Any Gay, Liberal, Atheist Pre-Meds Out There?

[trustwomen]

and i'd even say don't pray with/for a patient unless they ask, even if they wear a cross or the like. i still wear a saint medal that i was given because it means something to me personally, but not in terms of actually believeing that saint barbara really watches over me...

True, good point. And I have a few necklaces with crosses on them, now that I think about it.

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[e_phn]

You're not funny, you make me sick. I have no doubts that if a heaven and hell exist, judgemental people like you will go straight to the latter for not being strong enough to have your own thoughts and jumping on the "hate" bandwagon.
Perhaps you should seek a different profession. We need more compassionate doctors, no more pompous a$$holes.

okay, you sound a little harsh there; everyone is different, you know.

 

[trustwomen]

okay, you sound a little harsh there; everyone is different, you know.

That was indeed a little harsh. Then again, remember that this is an internet forum, people get harsh. Besides, if you're not gay, liberal, or atheist, this isn't really the thread to post on, no? If I went to the white conservative christian thread and proceeded to distract/hijack for pages and pages, people would probably be pretty harsh with me too. (You shoulda seen the abuse I took on the abortion threads. )

 

[notdeadyet]

What happens if you're Gay, Conservative and Atheist? That's gotta be a tough cross to bear, no?

 

[trustwomen]

What happens if you're Gay, Conservative and Atheist? That's gotta be a tough cross to bear, no?

Nope. Just means you're Libertarian.

 

[e_phn]

That was indeed a little harsh. Then again, remember that this is an internet forum, people get harsh. Besides, if you're not gay, liberal, or atheist, this isn't really the thread to post on, no? If I went to the white conservative christian thread and proceeded to distract/hijack for pages and pages, people would probably be pretty harsh with me too. (You shoulda seen the abuse I took on the abortion threads. )

trust me, i tried to stop myself from posting...but that comment really bugged me.

 

[squareDR]

You can't expect a bisexual to understand, since they don't find any type of sex disgusting.

Well, this comment really bugs me. Yes, everyone on this thread frequently has sex with animals and children. God forbid, I have to treat a comatose patient at some point because that would really test the limit of my self-control!!

 

[noonday]

trust me, i tried to stop myself from posting...but that comment really bugged me.

well, since this is a clearly labeled thread that would clearly likely contain comments that would bug you, and is one of these "hey! we're alike! let's bond!" threads, why even read it if you won't be able to not post?

it's akin to trolling, really. and plus, how helpful and adult is a "hey you're being mean..." whine, anyway? face it, sometimes people aren't nice. stay out of places where you'll encounter it, or, more usefully, grow a thicker skin.

and, to point it out yet again, now e_phn is out of the closet! welcome to queerdom!

 

[trustwomen]

trust me, i tried to stop myself from posting...but that comment really bugged me.

Actually I was referring to Psychodoc's constant posting. He seems well-intentioned but it's a hijack nonetheless, and some people will mention it politely (like noonday and myself) and others not so politely (rowdyrock). I'll admit rowdyrock was "unproductive harsh", and not "on-message harsh", but that happens on forums (I was told many awful things on other SDN threads, believe me...)

 

[e_phn]

well, since this is a clearly labeled thread that would clearly likely contain comments that would bug you, and is one of these "hey! we're alike! let's bond!" threads, why even read it if you won't be able to not post?

i'm an open-minded person.

 

[trustwomen]

and, to point it out yet again, now e_phn is out of the closet! welcome to queerdom!

See, we are making a difference! Who says internet forums are just solipsistic eloquence... we're converting straight Christians here!!! Go us!

(A friendly tip for all you new gay boys - wrap your hand around the base to reduce the length, so you won't gag on it)

 

[OSUdoc08]

See, we are making a difference! Who says internet forums are just solipsistic eloquence... we're converting straight Christians here!!! Go us!

