, etc...what are your thoughts on this? is there that option of becoming less operative in neurosurgery? i'm just trying to think about my life/career 30-40 years down the road when maybe a 4 hour surgery just isn't as "easy" as it would be when i'm younger. Thanks.

I am not that knowledgeable on Urology practices, but I can definitely comment on neurosurgery practices. A lot of cases are certainly time consuming as you said, but at the same time some procedures (installing a pain pump, etc.) may only take 30-40 minutes. In many private practice settings you do not have the option to pick and choose cases, simply because there are not that many neurosurgeons, but this may be possible in large groups. Keep in mind that you can choose to operate only 2 days a week as a neurosurgeon, but you will of course be compensated less. Since most neurosurgeons finish residency at ~32, most are retired 30 years later. Your surgical skills do statistically worsen as you age, but this should not begin to show until much later in your career. I am sure that if you absolutely cannot operate due to old age, you can stick to teaching, research, or retirement. On the other hand, I recently read an article about a NY neurosurgeon who JUST retired at 72 and did surgery the entire time.

So short answer, don't think too hard about 30-40 years down the road. If you've been practicing for that long, then you surely have the financial independence to solely teach, do research, or consult on cases. Also consider that although urology procedures may be shorter, you may have to do many more of them per day. For example, if I have 4 hours cases, I typically won't do more than 3 and then I go home. For extremely long cases, you can even rotate with other surgeons.
 
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I'd like to add my thanks for your doing this, and add my own questions. I'm a third year trying to decide between NS and Orthopedics, I've been working toward NS the whole time, always had OS in the back of my mind however, and have rotated on both, and I'd like to ask you to perhaps elaborate a bit on what you mean with regards to the 'worst part' of NS? My big hesitance with NS is how depressing it would get to be continually operating on and managing GCS 8 pt's and GBM cases, seeing way too many patients never leave the NICU, etc, although I know my experience may be skewed with the most complex (and by extension, poorest prognosis) patients seen here at an academic center with a big department, what has your experience been so far as a practicing NS in the community?

Personally, as a private practice neurosurgeon we have generally good outcomes because our cases are predominantly spine-related. Of course we have our fair share of bad outcomes in cases involving the brain and NICU patients, simply because of the nature of these cases. I thought about this topic myself, but chose neurosurgery because the cases were so interesting, complex, and meaningful to the people who needed them.
 
You mentioned you were already interested in neurosurgery. I imagine you scored very well on boards and had a high class rank. Did you have to do research in medical school? What did you do during your summers?
 
What did you do with your loans during residency?

I was very fortunate in that I had a full ride to a top 5 undergraduate school (think Harvard, Yale, etc.), so my parents had a lot of college money saved up for med school. Between that and several miscellaneous scholarships, I had no med school debt. Sorry that I couldn't be of much help on this issue, but I think if you browse the neurosurgery forum there should be others in a similar situation as you who may be able to help.

Honestly, you do don't have to worry too much about loans if you are doing neurosurgery. For example, as I stated in the finance forum earlier this week, I was able to save $300k post tax this year. Saving $200k plus your first year is not impossible by any means in private practice if you live reasonably. So, if it makes sense financially, you could always defer your loans and pay them off as an attending. There isn't much sense in further reducing your quality of living as a resident if it makes sense financially and you don't have to.
 
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You mentioned you were already interested in neurosurgery. I imagine you scored very well on boards and had a high class rank. Did you have to do research in medical school? What did you do during your summers?

So yeah, I did really well on boards and class rank was fairly high. I did do research in med school and I highly recommend it. As I told someone else in this thread, however, I would focus more on your boards the first two years. I didn't have much time the first two years, but I did a decent amount of research my last two, including research for one summer.

I came from a competitive medical school (top 5), but went to a state school residency for family reasons, so I guess it was easier for me than someone who wants to attend a top notch residency and enter academics.
 
So, if you plan to enter private practice, you could always defer your loans and pay them off as an attending. There isn't much sense in further reducing your quality of living as a resident if you plan to be a practicing neurosurgeon.

What if, at this point in the game (still in medical school), you don't yet know whether you'd like to go into PP or stay in academics? Would it still make sense to defer loans / go into forbearance during residency if you won't be looking forward to a PP income?
 
What if, at this point in the game (still in medical school), you don't yet know whether you'd like to go into PP or stay in academics? Would it still make sense to defer loans / go into forbearance during residency if you won't be looking forward to a PP income?

