Any ideas on how to repair a low GPA?

[lilanon]

Hi guys,

I'm hoping that someone here can help because I didn't have much luck in the WAMC forum. I last took pre-reqs ~10 years ago. Does anyone have any ideas on low GPA repair? I've been searching the forums, but I'm still undecided what is the best route to take, especially because I made things worse with a bad master's that I completed a year after graduating ugrad. Should I do another master's to show I am capable of med school? Take more ugrad/grad classes as a non-degree student? Will a good 3rd MCAT help to offset my GPA? My stats are below:

Undergrad cGPA: 3.4
Undergrad sGPA: 3.2
Master's GPA: 3.0
MCAT: 29 and 31

I'd greatly appreciate any ideas! Thanks everyone!

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[DrMidlife]

See the postbac forum for info on special masters programs and low GPA strategies. Also see this forum's FAQ sticky thread for links to low GPA success stories.

Postbac forum is here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=71

Generally your stats position you quite nicely to do an SMP, in which you audition for med school by doing the first year of med school.

Generally it's a terrible idea to do an SMP if you're not ready for med school. When people say SMPs are risky, this is what they're talking about. Based on your MCAT of 31, readiness isn't an issue for you.

Best of luck to you.

 

[mehc012]

I would (and plan to) take more ugrad classes as a non-degree-seeking student, or find a post-bacc program. More grad school wouldn't help, as that doesn't factor into your uGPA (which is the one they look for). Take upper level courses, maybe some Anatomy and Phys, and see if you can get a better foundation. Then consider retaking the MCAT, if you think your knowledge has expanded. If you think you will score LOWER than the 31 you have, DO NOT retake it.

The three most important things on the app are:
uGPA
MCAT
ECs

Make sure you have all three, and the lower one of them is, the better the others should be.

 

[Deekle]

Gotta disagree with the above. Retaking MCAT with a 31 is pointless in my opinion unless you can raise it significantly. (like 8-10 pts). Even then, I'd wonder what really changed since the 29 & 31 MCATS. SMP is probably your most sure route. I made it into med school with very similar stats (minus the masters) and no SMP/Postbac. I'd guess that your stats give you a decent to good shot at DO as they stand now. If you'd rather go the allopathic route the SMP is probably the path of least resistance.


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[Courtjester8]

if you can squeek 3-4 extra points out of an mcat, it'd be a big improvement, imho. But I wouldn't feel comfortable with that gamble unless my practice tests were typically 5-6 points higher to give yourself a buffer. You don't want to retake for the same score.

 

[mehc012]

Gotta disagree with the above. Retaking MCAT with a 31 is pointless in my opinion unless you can raise it significantly. (like 8-10 pts). Even then, I'd wonder what really changed since the 29 & 31 MCATS. SMP is probably your most sure route. I made it into med school with very similar stats (minus the masters) and no SMP/Postbac. I'd guess that your stats give you a decent to good shot at DO as they stand now. If you'd rather go the allopathic route the SMP is probably the path of least resistance.


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No, I agree with you...classes are the first priority! I really have no opinion on the MCAT other than what I said: OP should under no circumstances retake it if there's a chance he'll score lower. The only reason I mentioned retaking it was because he mentioned an informal postbacc, which could last a few years and would make his MCAT invalid for the next application cycle.

 

[lilanon]

Thanks everyone for the responses so far! I've been trying to read up on the options that you guys have suggested. I'm feeling worried about the low ugrad GPA, esp after mehc012 made it sound like my grad GPA will never be seen if my ugrad GPA is too low. Will that still be the case even at schools that supposedly look at your app holistically? I'm feeling conflicted because I'd ideally like to increase both, but I don't have enough time and resources to invest fully in both. Therefore, I'm trying to figure out where my priorities should be.

