Any of these options viable?

[esob]

OK, so I've remapped things out and I'm pretty confident I can apply in the 2018 cycle IF I do one of the following:

1. CLEP Chem I
2. Take Ochem II as a summer course
3. Take the MCAT before I take biochem ( I know this is a bad idea)

Anyway, the sequence to get to biochem I need is Chem 1+2, then OChem 1+2. Even though I've had an advanced math course at TCU and taken Calculus in HS AND already taken and passed Chem1 already, I am unable to register for it this semester because my local community college thinks I can't handle the math, lol.

Granted, I wasn't planning on taking Chem this semester, but now that I've mapped an accelerated plan I really need it but can't take it. In order to be on time to have biochem before the 2018 MCAT I need to either CLEP Chem 1 or I will end up taking Ochem II during the summer 2017 semester.

The other option of course is to stick with my original plan to apply in the 2019 cycle but all this talk lately about bias against older non trad's (and what I read in the Med School RX book) are making me think slow and steady might not be the right approach. As it stands I'll be 43 when if I apply in 2018 and 44 when I matriculate.

Anyway, at this point I'm leaning toward taking Ochem 2 as a summer course.

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[Dullhead]

...
Take the MCAT before I take biochem ( I know this is a bad idea)

Anyway, the sequence to get to biochem I need is Chem 1+2, then OChem 1+2.
...
As it stands I'll be 43 when if I apply in 2018 and 44 when I matriculate.

- I know this is SDN, but it's not a bad idea if you know you can handle it and are willing to do the work.
- If willing to take biochem online (UNECOM), I think they only require one semester of organic (please verify yourself)
- I'll be 44 when I matriculate as well, provided things go as planned. I feel your pain.

 

[esob]

ATM, I can only see two things that could derail my chances at Med School: a poor MCAT or my age. I think age really is only a factor for MD schools, as it doesn't seem to be such a negative for D.O. schools. That leaves only the MCAT as the one obstacle that could stand in my way, so my focus is directed at giving myself every possible chance to do well. I've always scored in the 90th percentile or better on standardized tests (94th or better since I started treating my ADHD) so I've got the test taking skill, I just need to make sure I get proper exposure to the material. I will check out UNECOM and see if it is a viable option, thanks for the heads up.

 

[WGSgrad]

I vote for option 2. If it's the only class you are taking and it's an 8-12 week course and not one of those crazy short 3-4 week summer courses.

I don't think option 1 is a good idea because I don't know that CLEP Chem 1 will be acceptable to most schools as there is no lab. I guess you could call around to all the Texas schools...

I don't think option 3 is a good idea because of the reason you outlined. The MCAT is hard enough with out creating any additional challenges for yourself.

I look forward to continuing to follow your journey. (I'm inspired by people who are a bit older than I am and have a lot at stake but go for it.) Best of luck!

 

[QofQuimica]

I don't understand why you have to CLEP Chem 1 if you've already taken and passed it...do you mean that you took it in HS? If you have Chem 1 on another transcript from another college, and your current school will allow you to CLEP it for their purposes, then heck, CLEP away. If you took it in HS, be careful. Not all med schools will accept HS chem credits, so check with the schools where you're planning on applying.

Other possible options:
- take online biochem, as others have already suggested.
- take Chem 1 this semester but at another school
- wait the extra year. Dude/tte, no offense, since you and I are apparently the exact same age, but do you honestly think it's going to make that much difference if you're 43 versus 44 when you apply? Either way, you're going to be old enough to be most of your classmates' parent, and one more year ain't gonna matter that much to the 30-year-old freshly minted faculty adcom who's interviewing you, either. :-/

 

[WGSgrad]

Also, aren't you using Texas' Academic Fresh Start? Seems like another reason not to CLEP Chem 1 as these are the only science grades adcoms are going to see, no?

 

[GreenDuck12]

I would highly encourage you not to rush your preparation for applying to medical school (post bac classes/MCAT prep/volunteering/shadowing). The application process is something that you really only want to go through once (it is expensive!). If you have to choose one of the options above, summer o-chem is the best option. I would not recommend CLEP credit as it will limit your options of where you can apply. I would not recommend taking the mcat before biochem as it is unlikely that you will be prepared to earn the highest maximum score on the MCAT. The MCAT is a test that you really only want to take once as medical schools will be able to see all of your prior scores when you apply.

 

[New_Slang]

I took the MCAT 2015 without Biochem. But I took Ochem (full length semester) which at my school was like baby-Biochem. I think it is do-able if you are willing to do the extra studying to learn it on your own (Khan Academy is great for this).

I don't know why people are so afraid of summer courses. If you have nothing else going on in your life but daily life and a summer course, there is absolutely no reason you won't get an A. Treat it like a 9-5 job and study all day.

