ramona223

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Is it unusual for NYCOM students or other DO's to match into this program? I know of PM & R, IM, and FP matches there. I wasn't seeing DO's among the current EM residents, but could be that they don't take many people overall. Seems that many more DO's match at St. Barnabas for EM. Haven't checked out the attendings though...Thanks.
 

igcgnerd

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St Barnabas is a DO program
 

DrQuinn

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I can't imagine MT. Sinai not accepting a Do studnet because of the school they go to, considering the competition. If you are interested in Mt Sinai, I would suggest doing a rotaiton there or atleast sending an email to them letting them know your interest! I was the first DO at my EM program (ok, it was a new program), and the first DO attending at the EM residency I am at, so there is always a "first one."

Q
 

dowiattp

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I can't imagine MT. Sinai not accepting a Do studnet because of the school they go to, considering the competition. If you are interested in Mt Sinai, I would suggest doing a rotaiton there or atleast sending an email to them letting them know your interest! I was the first DO at my EM program (ok, it was a new program), and the first DO attending at the EM residency I am at, so there is always a "first one."

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Agreed. I'm pretty sure it was my performance during my away rotation that got me into my program (first DO at my program also). Good luck!
 

Egon

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They have DO attendings at Mt Sinai but no residents in recent years. I would do a roation there if you're interested and if you do a good job you'll get an interview. The competition for residents has gone up aming the NYC programs as spots have increased citywide over the ast few years, so you should be the one to convince them to take DOs again!

Most residents that do a rotation and do a nice job usually match there if they want to stay.
 
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ramona223

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They have DO attendings at Mt Sinai but no residents in recent years. I would do a roation there if you're interested and if you do a good job you'll get an interview. The competition for residents has gone up aming the NYC programs as spots have increased citywide over the ast few years, so you should be the one to convince them to take DOs again!

Most residents that do a rotation and do a nice job usually match there if they want to stay.
that's great to know :D thank you so much!
 
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ramona223

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I think you have to clarify - do you mean Mt. Sinai in Manhattan, or Mt. Sinai in Miami Beach, which has a DO residency?
nyc. i noticed there was a miami program-
that actually related back to my original point of curiosity being that there weren't any DO residents at mt. sinai nyc.
in other words, i thought there was a possibility of few or no DO's at mt. sinai nyc owing to the fact that there was a mt. sinai DO residency in miami...then again, i wasn't sure if they were the same mt. sinai either...interesting point of clarification.
 

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I believe there has been discussions before on this forum on how IMG/DO unfriendly Mt. Sinai is.

Sometimes It surprises and frightens me to think how shallow we are as doctors. We are the people that talked about how much we want to help people on our med school applications, and if there were an ethical interview question that asked us "Would you hire someone who's less able but graduated from a better known school, or someone who's more able but graduated from a lesser known school" I bet the great majority if not all of us would choose the more able individual and go on to tell the interviewer on how much we all value ability over name.

There are laws prohibiting any considerations on gender, race, religion..etc when hiring somebody and I don't see how educational background should be any different. Some might argue that people are born with gender and race, and schooling is something one can choose(or can they?), but really, if the person is perfectly able for the job, what does the name of the school do for any one of us besides satisfying our own shallowness? And if a residency program director really believes the name of a school will help him/her decide who's more able/better fit, then we should all seriously question the intelligence and the ability of that PD, and suggest to him/her to stop screwing around and start paying more attention to all those other information available such as scores, grades, evals, lors, interviews or even just simply noticing the med student who's doing an elective rotation in his/her own ED. But of course, in reality, those important info are often overlooked just because someone graduated from certain schools. Good job people, PDs, doctors, or whatever you call yourselves.
 
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ramona223

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I believe there has been discussions before on this forum on how IMG/DO unfriendly Mt. Sinai is.

Sometimes It surprises and frightens me to think how shallow we are as doctors. We are the people that talked about how much we want to help people on our med school applications, and if there were an ethical interview question that asked us "Would you hire someone who's less able but graduated from a better known school, or someone who's more able but graduated from a lesser known school" I bet the great majority if not all of us would choose the more able individual and go on to tell the interviewer on how much we all value ability over name.

