Any Hopkins People here? Help!

[azzarah]

I went and asked for my class rank yesterday and they actually pulled out a binder and told me my class rank. I can't believe how many times I've heard that Hopkins doesn't have a class rank and the grades are for your own learning, P=MD B.S. What gives? I am so disappointed--not so much with my class rank, but mostly because I feel I was lied to. What the F is a good classrank any way?

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[39094]

Well, you're a step ahead of me but I can't say that I'm surprised at all. I will probably get a lot of crap for saying this, but EVERY school ranks their students, whether they say so or not. Even schools which are completely P/F generate a class ranking at some point. My old PI used to sit on the board at a P/F school and told me they still generated a class ranking system, just based it on teacher recommends and evaluations (they assigned points and percentages even though the grades came out as P/F).

P does equal M.D., but that in no way means there's not going to be a numerical ranking when it comes down to it. The only thing that surprises me is that they told you!

But let me know where you went to get it, as an incoming MSI I'd be interested to keep track of such things

See you around campus!

 

[VienneseWaltz]

getianshi is right: every school keeps track of this even if they supposedly are pass/fail. When the dean's letter's go out during our fourth year, they have to have a way to differentiate among students--this is the only reason we have a rank. Also, AOA can't be awarded without ranking students. Hopkins doesn't announce AOA until the spring, so it can't hurt (or help) anyone for the match. Here, it's not critical to be in the top 10% to match in a particular specialty or program, so I don't think rank is very important unless you simply have to do derm at Harvard.

I still think grades are de-emphasized here relative to some other schools. You have to go to the registrar's or course director's office to find out anything, sometimes even your exam grades.

 

[pjr28]

Harvard is P/F and does not rank the student AT ALL!!!

 

[rackd8ball]

yea but that's what they give you for having your noses up in the air!

hopkins 2008!

 

[rackd8ball]

Anyways, what's with the bs then about our preclinical grades not mattering?? Now they do? And do they grade with our test scores, or with the simple fact that we hit P or HP or H?

 

[39094]

As for Harvard, I am well aware it's "totally" P/F, but just because they tell you that doesn't mean there's not a secretary somewhere who doesn't have a nice secret little book that the Dean looks at when he/she is writing letters. Everyone ranks, EVERYONE. Be that by test percentage or by other means, they're gonna do it. Like I said, my PI sat me down and told me straight up that even though the school he came from was "totally" P/F, they found a way in the end to assign numerical ranks to their students (He came from a top-ten East coast research heavy med. school, I'll let you ponder which one )

As for Hopkins, I never really bought into the whole "we don't rank" B.S. so I'm not overly surprised. In the long run I do think that pre-clinical grades won't matter that much (at least in comparison with clinical evals.), but you have to expect that they're going to categorize us one way or another. We should totally bring up this thread during orientation and see what they say! HAH!

 

[MacGyver]

Harvard is P/F and does not rank the student AT ALL!!!

I refuse to believe that until someone provides to me a bona fide deans letter from HMS. I would bet money that it DOES in fact refer to class rank in some form on that letter. It might not be a specific position (i.e. # 22 in the class) but I guarantee you they have some kind of ranking such as top 10%, top 25%, top 50%, etc.

 

[Caesars0331]

I would side with Mac on this one, too.

 

[azzarah]

We even have a freaking GPA!
Honors=1.0
HP=2.0
P=3.0
I don't remember the details, but something along those lines. Grrrrrrr.

Viennesewaltz, I remember in anatomy people were talking about how Hopkins doesn't even have AOA. Gosh, I can't believe I fell for all this crap!

I can assure you though, I am no where near top 10%...especially after getting my butt kicked in d-bio and anatomy....maybe if I got honors in everything else from now on.... yeah right!

 

[azzarah]

Does anyone know the exact % of people who get H, HP, P?
Based on my classrank, I'm pretty sure it can't be the 5% H, 15%HP, ~75-80% P that I keep hearing....

 

[Rapid Decomposition]

Whoa, you didn't think we were ranked? I never heard that, I always assumed we were. Every med school ranks their students - yes, even Harvard. (pjr28, in the third and fourth year HMS becomes H/HP/P/F, like most P/F schools, that's probably what they get the rank from)

But seriously, is ranking in med school really a big deal? Especially in this case - it's Hopkins for god's sake, it's not like you'll be doing your residency in Jamaica or something (hm, unless you want to!). I've never gone to the registrar's to get my grades, because I really don't want to get caught up in it. I just want to learn the stuff. I knew what I got on the tests last year, where the score was relative to the class, and that's good enough. As a result I had a fabulous first year that was less stressful than any year in college. Seriously. It's all about your mindset. Unless you really are gunning for Harvard derm. I guess I'm lucky I'm not!

And yeah, only 10% of the class gets to be in the top 10%. Maybe I could do it where I went to college (no offense USC ), but at Hopkins?? Pfft. That's 12 people. Yeah right. I've lived in Vegas long enough to know I ain't that lucky. So chill out azzarah! You'll be fine!!!

