Any IM doc making 350k+/yr...

[W19]

Practice setting and hrs/wk?

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[PlutoBoy]

Practice setting and hrs/wk?

My brother. Hospitalist. Kind of a cushy job in Florida (cushy in the sense that he has access to all subspecialists and doesn't have to do procedures, has midlevels, etc). It's still tough. He sees about 25 patients a day. When doing admissions the routine is 15-20.

He works his butt off Monday through Friday. He is also the director of his department but that doesn't add much money to his bottom line.

 

[bronx43]

Yes. Join a multispecialty practice where the group keeps the profits, and where there is a split of the non-stark profits. A guy in a multispecialty group that I know does primary care and pulls $600k. He sees between 30-32 pts a day though.

Also, learn how to bill primary care CPT codes.

 

[Warderino92]

The oncologists in the PP group in my area see about 30-45 patients a day alongside a different NP for each oncologist. Not sure how many infusion chairs but I’d guesstimate close to 100 with an in house pharmacy in addition to having a in house radiologist with machines and rad onc physicians w/ their machines as well. The physicians share ownership in the building and each are assigned to one or two of the hospitals in the city to round at if any of their patients are admitted. Needless to say at the partner level they do extremely well.

 

[IMreshopeful]

My brother. Hospitalist. Kind of a cushy job in Florida (cushy in the sense that he has access to all subspecialists and doesn't have to do procedures, has midlevels, etc). It's still tough. He sees about 25 patients a day. When doing admissions the routine is 15-20.

He works his butt off Monday through Friday. He is also the director of his department but that doesn't add much money to his bottom line.

15-20 admits a day?! That’s an obscenely high number unless you’re supervising residents or midlevels as well. I don’t think that’s a safe number of admits. IMO the maximum number of admits per hospitalist should be 10-11 because that’s the only feasible way you can safely do enough workup on these patients.

 

[PlutoBoy]

15-20 admits a day?! That’s an obscenely high number unless you’re supervising residents or midlevels as well. I don’t think that’s a safe number of admits. IMO the maximum number of admits per hospitalist should be 10-11 because that’s the only feasible way you can safely do enough workup on these patients.

They have midlevels. When they are admitting all they do is admit. No rounding.

 

[DoubleBogey]

My partner pulls 450k, primary care, outpt clinic, rounds on inpt service of 15-20 (some rehab, some placement and others acute on chronic stuff) “round and go”, SNFs and PCH along with home visits. Needless to say, they’re busy, but they like it and are well compensated for it.

 

[IMreshopeful]

They have midlevels. When they are admitting all they do is admit. No rounding.

More reasonable as long as midlevels available

 

[InvestingDoc]

Made > 400k last year as a hospitalist. 7 on, 7 off schedule. I'm also a med director and do some locums shifts on the side so this is why my income was so high.

This year who knows what I'll make. I'm starting up my own business so that will take time to grow. I got tired of someone skimming 20-30% off for the partners and now moving the buy in so high that it is laughable.

 

[DrBill0919]

Practice setting and hrs/wk?

No, unless you consider EM a subspecialty under IM. However, I did get board certified in IM and EM. (Didnt like IM). I do 4 shifts/week in Philadelphia, Friday/Sat/Sun in Pittsburgh (every other weekend).
In philadelphia, i make 625k. The other ER docs arent too happy about my pay, but I average 28 pts + I oversee everything my residents do. The other Dr's average between 10-12/night, and we all work the same schedule. They come to me for help when they need a consult as well. How about that? A caribbean graduate advising 2 guys from Duke, 1 from Columbia, etc on how to handle and manage their patients.
- in pittsburgh i do 2 full weekends on call when im not on the floor (3 days straight) and they give me 300k. No residents there, just a few PAs & NPs

 

[DrBill0919]

15-20 admits a day?! That’s an obscenely high number unless you’re supervising residents or midlevels as well. I don’t think that’s a safe number of admits. IMO the maximum number of admits per hospitalist should be 10-11 because that’s the only feasible way you can safely do enough workup on these patients.

You're kidding right?

 

[IMreshopeful]

You're kidding right?

If you are doing 20 admits in a 12 hour shift you are either short changing and halfassing the admits or pan consulting on everyone. Which I have seen providers do. The only way to make that work is with midlevels and or residents to help with the work.