There are laws prohibiting any considerations on gender, race, religion..etc when hiring somebody and I don't see how educational background should be any different. Some might argue that people are born with gender and race, and schooling is something one can choose(or can they?), but really, if the person is perfectly able for the job, what does the name of the school do for any one of us besides satisfying our own shallowness? And if a residency program director really believes the name of a school will help him/her decide who's more able/better fit, then we should all seriously question the intelligence and the ability of that PD, and suggest to him/her to stop screwing around and start paying more attention to all those other information available such as scores, grades, evals, lors, interviews or even just simply noticing the med student who's doing an elective rotation in his/her own ED. But of course, in reality, those important info are often overlooked just because someone graduated from certain schools. Good job people, PDs, doctors, or whatever you call yourselves.
i think for some programs it is most definitely a "status thing" in believing that the IMG's/DO's : prestige
exists. i personally believe it's more of a marketing scheme, but for who, i don't know (i.e. I frankly doubt the majority of patients in the ER are checking on their physician's educational background).

additionally, it is a personal bias thing at the level of the pd. as far as EM, my understanding is that DO's are well represented and received in the field. i've also heard some clamor regarding DO programs not considering MD's at all-
itself another can of worms.

i did notice that residency programs like to list the undergrad and grad institutions of their current residents next to their pictures. st. luke's program actually puts "MD" next to their DO EM residents, but perhaps this was an innocent mistake on behalf of the webmaster (I only know this because it says they graduated from NYCOM). perhaps this marketing "schematic," if it exists, is directed at potential residents much the same way some graduate institutions have an affinity for their students' undergrad institution.
 

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My 2 cents, and let me preface this by saying that I don't think MDs or DOs, one is better than the other at treating patients, are better trained, etc. But the system doesn't makes sense to me. Either say that MD and DO is the same training and just have one cert. If people want to go to a med school that teaches things like acupuncture then they should go there, but in the end it's the same degree. Or say that the MD and DO are really very different, have different empahsis in the training and techniques and therefore have separate residencies, med student rotations etc.

Selecting people based on their previous education happens all the time, it isn't discrimination. RNs, PA, EMTs etc can't go into a MD residency because they have a different set of training than someone who has gone to medical school. I'm not saying that DOs shouldn't be at MD programs. But it isn't logical to argue that these two certifications are equivalent but different and different enough that you need to have different tests, degrees, school governing bodies etc.

I know that this comes from the facts that MD and DO started out very different historically and then have moved closer together. But either they are very different and therefore people trained in one system shouldn't be in a residency or rotation in another system, or they are really the same and we should just have one kind of degree.
 

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jbar, what you are questioning is valid but I think it's a different topic. All I was saying is that, is the applicant qualified for the job, legally(yes DO/IMG but not rn, pa..etc) and ability wise. If the applicant is great for the job but ended up not considered due to the name of the school they went to is shallowness and discrimination ethically(but not legally) no matter how a PD spins it. And these are the type of shallow people that we consider as our colleagues and expect them to take care of people from all walks of life regardless of their backgrounds. Of course they'll treat all people the same on their sickbeds, just not when they are applying for a job. yep yep.
 
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ramona223

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My 2 cents, and let me preface this by saying that I don't think MDs or DOs, one is better than the other at treating patients, are better trained, etc. But the system doesn't makes sense to me. Either say that MD and DO is the same training and just have one cert. If people want to go to a med school that teaches things like acupuncture then they should go there, but in the end it's the same degree. Or say that the MD and DO are really very different, have different empahsis in the training and techniques and therefore have separate residencies, med student rotations etc.

I know that this comes from the facts that MD and DO started out very different historically and then have moved closer together. But either they are very different and therefore people trained in one system shouldn't be in a residency or rotation in another system, or they are really the same and we should just have one kind of degree.
equal but different is indeed an oxymoron. my personal opinion on it is that it is more of a "pride" thing, and to a point, marketing/brainwashing on the DO end of the stick. although i think these discrepencies exist to a large degree as a result of DO schools being the minority in terms of numbers and wanting to, "stand up to the big, square, researched-oriented, md monster."
 

jbar

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jbar, what you are questioning is valid but I think it's a different topic. All I was saying is that, is the applicant qualified for the job, legally(yes DO/IMG but not rn, pa..etc) and ability wise. If the applicant is great for the job but ended up not considered due to the name of the school they went to is shallowness and discrimination ethically(but not legally) no matter how a PD spins it. And these are the type of shallow people that we consider as our colleagues and expect them to take care of people from all walks of life regardless of their backgrounds. Of course they'll treat all people the same on their sickbeds, just not when they are applying for a job. yep yep.
When hiring people it's not just about qualifications but about "fit." Who is going to work well in that situation. If one buys into the idea that MD and DO are based on different ideals and philosophies of medicine, then I could understand someone hiring for an institution that is comprised mainly of MDs and is training MD medical students to have concerns about how a DO would "fit."

Personally the DOs I've met seem to fit very well into these places and strike me as being as well trained as the MDs. But by having a system that defines these two tracts as different makes it harder for DOs to break into places that are all MD. Like I said, either you say these two things are very different and it's okay to keep DOs out because they have a different philosophy, or you say they are pretty much the same and we should just have one degree. I come down on the side of the later.