Any onlineany colleges that you would recommend for doctorate in psych?

[Psychmom123]

Just wondering are there any online colleges that you all would recommend for a doctorate degree in psych?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[erg923]

Just wondering are there any online colleges that you all would recommend for a doctorate degree in psych?

no

 

[singasongofjoy]

This question is asked fairly regularly on this forum. You can probably use the search function to find similar threads and read more detailed responses. But in short, you'll get a resounding chorus of emphatic "nos" as an answer to your question.

 

[Psychmom123]

wow, I'm surprised I know a few Phd levels that came from online college and are doing very well.

Thank you

 

[PsyDr]

If you want the same esteem, you have to do the same work. Everyone had to make sacrifices to get where they are.

The line of questioning where you ask if something is a bad idea, and then argue about why it's not when you don't get the response you wanted.... well that should tell you something.

 

[Psychmom123]

I'm not arguing I was just questioning it, sorry if I came across that way. In my line of work I question everything I don't just go by what others say I gather my information and then i make a decision. I work in the Addictions field for the past 5 years, I love my job as the Director of Utilization Review for a treatment facility and detox and I am considering furthering my education in the psych field.

Thank you for your input.

 

[Psychmom123]

no

Thank you, for your no BS input. I admire that.

 

[Istilldontknow]

Absolutely not. Our entire profession revolves around relationships with others; there is no possible way to learn about said relationship through a computer screen.

 

[psychstudent5]

No.

People in the field do not take online degrees seriously. It is also very difficult to get licensed as a psychologist with an online doctorate. In fact, some states prohibit those with online degrees to even get licensed. Jobs with a good salary (starting pay at $80k+) and good benefits (401k, adequate health benefits, extensive time off, disability insurance, covered malpractice insurance, paying for professional development/CEU, etc.) are far less interested in those with online degrees when they can choose from a large pool of licensed psychologists who went to brick and mortar programs that were APA accredited.

 

[singasongofjoy]

I'm not arguing I was just questioning it, sorry if I came across that way. In my line of work I question everything I don't just go by what others say I gather my information and then i make a decision. I work in the Addictions field for the past 5 years, I love my job as the Director of Utilization Review for a treatment facility and detox and I am considering furthering my education in the psych field.

Thank you for your input.

No worries, no offense taken. My advice is whenever you are looking at a program, look at their outcome data. How many of their graduates are employed within 6 months of graduation? How many of them pass the EPPP? How many match to an accredited internship each year? How many get licensed? What is the average debt load for graduates? If you look at the statistics for online programs (or non-APA accredited programs) and ask those critical questions, you'll likely come to the same conclusion as most people on this forum, which is that they are out to grab your money and run, leaving you high and dry with no job prospects in sight after graduation.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I'm not arguing I was just questioning it, sorry if I came across that way. In my line of work I question everything I don't just go by what others say I gather my information and then i make a decision. I work in the Addictions field for the past 5 years, I love my job as the Director of Utilization Review for a treatment facility and detox and I am considering furthering my education in the psych field.

Thank you for your input.

I have seen a few of the online degree types around the addictions field. I think there are probably several reasons for that. I think it is the opposite of what we need in that field since many of the patients so frequently blur the lines. The history of various types of semi-professional counselors in the field coming from 12 step programs with that being their main qualification is one of the problems. I am a very strong proponent of 12 step groups and have seen them be a great support for individuals in recovery; however, when the line between a community self-help group and a professional program becomes blurred, that creates problems. One problem that many don't always look at is the lower relative compensation and prestige for these jobs that might be partially a result of those blurred lines.

 

[Psychmom123]

I agree and understand. In my case i'm a single mother working 60 hours a week full time, raising my son that is 8 years old so I can't afford the luxury of attending a brick and mortar college right now so I was looking for options as most mothers need the convenience of online because of our schedules. I have a great job and promise of moving into the Clinical Director position, I'm just not sure I want to go that route but you do what you have to do to provide for your family so we will see what the future holds. I've worked very hard for what I have, I was not raised in a wealthy family so i was taught early on to work hard and pursue your dream. I have been in the medical field since i was 16 worked my way up. Went from receptionist, to Medical Billing to Office Manager for psychiatric field for and now i'm in the addictions field. Where there is a will there is a way and never give up.

