Any Asian-Chinese premeds out there? II

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heech said:
Thinking back a few years and trying to speak as a 21 year old, I could totally see what a lot of you guys are talking about. Most of us are already the cream of the crop academically, and will be cream of the crop financially soon enough. Why the heck shouldn't we be independent, right?

But now as a 28 year old, my perspectives are different. I'm successful professional, have a graduate degree from MIT, have more money than I know what to do with. I lived on a different coast from my parents for 6 years. But now I'm back... and I'm far, far closer ('emotionally dependent') on my parents today than I ever was as a teenager.

Why? Because I think this Chinese family '$hit' actually works. Seriously. You can't argue with results. Why are there so many damn successful Chinese (and east Asians)? Its not just coincidence. You wanna copy the "independent at 18" model cause thats' what you see on TV, that's what you see with a few friends? Go for it, I'm not the boss of you. But I see the successful Chinese family clans... the families that lean on each other, that rely on each other for advice and help, that turn to each other in times of need... and it all makes sense, now. My parents arent' "disrespecting me" by offering me advice and by staying on my ass... they have 3 decades more of life experience, and some of that stuff is actually still applicable (believe it or not!). And in exchange for this advice, I get the priviledge (and responsibility) of making sure my parents are taking care of later in life. That's just fine with me.

Yea, sometimes that communal and parental pressure sucks. But the best medicine doesn't always taste sweet, ya know. If you want your kids to one day have the same opportunities you have today, might make sense to learn from the model that created *you*.

I think the ones that are really in trouble are the ones that take advantage of the Chinese family's life of "priviledge"... but never learn the Chinese family's requirement for responsibility. You know, the kids driving BMWs but pulling down a 2.0 at the local JC. These kids are the ones that are gonna be hurt in the long run. The mama's boys (<- right here) that learn to apply themselves and face the world like a nanzihan dazhangfu? We'll be just fine.

Not Asian, but definitely agree. This is also the case with Jewish families. My mother pushes and gives advice (solicited and unsolicited) all the time. Usually she's right. I find that my mother has a social knack that keeps me from falling through the social cracks. Dad's usually laid back (pretending that he doesn't care), but when he gets really concerned, he'll just rile up my mom (who oftentimes is more calm in in these cases), and then she does the nagging-screaming dirty work for him.

I mean, if you think about it, this system has been the prevailing system in Europe, Asia, Africa (everywhere!) for thousands of years. It is only in the last hundred years or so (or less) that the phenomenon of "independent at 18" arose in urbanized areas of Europe and the United States. The vast majority of the world still operate by the old system. That said, I prefer to keep it at advice and encouragement, rather than coercion/harsh criticism by my old mother when I'm 40!

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medstudent123 said:
i think many of us struggle with finding 'ourselves' between the two clashing cultures. often the asian culture appears too conservative, backwards, and maybe suffocating, while the alluring 'mainstream american' culture promises individuality, freedom, and pursuit of happiness.

Interesting because the exact opposite characterized my childhood views of Chinese vs. American identity. I had/ve a romanticized view of the Chinese work ethic, personal sacrifice, and the value of perserverance as opposed to the "get rich quick", disrespectful, lazy or superficial American. My greatest fear was (still is) that I'm not Chinese enough.

In the end, it doesn't matter. Your identity isn't fixed in a false binary. There are good and bad aspects of both Chinese and American cultures. Pretty much the only reason I still struggle to define and re-define my identity is because I believe the journey is a life-long one worth undertaking.
 
mercaptovizadeh said:
Not Asian, but definitely agree. This is also the case with Jewish families.

Interestingly enough, my mother (in all her snooty ethno-centric-ness) freely admits that the Jewish culture is one of the few that she respects. I think largely because of the similar family values.
 
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lightnk102 said:
Interestingly enough, my mother (in all her snooty ethno-centric-ness) freely admits that the Jewish culture is one of the few that she respects. I think largely because of the similar family values.

really :laugh:
from my experience, most older asians are anti-semitic, esp. because they're so similar (=competition!)

but too bad for them, b/c I already know I will marry a jewish guy :love:
 
I hear so much about chinese families in this post. Chinese people aint the only one succeeding in the medical field.
 
mynameistino said:
I hear so much about chinese families in this post. Chinese people aint the only one succeeding in the medical field.

well considering the title of the thread, you should expect that :rolleyes:

I think a lot of the posters on here are grateful to their culturally-instilled values of diligence and parental-submission for helping them to succeed in their educational pursuits leading to a succesful career such as medicine. But I agree w/ you in that most everyone entering medical school has good work-ethic, intelligence, and ambition--which should be mostly innate, not taught-- and that chinese people may be startled to find that they no longer have any advantage in the values their parents so lovingly imbued them with.
 
lightnk102 said:
Interestingly enough, my mother (in all her snooty ethno-centric-ness) freely admits that the Jewish culture is one of the few that she respects. I think largely because of the similar family values.

