Any one in the HSPS scholarship program?

[MDB0073]

hello all,

I just wanted to hear from some of you that are in the HSPS scholarship program. I am thinking of doing it through the air force. Just tell me about what activities you have to do while in the program (during summers or during the year). Anyone regret being in the program? Just give me some all around info. Look forward to hearing some responses.

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[fun8stuff]

In my opinion this has always seemed similar to 'making a deal with the devil'. You get your med school paid for... but you are signing your life away to the military for at least 4 years. Not worth it in my opinion. After I am done being my med school's bitch and my residency's bitch I hope that I am only my wife's bitch.... not the government's bitch.

But with that said, I know there are people who think it would be fun or something to be in the military... or they have a glorified the idea of being a flight doc or something. The question is... do you have anybody in your close family who is in the military? If so, and you still want to sign up.. kudos to you!

 

[kingcer0x]

Really briefly b4 I go to bed:

AF HPSP, joined in 2004
Went to COT before M1 - Maxwell, AL
Went to USAF SAM HPSP Intro course (no tests, activities were fun, lots of flight surgeon recuiting, more like an excuse to go to San Antonio for 3 weeks, super fun)
Will do ADT 3 between next July (07) and next September (07)
Will do ADT 4 between next August (07) and March 2008
Apply to JSGME for residency: Sep 07
Know about Mil reidency: Dec 15
Civilian Match: Mar 15 08
Enter Active Duty residency: July 2008

Thats pretty much all I have done or will have to do while in med school, they do a good job of leaving you alone for the most part. The ADTs which are medical rotations are more like 4 week long interviews where you are judged on your strength as an applicant to the JSGME.

Now, whether or not you want to do the program is up to you. Talk to Active military physicians about what their lives are like. what seems like 4 years could very easily become 5 or 6, so find out what you are getting into... I am not the source for that yet take care

 

[BeatArmy]

Don't do it for the money. But if you are interested in military medicine, then it is a good deal. Check out the military medicine forum for more info.

 

[DizzyNT]

just had an army recruiter come talk to our class today (he said program is same basically for amry, navy and air force just ur in the diff branch of military)

program has its pros and cons-
will pay for all school expenses, tuition, books (minus board review prep books), stethoscope, even pay for step 1 and 2 provide reimbursable health insurance if u need it, give u stipend - 1270 a month (which goes up) etc. Put in 20+ years and you can take out retirement (1/2 of base pay for rest of life at 20 + benefits), no malpractice once in military

cons- obviously you're in the military, not a whole lot of obligations once you're in school but once you're out (either doin residency w/ them or not) you have to pay back years they paid for plus some. Military pay is far less than civilian life although no need for malpractice insurance. Never know what's going on in the world in the future and where you might end up. I wouldn't consider this especially because at any time you could be uprooted from your family and be deployed anywhere.

I wouldn't do it but if you like the military lifestyle wouldn't mind being moved around (you're on active duty after residency) would like to graduate without any loans then go for it. Before you do apply know what you're getting yourself into cus you can't really backout once you're in.

 

[8744]

Not to mention you could do it because you are a patriot and would like to serve your country. There is nothing inherently wrong with seriving in the military. If you sign on with the Navy you will definitely do a tour with the Marines. I can't imagine a better job than being the Battalion Surgeon (medical officer, that is) for a hard-charging Marine Infantry Unit.

But if you do it for the money, or even to avoid medical school debt (unless you go to an expensive medical school) you are insane.

 

[idq1i]

One of the biggest cons, in my opinion, is the 85%+ chance of matching with a military residency program. The quality of these programs leaves more to be desired (especially if your boards/grades/letters can get you into a great civilian program)

 

[Ypo.]

After I am done being my med school's bitch and my residency's bitch I hope that I am only my wife's bitch.... not the government's bitch.

!

Cute.

Seriously, OP. Having talked to people who do this scholarship, you have to do it for MORE THAN THE MONEY, otherwise you will be miserable. It takes a certain mindset-ie-being able to unquestionably follow orders out of a sense of duty to your country. Anyone who isn't willing to do this ends up being miserable.

Me, I am patriotic in a Jon Stewart type of way. Therefore, I could never do it. I would be absolutely miserable if I had to treat blownup soldiers in Iraq. Either that or completely brainwashed.

 

[Ypo.]