 

[singasongofjoy]

I agree and understand. In my case i'm a single mother working 60 hours a week full time, raising my son that is 8 years old so I can't afford the luxury of attending a brick and mortar college right now so I was looking for options as most mothers need the convenience of online because of our schedules. I have a great job and promise of moving into the Clinical Director position, I'm just not sure I want to go that route but you do what you have to do to provide for your family so we will see what the future holds. I've worked very hard for what I have, I was not raised in a wealthy family so i was taught early on to work hard and pursue your dream. I have been in the medical field since i was 16 worked my way up. Went from receptionist, to Medical Billing to Office Manager for psychiatric field for and now i'm in the addictions field. Where there is a will there is a way and never give up.

I don't know how common they are, but there is a reputable counseling master's program near me that allows part-time and there have been several mothers complete the program in ~4 years, then can get licensed at the master's level (LPC), which might open up more interesting career options for you if that is waht you are looking for. Not necessarily very lucrative options, but just wanted to throw the idea out there- you didn't really indicate what your ultimate career aspirations are but there are often ppl on this forum aspiring to PhD programs when there are actually other programs that would more effectively and efficiently get them to what they're ultimately saying they want to do.

TL;DR: depending on ultimate career goals, consider reputable part-time master's programs.

 

[singasongofjoy]

.

 

[PsyDr]

I agree and understand. In my case i'm a single mother working 60 hours a week full time, raising my son that is 8 years old so I can't afford the luxury of attending a brick and mortar college right now so I was looking for options as most mothers need the convenience of online because of our schedules. l

What if an employee said, "I don't have the luxury of going to work on a regular schedule because I have a kid."? Would you hire them? Or tell them the job has specific requirements that they need to meet if they want it.

 

[Psychmom123]

What if an employee said, "I don't have the luxury of going to work on a regular schedule because I have a kid."? Would you hire them? Or tell them the job has specific requirements that they need to meet if they want it.

I would hire them, as long as I see they have the qualities and experience or education i'm looking for. I would work out a schedule that works for them as well as the position. I have no problem making necessary accommodations that will work for both parties.

 

[PsyDr]

Don't want to argue, still argues. Fine, you know better. And there's no need to do a forum search because your situation is special.

 

[MCParent]

most mothers need the convenience of online because of our schedules.

I'll be sure to tell the many men and women who I know who have completed their training in regular programs while raising multiple children that they can't do what they are doing/have done.
I was further unaware that the new administration instituted a "The Giver" policy.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

I also wouldn't recommend anyone try to get a computer science degree at an 'offline' program that didn't involve hands-on access to and interaction with computer hardware and software. It makes about as much sense as an 'online' program in clinical psychology.

 

[erg923]

I would hire them, as long as I see they have the qualities and experience or education i'm looking for. I would work out a schedule that works for them as well as the position. I have no problem making necessary accommodations that will work for both parties.

I think the point was one of flawed premise.

Ones current lifestyle does not always give way to "accommodations" such as those you describe.

Certain life events and/or choices become incompatible with certain career choices/aspirations. Want to be a neurosurgeon when you're a single mom? Sure. But you are tasked with accepting the responsibility of making this possible without taking shortcuts that undermine training standards. Otherwise, ones hubris becomes a detriment to a large swath of potential patients and the quality of the larger field or profession.