(A friendly tip for all you new gay boys - wrap your hand around the base to reduce the length, so you won't gag on it)

RPR/VRDL

 

[noonday]

See, we are making a difference! Who says internet forums are just solipsistic eloquence... we're converting straight Christians here!!! Go us!

(A friendly tip for all you new gay boys - wrap your hand around the base to reduce the length, so you won't gag on it)

tee hee.

and never, ever forget... the key to non-oral is to go nice and slow at first and use a TON of lube (and protection, of course)

 

[rowdyrock]

okay, you sound a little harsh there; everyone is different, you know.

I know it was harsh, but so is saying you would rather take a shot in the head than sleep with someone of the same gender. I read PsychoDoctor's and other's insulting comments and I find many of them just as "harsh" as anything I have posted. But it's really the ignorant attitudes of the leaders of this country and people like PychoDoctor have that make me sick. RowdyRock hates the bigotry, not the bigot.
BUT, I'll try and tone it down so as to keep things more civil. Apologies

 

[OSUdoc08]

I know it was harsh, but so is saying you would rather take a shot in the head than sleep with someone of the same gender. I read PsychoDoctor's and other's insulting comments and I find many of them just as "harsh" as anything I have posted. But it's really the ignorant attitudes of the leaders of this country and people like PychoDoctor have that make me sick. RowdyRock hates the bigotry, not the bigot.
BUT, I'll try and tone it down so as to keep things more civil. Apologies

Ironic how "ignorant attitudes" are percieved and portrayed, depending on your point of view.

 

[trustwomen]

I know it was harsh, but so is saying you would rather take a shot in the head than sleep with someone of the same gender. I read PsychoDoctor's and other's insulting comments and I find many of them just as "harsh" as anything I have posted. But it's really the ignorant attitudes of the leaders of this country and people like PychoDoctor have that make me sick. RowdyRock hates the bigotry, not the bigot.
BUT, I'll try and tone it down so as to keep things more civil. Apologies

We understand, rowdyrock. It's hard to keep your head from exploding when you live in the U.S. these days. That's why this thread was started, it seems - so we'd feel less isolated.

p.s. Didja read my posts about Canada?

 

[rowdyrock]

God forbid, I have to treat a comatose patient at some point because that would really test the limit of my self-control!!

See, we are making a difference! Who says internet forums are just solipsistic eloquence... we're converting straight Christians here!!! Go us!

(A friendly tip for all you new gay boys - wrap your hand around the base to reduce the length, so you won't gag on it)

I wish I could be witty like ya'll. I just get angry.

 

[trustwomen]

I wish I could be witty like ya'll. I just get angry.

Age and experience, my dear. Age and experience.

The rage is still there, it actually helps me push through the feelings of hopelessness sometimes. Don't lose yours, it'll serve you well in years to come. It will energize you to actually change the world for the better. Of course, you may come to realize (as I have) that doing so in the U.S. is not worth the effort.

 

[rowdyrock]

Ironic how "ignorant attitudes" are percieved and portrayed, depending on your point of view.

Care to elaborate? It just seems to me that accusing a large group of people that exist throughout history and throughout all cultures that they can change who they fundamentally are, refusing to acknowledge them, and actively preventing them from having the same rights as the majority is ignorant. And utterly hateful.

 

[trustwomen]

Care to elaborate? It just seems to me that accusing a large group of people that exist throughout history and throughout all cultures that they can change who they fundamentally are, refusing to acknowledge them, and actively preventing them from having the same rights as the majority is ignorant. And utterly hateful.

Rowdyrock, please don't feed the trolls. None of us want him to elaborate. We don't care. We know what he will say already, we've heard it a million times in a million different ways.

 

[rowdyrock]

Age and experience, my dear. Age and experience.

The rage is still there, it actually helps me push through the feelings of hopelessness sometimes. Don't lose yours, it'll serve you well in years to come. It will energize you to actually change the world for the better. Of course, you may come to realize (as I have) that doing so in the U.S. is not worth the effort.