Also, I do worry that my lower GPA in my master's program gives off the impression that I can't handle med school, so I do feel like I need to address that issue as well. However, based on what I've read so far on SMPs, I am really scared I will ruin my chances for med school forever if I don't do outstanding in the program. Of course, I will try my best, but I would never assume that I will ace everything. Is there a less risky alternative that is still meaningful enough to med schools to be worth the investment? I'm willing to do an SMP if that's what it takes. However, due to the heavy penalty of not doing well, I want to make my decision carefully.

Gotta disagree with the above. Retaking MCAT with a 31 is pointless in my opinion unless you can raise it significantly. (like 8-10 pts). Even then, I'd wonder what really changed since the 29 & 31 MCATS. SMP is probably your most sure route. I made it into med school with very similar stats (minus the masters) and no SMP/Postbac. I'd guess that your stats give you a decent to good shot at DO as they stand now. If you'd rather go the allopathic route the SMP is probably the path of least resistance.


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Yikes! Deekle, you really think I need a 39+ score before a higher score would matter?

No, I agree with you...classes are the first priority! I really have no opinion on the MCAT other than what I said: OP should under no circumstances retake it if there's a chance he'll score lower. The only reason I mentioned retaking it was because he mentioned an informal postbacc, which could last a few years and would make his MCAT invalid for the next application cycle.

I was also thinking about this too, mehc012. Whether it's more classes or another master's, I only get 2-3 years before it expires (depending on the school).

 

[Deekle]

Unfortunately yes, I do. Some schools
Will just take your highest score. Some will average them out. If you figure worst case scenario, your average MCAT score is a 30 right now. If you score a 34, it only ups your average to a 31.3. Does a 31.3 seem that much different from a 30 to you?

Like I said, you're not in too bad of shape. The 3.0 in the masters certainly doesn't look super, but as has been discussed, it's not really a big part of the equation.

My cGPA was 3.4. My MCAT was a 28. I got into an allopathic school. I had great LORs and good ECs. You can get in. You will certainly experience some failure along the way, (I didn't get accepted everywhere I applied) but if you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time. Take some risks, put yourself out there. If it takes a few tries, so what? If you really want to be a doctor, it will be worth it in the long run.


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[Courtjester8]

I don't believe averaging them is nearly as common as taking the highest or taking the most recent, though I may be wrong.

cj8

 

[theseeker4]

Forget about another masters, unless it is a well known SMP with linkage. A standard MS will not help you nearly as much as a year or two of undergrad level courses in a formal or informal post Bach. The B average masters you have doesn't help you, but a 4.0 masters won't change anything either. You can either pursue an SMP from a well recognized program, or take a bunch of science courses at the undergrad level to prove you are ready for med school. Don't worry about improving both, as the undergrad record is what will make or break you.

 

[lilanon]

Unfortunately yes, I do. Some schools
Will just take your highest score. Some will average them out. If you figure worst case scenario, your average MCAT score is a 30 right now. If you score a 34, it only ups your average to a 31.3. Does a 31.3 seem that much different from a 30 to you?

Like I said, you're not in too bad of shape. The 3.0 in the masters certainly doesn't look super, but as has been discussed, it's not really a big part of the equation.

My cGPA was 3.4. My MCAT was a 28. I got into an allopathic school. I had great LORs and good ECs. You can get in. You will certainly experience some failure along the way, (I didn't get accepted everywhere I applied) but if you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time. Take some risks, put yourself out there. If it takes a few tries, so what? If you really want to be a doctor, it will be worth it in the long run.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile app. Blame Siri if the spelling or grammar are bad.

Oh, I see what you mean, Deekle. Also, thanks for giving me some hope. It helps to know that you were able to make it even if it was a bit bumpy to get there.

I don't believe averaging them is nearly as common as taking the highest or taking the most recent, though I may be wrong.

cj8

Hmm, I suppose the best thing to do is just to aim for as high as I can no matter what, especially considering a third take doesn't look so hot anyway. Then if the schools where I end up applying do take the highest or most recent score, I hope I have something good to show.