 

[VienneseWaltz]

Anyways, what's with the bs then about our preclinical grades not mattering?? Now they do? And do they grade with our test scores, or with the simple fact that we hit P or HP or H?

Whether your preclinical grades matter is entirely a matter for specialty. The majority of residency programs care about your board scores, clinical grades, and LOR. If you are going for a super-competitive specialty or program, they might look at your MSII grades or even MSI if they have no other way to differentiate among applicants (I have even heard of a few programs that ask for your MCAT score), but for most people, preclinical grades do NOT matter, no matter what school you attend.

When you get tests back here, you will get a numerical grade and some basic stats (mean & SD), but they almost never tell you if you got P, HP, or H, but you can get this information from the registrar if you like.

Anyway, if I wound up in the top 10% (don't worry, no chance), I would know that I'd done something wrong, as I'm not freaking smart enough to pull that off without incarcerating myself in the library. P=MD.

Azzarah, I am not 100% sure that we have AOA, but I'm pretty sure that we do, and I know it's not announced before the match.

 

[casey at bat]

as stated by several posters already, i don't think it matters much being ranked when graduating from harvard or hopkins.....but it still rings 'ill' feelings if i was lied to. i mean, wouldn't that make you feel that maybe there are other things they may have fibbed about....although i think hopkins reputation is second to none.


on a side note - does hopkins generally favor a diverse class in terms of undergrad representation, specifically international degree holders.....i know some schools like columbia tend to favor the leagues when it comes to who they want.....just curious.


casey

 

[VienneseWaltz]

as stated by several posters already, i don't think it matters much being ranked when graduating from harvard or hopkins.....but it still rings 'ill' feelings if i was lied to. i mean, wouldn't that make you feel that maybe there are other things they may have fibbed about....although i think hopkins reputation is second to none.


on a side note - does hopkins generally favor a diverse class in terms of undergrad representation, specifically international degree holders.....i know some schools like columbia tend to favor the leagues when it comes to who they want.....just curious.


casey

Yes, about a third of our class is made of outstanding state-school students. (And not just the "special" state schools like UVa). That was one thing that really impressed me at my interview.

I don't actually remember being told that we're not ranked, now that I think about it. But I forget things sometimes ...

 

[casey at bat]

Yes, about a third of our class is made of outstanding state-school students. (And not just the "special" state schools like UVa). That was one thing that really impressed me at my interview.

I don't actually remember being told that we're not ranked, now that I think about it. But I forget things sometimes ...

thanks viennese...are there any international graduates in your class? i was wondering if i can email you sometime if you don't mind with questions regarding hopkins....it's seems easier to communicate with someone in the system rather than getting all your information from these boards.


appreciate your feedback
casey

 

[Bear1220]

on a side note - does hopkins generally favor a diverse class in terms of undergrad representation, specifically international degree holders.....i know some schools like columbia tend to favor the leagues when it comes to who they want.....just curious.

Out of all the top east coast schools, I felt that the Hopkins student body was the most diverse. Not only was there a diverse mix of different ethnicities, but there was a good geographical mix with people coming from different backgrounds. UCSF, also has good diversity being a public school, but also because it's a public school it doesn't have the geographical diversity that Hopkins has. I know UCSF is P/F for the first two years and H/P/F for the last two. There may be some sort of subjective ranking based on letters of recommendation from clerkships (and probably not so much from the basic science courses), which is necessary because I think UCSF has AOA. I don't think there's a need to fear class rank but it certainly isn't cool to have your school misrepresent it to you.

The GPA and class rank seem in line with the Hopkins stereotype, which gave me a bad vibe about the school when I was choosing. It still is an undeniably fantastic school, but I knew I'd be happier elsewhere.

 

[Harps]

Stanford is P/F all FOUR years...no AOA

-Harps

 

[MacGyver]

Stanford is P/F all FOUR years...no AOA

-Harps

I guarantee you they still use class rank though even though they dont use AOA. I want to see a Deans Letter from Stanford to prove me wrong.

Every Deans Letter in teh country refers to class rank in some form.

 

[VienneseWaltz]

According to the AOA Web site, there is a chapter at Hopkins, but I never hear anything about it except for a community service grant they give. And it's not important, given that AOA is mainly for pride at a place like Hopkins.

Also, there's a difference between the school lying to you and rumors turning out not to be true. I don't know who said we didn't have AOA, but I don't think it was someone in the administration.

Azzarah, who told you that we didn't have a GPA or weren't ranked? And what made you ask for your rank if you thought we didn't have one?

I guess I don't understand the big deal. What's the appeal with P/F vs the other stuff? If you care about honors, you have the option of getting it, and if you don't, you can just pass like most everyone else. Having a class rank isn't going to change how much I study.