 

[bronx43]

No, unless you consider EM a subspecialty under IM. However, I did get board certified in IM and EM. (Didnt like IM). I do 4 shifts/week in Philadelphia, Friday/Sat/Sun in Pittsburgh (every other weekend).
In philadelphia, i make 625k. The other ER docs arent too happy about my pay, but I average 28 pts + I oversee everything my residents do. The other Dr's average between 10-12/night, and we all work the same schedule. They come to me for help when they need a consult as well. How about that? A caribbean graduate advising 2 guys from Duke, 1 from Columbia, etc on how to handle and manage their patients.
- in pittsburgh i do 2 full weekends on call when im not on the floor (3 days straight) and they give me 300k. No residents there, just a few PAs & NPs

Lol, that's usually how it goes, right? The Duke and Columbia guys are too busy doing things by the rule book and studying medicine to be business savvy.

 

[Money Moniker]

No, unless you consider EM a subspecialty under IM. However, I did get board certified in IM and EM. (Didnt like IM). I do 4 shifts/week in Philadelphia, Friday/Sat/Sun in Pittsburgh (every other weekend).
In philadelphia, i make 625k. The other ER docs arent too happy about my pay, but I average 28 pts + I oversee everything my residents do. The other Dr's average between 10-12/night, and we all work the same schedule. They come to me for help when they need a consult as well. How about that? A caribbean graduate advising 2 guys from Duke, 1 from Columbia, etc on how to handle and manage their patients.
- in pittsburgh i do 2 full weekends on call when im not on the floor (3 days straight) and they give me 300k. No residents there, just a few PAs & NPs

Hold on, are you saying you make 925? How many days a year do you have off?

 

[Psai]

No, unless you consider EM a subspecialty under IM. However, I did get board certified in IM and EM. (Didnt like IM). I do 4 shifts/week in Philadelphia, Friday/Sat/Sun in Pittsburgh (every other weekend).
In philadelphia, i make 625k. The other ER docs arent too happy about my pay, but I average 28 pts + I oversee everything my residents do. The other Dr's average between 10-12/night, and we all work the same schedule. They come to me for help when they need a consult as well. How about that? A caribbean graduate advising 2 guys from Duke, 1 from Columbia, etc on how to handle and manage their patients.
- in pittsburgh i do 2 full weekends on call when im not on the floor (3 days straight) and they give me 300k. No residents there, just a few PAs & NPs

Lemme guess, you bench 400 one handed and bang 3 chicks a day

 

[siliso]

Base salary circa 220k is par even for a cush VA job. Do extra on your off weeks at other places or do SNF medical directing to supplement to desired compensation - or work harder in another setting and/or in a less desirable geographic location, and do plenty of billable procedures.
I wouldn’t see 30 outpts a day or do 20 admits a day for any amount of money though. 200gs is more than enough to live more than comfortably and I’d rather provide quality care than get quantity bucks. Chacun à son Goût.

 

[chessknt]

Hold on, are you saying you make 925? How many days a year do you have off?

He is making almost 400/hr as a hospitalist (unless he is doing 72h continuous shift) and only 271/hr as EM (assuming 12h shifts, if 8 then its 400/hr)--The EM salary is borderline believable but the hospitalist I can personally guarantee is a lie unless his idea of Pittsburgh is the entire western half of PA

 

[DoubleBogey]

The 2 people in our area pulling >900k are the privately employed who have multiple offices with a legion of APCs and additional providers under them. One is a business savvy IM doc who started his practice in the late 80s and just adapted with the times and didn’t “merge” with a hospital (he has 2 partners and works 1wk a month). The other does psych and has many APCs that just turn and burn - I suspect a lot of incident-to billing.

These are the outliers, and certainly frequency is dependent on market and practice setting. Making > 300k in primary care is certainly doable. For Hospitalist working extra shifts is easily obtainable.

 

[IMreshopeful]

He is making almost 400/hr as a hospitalist (unless he is doing 72h continuous shift) and only 271/hr as EM (assuming 12h shifts, if 8 then its 400/hr)--The EM salary is borderline believable but the hospitalist I can personally guarantee is a lie unless his idea of Pittsburgh is the entire western half of PA

Yeah I smell BS on the hospitalist one. I bet his step 1 score was 290 and he was both junior AND senior AOA.

 

[TraderDoc]

3rd year IM just signed contract. Midwest city (400K population). $260K base, 30K signing bonus, $6K CME, 10% quality incentive bonus can be earned, NOT an RVU production model. Can pick up day shifts "round and go" with no admission or admission only shifts (1300 per shift for 11 hours) or night shift where we admit and do cross cover but no codes, no RRT ($1600 for 10 hours). Not 7 on/7 off, we have modified block scheduling but average out to be 14 shifts/month, will have to do minimum 20 overnights per year. I expect to pick up at least 7 shifts (plenty of availability and there is no nocturnist) per month, mostly round and go and admitting shifts. Most partners do $300K with minimum shift pick up. Im expecting to do at least $375K/ year, but goal would be $400K. No procedures, all sub-specialties available except derm and endocrine, open ICU with 24/7 intensivist support.

