MD & DO Any chance?

[mcatdesire]

Stats:
cGPA: 3.0 sGPA: 3.0 ; cGPA: 3.2 sGPA: 3.2
MCAT: 17; 495
Resident of NY

P.S. Took me 4 attempts to do well in organic chemistry (F, F, C-, A).

ECs:
500 hours of hospital volunteering
150 hours of non-hospital volunteering

I'm in my last semester of undergrad. I took the new mcat, doing fairely well on practice exams (avg~505) but wasn't feeling well on my test day (should have voided). Anyways, I'm not quite sure if I have a chance at any MD or DO schools (probably not the new ones either). I'm considering retaking the mcat but not sure how a 3rd attempt would look (is it even worth it if I was able to get around a 505?). Maybe I should consider applying to the Caribbean; I'm familiar with all the advice against it but it might be the only way I'll be able to follow the path towards medicine. Any advice would be appreciated.

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[candbgirl]

Whatever you decide do not go to the Caribbean. You are the exact kind of person that they prey on. They might accept you, take your money for a few semesters and then dump you. You would be out several hundred thousand dollars that you'd have to pay back and no medical degree. From your low GPAs and and really, really low MCAT scores and the fact that it took you 4 tries to conquer OChem you really haven't shown any ability to succeed in Med School. You need to look at other options before you make any decision .


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[mcatdesire]

Whatever you decide do not go to the Caribbean. You are the exact kind of person that they prey on. They might accept you, take your money for a few semesters and then dump you. You would be out several hundred thousand dollars that you'd have to pay back and no medical degree. From your low GPAs and and really, really low MCAT scores and the fact that it took you 4 tries to conquer OChem you really haven't shown any ability to succeed in Med School. You need to look at other options before you make any decision .


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That was exactly my train of thought. What other options do you have in mind? I looked at post-bacc programs but that would delay me another 2 years before even starting medical school.

 

[el_duderino]

What did you do differently to go from a C- to an A in O Chem?

A 3.2 cGPA and sGPA, with grade replacement, and a 33rd percentile MCAT aren't really compatible with the type of student who would succeed in med school, let alone a Caribbean school. Caribbean schools don't really care if you actually succeed and offer very little in terms of student support compared to American schools, whose accreditation is dependent on very high graduation rates.

Even if you kill the MCAT on your third attempt, it looks rather grim. Did you take full-length practice exams? How did you do?

The only way forward I really see is to take the time to properly prepare for the MCAT and make sure you're going to get a 510+ then do a post-bacc or SMP. You still need to prove you have the background and intelligence (MCAT) and the will and drive to do well in sustained academic persuits (post-bacc/SMP).

You have one shot left, and you need to hit a home run. Take the time to prepare and get yourself in the right place to succeed.

 

[KungFuPanda123]

You'd have to really, really boost up your MCAT, and a fourth attempt looks very meh if you want to be considered by DO schools with your GPA. I think the bigger issue is if you would be able to succeed/be happy in medical school. There aren't as many chances to retake courses/the boards as you would get as an undergrad/the MCAT

 

[mcatdesire]

What did you do differently to go from a C- to an A in O Chem?

A 3.2 cGPA and sGPA, with grade replacement, and a 33rd percentile MCAT aren't really compatible with the type of student who would succeed in med school, let alone a Caribbean school. Caribbean schools don't really care if you actually succeed and offer very little in terms of student support compared to American schools, whose accreditation is dependent on very high graduation rates.

Even if you kill the MCAT on your third attempt, it looks rather grim. Did you take full-length practice exams? How did you do?

The only way forward I really see is to take the time to properly prepare for the MCAT and make sure you're going to get a 510+ then do a post-bacc or SMP. You still need to prove you have the background and intelligence (MCAT) and the will and drive to do well in sustained academic persuits (post-bacc/SMP).

You have one shot left, and you need to hit a home run. Take the time to prepare and get yourself in the right place to succeed.

I was averaging around ~505 on my practice exams. I knew the actual exam was harder and didn't go quite as I wanted but still had it scored I usually didn't bother doing any work for the classes hence the low grades but once I started putting effort into studying in advance, my grades went up. My only concern is that if I get a 505 on my next attempted mcat (only saying this because its a realistic score based on my practice exam averages), would I have a chance at DO schools without any post-bacc or SMP programs?

