Any comments about NYU and advice needed

AskJeeves

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Dec 20, 2009
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    how do people on pass/fail systems get chosen for specializing?

    That's where the reputation of the school plays a major role. Honestly, the hardest part about Harvard Dental is getting in, just like it is with any other great institution. Because there are only 35 students at Harvard, they can afford to have a pass/fail system where everyone that graduates has a great shot at doing what they want to do. People who want to go into certain specializations would do what's generally required: research in that area, networking with professionals, etc.
     
    Helping people is a given. Its why I chose a health profession. However, the money issue played a big part in my decision towards dentistry over medicine. My issue is what kind of effect a 350,000 dollar loan will have on my family life and family economic situation. I'm only 21 years old. Maybe waiting another year won't have such a big effect in the long-run if i could save a couple hundred thousand dollars. However, since we have all chosen dentistry, maybe it won't make such a difference and I should get started now. But now my expected income has suddenly halved.
     
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    THINKOFMYFUTURE

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      I see a lot of small folks in this thread concerned about how other small folks perceive them.

      This reinforces the fact that even among those bound to be highly educated there exists a leading class of elites, and those destined to follow. Frivolous banter on the prestige of different dental schools is the signature characteristic of the miserable latter.

      Success and happiness begins and ends with one's attitude: it's a pity to see so few on SDN worthy of it.
       
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      Again, its very pretty that you think that success is determined by one's attitude. You should make a poster with some penguins and sell it to elementary schools. Unfortunately, the way the real world works is based on other people's opinions. The schools you're accepted to, your job, your interaction with other people (which I hope you do), all based on other people's opinion. Not your attitude. Its a fact. Grow up.

      How many schools AREN'T pass/fail?
       

      AskJeeves

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        Say what you will, but there is a reason why certain schools are much more selective than others. And certain schools do a really good job of catering to the students' needs while others do not do as good a job. It's the same in all walks of life, be it medical school, law school, business school, etc.
         

        AskJeeves

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        Dec 20, 2009
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          Again, its very pretty that you think that success is determined by one's attitude. You should make a poster with some penguins and sell it to elementary schools. Unfortunately, the way the real world works is based on people's opinions. The schools your accepted to, your job, your interaction with other people (which I hope you do) all based on other people's opinion. Not your attitude. Its a fact. Grow up.

          How many schools AREN'T pass/fail?

          Precisely . . .
           

          gegogi

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            Again, its very pretty that you think that success is determined by one's attitude. You should make a poster with some penguins and sell it to elementary schools. Unfortunately, the way the real world works is based on other people's opinions. The schools you're accepted to, your job, your interaction with other people (which I hope you do), all based on other people's opinion. Not your attitude. Its a fact. Grow up.

            How many schools AREN'T pass/fail?

            Sorry but I should say it's not what the real world works. Your attitude and your own performance are the only factor.
             

            AskJeeves

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            Dec 20, 2009
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              Penn's class of 2009 had 12 grads (out of 128) pursuing Ortho. Columbia's 2010 class had 10 (out of 75) pursuing Ortho. I can't find the brochure that Harvard gave us at the moment. I had a friend who went to NYU dental and was top 10% in his class and he said it was nearly impossible to get into Ortho from NYU. I don't know what it takes to specialize yet since I start school this summer. But the numbers coming from Upenn and Columbia look really good. Upenn (2009) has 6 in OMFS and Columbia had 9 (2010). Columbia looks like a great school for specializations with over a quarter (19 of 75) specializing in the most competitive specializations. Schools like NYU are good if you want to just practice right away. But I have to admit, Ortho is awesome (great pay, low stress, great hours) and OMFS is awesome too (you are an actual MD).
               

              AskJeeves

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              Dec 20, 2009
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                How many schools AREN'T pass/fail?

                Most schools are not pass/fail. Only a very small number of schools are pass/fail. I know that Harvard, Columbia and UCSF are pass/fail. Upenn is not pass/fail. I have not heard of anyone failing at Harvard or Columbia and that may be due to the pass/fail system. I do know people that have failed out of Upenn.
                 