 

[azzarah]

I have heard this over and over from our classmates, not the administration. And this one person even told me that he talked to the registrar and the Dean to make sure...so I totally believed him.
I heard the AOA thing from my anatomy lab partners who really wanted to get AOA but couldn't since they thought hopkins doesn't award AOA.
The reason I asked the registrar was because one of the residents (Hopkins graduate) was talking about how for the specialty that I am interested in (at least for right now) I should aim to be in the top half of our class....
I guess I was just really shocked and upset that these ppl I really trusted last year would feel the need to lie about such a trivial thing. It's not like we are all applying to the same specialties at the same schools any way. I just felt like I don't have many real friends that I could trust in our class. Your situation is a little different because you have a good support system here. Oh well...I'll get over it....Then hopefully I'll move to Chicago for residency and be fine.

I dont want people to get the wrong impression though. I think our class is AMAZING. Everyone is so well-rounded and accomplished. I always feel that I am so damn lucky to be here. And yes, we do have a few international students too.

 

[JDAWG07]

If your at Hopkins, I wouldn't worry too much about your rank as far as residency applying goes. I read somewhere (may have been their website or the MSAR) that something like 90% of their graduates match into their first choice residency.

 

[VienneseWaltz]

I have heard this over and over from our classmates, not the administration. And this one person even told me that he talked to the registrar and the Dean to make sure...so I totally believed him.
I heard the AOA thing from my anatomy lab partners who really wanted to get AOA but couldn't since they thought hopkins doesn't award AOA.
The reason I asked the registrar was because one of the residents (Hopkins graduate) was talking about how for the specialty that I am interested in (at least for right now) I should aim to be in the top half of our class....
I guess I was just really shocked and upset that these ppl I really trusted last year would feel the need to lie about such a trivial thing. It's not like we are all applying to the same specialties at the same schools any way. I just felt like I don't have many real friends that I could trust in our class. Your situation is a little different because you have a good support system here. Oh well...I'll get over it....Then hopefully I'll move to Chicago for residency and be fine.

I dont want people to get the wrong impression though. I think our class is AMAZING. Everyone is so well-rounded and accomplished. I always feel that I am so damn lucky to be here. And yes, we do have a few international students too.

Ha, I can guess which one of your anatomy partners is gunning for AOA. I can see why you're frustrated. Do you think they really lied or do you think they were sure but mistaken? That's one thing I've noticed in medicine (and not just students), that most people project confidence whether they have it or not, and you can absolutely KNOW something is right in your head but start to question it because someone you're talking to is so sure that it's the opposite.

Really, I wouldn't worry. We've already put the worst (and least important) year behind us, and I know you will pull off what you need for whatever specialty you want. *hug*

 

[doepug]

A few things:

1. Did you see our rank list for the Class of 2004? Can you guess relative class rank based on how people matched? Of course not. Check out old match lists... they rock. It doesn't matter if you're #1 or #120, you'll match well.

2. Preclinical grades mean nothing, zero, nada, zilch. Unless you fail.

2a. I got straight Bs the first two years (pre-H/HP/P days) and matched at my top program (Hopkins) in radiology.

3. Hopkins has an AOA chapter, and the inductees are notified AFTER the match.

4. Relax... life is good. You're getting the finest medical education available, and the world is your oyster, even if you get straight passes. Learn lots, have fun, and enjoy the Monday night happy hours at Little Havana.

Cheers,

doepug
(Hopkins MD, '04)

 

[elayboy]

I am a recent graduate of Hopkins and will be staying for residency. I just wanted to set the record straight. I had many of the same fears/concerns that have been stated in this thread. However, I still feel that Hopkins is a very noncompetitive environment. To this day, I do not know all of my grades. I have no idea what I got in Organ Systems. I do not know my grades in my Pediatrics or OB/GYN rotations. I simply didn't care enough to ask. I concentrated on showing up, learning what I was supposed to learn, and chose not to stress about everything. Hopkins does have AOA, members are elected in the Spring of 4th year, after the match. Hopkins does have internal class rank, however, the Dean would not tell me even when I specifically asked for it. It is strictly used on an internal basis, and is not communicated to anyone else, including residency programs. I know that many other schools including Stanford and Harvard have internal class ranks despite their Pass/Fail grading systems . . . I have friends at both these medical schools who have recently graduated and matched.

The bottom line is to concentrate on learning and not to worry about all these peripheral issues. If you do what you are supposed to do and learn what you are supposed to learn, you will not have any problems. I matched into my first choice residency in a very competitive specialty. Most of my class did very very well this year. And only a small percentage were AOA. This means that there were many non-AOA people who matched very well.

elayboy (Hopkins M.D., Class of 2004)

 

[VienneseWaltz]

Thank you, doepug & elayboy!

 

[Bear1220]

Thank you, doepug & elayboy!

I agree. Good posts

 

[azzarah]

Thank you, doepug & elayboy!

I agree!

Also, thanks VienneseWaltz for letting me b!tch about this the other day at the activities fair and for giving me a hug!...I am feeling a lot better now and I've decided to stay away from my gunner anatomy lab partners.

Thanks everyone for your advice! You guys are awesome!