Sorry if there's been any misunderstanding but I'm not Jewish. I'm Christian and my roots are Slavic Eastern European. Regardless, I have been somewhat influenced by Jewish culture because I was born in this community and my mother adopted some of its customs, i.e. no eating pork, no mixing of specifically lamb with milk (but by no means kosher), no consumption of blood, and a special reverence for Saturday. In addition, I find that my mother's ethic regarding education/success and general demeanor towards her children (her passion and obsession), is highly reminiscent of traditional Jewish immigrant mothers. In fact, we've been mistaken for being Jewish by quite a number of people, including our dermatologist who kept on asking "What are you going to get for Chanukah?" I though this funny, because it was his immediate assumption, even though he should have asked about Christmas instead (not that I actually got gifts for Christmas either, but that's another story)!

Anyway, I don't think it is a particularly Jewish or Asian thing, but rather something that occurs in cultures/groups with strong family values that feel insecure and feel that they have to prove themselves and/or assure their success in some way. My case is that of an immigrant family who closely mirrors the Asian/Jewish case. Another example are Mormons (usually WASPS) who are generally high profile and do well in school. Ultimately, I think this sense of need to succeed/prove oneself dissapates through the generations, which accounts for less of this "drive for success" in successive generations of Asian-Americans, Irish-Americans, Russian-Americans, Jewish-Americans, etc.

Regarding funshine's point, I agree, I have noticed that a lot of especially south Asians dislike Jews, primarily for competitive reasons. I also know of two cases personally of east Asian women who ended up with Jewish men or were the daughters of such a mixed marriage (one Chinese, the other Japanese), so don't give up hope funshine, if that is what you are really after ;)
 
funshine said:
well considering the title of the thread, you should expect that :rolleyes:

I think a lot of the posters on here are grateful to their culturally-instilled values of diligence and parental-submission for helping them to succeed in their educational pursuits leading to a succesful career such as medicine. But I agree w/ you in that most everyone entering medical school has good work-ethic, intelligence, and ambition--which should be mostly innate, not taught-- and that chinese people may be startled to find that they no longer have any advantage in the values their parents so lovingly imbued them with.


The Title doesnt just say chinese. :rolleyes:
 
mercaptovizadeh said:
Sorry if there's been any misunderstanding but I'm not Jewish. I'm Christian and my roots are Slavic Eastern European. Regardless, I have been somewhat influenced by Jewish culture because I was born in this community and my mother adopted some of its customs, i.e. no eating pork, no mixing of specifically lamb with milk (but by no means kosher), no consumption of blood, and a special reverence for Saturday. In addition, I find that my mother's ethic regarding education/success and general demeanor towards her children (her passion and obsession), is highly reminiscent of traditional Jewish immigrant mothers. In fact, we've been mistaken for being Jewish by quite a number of people, including our dermatologist who kept on asking "What are you going to get for Chanukah?" I though this funny, because it was his immediate assumption, even though he should have asked about Christmas instead (not that I actually got gifts for Christmas either, but that's another story)!

Anyway, I don't think it is a particularly Jewish or Asian thing, but rather something that occurs in cultures/groups with strong family values that feel insecure and feel that they have to prove themselves and/or assure their success in some way. My case is that of an immigrant family who closely mirrors the Asian/Jewish case. Another example are Mormons (usually WASPS) who are generally high profile and do well in school. Ultimately, I think this sense of need to succeed/prove oneself dissapates through the generations, which accounts for less of this "drive for success" in successive generations of Asian-Americans, Irish-Americans, Russian-Americans, Jewish-Americans, etc.

Regarding funshine's point, I agree, I have noticed that a lot of especially south Asians dislike Jews, primarily for competitive reasons. I also know of two cases personally of east Asian women who ended up with Jewish men or were the daughters of such a mixed marriage (one Chinese, the other Japanese), so don't give up hope funshine, if that is what you are really after ;)

:) i am well-aware of the numerous jewish-asian couplings out there...yay!
I remember reading an article about how jewish mothers are very unhappy that their darling sons aren't marrying nice jewish girls but are instead settling w/ us inferior asians instead :rolleyes:
 
mynameistino said:
The Title doesnt just say chinese. :rolleyes:

I originally thought the OP was confused and meant Chinese-Asian (which would mean Chinese, exclusively) but I guess he could have meant Chinese/Asian which would mean either/or.