If interest rates are low, if your loans can be deferred without accruing interest, and you need the monthly income, then by all means defer your loans. I used private practice as an example because I am in private practice, but even an academic neurosurgeon has the ability to pay off loans with relative ease. A friend of mine who is in his second year practicing as an academic neurosurgeon had debt of about 250k upon graduating and has already paid off his loans, as the interest rate was relatively high.

Again, I didn't really have to deal with loans, so I'm not too familiar with the issue. When I said don't worry about loans if you are going into neurosurgery, I meant that you shouldn't stress about loans because you will undoubtedly be able to pay them off. That being said, you should still look at what makes the most sense financially with regards to your loans and your situation. Some loans accrue interest during residency, and some loans you can defer without accruing any interest. Look at the interest rates. How high are they? If the interest rate is very low, then you may as well pay it off slowly and invest elsewhere. Additionally, think about where your residency is? If you are a resident in NYC it may be difficult to make loan payments due to the high cost of living.
 
Do you have any advice for people just starting medical school but are already extremely interested in neurosurgery? (Or just knowledge you wish someone had told you early on?)

The advice I've been getting is focus on your grades/classwork your first two years to best help prepare yourself for boards. Add research in over the summers or during your 3rd/4th year.
 
Hey, everyone! I'm currently in my first year of private practice (so, I guess I didn't graduate that recently) and would be happy to answer any questions any residents/med students/pre-meds may have about the specialty/lifestyle/etc during and after residency. I've been browsing these forums for several years, but only recently made an account (last year). I've been meaning to this for a while to give back to the community, so feel free to ask anything.

(I'll probably be going to sleep shortly, but will answer any questions posted tomorrow!)
Hi! can you please tell me in which University did you study? except Harvard and Yale are there any other university that actually give impetus to be a '''good doctor'' and iternational student can be accepted? If you know please ansower me ..:)
 
Do you have any advice for people just starting medical school but are already extremely interested in neurosurgery? (Or just knowledge you wish someone had told you early on?)

The advice I've been getting is focus on your grades/classwork your first two years to best help prepare yourself for boards. Add research in over the summers or during your 3rd/4th year.

Hmmm I think you should be fine, so I don't have too much to add. Just stay focused and keep an open mind. Don't get too attached to neurosurgery without having experienced it.

Hi! can you please tell me in which University did you study? except Harvard and Yale are there any other university that actually give impetus to be a '''good doctor'' and iternational student can be accepted? If you know please ansower me ..:)

I went to top 5 undergraduate and medical schools and then a state school for residency.
I'm not too familiar with the application process for an international student, but no school can make you a good doctor. Work hard, study hard, and stay focused. Those are steps to becoming a good doctor. That being said, you will have to do some research into which medical schools you are interested in. Harvard, Yale, etc. are extremely hard to get into, but state schools and non-ivy schools produce plenty of able, talented doctors.
 
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Hey, thanks for doing this Q&A. I'm about to start neurosurgery residency in about 3 weeks. Any advice on how to hit the ground rolling?
 
Nothing special about hitting the ground rolling. Everyone, for the most part, starts at the same stage. But I think there are things to remember as you go through residency.

You'll find lots of posts about how to be a good intern scattered about SDN. The summary is just be honest, work well with others, call your spouse/girlfriend/mom & dad when you get the chance, don't procrastinate on anything, when you feel uncomfortable about some patient situation it's time to load the boat.

In terms of neurosurgery I think the following are important:

Try to keep a positive attitude. You will get immensely frustrated at times. Try to remember how lucky you are that you were given the incredible opportunity to do what you are doing.

There is no such thing as a "stupid consult". Yes, you work hard (and probably a lot harder than most ER, radiology, IM, family medicine residents that you'll deal with everyday). But, that does not mean when they call you for help you should treat them anything less than what they are: someone asking for your help.

Make sure you learn something new every single day. At first it will seem like you are learning something new every minute. But soon you will get jaded and think you know it all. This is never true. Also, when times are bad, I think about what I learned that day and realize why I'm in this hell of residency...not just to get tortured but actually learn how to be a great neurosurgeon.

Set up a reading scheduling early and stick to it. No matter how tired you are, remember that your attending worked at least 50% more hours per week than you did. Therefore spending 10 to 20 minutes reading something every day should not be a chore for you. As an intern you should be reading the basics...Marino's ICU book; Greenberg's chapters on spinal and cranial trauma. As you get more senior you need to read a text; While long, Youman's would be ideal. Then the operative technique texts, like Schmidek & Sweet.