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                AskJeeves

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                Dec 20, 2009
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                  Where did u find those stats? I'm really looking to specialize, maybe for that reason alone its worth waiting a year. although i hope to be in at least the top ten percent of the class. especially with the reputation for the lower quality students. that was one of the reasons i was afraid to apply to the better schools. i didnt know they were pass fail...

                  Penn gave us a sheet with the info during the interview. Columbia posted their info on their website. Harvard gave it to us but I can't remember where I put it. I'm not sure that I want to specialize yet but it's good to know that the option is reasonably available. I put down multiple deposits and I have to decide very soon.
                   

                  pawkinlot

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                  Aug 8, 2009
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                    No one is going to look down at you for being at NYU. They just won't look at you the way they would someone at Harvard, Upenn or Columbia. But they definitely will not look down at you.

                    How many people ask their doctors what school they went to prior to getting any care from them? :oops:

                    I didnt know people called around making sure their dentist or regular doctor went to a school that satisfies them.
                     

                    AskJeeves

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                    Dec 20, 2009
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                      How many people ask their doctors what school they went to prior to getting any care from them? :oops:

                      I didnt know people called around making sure their dentist or regular doctor went to a school that satisfies them.

                      I don't think we were talking about patients. I think we were referring to peer schools, colleagues and residency/specialty programs. Once you get into a specialty program, I agree, no one cares where you went to school. The hard part is actually landing in the program.
                       

                      dmd87

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                      May 21, 2009
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                        in this day and age, i don't think it is particularly worth specializing. as a GP, you can do ortho endo and some surg work, and alot of Gp's are doing this. if you are doing the specialty for the money, i don't think its worth it.
                         

                        AskJeeves

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                        Dec 20, 2009
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                          in this day and age, i don't think it is particularly worth specializing. as a GP, you can do ortho endo and some surg work, and alot of Gp's are doing this. if you are doing the specialty for the money, i don't think its worth it.

                          I have heard this a lot, but isn't it true that an Orthodontist will make more money from an orthodontic procedure than a GP will from the same procedure? Also, how reasonable is it for a GP to perform Ortho work? All of my friends who are dentists always tell me that they can do Ortho if they get certified, but they never do and always refer cases out to an Orthodontist.
                           

                          THINKOFMYFUTURE

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                            You and AskJeeves have been trolling not only against NYU but also Temple, for many nights and days, and too long.

                            Unfortunately, the way the real world works is based on other people's opinions.

                            This is quite simply the stupidest thing I have ever heard. My opinion of you is pretty rock-bottom.

                            Again, its very pretty that you think that success is determined by one's attitude...

                            No, success is determined by other people's opinions, amirite?


                            When you two run out of what few brain cells your parents gave you (most likely by accident), please do us a favor and change your career paths from dental school to something more applicable to your abilities, such as circus clowning.

                            By the way, every person I have talked to upon hearing the NYU name assumes it is a prestigious school. Not that I care really, but for the average Joe and Jane (your patients, if they even care), as of yet and probably for long, this name carries more weight than say Penn or Pacific, and perhaps on par with Columbia. After that it is all up to your know-how and skill in practicing dentistry that will make your patients happy.

                            If you want to specialize, then certain schools may seem easier, but it isn't impossible to get match of choice from NYU. There are students who go onto the most competitive specialties from NYU. No matter where, ability and attitude is necessary to reach specialization goals.

                            What's making these two troll so pathetically is because they wrongly think that it is only the opinions and considerations of other people that determine one's ability to specialize, which they equate with success. Their delusional beliefs make them reject the individual student's potential altogether:

                            The schools you're accepted to, your job, your interaction with other people (which I hope you do), all based on other people's opinion....


                            These are the facts that do not change. You're going to get what you put into from your education. There are other factors that need to be seriously considered aside from the quality of education, but, luckily, the ability to specialize, and of far greater importance to the majority of us, the way to becoming a capable, successful dentist does not hinge on whether or not one attends a so-called 'top' dental school.
                             
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                            Angle Jr.

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                              If you are someone who can take initiative and fully take advantage of the opportunities available to you, NYUCD is an excellent school for specializing. FYI, I personally know three people who recently got into Ivy League ortho residency program (2 Harvard and 1 Columbia) from NYUCD.