 

[esob]

Yes, I'm using fresh start, which is why I have to retake chem 1. And yes, it seems clepping it not really an option, not so much because of the prereq lecture (TMDSAS notes you can clep those courses as long as your university gives you credit for them) but because clepping it won't give me a lab credit. This basically would force me to take an upper level chem course with a lab in order to hit the number of chem lab hours I need and that's not really a good option either. Yesterday I went ahead and emailed the dean of math and science in a final plea to have them lift the restriction. Hopefully my case will be compelling enough to convince her to lift it.

 

[WGSgrad]

Yes, I'm using fresh start, which is why I have to retake chem 1. And yes, it seems clepping it not really an option, not so much because of the prereq lecture (TMDSAS notes you can clep those courses as long as your university gives you credit for them) but because clepping it won't give me a lab credit. This basically would force me to take an upper level chem course with a lab in order to hit the number of chem lab hours I need and that's not really a good option either. Yesterday I went ahead and emailed the dean of math and science in a final plea to have them lift the restriction. Hopefully my case will be compelling enough to convince her to lift it.

This was always my strategy (and what I was told to do by professors/administrators) at university. If your request is reasonable and warranted, keep asking until someone says yes. Often, they will eventually, because they want you to go away.

 

[QofQuimica]

Yeah that seems like the best option. If they still won't bend, then just take the extra year.

Honestly, esob, if you're going to experience age discrimination in the app process, it's already too late now to mitigate that by trying to apply one year earlier. Even if you applied today, at age 40, you're already so many standard deviations outside the mean applicant age that you're going to stick out to everybody as the old guy no matter what. So the best thing you can do for yourself at this point is to make your transcripts and MCAT score as stellar as possible, not try to game the system by manipulating your app year. In other words, your strategy should be to show that you can hang with the kids academically, not to try to pretend you're still one of them.

 

[QofQuimica]

I don't know why people are so afraid of summer courses. If you have nothing else going on in your life but daily life and a summer course, there is absolutely no reason you won't get an A. Treat it like a 9-5 job and study all day.

That's a pretty big "if." Considering that OP has two special needs children in the home and is disabled himself, I suspect it's fair to say that he likely does NOT have "nothing else going on" in his life. :-/

 

[WGSgrad]

That's a pretty big "if." Considering that OP has two special needs children in the home and is disabled himself, I suspect it's fair to say that he likely does NOT have "nothing else going on" in his life. :-/

Did not know about the other life obligations when I suggested option 2...

I guess you know yourself but I would just urge you to be very careful. You admitted to worrying that there might be some age descrimination in the application process, which is illegal (I know, people are human)...don't give them a legitimate reason to reject you because your scores/GPA aren't on par.

 

[New_Slang]

That's a pretty big "if." Considering that OP has two special needs children in the home and is disabled himself, I suspect it's fair to say that he likely does NOT have "nothing else going on" in his life. :-/

Definitely didn't know his specifics, was just giving general advice. Thanks for pointing it out for future posts.

 

[doctorold]

your strategy should be to show that you can hang with the kids academically, not to try to pretend you're still one of them.

I like this, Q! You sound wiser everyday

 

[esob]

Yeah, well I don't look that old Yes, I know 1 year doesn't seem like much of a difference, its just a small source of anxiety because its the one thing I have literally zero control over. If I get good or bad grades or a rockstar MCAT or amazing EC's, the onus is on me. With my age, well that's on physics, I can't really do much about it, lol. Summer classes when you have teenagers with Asperger's is going to be a bit tricky, but I will pull it off no matter what. I'm already planning on taking the oldest with me for my Saturday and Sunday classes this semester.

 

[QofQuimica]

I would argue that the fact you have no control over you age means it should be a source of NO anxiety to you. No matter what happens, you will be over the age of 40 when you apply to medical school. There is nothing that can be done to change that, short of someone inventing a time machine. And therefore, it is not something worth worrying about. At all. Will you experience some covert age discrimination due to being an applicant in your 40s? Possibly. Will you experience some "discrimination" for having subpar stats if you don't do well in your classes/on the MCAT? 100% absolutely. The good news, as you said, is that your grades and MCAT score are both highly correlated to your personal effort. So focus your effort (and your anxiety) on these factors you can control, both of which are extremely important to ALL adcoms. And forget about the factor you can't control, which may not even be an issue with the specific adcoms who review your app, and certainly won't matter to all of them even if it matters to some.