Neurosurgery is awesome.
 
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Why did you go private practice? Why not academic?

I was looking at your estimated figures for private practice versus academics (California) and there is a stark significant difference. I was looking at some starting figures with academics and some start at 70-90k. Did money factor into your choice between these two?

How long is pediatric fellowships? From preliminary searches, some programs are 1 year. Are they generally 1 year?
 
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At the specific hospital you were doing your neurosurgical residency at, were there any opportunities for advanced degrees during residency? If so, how much extra time would a resident have to dedicate? Also, any idea how long a fellowship is for spinal surgery? What about cerebrovascular and neuro-oncology?
Just out of curiosity what fellowship did you do?
How many hours a week were you personally working, and how many do you do now?
Around how much did you make starting off with malpractice insurance (sorry if personal)?
Sorry for all the questions, but thanks in advanced.
 
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Hi guys! Sorry I've been reeeeally busy and haven't been able to update this thread as often as I would like, but I should be more responsive now.

Nothing special about hitting the ground rolling. Everyone, for the most part, starts at the same stage. But I think there are things to remember as you go through residency.

You'll find lots of posts about how to be a good intern scattered about SDN. The summary is just be honest, work well with others, call your spouse/girlfriend/mom & dad when you get the chance, don't procrastinate on anything, when you feel uncomfortable about some patient situation it's time to load the boat.

In terms of neurosurgery I think the following are important:

Try to keep a positive attitude. You will get immensely frustrated at times. Try to remember how lucky you are that you were given the incredible opportunity to do what you are doing.

There is no such thing as a "stupid consult". Yes, you work hard (and probably a lot harder than most ER, radiology, IM, family medicine residents that you'll deal with everyday). But, that does not mean when they call you for help you should treat them anything less than what they are: someone asking for your help.

Make sure you learn something new every single day. At first it will seem like you are learning something new every minute. But soon you will get jaded and think you know it all. This is never true. Also, when times are bad, I think about what I learned that day and realize why I'm in this hell of residency...not just to get tortured but actually learn how to be a great neurosurgeon.

Set up a reading scheduling early and stick to it. No matter how tired you are, remember that your attending worked at least 50% more hours per week than you did. Therefore spending 10 to 20 minutes reading something every day should not be a chore for you. As an intern you should be reading the basics...Marino's ICU book; Greenberg's chapters on spinal and cranial trauma. As you get more senior you need to read a text; While long, Youman's would be ideal. Then the operative technique texts, like Schmidek & Sweet.

Neurosurgery is awesome.

Very true and couldn't have said it better myself.

Why did you go private practice? Why not academic?

I was looking at your estimated figures for private practice versus academics (California) and there is a stark significant difference. I was looking at some starting figures with academics and some start at 70-90k. Did money factor into your choice between these two?

How long is pediatric fellowships? From preliminary searches, some programs are 1 year. Are they generally 1 year?

Hmmmm, I can't say I've heard of starting salaries as low as 70-90k for neurosurgery. Even for academic positions, my starting offers averaged around $400-500k. I think with any job you need to consider compensation, but that was not a huge factor in my decision. I went with private practice because I found a group that closely matched my priorities. I am in a great community to raise a family and have time off to spend with them. After a certain income there is little additional marginal benefit. I felt as though I had already reached this level when I was considering jobs, so I focused on the complete package being offered (cases, family time, lifestyle, ideals). I still often wish I had the case variety of academic neurosurgeons, but I still really enjoy my surgeries.

Yes, I think pediatric fellowships are generally one year.

At the specific hospital you were doing your neurosurgical residency at, were there any opportunities for advanced degrees during residency? If so, how much extra time would a resident have to dedicate? Also, any idea how long a fellowship is for spinal surgery? What about cerebrovascular and neuro-oncology?
Just out of curiosity what fellowship did you do?
How many hours a week were you personally working, and how many do you do now?
Around how much did you make starting off with malpractice insurance (sorry if personal)?
Sorry for all the questions, but thanks in advanced.

That wasn't available where I did my residency, but I know that a lot of hospitals do offer that option. Depending on the residency program, you are able to replace certain years (ex a research year) with one year of fellowship and if needed can finish the rest of your fellowship after residency. I believe spine fellowships are typically one year for neurosurgeons, but a fellowships is often not needed. Depending on how much exposure you get to spine cases you may finish residency and do spine surgery without a fellowship (as I am doing, although only 70% spine). I'm not too sure about the other fellowships, but I'm sure the question has been addressed before.