                              There is no denying that not as many people from NYUCD specialize compared to those Ivy-League dental schools. But whether or not you will be successful in getting into ortho, for example, ultimately depends on whether or not you can flourish at the dental school you attend and build up credentials to enhance your candidacy. NYUCD certainly offers excellent environment for those who want to specialize.

                              I got accepted to my first choice ortho residency program, and I really owe my success to the opportunities NYUCD offered to me. I say coming to NYUCD was the best decision I made because the school has given me every opportunity in the world that I needed to realize what I wanted in my life. I am not the only one who says this; I heard someone who got into ortho from NYUCD say exactly the same thing.

                              Just my two cents.
                               

                              AskJeeves

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                              Dec 20, 2009
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                                You and AskJeeves have been trolling not only against NYU but also Temple, for many nights and days, and too long.



                                This is quite simply the stupidest thing I have ever heard. My opinion of you is pretty rock-bottom.



                                No, success is determined by other people's opinions, amirite?


                                When you two run out of what few brain cells your parents gave you (most likely by accident), please do us a favor and change your career paths from dental school to something more applicable to your abilities, such as circus clowning.

                                By the way, every person I have talked to upon hearing the NYU name assumes it is a prestigious school. Not that I care really, but for the average Joe and Jane (your patients, if they even care), as of yet and probably for long, this name carries more weight than say Penn or Pacific, and perhaps on par with Columbia. After that it is all up to your know-how and skill in practicing dentistry that will make your patients happy.

                                If you want to specialize, then certain schools may seem easier, but it isn't impossible to get match of choice from NYU. There are students who go onto the most competitive specialties from NYU. No matter where, ability and attitude is necessary to reach specialization goals.

                                What's making these two troll so pathetically is because they wrongly think that it is only the opinions and considerations of other people that determine one's ability to specialize, which they equate with success. Their delusional beliefs make them reject the individual student's potential altogether:




                                These are the facts that do not change. You're going to get what you put into from your education. There are other factors that need to be seriously considered aside from the quality of education, but, luckily, the ability to specialize, and of far greater importance to the majority of us, the way to becoming a capable, successful dentist does not hinge on whether or not one attends a so-called 'top' dental school.

                                OMG, someone has a serious chip on their shoulder. I read half of your overly long, overly emotional post and realized that there are people that do not know how to take constructive criticism and should not be reading threads on this website. It reminds me of the time one of my co-workers cried when someone joked that the MBA she was planning on getting from the University of Phoenix wasn't going to land her a job on Wall Street. Take it easy, please! Life is too short, crying about everything isn't going to do much good.
                                 

                                AskJeeves

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                                Dec 20, 2009
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                                  If you are someone who can take initiative and fully take advantage of the opportunities available to you, NYUCD is an excellent school for specializing. FYI, I personally know three people who recently got into Ivy League ortho residency program (2 Harvard and 1 Columbia) from NYUCD.

                                  There is no denying that not as many people from NYUCD specialize compared to those Ivy-League dental schools. But whether or not you will be successful in getting into ortho, for example, ultimately depends on whether or not you can flourish at the dental school you attend and build up credentials to enhance your candidacy. NYUCD certainly offers excellent environment for those who want to specialize.

                                  I got accepted to my first choice ortho residency program, and I really owe my success to the opportunities NYUCD offered to me. I say coming to NYUCD was the best decision I made because the school has given me every opportunity in the world that I needed to realize what I wanted in my life. I am not the only one who says this; I heard someone who got into ortho from NYUCD say exactly the same thing.

                                  Just my two cents.

                                  I am just relying on the schools' published data, which is the only way to keep dental schools accountable. I'm sure people from NYU have and will continue to land prestigious specializations, but without any data, it's hard to gauge what your real odds are. It's comforting to know that you have a reasonable chance of getting into a prestigious specialization from an Ivy. If you have any published, reliable data regarding how many kids actually land an ortho or OMFS specialization from NYU, that would be greatly appreciated, otherwise, I can only construe your hopeful statements as mere conjecture.
                                   