Forget about another masters, unless it is a well known SMP with linkage. A standard MS will not help you nearly as much as a year or two of undergrad level courses in a formal or informal post Bach. The B average masters you have doesn't help you, but a 4.0 masters won't change anything either. You can either pursue an SMP from a well recognized program, or take a bunch of science courses at the undergrad level to prove you are ready for med school. Don't worry about improving both, as the undergrad record is what will make or break you.

theseeker4, are you saying that even if I do an SMP that my ugrad GPA will still haunt me? If I take more ugrad classes, should I take a full load to show that I can handle it? I ask because I work full-time and wouldn't be able to do that anymore with a full load of science. Also, even if I do well in those courses, will med schools still wonder if I can handle med school since those are just ugrad courses?

 

[theseeker4]

Oh, I see what you mean, Deekle. Also, thanks for giving me some hope. It helps to know that you were able to make it even if it was a bit bumpy to get there.

Hmm, I suppose the best thing to do is just to aim for as high as I can no matter what, especially considering a third take doesn't look so hot anyway. Then if the schools where I end up applying do take the highest or most recent score, I hope I have something good to show.

theseeker4, are you saying that even if I do an SMP that my ugrad GPA will still haunt me? If I take more ugrad classes, should I take a full load to show that I can handle it? I ask because I work full-time and wouldn't be able to do that anymore with a full load of science. Also, even if I do well in those courses, will med schools still wonder if I can handle med school since those are just ugrad courses?

No, a quality SMP OR a post Bach will help you. A standard masters program, in science or otherwise, won't. I assume you have a masters in something related to your major from before, correct? Getting another masters in something, whether it is science or not, won't make up for your undergrad record UNLESS it is an SMP.

If you took an SMP already, and got a 3.0 in it, you would have to talk to someone more knowledgable than I as that could be a serious problem.

 

[lilanon]

No, a quality SMP OR a post Bach will help you. A standard masters program, in science or otherwise, won't. I assume you have a masters in something related to your major from before, correct? Getting another masters in something, whether it is science or not, won't make up for your undergrad record UNLESS it is an SMP.

If you took an SMP already, and got a 3.0 in it, you would have to talk to someone more knowledgable than I as that could be a serious problem.

theseeker 4, yes, the master's is related to my ugrad degree. However, you have me wondering about things. Back in ugrad, I was interested in medicine but wasn't really sure where I was going with it. An adviser suggested I do a certain master's program (more about it below). I was terribly naive about it all and instead of exploring other options and making sure I knew what I was getting into, I applied, got accepted, and completed the program all without realizing the consequences of completing such a program without full commitment to med school. (It's the main reason for my paltry 3.0.) After finishing the program, I ended up working rather than ever applying to med school.

Back then, I didn't know anything about SMPs, post-baccs, etc. Until theseeker4's comments, I still never even considered that my program was any sort of SMP because we never took any classes alongside med students or were compared against them. They also weren't the same courses the med students were taking. I found my program here in category 2 of this list: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=640302 Does anyone know how badly I've messed up? Feeling panicked now that I might have already killed my chances years ago with that terrible 3.0 masters...

 

[lilanon]

Considering what I said above, does anyone have any idea where I should look or who I should ask to find out more about what my next steps should be?

 

[DrMidlife]

Keep it simple.

What are you missing?

For med school admissions, you're missing the app asset that gives a reviewer confidence that you will thrive under a crushing triple load of all science for 2 full years, after which it's just a double load.

That app asset, preferably, needs to be a strong demonstration of academic prowess (such as a 3.7+) in a sustained effort (such as more than one year) in mostly hard science. That could be a 2nd bachelors, an SMP (preferably a 2 year program like Tufts or Boston), or arguably a rigorous traditional masters in a hard bioscience that gets you some pubs. Nobody is going to do your program shopping for you - I made the only list you're ever going to find, and it's 3 years old now.