Anyway, can't believe I just posted about such a petty thing :D
good nite
 
You guys should all watch Nobody Knows, a Japanese film about 4 kids who are abandoned by their mom.

It's a really beautiful movie, and you can see there is a huge difference in the way asian children behave compared to american children.

Seeing the smiles/expressions on their faces reminded me so much of the little kids I had grown up with, and it was really nostalgic in a way that a movie about white kids would never be for me. The movie is sad, obviously, but there is so much warmth and joy in the interaction between the children, which I think a lot of the non-asian audience missed. I noticed that my friend from Hong Kong and I were the only two ppl who laughed during the subtly funny parts.
Anyway, I recommend it for you guys especially because you've all grown up in asian families and might be able to better appreciate it.

The trailer is here:

http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/nobody_knows_daremo_shiranai.html

It's only being released in certain cities, so if you're lucky enough to live in one of them, go watch it! :)
 
Who here is first generation Asian-American and remembered much of their immigrant experience? I think my (and my family's) experience with poverty, working in labor jobs, language barrier, and other typical immigrant difficulties have made my values so much more "asian". Personally, I think it's great that most Asian parents stress financial security and things like that... they're just trying to save their own children from making any "mistakes" and push them onto a path that is more safe (i.e. medicine). That said, I can see how it can be oppressing to have your parents dictate your life; sometimes, people need to follow their own path even if it does prove to be a failure in the end. I think that it can be hard for second generation Asian Americans to understand their parents' intentions, especially if they had grown up in a good, stable environment.

I'd have to say that I would likely become a typical Asian parent. I would encourage my kids to do music/sports/etc at an early age (never had the chance to do that personally), and I may raise an eyebrow if they decide to major in something impractical in college with my hard-earned tuition money :smuggrin: . I wouldn't push them towards medicine though. My own parents initially did not think that it was possible for me to excel enough to enter medicine; they suggested pharmacy instead... but go figure :)


mynameistino said:
I hear so much about chinese families in this post. Chinese people aint the only one succeeding in the medical field.
That's right, Vietnamese people represent :thumbup: . Where you headed for med school, tino?
 
funshine said:
I originally thought the OP was confused and meant Chinese-Asian (which would mean Chinese, exclusively) but I guess he could have meant Chinese/Asian which would mean either/or.

Anyway, can't believe I just posted about such a petty thing :D
good nite

I am the OP of the thread. Read the sig. The original thread got locked and I wasn't the OP. I just copied the thread title and don't know what the OP of part I meant. IMHO, it means either/or.
 
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funshine said:
:) i am well-aware of the numerous jewish-asian couplings out there...yay!
I remember reading an article about how jewish mothers are very unhappy that their darling sons aren't marrying nice jewish girls but are instead settling w/ us inferior asians instead :rolleyes:

i second your 'yay' funshine.
but just to be fair, my ex's mom was very unhappy with her darling asian son wanting to marry me, a nice jewish girl, instead of a superior asian woman...so sadly,...i think it swings both ways.

boo on bigotry. :)
 
You know what guys...interesting that you bring the whole jewish-chinese couple topic up cause my mom tells me I should either marry Chinese or find a nice Jewish guy!!! She tells me jewish guys treat their wives like princesses!
 
rjphila said:
i second your 'yay' funshine.
but just to be fair, my ex's mom was very unhappy with her darling asian son wanting to marry me, a nice jewish girl, instead of a superior asian woman...so sadly,...i think it swings both ways.

boo on bigotry. :)

It may swing both ways, but isn't it true that one way predominates? That is, it is more likely that non-asian men marry asian women rather than asian men marrying non-asian women?
 
palminator2003 said:
It may swing both ways, but isn't it true that one way predominates? That is, it is more likely that non-asian men marry asian women rather than asian men marrying non-asian women?

Yup. Absolutely true palminator. I think that phenomenon (the imbalance) is troubling on lots of different sociological levels, but yes, agreed. But it doesn't make Jewish mothers any more prejudicial than Asian mothers.
 
Wow, didn't realize that this thread (and some of my earlier comments) was still generating a lot of discussion. There were a few thoughts I wanted to share from day one, but this seems like a good time to get back to them.