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                                  By the way, every person I have talked to upon hearing the NYU name assumes it is a prestigious school. Not that I care really, but for the average Joe and Jane (your patients, if they even care), as of yet and probably for long, this name carries more weight than say Penn or Pacific, and perhaps on par with Columbia.

                                  If you want to specialize, then certain schools may seem easier, but it isn't impossible to get match of choice from NYU.

                                  Again, we're not talking about our patients. I understand that I could say "NYU" and get a big wow from my friends, as you finally got to halfway through, we're talking about how others schools look at you when you are going in to specialize.

                                  Just answer this: If NYU put out a pamphlet that said "It isn't impossible to specialize," would you go there? That is the whole point of my question. Does it make sense to take a year off and reapply. Is it worth it to find a cheaper school with a better specializing rate or get it started now?

                                  Now I need to save the rest of my brain cells.
                                   
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                                  AskJeeves

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                                    Does it make sense to take a year off and reapply. Is it worth it to find a cheaper school with a better specializing rate or take the hit and get it started now?

                                    Personally, I would not wait a year a re-apply because you don't know what will happen next year. I would just go to NYU since you are in already. Besides, what if during your interviews next year, they ask whether you were admitted to any schools and why you declined those schools.
                                     
                                    Did you know its going to take about a month for NYU to send out financial aid information? They haven't figured out how much tuition is going to be.

                                    My dad's reaction: "maybe that means it'll go down because of the economy"

                                    My reaction: "Hahahahaha, wrong direction"
                                     
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                                    Rutsy

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                                      If you're really intent on specializing (which will honestly change after you've experienced what dental school is really like) you will excel in your program, no matter the school.

                                      I say you take the acceptance. Personal opinion.
                                       
                                      If you're really intent on specializing (which will honestly change after you've experienced what dental school is really like) you will excel in your program, no matter the school.

                                      I say you take the acceptance. Personal opinion.

                                      The truth is, I am intent on excelling in my program. I want to make sure that I am at a school at which my effort will pay off with the option of specializing without any added difficulty.
                                       
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                                      Angle Jr.

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                                        Since the school does not seem to officially "publish" specialty placement statistics, I can only tell you some stats I know for ortho (which I tried to look up as I was also curious). To the best of my knowledge, at least 6 people got into ortho from the Class of 2008, 8 from 2009, and 5 from 2010. The actual numbers could be higher for 2008 and 2009, as the above information is based upon what I personally gathered from alumni contact lists and past class newsletters.

                                        I can assure you that if you excel at NYUCD, you will have no problem getting into the specialty program of your choice. When I applied to ortho residency, I received more interview offers than I could possibly attend.

                                        In conclusion, I can say that I made a right decision in coming to NYUCD, rather than waiting for another year in the hope of getting into a school that has a "better specializing rate." I couldn't be happier with my educational experience at NYUCD, and also I didn't have to end up with losing one year of income as an orthodontist.
                                         

                                        Sephisabin

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                                          I have heard this a lot, but isn't it true that an Orthodontist will make more money from an orthodontic procedure than a GP will from the same procedure? Also, how reasonable is it for a GP to perform Ortho work? All of my friends who are dentists always tell me that they can do Ortho if they get certified, but they never do and always refer cases out to an Orthodontist.

                                          If your friends are choosing not to get certified, that it because they don't have the will or desire to do so. If there's a GP who wants to do ortho, there isn't a doubt in my mind that he'll follow through with the certification course. My GP performs basic ortho work, but refers out for the really tough cases. Pretty sure the orthodontist gets paid more than the GP.

                                          Don't forget to consider that GPs and specialits run very different practices as well. I hear a lot of people say they want to be a dentist instead of an MD because they want to build long lasting relationships with their patients rather than just seeing them for one or two procedures. Then they'll go on and say they want to specialize and, in most specialties, you're not going to do that. It's all referral based and after you've done the perio/endo/ortho/surgery etc., they won't be coming back to you again unless they get another problem that requires your expertise. Sorry, off topic a bit, but just something that people forget to consider sometimes when deciding on a specialty.
                                           
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