Thanks trustwomen, I've appreciated all of your posts. And I indeed read the one about Canada and I have many Canadian friends who tell me the same things. Sounds wonderful up there. Too bad I'm stuck down here in TX.

 

[EddieIndy]

Rowdyrock, please don't feed the trolls. None of us want him to elaborate. We don't care. We know what he will say already, we've heard it a million times in a million different ways.

5000+ posts? doesn't seem like a troll to me

 

[rowdyrock]

Rowdyrock, please don't feed the trolls. None of us want him to elaborate. We don't care. We know what he will say already, we've heard it a million times in a million different ways.

true true. Apologies again! I'm new here!

better stop posting and do some work!

 

[trustwomen]

5000+ posts? doesn't seem like a troll to me

I mean on this thread. I respect OSUdoc08, but this is not the thread on which to get all negative about gays or atheists. Just like I'd probably not get much love on the white christian conservative pre-med thread, and would rightfully be called a "troll" there. (Though I am not a "general" troll).

 

[trustwomen]

Thanks trustwomen, I've appreciated all of your posts. And I indeed read the one about Canada and I have many Canadian friends who tell me the same things. Sounds wonderful up there. Too bad I'm stuck down here in TX.

I've heard that Austin is a small bastion of liberal freedom in Texas. I'm still happier here though.

 

[rowdyrock]

I've heard that Austin is a small bastion of liberal freedom in Texas. I'm still happier here though.

Austin IS a wonderful city. I went to college there but I've been living in Dallas for the past two years. Could be worse, could be better...

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I've heard that Austin is a small bastion of liberal freedom in Texas. I'm still happier here though.

Austin is way overrated for being liberal. Sure, it's more liberal than Dallas or Houston, but it's still Texas. If you go to Austin, you'll see tons of SUVs with W bumper stickers, and you'll find a town that's very hostile to public transporation. It took them about six years to finally approve light rail.

 

[gdk420]

This argument is ridiculous to the point that it's downright disingenuous. The reason why animals like dogs, children, or any other non-adult, non-conscious human cannot be part of a marriage is because they are not deemed capable of giving CONSENT. This is not a question of "anything goes." There is an actual moral principle here: if the person is a consenting adult, s/he should be free to have relationships (and/or marry) with any other consenting adult. It's fine if you don't agree with that principle, but at least have the intellectual honesty to recognize that the principle exists. As for polygamy or polyandry, as long as the relationship is among consenting adults, I think the gov. should butt out. There are plenty of religious and cultural practices engaged in by adults that disgust me equally if not more than multiple marriages, but that doesn't mean that the gov. ought to ban them, either. People ought to have the right to self-determination as much as possible if they are not interfering with other people's exercise of this right, even if that leads to them doing things that many of us think are disgusting, immoral, or annoying.

1. How would you define consent or what criteria would you judge that upon? More advance monkeys have the ability to communicate, I would think they would sign language yes to marriage.
2. What about marriage between a brother and sister? As long as they don't have kids, how can society not allow them to get married.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I respect that you do not want to violate your beliefs. However, you realize that you therefore cannot take issue with some atheists who might refuse to violate their beliefs by praying at all. (It's not an issue for me personally, but even within atheists there are differences - like some Christians might pray to Allah, considering Allah's "root" deity is also Yahweh the sky-father).

I didn't say I would take issue; that's why i asked the question, out of curiosity. i was actually surprised when i got the response that you would pray at all. kuddos to you.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

You're not funny, you make me sick. I have no doubts that if a heaven and hell exist, judgemental people like you will go straight to the latter for not being strong enough to have your own thoughts and jumping on the "hate" bandwagon.
Perhaps you should seek a different profession. We need more compassionate doctors, no more pompous a$$holes.

i was asked a direct question, and I gave a direct answer. The smilie face was just to indicate this is supposed to be a friendly thread and when people complained about me yesterday..or was it the day before, I sort of backed down and tried not to be judgemental. Sorry you felt an honest and direct answer made me judgemental. And there is no hate from me at all. Just b/c one refuses to engage in sexual practices they don't believe in (and may even hate the practices) does not mean they hate the person engaging in such activities. Who is hating now?