 

[esob]

I would argue that the fact you have no control over you age means it should be a source of NO anxiety to you. No matter what happens, you will be over the age of 40 when you apply to medical school. There is nothing that can be done to change that, short of someone inventing a time machine. And therefore, it is not something worth worrying about. At all. Will you experience some covert age discrimination due to being an applicant in your 40s? Possibly. Will you experience some "discrimination" for having subpar stats if you don't do well in your classes/on the MCAT? 100% absolutely. The good news, as you said, is that your grades and MCAT score are both highly correlated to your personal effort. So focus your effort (and your anxiety) on these factors you can control, both of which are extremely important to ALL adcoms. And forget about the factor you can't control, which may not even be an issue with the specific adcoms who review your app, and certainly won't matter to all of them even if it matters to some.

Sound reasoning, it makes me feel better So onward and upward with MCAT study, I've got just under 2 years til test day!

 

[esob]

Update:

Well I was able to convince the dean to lift the prereq requirement. The bad news is that the only prof available has a 2.4 on rate my professor. I know rating isn't the end all but I am concerned with my GPA. Seems mostly the issue stems from the fact he has a medical condition that causes him to slur his words and mumble. Well anyway, I can teach myself the material as long as he only tests on what is on the slides and in the book, so I'm not too worried about that. I reason that taking chem1 with a "meh" prof over a regular long semester is a better idea than trying to take OrgII over the course of 6 weeks in the summer.

 

[WGSgrad]

Update:

Well I was able to convince the dean to lift the prereq requirement. The bad news is that the only prof available has a 2.4 on rate my professor. I know rating isn't the end all but I am concerned with my GPA. Seems mostly the issue stems from the fact he has a medical condition that causes him to slur his words and mumble. Well anyway, I can teach myself the material as long as he only tests on what is on the slides and in the book, so I'm not too worried about that. I reason that taking chem1 with a "meh" prof over a regular long semester is a better idea than trying to take OrgII over the course of 6 weeks in the summer.

1. Congrats. It takes victories of all sizes.
2. RateMyProfessor...population bias. Most of the students who use RateMyProfessor use it as a platform for grievances in classes where they performed badly. I'm not saying there couldn't be some truth to the statements, but take it with salt.
3. As long as the expectations for the material over which you are to be tested is clear, I think you'll do well. And you can always use other resources like Khan Academy.

Again, congrats!

 

[esob]

Yeah, I'm excited to get both chem and bio in during this semester. That said, I did go ahead and drop down to 3 classes plus 2 labs. I hope this doesn't count too harshly against me but if I manage to work less than 50 hrs a week plus school it will be a small miracle, plus I've got to manage to squeeze some EC's in during that time. The way my schedule is going to work out there is basically no semester in which I need to take more than 3 classes to graduate, so I don't really ever foresee being a technical "full time" student anyway.

 

[WGSgrad]

Yeah, I'm excited to get both chem and bio in during this semester. That said, 1) I did go ahead and drop down to 3 classes plus 2 labs. 2) I hope this doesn't count too harshly against me but if I manage to work less than 50 hrs a week plus school it will be a small miracle, 3) plus I've got to manage to squeeze some EC's in during that time. The way my schedule is going to work out there is basically no semester in which I need to take more than 3 classes to graduate, so 4) I don't really ever foresee being a technical "full time" student anyway.

1) For this Spring 2016 semester, correct? Or were you speaking of this summer...
2) I really don't think it will be a problem (as long as you excel), particularly as a non-traditional student. I think when adcoms speak of "full course loads" I think they are trying to deter traditional students from significantly reducing their course load in an effort to secure an 'A' because the academic conditions are less stressful. I think non-traditional students who tackle coursework along with the demands of a full time job (and in your case, parental obligations) can adequately demonstrate their ability to be successful under stressful academic conditions.
3) The ECs... That is what I am trying to figure out as well. There are things I would like to do...a fellowship or apply for a Fulbright, but I'm worried that I won't log enough clinical/shadowing hours. I am thinking about applying for a physician scribe position...
4) I think if you excel academically, with your background and experiences, you are going to be fine.

Again, I wish you the best of luck with this semester (mine starts in a week). I look forward to following your journey.

 

[Seattle Mariners Fan]

Why wouldn't you take biochem before the MCAT? Biochem and biology carry roughly equal weight on the exam, and you're going to have to take biochemistry at some point.

Better off taking ochem II after the exam - there's not much on the exam that wasn't covered in my ochem i

 

[esob]

1) For this Spring 2016 semester, correct? Or were you speaking of this summer...
2) I really don't think it will be a problem (as long as you excel), particularly as a non-traditional student. I think when adcoms speak of "full course loads" I think they are trying to deter traditional students from significantly reducing their course load in an effort to secure an 'A' because the academic conditions are less stressful. I think non-traditional students who tackle coursework along with the demands of a full time job (and in your case, parental obligations) can adequately demonstrate their ability to be successful under stressful academic conditions.
3) The ECs... That is what I am trying to figure out as well. There are things I would like to do...a fellowship or apply for a Fulbright, but I'm worried that I won't log enough clinical/shadowing hours. I am thinking about applying for a physician scribe position...
4) I think if you excel academically, with your background and experiences, you are going to be fine.