 

[gyngyn]

That was exactly my train of thought. What other options do you have in mind? I looked at post-bacc programs but that would delay me another 2 years before even starting medical school.

There are many other ways to be of service in health care: OT, PT, PA, Podiatry, Optometry, Audiology, Social Services, Psychology, Nursing, Public Health, technologists of every type (e.g. ultrasound, X-ray, respiratory therapy)...

With your current situation you are far more than 2 years from putting together a successful application for MD, though. Maybe DO is a consideration with a lot of work.

 

[DO2015CA]

No question you have to take it again and if you can get a 503-505+ then apply to SMP. Usually SMP is a last ditch effort but you've already retaken classes and have 2 low scores. It's your only option but it's only an option if you can prove that you can do it on the mcat.


If you can't then apply to podiatry with 495 before Carib.

 

[kelminak]

People are against the Caribbean because it's likely not going to be a viable way to become a doctor in the future. You need to *really* iron out your issues with the MCAT and knock it out of the park. Your GPA is too low to have an MCAT that bad. That's close to a 22, which isn't remotely viable for DO schools. Going from a 495 to 505 would be like a 22 -> 29 leap. Spend some time on the MCAT forums, find a study plan, and seriously stick to it. With a high MCAT, you could have a shot at DO. Don't sell yourself short and go down the easy path to being a doctor. If you can't study and handle the MCAT, you're going to get demolished in medical school if take the cop out Caribbean plan.

 

[el_duderino]

I was averaging around ~505 on my practice exams. I knew the actual exam was harder and didn't go quite as I wanted but still had it scored I usually didn't bother doing any work for the classes hence the low grades but once I started putting effort into studying in advance, my grades went up. My only concern is that if I get a 505 on my next attempted mcat (only saying this because its a realistic score based on my practice exam averages), would I have a chance at DO schools without any post-bacc or SMP programs?

You scored a full 10 points lower on your retake than you were getting on your practice exams? Were you doing full-length AAMC exams in one sitting?

I don't think a 505 on a third try, with a 3.2 c+sGPA with grade replacement and a history of failing prereqs multiple times, will be of much use to you by itself.

Your MCAT is lethal, but it's not the only lethal aspect of your current resume. More than one thing needs to be fixed before you have a shot. Literally nothing about you so far indicates that you are prepared or able to succeed in medical school.

 

[mcatdesire]

No question you have to take it again and if you can get a 503-505+ then apply to SMP. Usually SMP is a last ditch effort but you've already retaken classes and have 2 low scores. It's your only option but it's only an option if you can prove that you can do it on the mcat.


If you can't then apply to podiatry with 495 before Carib.

How good is podiatry. I'm not really familiar with the field but the thought of looking at people's feet all day long doesn't seem so great. I've read there are options to pursue surgery in this field as well.

 

[el_duderino]

You need to spend some time shadowing before you do anything else, really.

 

[DO2015CA]

Podiatry is podiatry, some people love it and some can't stand it. I am only posing the question if you cannot overcome your deficits to get a DO seat. Honestly, its all the same after a while a stinky person is a stinky person no matter if its their feet or they are unwashed. Podiatry does offer a good career with good salary, but like you said you will be dealing with ingrown toenails, diabetic neuropathies, and foot surgery.

For me it depends on what is the time worth to you to fix your application. Make sure you fix the holes prior to applying.

 

[candbgirl]

That was exactly my train of thought. What other options do you have in mind? I looked at post-bacc programs but that would delay me another 2 years before even starting medical school.

Frankly I wasn't thinking med school at all. Although you might be able to get your GPAS up a bit it most likely won't be enough to be competitive at MD schools ever. DO might be an option but considering that the MCAT and your two tries average is 19.5 it's doubtful. That score is not competitive anywhere.
There are many other health related careers available. You should research those and find something that might appeal to you.


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[mcatdesire]

Frankly I wasn't thinking med school at all. Although you might be able to get your GPAS up a bit it most likely won't be enough to be competitive at MD schools ever. DO might be an option but considering that the MCAT and your two tries average is 19.5 it's doubtful. That score is not competitive anywhere.
There are many other health related careers available. You should research those and find something that might appeal to you.


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I don't understand which type of students end up doing really well at the Caribbean. If they had the stats, why not just apply to US MD and DO schools? Aren't most students in similar position to me?