One of my former co-residents, now works for RVU based model with $257K base salary. Averages 8-9 overnights a month on top of 10 day shifts. Averages 12-15 admissions per night. He's crushing RVUs and on track for 500K-600K. But hes working so much, clearly not sustainable. I'll take less money for sleeping more at home and rounding during the day is a piece of cake as is admission only.

 

[bronx43]

One of my former co-residents, now works for RVU based model with $257K base salary. Averages 8-9 overnights a month on top of 10 day shifts. Averages 12-15 admissions per night. He's crushing RVUs and on track for 500K-600K. But hes working so much, clearly not sustainable. I'll take less money for sleeping more at home and rounding during the day is a piece of cake as is admission only.

That's a rough schedule. 8-9 nights a month is no joke. I think one can sustain that for two years max.

 

[Army Doctor]

I personally know 2 Hospitalists who cleared 900k plus in a year. Another one I know cleared 800k plus. Another one I know of (third hand) cleared 1.2 million plus.
All depends on number of shifts and RVU structure, volume etc.
Almost everyone I know makes about 300-350k in Northern California. Hospitalist salaries have exploded and demand still much higher than supply

 

[bronx43]

I personally know 2 Hospitalists who cleared 900k plus in a year. Another one I know cleared 800k plus. Another one I know of (third hand) cleared 1.2 million plus.
All depends on number of shifts and RVU structure, volume etc.
Almost everyone I know makes about 300-350k in Northern California. Hospitalist salaries have exploded and demand still much higher than supply

I call BS on this. Even if you're working 250 days a year which is absolute insanity for a hospitalist in the long haul, you'd have to be generating $4800 per shift to make 1.2 M. Even the most desperate hospitals in the most BFE place you can imagine don't shell out almost 5K for a shift.
Now, if you're talking EM, then I have heard of people making that much per shift. But the hospitals that pay that are still few and far between.

 

[Army Doctor]

These are people who work 24 hour shifts on a consistent basis and do not like to work less than 100 hours per week. You can do the Math

 

[Army Doctor]

Outliers but they are there. 350k or even 500k not that hard at all!
All depends on you

 

[Army Doctor]

The idea is to work hard like a resident for 2-3 years, invest, cool off to regular schedule and enjoy benefits off your investments

 

[bronx43]

These are people who work 24 hour shifts on a consistent basis and do not like to work less than 100 hours per week. You can do the Math

I guess if one wants to do 4-5 24 hour shifts a week and kill themselves, they deserve 800-1M. To me, that's simply not good doctoring (as I would not be on top of my game doing multiple 24 hour shifts in a row) and not something I would be able to do, but to each their own.

 

[PlutoBoy]

I call BS on this. Even if you're working 250 days a year which is absolute insanity for a hospitalist in the long haul, you'd have to be generating $4800 per shift to make 1.2 M. Even the most desperate hospitals in the most BFE place you can imagine don't shell out almost 5K for a shift.
Now, if you're talking EM, then I have heard of people making that much per shift. But the hospitals that pay that are still few and far between.

I know a guy like that. He was also working nursing homes, infusion centers, etc. He used to clear 1,000,000 a year. That's until he was audited by Medicare and lost his license for billing dead people.

 

[Army Doctor]

I guess if one wants to do 4-5 24 hour shifts a week and kill themselves, they deserve 800-1M. To me, that's simply not good doctoring (as I would not be on top of my game doing multiple 24 hour shifts in a row) and not something I would be able to do, but to each their own.

We both agree on that! Not for everyone and these are extreme outliers!

 

[Army Doctor]

I know a guy like that. He was also working nursing homes, infusion centers, etc. He used to clear 1,000,000 a year. That's until he was audited by Medicare and lost his license for billing dead people.

It is not uncommon and very unfortunate that we have people with questionable ethics in our profession

 

[oscardagrouch]

My friend makes approx $400K a year as a "hospitalist" . I use quotations, because he is more of a house officer at an LTACH. He said his official title there is hospitalist. Anyway, he does not round on patients, he is just there for every thing else that goes on. He does procedures, manage vents, etc.,

He also work at least 3- 24 hour shifts and 2 - 12 hour shifts a week. He said that the company allows this because he works as an independent contractor.

He also has a few side gigs, like being an administrative medical director at a nursing home, he is a partner in a telemedicine company. All of this add on to what he earns as a hospitalist.

He recently took a position at an immediate care facility so he can get health and retirement benefits, so will be slowing down on the hospital work.

 

[rokshana]

These are people who work 24 hour shifts on a consistent basis and do not like to work less than 100 hours per week. You can do the Math

A typical 7 day stretch is 84 hours so 100 hours is just one more day...