 

[wtfook]

I agree and understand. In my case i'm a single mother working 60 hours a week full time, raising my son that is 8 years old so I can't afford the luxury of attending a brick and mortar college right now so I was looking for options as most mothers need the convenience of online because of our schedules. I have a great job and promise of moving into the Clinical Director position, I'm just not sure I want to go that route but you do what you have to do to provide for your family so we will see what the future holds. I've worked very hard for what I have, I was not raised in a wealthy family so i was taught early on to work hard and pursue your dream. I have been in the medical field since i was 16 worked my way up. Went from receptionist, to Medical Billing to Office Manager for psychiatric field for and now i'm in the addictions field. Where there is a will there is a way and never give up.

Like Singasongofjoy said earlier, many licensure eligible master's programs in mental health counseling offer "executive" programs or part time programs tailored toward the working professional. I'm not sure where you live but it's likely at least one school that offers a full time program also has a part time option. Where I am in Philadelphia, the are executive programs that allow you to finish in 2 years. It is a painful busy process but it can be done, and if you work in the mental health field already, you can likely use your job as the practicum and internship site. So you kill two birds with one stone. Often times, it is the LPC level clinician who ends up doing clinical director jobs. The psychologists are usually in charge of overall clinic management, assessment, and research. At my clinic, for example, all of our clinical directors are LPCs or LCSWs.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

If getting an LPC or LCSW so you can be administratively 'in charge' and 'over' a bunch of PhD's who are actually well-trained and know what they're doing appeals to you...go for it...I guess.

 

[wtfook]

If getting an LPC or LCSW so you can be administratively 'in charge' and 'over' a bunch of PhD's who are actually well-trained and know what they're doing appeals to you...go for it...I guess.

That's not really how it works? But ok.

I've never been in a clinic where an LPC or LCSW was in charge of psychologists because they were perceived as more knowledgeable or whatever. Generally speaking it's because they're doing the job that the psychologists aren't interested in or are doing a job a psychologist is overqualified for. Usually the psychologist is in charge clinic affairs on a much larger scale and are more occupied with areas of research, assessment, and more large scale administrative matters. Where as clinical directors (at least at places I've worked at) who are LPC or LCSW level are managing the team of master's level therapists in their specific department (IOP, OP, D&A, etc...). Generally my perception has been that the psychologist need not bother themselves with the day-to-day issues of managing how well a therapist is writing their DAP notes and treatment plans and how well someone is managing their caseload.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

The model that you describe (where everyone is clear on what their roles / expectations are and these are in sync with their professional training and qualifications) makes sense and I'm sure that it can work well if everyone gets along well and respects these boundaries. The distinctions between 'clinical supervision' and 'administrative supervision' are not always easily kept, however, especially when you're talking about decisions regarding programmatic (clinic-wide) issues. Sure, if you're an independently licensed doctoral-level psychologist, the LPC or LCSW 'administrative supervisor' is not likely to try to steer the nuts-and-bolts of your case formulation, treatment plans, or diagnostics with your particular clients. But, that same 'administrative supervisor' may mandate a particular form (or series of checklists, or progress note templates) that has no real scientific validity or merit to it because that supervisor is responding to bureaucratic or administrative realities. There are also differences in professional codes of ethics and philosophies of care that can be discipline-specific. It sounds like your clinic setting has figured out a way to make it work, though, and that's admirable and speaks to the professionalism and teamwork of all parties involved.

 

[Psychmom123]

Don't want to argue, still argues. Fine, you know better. And there's no need to do a forum search because your situation is special.

There's no reason to be so rude. Everyone is entitled to voice an opinion. I'm sorry your so uptight and can't be an adult on this forum. I don't know better I'm just asking and sharing . I enjoy learning from seasoned professionals and i can agree to disagree no hard feelings on my end.

 

[wtfook]

The model that you describe (where everyone is clear on what their roles / expectations are and these are in sync with their professional training and qualifications) makes sense and I'm sure that it can work well if everyone gets along well and respects these boundaries. The distinctions between 'clinical supervision' and 'administrative supervision' are not always easily kept, however, especially when you're talking about decisions regarding programmatic (clinic-wide) issues. Sure, if you're an independently licensed doctoral-level psychologist, the LPC or LCSW 'administrative supervisor' is not likely to try to steer the nuts-and-bolts of your case formulation, treatment plans, or diagnostics with your particular clients. But, that same 'administrative supervisor' may mandate a particular form (or series of checklists, or progress note templates) that has no real scientific validity or merit to it because that supervisor is responding to bureaucratic or administrative realities. There are also differences in professional codes of ethics and philosophies of care that can be discipline-specific. It sounds like your clinic setting has figured out a way to make it work, though, and that's admirable and speaks to the professionalism and teamwork of all parties involved.