 

[edgerock24]

I was averaging around ~505 on my practice exams. I knew the actual exam was harder and didn't go quite as I wanted but still had it scored I usually didn't bother doing any work for the classes hence the low grades but once I started putting effort into studying in advance, my grades went up. My only concern is that if I get a 505 on my next attempted mcat (only saying this because its a realistic score based on my practice exam averages), would I have a chance at DO schools without any post-bacc or SMP programs?

Which practice exams were you using?

 

[KungFuPanda123]

I don't know how much the MCAT books have shaped up in the last year (bought the first editions for the new MCAT) for the first administration of the MCAT. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if there were still plenty of things missing from the practice tests and if the score you receive on them does not reflect what you should expect to receive on the real thing.

You really can only use the AAMC practice tests to get a clear understanding of what you should expect to receive on the real test. A 505 on a Kaplan or Princeton test could mean jack if you received like a 500 or sub-500 on the AAMC.

 

[gyngyn]

I don't understand which type of students end up doing really well at the Caribbean. If they had the stats, why not just apply to US MD and DO schools? Aren't most students in similar position to me?

They often have other flaws.

 

[Goro]

Some of the students who go to the Caribbean are those who may have what it takes to succeed in an American Medical SchooL, but have some other deficits like convictions, institutional actions, a desire for the MD degree and not DO; or ignorance of the latter degree, poor stats, and are probably unwilling to do what it takes to fix those deficits in order to get into an American medical school.

I don't understand which type of students end up doing really well at the Caribbean. If they had the stats, why not just apply to US MD and DO schools? Aren't most students in similar position to me?

 

[SPDF]

If you're confident in a significant improvement in an MCAT, I would take it again. A 3rd attempt isn't going to look that bad.
I'd try to retake even more classes though and doing really well in them. Taking the same class 4 times is a huge red flag.

 

[j4pac]

I would go all in with a review course. It's going to be pricy but you have already demonstrated that you will not be competitive with your own study plan. Is there anything else that can be done to improve your GPA?

 

[GypsyHummus]

Hey OP,

I was in your position a few years ago and really turned it around with my GPA. I went from a 3.0 science to a 3.4 within the span of a year and a half via retakes and doing science coursework. My MCAT is worse than yours, but I am still fighting. Ill explain to you my thought process:

You took Organic 4 times before you finally got an A. I took it 3 before I earned mine. Years and thousands of dollars later I was finally competitive for DO school and then I bombed the MCAT. I could give up, wallow in self pity, apply to podiatry or pharmacy school and that would be the end of it. Podiatry is a great career, and while pharmacy use to be, you can still make 110K+ after 4 years, great life. I choose to make a stand, for good or for ill. I will not let this test dictate my entire future. I am not a victim of the MCAT, and I am NOT a statistical percentile to be written off. If this is what you want, do NOT let the MCAT hold you back. You have worked too hard for one test to completely destroy your chances of becoming a physician.

That being said, look into podiatry, heck even dentistry.

 

[KungFuPanda123]

.

 

[edgerock24]

Hey OP,

I was in your position a few years ago and really turned it around with my GPA. I went from a 3.0 science to a 3.4 within the span of a year and a half via retakes and doing science coursework. My MCAT is worse than yours, but I am still fighting. Ill explain to you my thought process:

You took Organic 4 times before you finally got an A. I took it 3 before I earned mine. Years and thousands of dollars later I was finally competitive for DO school and then I bombed the MCAT. I could give up, wallow in self pity, apply to podiatry or pharmacy school and that would be the end of it. Podiatry is a great career, and while pharmacy use to be, you can still make 110K+ after 4 years, great life. I choose to make a stand, for good or for ill. I will not let this test dictate my entire future. I am not a victim of the MCAT, and I am NOT a statistical percentile to be written off. If this is what you want, do NOT let the MCAT hold you back. You have worked too hard for one test to completely destroy your chances of becoming a physician.

That being said, look into podiatry, heck even dentistry.

This is great feedback. Many people believe that the MCAT is some sort of IQ test. While I do believe everybody has their plateaus, I do think that anyone who gets through the prereqs with some sort of fundamentals down can achieve a score in the 25-27 range (500-503) with intelligent preparation. A 503 specifically, is a pretty solid score. Some of the neurotic users on this website (most of them can be found in pre-allo) might disagree.

 

[QueenJames]

If you can get your GPA up past 3.6 by doing more grade replacement and padding your GPA with classes and get your MCAT up to a 27+... get a DO LOR... and apply early and broadly... you SHOULD get an interview.. but you are gonna have to definitely sit this next app season out.