I don't think it makes sense, by any stretch of the imagination, to deify an idealized version of the Chinese family ethic. There are some very bad Chinese families, and there's a little bit of bad in every Chinese family. Speaking as members of the human race first and foremost, that should be a given. And just hearing from many of the other stories here, we get more conclusive proof that there's plenty of diversity in the Chinese community. And there's no way to equalize our experiences... even the description "oppressive" or "dictatorial" is a very relative one. One man's "oppression" is another man's "structured childhood".

So, I'm really not going to preach any specific act/belief. I just hope my Chinese brothas/sistas out there (and everyone else too) keep an open, analytical mind about some of the positive values of Chinese culture, as well as the negative values of mainstream American culture, when considering your future paths.

If economic and professional excellence is important to you (I'm not assuming this as a given)... I'd point out the Chinese culture/community (and Jewish, I might mention) have, over time, come to take on leading economic/professional roles in every society in which they were present in large enough numbers.

If you want to become a good medical doctor, you aspire to Harvard. You do so not because you agree with every aspect of Harvard's curriculum... but because you believe that Harvard has proven, through the years, to have the right system/rules for training excellent doctors. Why not apply the same rules to professional/family/relationship success in your own life?
 
rjphila said:
Yup. Absolutely true palminator. I think that phenomenon (the imbalance) is troubling on lots of different sociological levels, but yes, agreed. But it doesn't make Jewish mothers any more prejudicial than Asian mothers.


Oh my, I'd love for you to explain why Asian women marrying non-Asian men is troubling. Personally, I never viewed it negatively. :)
 
Qemmalee said:
Oh my, I'd love for you to explain why Asian women marrying non-Asian men is troubling. Personally, I never viewed it negatively. :)

oh my dear, there are so many reasons why it can be troubling
 
Obviously it is quite troubling to Asian men from a purely evolutionary/procreative standpoint, wouldn't you say? :scared:
 
im from china. yay! anyways i only read the first page too lazy to read the middle pages. im at a school with like 90% white ppl, one of those small liberal arts schools, my only choices are white girls. so far so good. anyways everyone expect you to succeed if you are asian and premed, but its def not that easy, and my (obviously chinese) parents dont understand that too well.
 
\

Hahah...this will be an interesting new years :laugh: :smuggrin:
 
bumping for the premeds this year
 
i once got a B in high school...my parents didn't feed me for a week because they said i was unworthy of food.
 
DrHuang said:
i once got a B in high school...my parents didn't feed me for a week because they said i was unworthy of food.

I got a B once. My parents ate my dog.
 
You have no idea how many times I've heard that said about Chinese people. Everyone watches the Travel Channel and then run off to ask their Chinese friends "Do you eat (insert strange delicacy here)? That's disgusting!"
 
Pkboi24 said:
You have no idea how many times I've heard that said about Chinese people. Everyone watches the Travel Channel and then run off to ask their Chinese friends "Do you eat (insert strange delicacy here)? That's disgusting!"

i eat pigs blood cake (direct translation) in hotpot and i dont care what people say...that stuff is GOOOOOOOD!
 
DrHuang said:
i eat pigs blood cake (direct translation) in hotpot and i dont care what people say...that stuff is GOOOOOOOD!

Oh man I know, I love that stuff. You know what else I love to eat? Fetuses.

See, it's **** like that that gets us in trouble...
 
Pkboi24 said:
You have no idea how many times I've heard that said about Chinese people. Everyone watches the Travel Channel and then run off to ask their Chinese friends "Do you eat (insert strange delicacy here)? That's disgusting!"

They do ask me that, and too often the answer is, "yes". :laugh: You know what's really good? Sea cucumber.
 
Pkboi24 said:
You have no idea how many times I've heard that said about Chinese people. Everyone watches the Travel Channel and then run off to ask their Chinese friends "Do you eat (insert strange delicacy here)? That's disgusting!"

Those people are hypocrites, assuming they are not vegetarians. How is a dog different from a chicken or cow?
 
silkworm said:
Those people are hypocrites, assuming they are not vegetarians. How is a dog different from a chicken or cow?

meh, thats how people are...i mean, i think 'omg...the french are savages! they eat frogs!". well, not really, but i do think eating frog is weird!
 
DrHuang said:
meh, thats how people are...i mean, i think 'omg...the french are savages! they eat frogs!". well, not really, but i do think eating frog is weird!