I agree that different sites have different levels of management and some may be more successful than others. I do feel I have been lucky in that I have done my training and currently work somewhere where things are very well organized and everyone gets along. So I've been able to see how things can and should work vs when things go very wrong. I have heard situations where there is very poor organization and I can imagine how that might blur the lines of who is qualified to do what and to what capacity.

 

[MCParent]

There's no reason to be so rude. Everyone is entitled to voice an opinion. I'm sorry your so uptight and can't be an adult on this forum. I don't know better I'm just asking and sharing . I enjoy learning from seasoned professionals and i can agree to disagree no hard feelings on my end.

For people who have been on the forum for years, it becomes tiresome to have people pop into the forum, then ask a question that has two dozen threads already covering it while not actually asking a question but rather seeking affirmation that the thing they already decided they want to do is the right thing, cannot possibly result in anything going haywire, etc.

 

[deleted106747]

I think the point was one of flawed premise.

Ones current lifestyle does not always give way to "accommodations" such as those you describe.

Certain life events and/or choices become incompatible with certain career choices/aspirations. Want to be a neurosurgeon when you're a single mom? Sure. But you are tasked with accepting the responsibility of making this possible without taking shortcuts that undermine training standards. Otherwise, ones hubris becomes a detriment to a large swath of potential patients and the quality of the larger field or profession.

Yes. This.

I cannot fathom why people think psychology is such a light field that one can do it part time/online/in spare time etc. No one would ever have this expectation for medical school. I cannot help but think that this is another way that psychology has failed to represent itself in terms of its academic rigor and scholarly background, and failed to protect itself from encroachment by anyone who wants to call themselves a clinician & hang a shingle (see the recent Toledo Clinic scandal for a tragic example).

 

[PsyDr]

There's no reason to be so rude. Everyone is entitled to voice an opinion. I'm sorry your so uptight and can't be an adult on this forum. I don't know better I'm just asking and sharing . I enjoy learning from seasoned professionals and i can agree to disagree no hard feelings on my end.

First, I consider it rude to not do a forum search before asking a question. It's in the tos, so I'm not in the outfield here.

Second, you should understand that there are many people on here who have sacrificed time, geographical location, great jobs, setting up a family, having a career, etc to get into this profession. And those are literally examples from the old timers. The psychologists on this board have absolutely done so.

Third, there are many predatory programs out there. All of the online ones are. They promise students all sorts of things which are not supported by any outcome data. Their graduates end up with $150-200k of student debt. Their is current movement towards excluding these programs from participating in internship match, which would prevent licensure. If you looked at the forum, you'd see the training directors literally throw applications from online schools in the trash, because they have options from top programs with publications, etc. The job market is fairly saturated, which means employers like myself receive dozens of applications for one positions. Online degrees, would at best be offered the least amount of money possible. There are reports of sums as little as $30-40k. Imagine what a life with that debt structure looks like.

Fourth, one of the great values of sdn is the transfer of information from people who have experience. Students can tell other students their experience with applying to X. Post docs can explain what's wanted in a new standard like the diversity statement thread. Employers can explain to prospective employees what they are looking for. It's wonderful. I would have been grateful for information when I was a student. I had to sit in a hallway to wait for a professor's time to ask opinions about schools and the process. Even talked a psychoanalyst into sparing me 20minutes, to explain the differences, in the middle of a Tuesday. All of these people's times have value. At a minimum the psychologists here are worth whatever their clinical fee is. So it's pretty rude to not search for something, and the argue about the provided answer because you believe your circumstances are special. Compare that mindset to the student who worried that owning a dog in grad school might distract him/her, and guess who will succeed.