 

[mcatdesire]

The students who go to the Caribbeaare those who may have What it takes to succeed in an American Medical SchooL, but have some other deficits like convictions, institutional actions, a desire for the MD degree and not DO, Where ignorance of the latter degree, poor stats, and are probably unwilling to do what it takes to fix those deficits in order to get into an American Medical School.

Was hoping Goro would chip in. Would you say I'd have a decent chance in the next cycle if I retook the mcat (assuming I score ~505 since that's what I was averaging) in May and applied in June for DO schools?

 

[mcatdesire]

Which practice exams were you using?

Nextstep and AAMC

 

[mcatdesire]

Hey OP,

I was in your position a few years ago and really turned it around with my GPA. I went from a 3.0 science to a 3.4 within the span of a year and a half via retakes and doing science coursework. My MCAT is worse than yours, but I am still fighting. Ill explain to you my thought process:

You took Organic 4 times before you finally got an A. I took it 3 before I earned mine. Years and thousands of dollars later I was finally competitive for DO school and then I bombed the MCAT. I could give up, wallow in self pity, apply to podiatry or pharmacy school and that would be the end of it. Podiatry is a great career, and while pharmacy use to be, you can still make 110K+ after 4 years, great life. I choose to make a stand, for good or for ill. I will not let this test dictate my entire future. I am not a victim of the MCAT, and I am NOT a statistical percentile to be written off. If this is what you want, do NOT let the MCAT hold you back. You have worked too hard for one test to completely destroy your chances of becoming a physician.

That being said, look into podiatry, heck even dentistry.

Thanks for the motivation but you didn't mention where you ended up ; was hoping you'd tell me about some acceptances

 

[Goro]

Yes. Find a DO to shadow and it will also help.

Was hoping Goro would chip in. Would you say I'd have a decent chance in the next cycle if I retook the mcat (assuming I score ~505 since that's what I was averaging) in May and applied in June for DO schools?

 

[mcatdesire]

Yes. Find a DO to shadow and it will also help.

Thanks Goro. It definitely helps having this advice come from an adcom. Also, how badly will retaking orgo 4 times affect me? And besides shadowing, anything else I should do in these 2 months before application season?

 

[KungFuPanda123]

Nextstep and AAMC

Do NOT use Nextstep. They fake their reviews on Amazon, and their books are utter crap (lots of typos, etc.)

I would recommend that you use Examkrackers and Kaplan(or Princeton). Examkrackers really teaches you how to think/is concise. Kaplan/Princeton are more comprehensive; they have everything that you need (for the most part), but they don't necessarily teach you how to think - more so just blast you with info. They are good to really fill out your understanding of the material.

 

[Goro]

Lots of people have trouble with Orgo, don't sweat it.

Service volunteering always looks good

Thanks Goro. It definitely helps having this advice come from an adcom. Also, how badly will retaking orgo 4 times affect me? And besides shadowing, anything else I should do in these 2 months before application season?

 

[jojo58]

Your insistence on being a doctor makes you seem like prime Caribbean school material to me.

 

[mathnerd88]

OP, with your situation, I'm generally worried about you even if you got accepted into a medical school. Realize that there are limits to everything, and pushing to do something that will only go harder from here is not worth it. Med school is going to be much harder than orgo and you aren't going to be allowed four retakes.

Getting into medical school isn't easy, but finishing medical school and getting into a residency is even harder.

If you want to try your luck in the Caribbean, by all means go ahead. But realize that you may be just doing yourself a disservice when there's a high probability you'll fail out or cannot obtain a residency afterwards.

 

[TheOther]

OP, with your situation, I'm generally worried about you even if you got accepted into a medical school. Realize that there are limits to everything, and pushing to do something that will only go harder from here is not worth it.

Getting into medical school isn't easy, but finishing medical school and getting into a residency is even harder.

If you want to try your luck in the Caribbean, by all means go ahead. But realize that you may be just doing yourself a disservice when there's a high probability you'll fail out or cannot obtain a residency afterwards.

Not only this, but you'd be in a much worse place than where you are now - with a mountain of debt.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Thanks for the motivation but you didn't mention where you ended up ; was hoping you'd tell me about some acceptances

Ill PM you.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I've merged this thread with the one from pre-osteo so that they're in the same place. Please note that cross posting the same topic in multiple forums is not allowed. Thanks