To bring this back to something medically related. I was volunteering at a hospital and the Asian surgeon there was really interested in my pursuit of medicine. I didn't ask him for a rec or anything since we only spoke a few times, but I think it's great that he was trying to help me out. He probably thought "He's just like me when I was his age."

Someone should start a "Asian-American Pre-med mentorship program" where docs give a hand-up to their aspiring young proteges. There's not enough Asian people here in Texas, but I think you could definitely pull this off on the coasts or even Chicago.
 
Pkboi24 said:
Oh man I know, I love that stuff. You know what else I love to eat? Fetuses.

See, it's **** like that that gets us in trouble...

You KILLED me with that one :laugh:
 
Pkboi24 said:
To bring this back to something medically related. I was volunteering at a hospital and the Asian surgeon there was really interested in my pursuit of medicine. I didn't ask him for a rec or anything since we only spoke a few times, but I think it's great that he was trying to help me out. He probably thought "He's just like me when I was his age."

Someone should start a "Asian-American Pre-med mentorship program" where docs give a hand-up to their aspiring young proteges. There's not enough Asian people here in Texas, but I think you could definitely pull this off on the coasts or even Chicago.
There really should be one. We're no longer considered a minority, yet I still feel a bias against Asians.
 
HemaOncoDoc said:
There really should be one. We're no longer considered a minority, yet I still feel a bias against Asians.

I think it has something to do with the fact that Asians (every kind of Asian) make up only 3.9% of the entire US population. I'm looking forward to medical school where it will be something like 25%.

The other day someone referred to me as "Oriental". I kung fu chopped him in the mouth and he hasn't said a word since.
 
25% even in texas state schools. I didn't know the % was that prominent. Stats like that are encouraging.

That karate chop will be handy in med school. :thumbup:
 
HemaOncoDoc said:
25% even in texas state schools. I didn't know the % was that prominent. Stats like that are encouraging.

That karate chop will be handy in med school. :thumbup:

Hema where are you from?

I heard at UCLA for the first time this year, there are more Asian freshmen than white.

I honestly could not imagine what that would feel like.

I go to UT-Austin and grew up in Houston.

I suppose I'm lucky in a way to not live in CA. I'd never get into med school there.
 
DrHuang said:
i eat pigs blood cake (direct translation) in hotpot and i dont care what people say...that stuff is GOOOOOOOD!

i'm SO bringing my hotpot to med school.
 
Pkboi24 said:
Hema where are you from?

I heard at UCLA for the first time this year, there are more Asian freshmen than white.

I honestly could not imagine what that would feel like.

I go to UT-Austin and grew up in Houston.

I suppose I'm lucky in a way to not live in CA. I'd never get into med school there.

i went to ucla...i always thought the asians outnumered the whites but i could be wrong
 
that's kinda why i want to go to UCLA. i feel like i need there to be a chinatown nearby, and people i walk past in the hallways and on the streets who are screaming away in my sweet, loud, rude cantonese. and friends who will sit with me and watch hk dramas for hours. without that feeling i think i'll just feel homesick for 4 years.
 
Pkboi24 said:
Hema where are you from?

I heard at UCLA for the first time this year, there are more Asian freshmen than white.

I honestly could not imagine what that would feel like.

I go to UT-Austin and grew up in Houston.

I suppose I'm lucky in a way to not live in CA. I'd never get into med school there.
I'm from Massachusetts, near Boston. The only medical schools I've visited have been from the area, so I guess I can't generalize like I have. However, the ones that I did visit, I didn't encounter more than a dozen Asians. I would like to have a home base whereever I go to medical school. Its refreshing to know that there's a good Asian population in med school.
 
pattayapus said:
that's kinda why i want to go to UCLA. i feel like i need there to be a chinatown nearby, and people i walk past in the hallways and on the streets who are screaming away in my sweet, loud, rude cantonese. and friends who will sit with me and watch hk dramas for hours. without that feeling i think i'll just feel homesick for 4 years.
I can't speak for UCLA, but in Boston, Tufts medical is situated in Chinatown. So, the Asians outnumber the whites here. Good cheap eats. That probably pales in comparison to Cali Chinatown though.
 
You guys should all come to TX. It's cheap and every thur could be hot-pot + movie night.
 
Pkboi24 said:
You guys should all come to TX. It's cheap and every thur could be hot-pot + movie night.
I'm hungry now. Thanks a lot!

I won't be able to gain residency before I apply to Texas schools though. You're lucky in that sense. You're a prime candidate for the T...whatchamacallit.
 
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