Together, you've not done the basic work of searching for information, have revived an answer from kind people who are literally trying to help you avoid crushing debt and a inept career, but have argued about why their answer is wrong because you believe your circumstances are so different from the struggles of the rest of the people in the field.

 

[Sanman]

A few general comments, a friend of mine from grad school attended a brick and mortar program full-time as a single mother. Another was married and raised three children while finishing her doctorate and a JD. It can be done, especially with funding.

Second, if you feel you can't do it, a quality MSW will likely get you further than any online doctorate.

Third, these friends who are successful from online programs, define successful? Are they in private practice and not starving or Director of training at a prestigious program?what exactly is success to you and what are your goals? Hard to give advice without knowing the details. Can I assume substance abuse treatment is what you are interested in?

 

[CheetahGirl]

@Psychmom123 ~ I admire that you are a single mother, working 60-hours per week in addictions. There are noble challenges in what you do every day, in and of itself. I'm sure we can all agree on that. I also admire your goal of obtaining a doctorate, and having the wherewithal to find SDN and post here for opinions.

wow, I'm surprised I know a few Phd levels that came from online college and are doing very well.

I would ask these folks where they got their degrees, but I echo what Sanman wrote about how you may define their successes. However, I agree with everyone who has advised against an online degree in clinical or counseling psychology for a doctorate. Not so much to deter you, but to speak to the assumption that our degree can be appropriately and adequately achieved via online training. You said you know of others, but I would also inquire about their difficulties with clinical placements, internship match, licensing, and finally how did they end up where they are? As professionals, our field is already saturated and to have it become more saturated with inadequately trained professionals is not something any of us can condone.

Others have mentioned doing a thorough search of the forum about online degrees for (specifically) clinical and counseling PhDs/PsyDs. Many of us here have written much about the cons of traveling down those paths (not very many pros, sorry to say).

It is important to say that none of us are here (or want) to squash your dreams. They are your goals, and you know your personal situation best. But, what we will do (often with zero sugar-coating) is provide a healthy dose of reality. And for online doctorates, you will be starting off already 'behind the eight-ball,' so to speak. I often have insomnia, so have a few moments to offer my perspective...but, again, I share the same sentiments that would discourage the online path, but I am not discouraging you from the path altogether. I have traveled it myself, and the sacrifices were worth the career I have now. I have no regrets. And to love your job is exciting and satisfying, and no one can take your education from you.

When I began my doctoral program in clinical psych at a brick and mortar funded program, I had a preschooler and an infant, along the way I had two more children (so now I have four energetic sweethearts, all under 13 yo). All could not have been possible (for me) without the support of my husband, my family, and external support (emotionally, physically, financially). I sacrificed a lot for my doctoral training/career (leaving one of my babies in my Mom's care...when he was only two weeks only...to attend a mandatory clinic orientation). An online doctoral program would have been very convenient with my extreme family obligations and career aspirations, but is not advisable or adequate in our field.

The clinical training that you receive from a brick and mortar (and there is a debate about for-profit versus funded programs) is not comparable to what an online degree boasts (and I have written clinical examples in previous posts about what the differentiation is between theoretical versus experiential training, especially for clinical/counseling psychology). Online degrees will say that they usher to you externships and clinical placements, and some folks who (coming into training) may assume they have the clinical training under their belts with previous clinical experience, but it is just not so. You live it, breathe it, become the "doctoral professional," and we should expect no less. Also, the APA does not approved online degrees. Without the comprehensive APA-approved structure, your training will automatically be subpar and inadequate, which leads to becoming less competitive for internships, postdocs, state licensing requirements...and eventually an independent practitioner. This is very important because it regulates our training, and sets standards for the minimal requirements. Again, someone mentioned being a physician in comparison to our training: Most would never consider going to a neurosurgeon who trained online for spinal surgery (I don't even think that sort of training is possible, so I'm exaggerating to make a point). So why would you expect or consider any less in our field?