Your last 2 questions I addressed earlier in the thread. Just control+f and search for "$" and "hours."
 
When did you know you wanted to do neurosurgery in your life (before college, during undergraduate, etc.)? Also, if you couldn't go into neurosurgery, what would your second and third specialty have been (ortho, ENT, etc.)? I'm only a junior in high school and am interested in neurosurgery, but I may not even want to be a neurosurgeon in the future or I may even be to overwhelmed in the work load to be a physician, even though I want to go to a BS/MD program. From how you are putting, neurosurgery isn't bad, but your mainly doing spine and not mostly surgery on the actual brain, which I believe I would most likely be interested in, though those are the surgeries that can hold the most risks. I apologize for the rambling and you advice would be great.
 
Thanks for doing this! I'm not sure what your exposure to other surgical sub-specialties has been, but what do you think about the lifestyle/ hours differences between neurosurg and trauma surgery? Obviously both are brutal, but which is worse and why?

I'm a rising M1, so I've got time, but I'm pretty sure the following will remain important to me: 1) lots of operative time 2) opportunities to manage complex/critical patients 3) variety of cases (i.e. even for great compensation, I doubt I'd be happy fusing spines all day.) 4) low BS to actual problem ratio. I'm an ER nurse right now, and I may jump through a window if I see one more coxsackie-ish kid roll up on an ambulance.

Given the above...neurosurg or trauma surg? (I know it's early on, everyone changes, etc., but in theory...)
 
So I am assuming you were 33-34 when you became a full-fledged neurological surgeon.
 
When did you know you wanted to do neurosurgery in your life (before college, during undergraduate, etc.)? Also, if you couldn't go into neurosurgery, what would your second and third specialty have been (ortho, ENT, etc.)? I'm only a junior in high school and am interested in neurosurgery, but I may not even want to be a neurosurgeon in the future or I may even be to overwhelmed in the work load to be a physician, even though I want to go to a BS/MD program. From how you are putting, neurosurgery isn't bad, but your mainly doing spine and not mostly surgery on the actual brain, which I believe I would most likely be interested in, though those are the surgeries that can hold the most risks. I apologize for the rambling and you advice would be great.

I was looking into Ophthalmology, Ortho, or maybe reconstructive plastics. Don't plan too far ahead if you are just a junior in high school. Your interests will likely change. Also, if you want to do just brain surgeries (not spine), don't worry. You can.

Thanks for doing this! I'm not sure what your exposure to other surgical sub-specialties has been, but what do you think about the lifestyle/ hours differences between neurosurg and trauma surgery? Obviously both are brutal, but which is worse and why?

I'm a rising M1, so I've got time, but I'm pretty sure the following will remain important to me: 1) lots of operative time 2) opportunities to manage complex/critical patients 3) variety of cases (i.e. even for great compensation, I doubt I'd be happy fusing spines all day.) 4) low BS to actual problem ratio. I'm an ER nurse right now, and I may jump through a window if I see one more coxsackie-ish kid roll up on an ambulance.

Given the above...neurosurg or trauma surg? (I know it's early on, everyone changes, etc., but in theory...)

I would say neurosurgery. I will say that the lifestyle in trauma surgery is generally worse than that of neurosurgery. The main thing for you is that trauma surgery is also often very non-operative. You may have a lot of management duties rather than operative duties. You may have to cover general surgery call and ICU. I think the BS to actual problem ratio would be higher than that in neurosurgery. I think neurosurgery is also more flexible in terms of what kind of practice you want to have and what you actually want to do with your career.

So I am assuming you were 33-34 when you became a full-fledged neurological surgeon.

I was 32, but I skipped first grade xD
 
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Thanks again for doing this!

I'm a fourth year who will be applying to neurosurgery residencies this fall. You mentioned a few times that you had a family during residency, as somebody who is married and will be having kids during residency are there any specific things I should look for in a residency? Also, if you were applying to residency again, what features would you seek out in a residency (assuming that at this point I am hoping to go into academics)?

While I'm sure there is a lot of variability, do you know what a normal schedule for a junior faculty member is in academics? It seems like there is a lot of flexibility in private practice to find a setup that meets your goals/interests. I'm guessing that this is not as true for academics, but would love to hear your perspectives. Thanks!
 
I understand that if one wants to pursue research, academic institutions are the way to go. But is it possible to be in private practice and still do research? How would that work?
 
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