Just go create that impeccable academic asset. Stop dithering over what your existing numbers mean - you can do exactly nothing about them. You can't control whether a med school will throw your app out for your old numbers, so you have to be humble and apply early and broadly and accept that you aren't in charge of the results. You're in charge of the footwork.

Best of luck to you.

 

[lilanon]

Keep it simple.

What are you missing?

For med school admissions, you're missing the app asset that gives a reviewer confidence that you will thrive under a crushing triple load of all science for 2 full years, after which it's just a double load.

That app asset, preferably, needs to be a strong demonstration of academic prowess (such as a 3.7+) in a sustained effort (such as more than one year) in mostly hard science. That could be a 2nd bachelors, an SMP (preferably a 2 year program like Tufts or Boston), or arguably a rigorous traditional masters in a hard bioscience that gets you some pubs. Nobody is going to do your program shopping for you - I made the only list you're ever going to find, and it's 3 years old now.

Just go create that impeccable academic asset. Stop dithering over what your existing numbers mean - you can do exactly nothing about them. You can't control whether a med school will throw your app out for your old numbers, so you have to be humble and apply early and broadly and accept that you aren't in charge of the results. You're in charge of the footwork.

Best of luck to you.

Hi DrMidlife,

Thank you for your response! I apologize if I sounded like I wanted others to do the footwork for me. I now realize that I didn't state it very well. I was just wondering if anyone knew if doing poorly in a Category 2 program from your list was the "death knell" for med school that people speak of. If no one knew, I was hoping for a clue for where to search for an answer (but not for anyone to do the actual searching for me). The "next steps" I spoke of just meant the future plans I would need to figure out for myself once I knew if I still had a chance at med school. I am hoping that your response means that I still do. I feel a lot better. Thank you very much for your frankness and for cluing me in on where to focus my attention and for your suggestions on other options to consider in addition to the ones I have been contemplating.

 

[xMJ]

I just earned my BA with a GPA of 3.2, and half way through my Master's Program (GPA3.9), determined that it's not for me. I took gen bio I, calc I/II, phys I and gen chem I/II with C's and B's, no organic, genetics, physics II/III, calculus III, physiology, etc. I have never taken the MCAT. Where would I start?

 

[DrMidlife]

I was just wondering if anyone knew if doing poorly in a Category 2 program from your list was the "death knell" for med school that people speak of. If no one knew, I was hoping for a clue for where to search for an answer (but not for anyone to do the actual searching for me).

Given that I made up those categories, don't take them too seriously. Imaginary lines.

I can think of 3 SDN people, off the top of my head, who had to do multiple attempts at GPA redemption, before finishing a program with med-school-worthy stats, and then getting into med school. Such as doing a low-GPA bachelors, followed by a low-GPA postbac, maybe followed by a low-GPA "category 2" program, maybe followed by a rigorous SMP with a high GPA. I'm one of these. I'll leaving identifying the other 2 as an exercise.

If you do lots and lots of reading around here, you'll feel a lot less unique. Some of the highest traffic threads on SDN are the GPA redemption threads.

Do you have more damage than I've ever seen in an SDN person who made it into med school? Not even close. Not even remotely close.

Fundamentally if you're willing to give up trying to get into med school, then you should. Otherwise, keep trying. Simple.

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

I just earned my BA with a GPA of 3.2, and half way through my Master's Program (GPA3.9), determined that it's not for me. I took gen bio I, calc I/II, phys I and gen chem I/II with C's and B's, no organic, genetics, physics II/III, calculus III, physiology, etc. I have never taken the MCAT. Where would I start?

Find a school that will let you take the classes you need. Take the classes. Get straight A's. Take the MCAT. Do well. Apply to med school.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Grad GPA doesn't matter at all. I applied with a 3.2 grad GPA with no degree in hand at the time and still managed to get 3 interview invites (2 MD, 1 DO). I had a good uGPA and a good MCAT (3.7/37), so that probably contributed much more to landing those interviews than anything else I might have done.