Quickly, I'll give one example. In most comprehensive training programs, you will have coursework, alongside of your clinical placement. Suppose for your second year in training, you're taking courses in dual-diagnoses, child psychotherapy, research design, clinical practica (where you discuss your clinical cases from your externships placement), one-to-one clinical supervision, and working as a teaching assistance (because of your funding support). This is 40-hours/week - during the day. Now, suppose on your child psychology externship placement, you are assigned a 10-year old child, who was exposed to opiates in utero, has been in foster care for several years, now lives with a grandparent, and is doing poorly in school...and the goals for therapy are anger management. Again, all of this (opiate-addicted parent, foster care, socioemotional, ethnic/cultural development of young child, psychotherapy with a young child, assessment of extent of problems, the emotional support of the child, your emotional support, anger management skills training, etc., etc.) becomes someone who you need to address, work with empathically, adjust your existing temperament, modify your understanding, learning how to deal with (not to mention collateral visits/interactions with caregivers), and this child is one of 8 cases in your externship placement. You learn about your on-going cases from concurrent theoretical, clinical, developmental, evidence-based research, experiential, psychopathological perspectives (and I bet others could add more to this point).

How could you address this with online training? I could not imagine how it could be done. Again, because you live, breathe, and become what you need to be. With the person-to-person interactions on daily basis (in a brick & mortar program), you find support, training, knowledge, experience, empathy, skills training, all the things you need to do your job...and it is often 40-60 hours per week that this steep learning curve happens. And again, the example is from one year of training...most programs have 3 years of this intensity, plus an additional fourth clinical and/or research year, followed by internship year (5-years minimum). And this is a clinical child placement example, imagine if you were working with different populations (severe mental illness, adolescents, adults, women's issues, addictions, college counseling centers, health psych, neuropsych, Veterans, etc.). During brick and mortar training, your training is comprehensive so that you discover where you fit best, and I haven't even discussed exposure to different theoretical orientations (and how it may be to decide that you'd like to work psychodynamically one year, and get more training with CBT another year). Again, online programs may boast this, but brick and mortar programs deliver this. The interactions among your doctoral cohort, colleagues, supervisors, and professors are a very important secondary gain/parallel process that enhances your learning; role plays, discussions, sharing biases, insecurities, vicarious experiences, etc...this just cannot be shared via computer (even skype-formats) in online training because the implicit communication is missing (which, by the way, your understanding of implicit communication becomes one of your therapeutic tools).

You can carve out your weeknights and weekends for your personal life and family, but the sacrifices are huge yet manageable (all during training - mainly first 3 years of coursework, I would stay up late and read/write or wake up at 3am to start my day with 4-5 hours of sleep per night). But since my kids were tiny then, they were on a manageable schedule with earlier bedtimes, so I had time to myself to study/work in the late evenings/early mornings.

If you have maintained a working parent schedule (which sounds like you have), then it is possible to achieve this ultimate goal of clinical psych doctorate. Funding is something you want to be competitive for, looking for programs with good-internship match rates, and programs that have their graduates finishing in realistic time frames (5-7 years, indicate that those programs will help you finish quickly, 5 years is considered the gold standard). But again, you would overwhelm yourself if you did not receive adequate training in a comprehensive, reputable (APA-approved) program that was already designed in favor of their candidates successfully completing them within 5-8 years. (I took 6.5 years because I took a year off to focus on my dissertation when I had my fourth child, and I defended my dissertation 4-months after my internship ended.) I knew of one single mom who finished my program, several did have children along the way, but again, external support is necessary because it does take a village.

I hope this helps clarify a little more of why we're jumping up and down with "no" answers to your questions. If this seems like too much (competitiveness, loans/funding, time commitment), MSWs are excellent clinical degrees and they take half the time, and may be more manageable if you need to provide yourself/family support during the training/education.

Whatever your path, best of luck.