Again, I wish you the best of luck with this semester (mine starts in a week). I look forward to following your journey.

Yes, for spring. I could add other courses for a few semesters to get up to 4 or 5, but then I would have to drop some future semesters down to 1 or 2 classes since I've completed a lot of my "filler" hours already. I only need 22 classes to graduate and fulfill my prereqs, but the the nature of the prerequisite courses for many of those upper level courses means I have to space them out over 3 years, otherwise I'd just quit working all together and take 5 classes per semester plus a couple summer courses and be done And good luck to you as well, I'm starting on Tuesday myself and scrambling to get as much work done as possible before school starts so that I don't end up too stressed about what is going on with work and then not be able to study.

Why wouldn't you take biochem before the MCAT? Biochem and biology carry roughly equal weight on the exam, and you're going to have to take biochemistry at some point.

Better off taking ochem II after the exam - there's not much on the exam that wasn't covered in my ochem i

Well because I need to take biochem at my 4 year as part of my degree and they wont let you take biochem until you have taken Ochem II.

 

[WGSgrad]

No need to add more classes. I think the plan you have in place is good...

You have to take organic chemistry II before you can take biochemistry at your school? That's interesting. Do the schools you are applying to require orgo II? I was planning to take it until I realized none of the twenty five schools currently on my list required it.

 

[esob]

No need to add more classes. I think the plan you have in place is good...

You have to take organic chemistry II before you can take biochemistry at your school? That's interesting. Do the schools you are applying to require orgo II? I was planning to take it until I realized none of the twenty five schools currently on my list required it.

Yes, it's a prereq for Biochem and yes, all Texas schools require 8 hours of Ochem as prereq's.

Why not take UNE's? It is generally reviewed positively.

It was an option I was considering, but shouldn't have to now that I was able to get into a course. However if this chem prof is really bad then I might have to revamp my plans.

 

[esob]

Well, it turns out the slurring/mumbling was just too bad. I figured I'd just teach myself from the book, but after the first quiz it turns out he pulls most of his questions from the lecture. Since the majority of his speech is incoherent it's nearly impossible to to extrapolate what he's trying to teach. I dropped the class today as I can't risk having to explain a B in Chem 1 in an interview (I'm sure I could get a B but an A, even with an infinite amount of work, I don't think is possible). The good news is I've found that I can actually take biochem at my 4 year after only 1 semester of Ochem so everything is still on schedule. I am kind of bummed though because I was enjoying reading the chem book, but I dreaded going to lecture because it was just 90 minutes of trying to guess at what he was saying.

 

[Goro]

OP, some of my all time best students have been in their 30s and 40s. I graduated one stellar one at 50 last year.

 

[esob]

OP, some of my all time best students have been in their 30s and 40s. I graduated one stellar one at 50 last year.

That's actually really encouraging that your school didn't discriminate against that applicant. I hope there are many schools out there with the same practices, though I'm mostly at peace with the fact that all I can do at this point is excel in my academics, MCAT and volunteering since there is nothing I can do about my age

 

[GreenDuck12]

OP, I work with an organization that receives well over 60k+ applications a year with a 10% acceptance rate. We LOVE applicants that are older for many reasons but one of the big ones is that older applicants tend to keep their heads screwed on when the "**** hits the fan." The only thing we carefully watch for is how open an older applicant is to learning through critique i.e. is this applicant going to get pissed off when someone who is younger tells them how to do something better. We work this in during the interview to see how they react. For the older applicants that "pass" this interview test, the acceptance rate is significantly higher than the younger applicants. Long story short, age and experience can be a huge asset depending on how you set it up. Hope to see you in a Texas MD program soon.

That's actually really encouraging that your school didn't discriminate against that applicant. I hope there are many schools out there with the same practices, though I'm mostly at peace with the fact that all I can do at this point is excel in my academics, MCAT and volunteering since there is nothing I can do about my age

 

[esob]

Again this is encouraging. I've got coders half my age correcting my work all the time (and I'm the one who writes their paychecks, lol) so I'm pretty used to by now

 

[Ad2b]

OP... I graduated one stellar one at 50 last year.

To add to that:

Tulane will be graduating a 55 year old this May
Marshall will be graduating a 58 year old in 2019 (yes, I'm talking 'bout you itsabeautiful )

And if I'm to be blessed with matriculation, I will be in between those two when I graduate...

Age is a question for the adcoms. BUT less of a deterrent than poor decision making. Take the year, do it right, get it done, apply, then smile.

good luck!!!