Not to mention you could do it because you are a patriot and would like to serve your country. There is nothing inherently wrong with seriving in the military. If you sign on with the Navy you will definitely do a tour with the Marines. I can't imagine a better job than being the Battalion Surgeon (medical officer, that is) for a hard-charging Marine Infantry Unit.

There are other, more peaceful ways of serving your country, though.

ALso, while I agree there is nothing inherently wrong with being a medical officer in the military, I do think there is something inherently wrong with killing people. Don't you?

 

[LO281OK]

I do think there is something inherently wrong with killing people. Don't you?

Depends heavily on the stakes. Some naivity is required to say that there is something inherently wrong whenever someone kills someone else. I guess my issue is with your use of the words 'inherent' and 'kill'. Now murder I have a problem with.

 

[Ypo.]

Depends heavily on the stakes. Some naivity is required to say that there is something inherently wrong whenever someone kills someone else. I guess my issue is with your use of the words 'inherent' and 'kill'. Now murder I have a problem with.

Listen, killing may be justified and necessary sometimes, but it is never 'inherently' OK. Call it naive if you like. I call it setting moral boundaries. Its important to know when we're breaking moral codes, all the more important to be aware of it when the situation requires breaking them.

 

[endodoc]

There are other, more peaceful ways of serving your country, though.

ALso, while I agree there is nothing inherently wrong with being a medical officer in the military, I do think there is something inherently wrong with killing people. Don't you?

Are you sure you are not really John Kerry; being wishy washy?

 

[Ypo.]

Are you sure you are not really John Kerry; being wishy washy?

Are you sure you aren't one of Bush's droids?

Seriously, lets not hijack this thread with political discussion. I'm sorry that I seem to have started one. However, if you would care to discuss these points, I would be happy to join you in the lounge.

 

[LO281OK]

Listen, killing may be justified and necessary sometimes, but it is never 'inherently' OK. Call it naive if you like. I call it setting moral boundaries. Its important to know when we're breaking moral codes, all the more important to be aware of it when the situation requires breaking them.

You are not carrying your logic through to its inevitable end. It is precisely because I have moral boundaries (very firm ones) that I cannot say "there is something inherently wrong with killing people." Let's remember that you were the only one to put an absolute on the table. Saying something is inherently wrong portrays that it is wrong in its very nature, no matter the reason or stakes.

Case 1: Someone is trying to hurt/rape/mame/murder someone else. Either time or circumstances dictate that nonviolent solutions are not an option. Clearly killing is justified in this case to prevent the crime being perpetrated.

Case 2: Again, after efforts for nonviolent resolutions have been made... When a class or group of people is being treated in a way that offends human rights including life, liberty, freedom of religion/conscience/speech/assembly/representation and others.

The question I think we may differ on (at the margins) is who gets to decide when killing is not murder. When is it justified? We would probably agree that the situations created by Hitler, Pol Pot, Milosevic and the leaders in the Sudan warrant(ed) killing to stop.

I personally believe that killing, used with discretion based on the particular situation, is justifiable in a legally defined war (define combatants and noncombatants) for the cause of spreading democracy and freedom (i.e. Iraq and ousting Saddam Hussein). I believe it is mortally self-centered for those who are blessed to live under the cloak of freedom and liberty to say that the cost is too great when other's liberty and self-determination are on the line. Should we invade every non-democratic country? Of course not! Is ours the only correct way to prosecute democracy? No!

Hope this doesn't muddy the waters. Again, I was just concerned over the use of the phrase "inherently wrong" in your original statement.

 

[idq1i]

Here's an idea... How about taking political/moral discussions to the Everyone forum?

 

[8744]

There are other, more peaceful ways of serving your country, though.

ALso, while I agree there is nothing inherently wrong with being a medical officer in the military, I do think there is something inherently wrong with killing people. Don't you?

Come on now. Is this going to degenerate into one of those threads where I support the military and the occasional need to ram a JDAM up the rectum of the enemy and then you will get all self-righteous and insist that no one who supports war deserves to be a physician?

Har har. I've been on SDN for too long now not to see which way this thing would go.

 

[8744]

Listen, killing may be justified and necessary sometimes, but it is never 'inherently' OK. Call it naive if you like. I call it setting moral boundaries. Its important to know when we're breaking moral codes, all the more important to be aware of it when the situation requires breaking them.

In the heat of battle is one place where killing is both necessary and justified.

 

[Ypo.]

