Any med school out there take Gross Anatomy without disecting HUMAN bodies?

MD2b20004

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I heard about the new technology of some schools (hersay) so I do not know how much of it is true, that some schools adapted to using something like a dummy version of a human body to educate their students about gross anatomy.
 

anon-y-mouse

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MD2b20004 said:
I heard about the new technology of some schools (hersay) so I do not know how much of it is true, that some schools adapted to using something like a dummy version of a human body to educate their students about gross anatomy.
Caribbean?
 

ComfortableWolf

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As far as I know Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of medicine only uses prosections and computer programs with an option to do a prosections for sirst years as a 2nd year (disclaimer: I am NOT a student at CCLCM)

MD2b20004 said:
I heard about the new technology of some schools (hersay) so I do not know how much of it is true, that some schools adapted to using something like a dummy version of a human body to educate their students about gross anatomy.
 
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ComfortableWolf said:
As far as I know Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of medicine only uses prosections and computer programs with an option to do a prosections for sirst years as a 2nd year (disclaimer: I am NOT a student at CCLCM)
I am an M1 at CCLCM, and no worries, you did a pretty good job of explaining. :)

OP, like ComfortableWolf (great name, by the way!) said, we use prosections our first year. But they are on actual human bodies, so I think that this is not really the kind of program you are asking about. The dissections are done by surgery residents at the Cleveland Clinic. We don't have a traditional lab experience here though, and not just because we don't dissect during M1. The bodies we use are not preserved-no formaldehyde. Also, we do case-based anatomy sessions. And since we don't take any tests here, we do not have lab practicals like they do at most med schools. During the second year, we have the option of taking a dissection elective and helping the residents set up the prosections for the first years. Anatomy is also integrated into our clinical years along with the rest of the basic sciences.

I haven't actually started anatomy yet, but as far as I know, there are no "dummies" used to teach anatomy at CCLCM, unless you count the skeletons. But I think that most med schools use those. :)
 

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CCLCMer said:
I am an M1 at CCLCM, and no worries, you did a pretty good job of explaining. :)

OP, like ComfortableWolf (great name, by the way!) said, we use prosections our first year. But they are on actual human bodies, so I think that this is not really the kind of program you are asking about. The dissections are done by surgery residents at the Cleveland Clinic. We don't have a traditional lab experience here though, and not just because we don't dissect during M1. The bodies we use are not preserved-no formaldehyde. Also, we do case-based anatomy sessions. And since we don't take any tests here, we do not have lab practicals like they do at most med schools. During the second year, we have the option of taking a dissection elective and helping the residents set up the prosections for the first years. Anatomy is also integrated into our clinical years along with the rest of the basic sciences.

I haven't actually started anatomy yet, but as far as I know, there are no "dummies" used to teach anatomy at CCLCM, unless you count the skeletons. But I think that most med schools use those. :)
you don't take tests? what? :eek:

MSU CHM is the same way... they have prosections which are dissected during the previous summer by incoming 2nd years, but I believe they are preserved in formaldehyde... (i'm not a student there)
 

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I HATED anatomy, and almost failed it, but I think it is very important to study actual human cadavers. It really gives you a sense of what the organs are like that I don't think could be replicated with a computer program.
 

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anon-y-mouse said:
Caribbean?
Given the lack of red tape and amount of pull some of those med schools have with local authorities, I would think they would have a much easier time getting fresh "bodies" than their US counterparts. :eek:

To the OP and others who have yet to matriculate -- I encourage you to consider schools with actual cadavers a positive -- you will learn (and overcome) a lot. And your dissection partners often become good friends throughout school.
 

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I didn't particularly like anatomy lab, probably b/c my school does a poor job of teaching it. Anyhow, going to lab/dissecting at my school isn't mandatory, so I learned most of anatomy by looking at prosections, particularly head and neck anatomy and the pelvic region.
 

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The only school I've ever heard of that has a no-cadavers anatomy course is the Hull-York school in England.

I don't think having no-cadavers anatomy is a strong reason for choosing one med school over another, unless perhaps you have personal ethical (i.e. religious) reasons for it. It only takes about a day to get used to dissecting and most people really shouldn't have any problems with it.
 

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jennyboo said:
The only school I've ever heard of that has a no-cadavers anatomy course is the Hull-York school in England.

I don't think having no-cadavers anatomy is a strong reason for choosing one med school over another, unless perhaps you have personal ethical (i.e. religious) reasons for it. It only takes about a day to get used to dissecting and most people really shouldn't have any problems with it.
Are there religions that object to cadaver dissection? I know there are religions whose followers cannot be cadavers, but not generally that prohibit the dissection of someone else in the course of higher education. The folks you dissect have consented to the procedure and you can do them no further harm so I cannot imagine much of an ethical objection that would prohibit dissection but permit you to do much of the other kinds of stuff you are going to be doing as a physician. You are going to be as evasive on live people in the later years.
 

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Université de Montréal doesn't use cadavers anymore due both to the difficulty of obtaining them as well as the ethical issues therein. From what i remember of the presentation on interview day, anatomy is taught using computers.....I don't think i'd like that.
 

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fun8stuff said:
you don't take tests? what? :eek:

MSU CHM is the same way... they have prosections which are dissected during the previous summer by incoming 2nd years, but I believe they are preserved in formaldehyde... (i'm not a student there)
Nope, not a one, except for the boards of course. :cool: CCLCM is completely pass-fail for all five years, and there is no class ranking or tests here. We get evaluated a lot, though, by our physician advisors, our research preceptors, other faculty like coursemasters, our classmates, and ourselves. To prove that we are ready to advance to the following year, we have to assemble portfolios to show competency in nine different areas, including clinical skills, medical knowledge, research skills, professionalism, self-reflection, etc. So it's not like we're just hanging out at the beach for five years. We don't have tests, so we don't have to ever cram, but we have to attend class every day and study every day. We can't take off for a week or two in between tests like a lot of med students at other schools seem to be able to do. ;)
 

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CCLCMer said:
We can't take off for a week or two in between tests like a lot of med students at other schools seem to be able to do. ;)
Like many things on SDN, the freedom of the post-exam week is greatly exaggerated. :rolleyes:
 

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Law2Doc said:
Like many things on SDN, the freedom of the post-exam week is greatly exaggerated. :rolleyes:
You have no idea how much better that makes me feel to hear you say that. :laugh:
 

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Law2Doc said:
Are there religions that object to cadaver dissection? I know there are religions whose followers cannot be cadavers, but not generally that prohibit the dissection of someone else in the course of higher education.

There are some Jews who can't touch a dead body. I don't know if there are expections for learning. That's the only group I know that wouldn't be able to do dissections.
 

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I think to learn Anatomy one should have the impact that can only be imposed by lisnin to the demos plus disecting and reading the books....anatomy is vast and needs patience.

There are colleges that have replaced the bodies by dummies ....if it happens to serve the purpose of learning i guess its okay to use 'em ....thats not happenin at our college so we dissect and it never occured to most of us that it was gross but we often worried about the moral issues related to the cutting-up-the-dead!
 

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there is something to be said for discovering the different layers of the human body through active dissection versus mere observation in a prosection. i can't tell you how many times i've had to cry in exasperation "where is that frickin ____ structure?" in anatomy lab, but in the end it made me learn it better.
 
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