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Prude.

perhaps so

 

[Psycho Doctor]

That was indeed a little harsh. Then again, remember that this is an internet forum, people get harsh. Besides, if you're not gay, liberal, or atheist, this isn't really the thread to post on, no? If I went to the white conservative christian thread and proceeded to distract/hijack for pages and pages, people would probably be pretty harsh with me too. (You shoulda seen the abuse I took on the abortion threads. )

be my guest and post there...people would enjoy the differences of opinion and engage in such a discussion.

one can not hijack a thread single-handledly without others engaged in a discussion. amazing the thread went for pages and pages with me hardly responding at all.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

trust me, i tried to stop myself from posting...but that comment really bugged me.

thank you

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I know it was harsh, but so is saying you would rather take a shot in the head than sleep with someone of the same gender. I read PsychoDoctor's and other's insulting comments and I find many of them just as "harsh" as anything I have posted. But it's really the ignorant attitudes of the leaders of this country and people like PychoDoctor have that make me sick. RowdyRock hates the bigotry, not the bigot.
BUT, I'll try and tone it down so as to keep things more civil. Apologies

hey there, now. Many people will give up their life or at least suffer injury rather than do something against their principles. Call it weakness on my part, or whatever you want, but it's about me personally and should not be interpreted as insulting towards anyone else. I'd also take a shot in the head before I rejected God or Jesus or compromised my standards. If you call that an ignorant attitude, so be it.

 

[noonday]

i'm going to now take an oath, and i "pray" that others join...

i, noonday, do solemnly swear, that from here on out on this thread i shall not reply or address any deist, homophobic, queer unaccepting, contrary, conservo, baiting and/or prudish posts with the hope that if they're ignored they'll go away.

 

[trustwomen]

PsychoDoctor, I realize that your intentions are good. Some of the questions you raised are even interesting. However, overall, people spent so much time answering you, and being on the defensive - by necessity and by habit, because liberal gay atheists tend to (need to) be really defensive in this society - that the point of this type of thread (bonhomie and common ground) was lost. Honestly, I feel it was fine to ask the "praying with patients?" question as a curiosity thing, and that was not disruptive. However, the long talk about gay marriage and "real" christians vs. cafeteria catholics, theological details etc.. was unwarranted. (I admit, I was baited into answering defensively too...).

So, that said, don't take this the wrong way, or take it personally:

I, trustwomen, do solemnly swear, that from here on out on this thread I shall not reply or address any deist, homophobic, queer unaccepting, contrary, conservo, baiting and/or prudish posts with the hope that if they're ignored they'll go away.

 

[Compass]

Careful, you might make the FSM angry!

 

[trustwomen]

Careful, you might make the FSM angry!

The FSM was my "religion" of choice until I discovered the Church of Reality (www.churchofreality.org).

 

[Doula-2-OB]

How about a lesbian, Christian, pro-life centrist (former republican). Did I mention I was black?

You guessed it -no one likes me either

Wow, neat!! I've only ever met one other gay republican! LOL

 

[trustwomen]

Wow, neat!! I've only ever met one other gay republican! LOL

One "other"? Doula, please say you aren't Republican...

There's a group, actually: "Log Cabin Republicans" http://online.logcabin.org/

Fiscally conservative (goes without saying, tend to be gay men rather than lesbians - gay men outearn lesbians in SO many ways...), they believe in small government.

And, as George Carlin has publicly wondered: "Gay Republicans? Do they beat themselves up in parking lots?"

 

[Doula-2-OB]

One "other"? Doula, please say you aren't Republican...