 

[CDI]

3rd year IM just signed contract. Midwest city (400K population). $260K base, 30K signing bonus, $6K CME, 10% quality incentive bonus can be earned, NOT an RVU production model. Can pick up day shifts "round and go" with no admission or admission only shifts (1300 per shift for 11 hours) or night shift where we admit and do cross cover but no codes, no RRT ($1600 for 10 hours). Not 7 on/7 off, we have modified block scheduling but average out to be 14 shifts/month, will have to do minimum 20 overnights per year. I expect to pick up at least 7 shifts (plenty of availability and there is no nocturnist) per month, mostly round and go and admitting shifts. Most partners do $300K with minimum shift pick up. Im expecting to do at least $375K/ year, but goal would be $400K. No procedures, all sub-specialties available except derm and endocrine, open ICU with 24/7 intensivist support.

One of my former co-residents, now works for RVU based model with $257K base salary. Averages 8-9 overnights a month on top of 10 day shifts. Averages 12-15 admissions per night. He's crushing RVUs and on track for 500K-600K. But hes working so much, clearly not sustainable. I'll take less money for sleeping more at home and rounding during the day is a piece of cake as is admission only.

That's a rough schedule. 8-9 nights a month is no joke. I think one can sustain that for two years max.

Feel like it depends on what you're expected to do. 8-9 nights with 12-15 admissions sounds painful.

I signed a similar contract in the DC area but way lower average census (literally 1/3-1/2 of the night time admits)

$260k base, $75k "loan", some quality bonuses/partner bonuses, 4 weeks PTO (<-- I like) and 9 federal holidays off (or paid, I guess)
7 days (14-16 pts rounding only) and 7 nights per month (3-7 admits + cross coverage)

 

[Army Doctor]

A typical 7 day stretch is 84 hours so 100 hours is just one more day...

My apologies to update you but there are 24x7 = 168 hours in a week
Very Respectfully

 

[IMreshopeful]

My apologies to update you but there are 24x7 = 168 hours in a week
Very Respectfully

Working 100 hours basically over 7 days gives you 68 hours “free time”. Let’s say you need 6 hours sleep x 7 days = 42 hours. That leaves you with 24 hours left over the week which is roughly 3 hours per day. At best if you have a 15-30 minute commute then you get 2 hours per day left. To eat, “relax”, exercise (if at all), and interact with others.

Yeah no way. I’ll take less money if it means not working like that for a full week. Even if the other week is off. It’s no worth it.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

My apologies to update you but there are 24x7 = 168 hours in a week
Very Respectfully

They were saying that a 7 day hospitalist stretch of 12 hour days is 84 hours total so 100 hours is only 16 hours more per week than the usual hospitalist schedule...

 

[rokshana]

They were saying that a 7 day hospitalist stretch of 12 hour days is 84 hours total so 100 hours is only 16 hours more per week than the usual hospitalist schedule...

yes, that is exactly what i was saying...if you are working 24 hours as a IM hospitalist, then usually a portion of that time is on a pager at a small hospital...usually those kind of places pay a daily, not hourly rate...and not going toe more than 2k/24hour period.

 

[tartesos]

Yeah I smell BS on the hospitalist one. I bet his step 1 score was 290 and he was both junior AND senior AOA.

Don't dismiss it entirely. Some places pay you just to be there, that could be his case. I don't find it that unreasonable. And why would he lie?


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[chessknt]

Don't dismiss it entirely. Some places pay you just to be there, that could be his case. I don't find it that unreasonable. And why would he lie?


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It is the rate per hour in a well populated area that makes no sense. There are 4 (at least) IM programs pumping doctors out in that city, why would they need to pay 99.9 percentile wage and hunt someone down who lives 6 hours away?

 

[IMreshopeful]

Don't dismiss it entirely. Some places pay you just to be there, that could be his case. I don't find it that unreasonable. And why would he lie?


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That rate near a medium sized city? Unlikely

 

[QueenJames]

I love IM.

 

[CDI]

Don't dismiss it entirely. Some places pay you just to be there, that could be his case. I don't find it that unreasonable. And why would he lie?


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I saw a listing recently for a "sleeping hospitalist" position. I think it was in Pennsylvania.

Literally you just need to physically be there sleeping. The PA/NPs run it, until **** hits the fan...

 

[siliso]

I get headhunter spams for mostly outpatient positions in this salary range on the regular but they never say where they are. They do say that they are close to lovely natural features with a pleasant small town lifestyle and an “easy drive” to civilization. I assume the answer is they’re in the sticks somewhere and I’m not looking to relocate.

Agree that the very money motivated usually have some side hustles. Nursing homes, urgent cares, 2 hospitalist jobs. Or less tastefully selling quackery and vitamin infusions and bioidentical hormones.