Come on now. Is this going to degenerate into one of those threads where I support the military and the occasional need to ram a JDAM up the rectum of the enemy and then you will get all self-righteous and insist that no one who supports war deserves to be a physician?

Har har. I've been on SDN for too long now not to see which way this thing would go.

Of course not. I would never be sanctimonious enough to say that you don't deserve to be a doctor because you have conservative/right views. I may not agree with your views, but the field of medicine takes all types. Creationists can be scientists and supporters of the Iraq war can be humanitarians when it comes to their own people (no matter how much of a contradiction this might seem to me).

Its unfortunate that this thread has degenerated into people using it as a soapbox to spout their political opinions. I didn't mean to start a political discussion. I was just trying to point out that there are other ways to serve your country than through the HSPS. I was also trying to say that joining the armed forces requires being able to follow orders that you may not agree with on a deep and personal level. Those are both things to think about before signing up for such a huge commitment.

 

[fun8stuff]

Of course not. I would never be sanctimonious enough to say that you don't deserve to be a doctor because you have conservative/right views. I may not agree with your views, but the field of medicine takes all types. Creationists can be scientists and supporters of the Iraq war can be humanitarians when it comes to their own people (no matter how much of a contradiction this might seem to me).

Its unfortunate that this thread has degenerated into people using it as a soapbox to spout their political opinions. I didn't mean to start a political discussion. I was just trying to point out that there are other ways to serve your country than through the HSPS. I was also trying to say that joining the armed forces requires being able to follow orders that you may not agree with on a deep and personal level. Those are both things to think about before signing up for such a huge commitment.

signing up for armed forces = signing away freedom. You do what they tell you to do until your contract is up, no questions asked. The reason I am going to school is so that I will not have to sign up for the military like others in my family. The greatest majority of people who are in the military and who sign up for the military are not the college educated. My freedom is worth more than the cost of medical school, but I guess you could also argue that the purpose of serving in the military is to protect the freedom of the US. I guess this makes me selfish...

I realize other people have drastically different views. That's cool too.

 

[8744]

...I was also trying to say that joining the armed forces requires being able to follow orders that you may not agree with on a deep and personal level. Those are both things to think about before signing up for such a huge commitment...

In my entire eight-year career as a Marine Infantryman I was never given an order that I disagreed with on a deep personal level. I suppose since we have a volunteer military we self-select for people accept the premise of violence being necessary in a military setting.

You have watched too many movies. The American military is governed by the UCMJ and the Laws of War. You will never get into trouble for disobeying an unlawful order which pretty much covers anything that any decent person would object to. (Shooting civilains, rape, looting, and etc.)

 

[Ypo.]

In my entire eight-year career as a Marine Infantryman I was never given an order that I disagreed with on a deep personal level. .)

How surprising. But thats you, Panda.

I suppose since we have a volunteer military we self-select for people accept the premise of violence being necessary in a military setting.

You have a point, although I have talked to returned soldiers who are totally against killing others and against the war in Iraq. Point being, you may change your mind once you actually have to kill someone else.

You have watched too many movies. The American military is governed by the UCMJ and the Laws of War. You will never get into trouble for disobeying an unlawful order which pretty much covers anything that any decent person would object to. (Shooting civilains, rape, looting, and etc.)

Nah, I don't like war movies. I don't need to shoot someone in order to discover that I would have nightmares for years afterwards. I appreciate the fact that it is necessary at times. But I don't feel that it is morally OK, and I think its important to feel the weight of your decision before (and after) you take the life of another person.

 

[fun8stuff]

In my entire eight-year career as a Marine Infantryman I was never given an order that I disagreed with on a deep personal level. I suppose since we have a volunteer military we self-select for people accept the premise of violence being necessary in a military setting.

You have watched too many movies. The American military is governed by the UCMJ and the Laws of War. You will never get into trouble for disobeying an unlawful order which pretty much covers anything that any decent person would object to. (Shooting civilains, rape, looting, and etc.)

if the military is doing its job correctly then the soldiers will be excited about taking orders. i'm not saying this is true in your case, but having talked to friends i know that the idea of war is highly promoted amongst ranks. i'm not saying this is bad, keeping morale up is important. However, I know that many soliders who have faught in wars suffer or have suffer from post-traumatic stress syndrome.

I still do not want to come off as saying it's crap to go into the military. I am forever grateful for those who do/have. It's just not something for me though.