Nope, not me. I'm more like green/libertarian. LOL

 

[kaat44]

hey there, now. Many people will give up their life or at least suffer injury rather than do something against their principles. Call it weakness on my part, or whatever you want, but it's about me personally and should not be interpreted as insulting towards anyone else. I'd also take a shot in the head before I rejected God or Jesus or compromised my standards. If you call that an ignorant attitude, so be it.

To semi-weigh in in support of Psycho doctor: That question about would you have sex with a hollywood man or be shot WAS baiting. First of all, it is weird to have a choice between having sex with someone or being shot. That forced sex smacks of rape, and that adds way too many dimensions to the question. And of course Psycho doctor is going to say yes! First of all, I'm assuming he/she believes in heaven and believes that if he follows Jesus'/God's will, he/she will end up there. Plus we all know ALREADY that he/she thinks homosexual sex is sinful.

I appreciate that Psycho doctor is trying to approach this topic with some degree of open-mindedness. There are plenty of people who hate the people a who do them a lot more.

Still, in the scheme of things, pyscho doctor, I'm having a hard time with this line, which I think is the core of the problem. To be straightforward, I certainly do not believe in any organized religion, although I do think there is some higher power (soul-searching still going on to figure that one out). So, I don't understand the "because the Bible says so" rationale about why things are wrong. Having sex with a woman doesn't seem wrong to me at all; in fact, the higher power that I haven't identified yet definitely is glad to have MORE love in the world.

I mean, WHY does God not want two women to have sex? Or two men? What harm does it do? Especially if they are committed to each other?

 

[trustwomen]

That question about would you have sex with a hollywood man or be shot WAS baiting. First of all, it is weird to have a choice between having sex with someone or being shot.

Actually, my question was meant to be fluffy, more about "which Hollywood male do you find hot?" than anything else. We had been talking about Angelina and Brad... I asked "which guy would you do?", not "would you do a guy?". It never even crossed my mind that someone might prefer death to coerced sex! I wonder whether that's a girl thing, because as a woman you must live with (get used to?) the real possibility of rape, and think about it (preemptively steel yourself against it?) more than you would like.

 

[QofQuimica]

along those lines, what would an atheist do if a patient either asked you to stay while he (or a family member or pastor) prays or asks you to pray for him?

I already answered this several pages back. I'd stand quietly and let him pray or talk about his beliefs without comment from yours truly. If he wanted me to pray with/for him, I'd politely decline and offer to find someone who could offer him spiritual counseling. I don't have a problem with Christians, and I think that many people find great comfort and inspiration in their faith, which I can respect. There are some Christian individuals and groups (like Quakers) whom I admire very much. Be that all as it may, *I* am not a Christian, and it makes a mockery of their beliefs for me to pretend to share them when I don't.

 

[QofQuimica]

1. How would you define consent or what criteria would you judge that upon? More advance monkeys have the ability to communicate, I would think they would sign language yes to marriage.
2. What about marriage between a brother and sister? As long as they don't have kids, how can society not allow them to get married.

1) You'd need to convince me that the monkey understands the concept of marriage, is making the choice of its own free will, and is willing to take responsibility for the consequences of this choice. In other words, it would need to have a level of consciousness that would allow it to have an informed consent with regards to the marriage. I don't currently know of any monkeys that possess that capability. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

2) This is a difficult issue. Leaving the morality of it aside for a second, it's a very bad idea for the sake of the potential children to permit this. It is not a coincidence that most cultures worldwide and throughout history have had a taboo against incest. Now I don't know how you plan to guarantee that such a couple does not have children (forced sterilization? ), but assuming that they are physically capable of having children, and knowing as we do that such children have a much greater chance of having genetic disorders, one could conceivably argue that it's against society's interest to permit such marriages. If there were some way to guarantee that no children would result (again, I am not sure how you would do that for a heterosexual couple without forced sterilization), it would be a harder argument to make. Let's say it was two sisters who wanted to be civilly united, or two brothers. That would be a case where you could guarantee that there would be no biological children, and I can't see then what interest the government would have in forcibly preventing the union, in spite of the fact that most people (myself included) would disapprove.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

To semi-weigh in in support of Psycho doctor: That question about would you have sex with a hollywood man or be shot WAS baiting. First of all, it is weird to have a choice between having sex with someone or being shot. That forced sex smacks of rape, and that adds way too many dimensions to the question. And of course Psycho doctor is going to say yes! First of all, I'm assuming he/she believes in heaven and believes that if he follows Jesus'/God's will, he/she will end up there. Plus we all know ALREADY that he/she thinks homosexual sex is sinful.

I appreciate that Psycho doctor is trying to approach this topic with some degree of open-mindedness. There are plenty of people who hate the people a who do them a lot more.

Still, in the scheme of things, pyscho doctor, I'm having a hard time with this line, which I think is the core of the problem. To be straightforward, I certainly do not believe in any organized religion, although I do think there is some higher power (soul-searching still going on to figure that one out). So, I don't understand the "because the Bible says so" rationale about why things are wrong. Having sex with a woman doesn't seem wrong to me at all; in fact, the higher power that I haven't identified yet definitely is glad to have MORE love in the world.

I mean, WHY does God not want two women to have sex? Or two men? What harm does it do? Especially if they are committed to each other?

it would be hard for me to convince you of anything since we are not even on the same starting ground. God created man and then woman intended to form a union and procreate; He created Adfam and Eve not Adam and Steve...sorry to be so cliche but that's really what it's all about. he formed sex organs that fit perfectly to each other because it is with these sex organs man and woman were intended to give each other pleasure and procreate.

 

[MarzMD]

it would be hard for me to convince you of anything since we are not even on the same starting ground. God created man and then woman intended to form a union and procreate; He created Adfam and Eve not Adam and Steve...sorry to be so cliche but that's really what it's all about. he formed sex organs that fit perfectly to each other because it is with these sex organs man and woman were intended to give each other pleasure and procreate.

I guess that means you dont believe in oral sex? Ever had it? For the sake of your argument, I hope not. Anyway, I dont have any problem with homosexuals but sadly I must agree with PsychoDoctor on one thing. I would chose death.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I guess that means you dont believe in oral sex? Ever had it? For the sake of your argument, I hope not. Anyway, I dont have any problem with homosexuals but sadly I must agree with PsychoDoctor on one thing. I would chose death.

Why do you think God made some women without gag reflexes?

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I guess that means you dont believe in oral sex? Ever had it? For the sake of your argument, I hope not. Anyway, I dont have any problem with homosexuals but sadly I must agree with PsychoDoctor on one thing. I would chose death.

interesting that so many people thought my response was crazy and insulting...guess I'm not the only one.

 

[kaat44]

God also woman so that she was receptive to intercourse even when she was not ovulating--we are one of the only species where this is so. Sex for humans is not just procreational, there is a social aspect too that you cannot ignore. God made that too.

I also respect your point that we are not coming from the same place. It is amazing that we can see the world SO differently. I guess I believe that regardless of what you believe, how you live your life is the most important--aka giving yourself to making the world a better place, striving to do the right, just thing at all times--and if Christianity helps you to do that great! I guess the only thing is part of my "being a good person" means accepting all different people for who they are, and the being against homosexual acts doesn't really fit that. So we are back to our differing beliefs! Anyway just commenting on how many pretty amazing people there are out there and how they all got to somewhat the same place using different belief systems...makes you believe there is some universal goodness out there

Also, I was wondering if you support George W? Since most of my Christian friends are pretty liberal I am biased, but a lot of them think his war-mongering is contrary to their Christian beliefs, but he is with you on abortion, gay marriage etc.

it would be hard for me to convince you of anything since we are not even on the same starting ground. God created man and then woman intended to form a union and procreate; He created Adfam and Eve not Adam and Steve...sorry to be so cliche but that's really what it's all about. he formed sex organs that fit perfectly to each other because it is with these sex organs man and woman were intended to give each other pleasure and procreate.