any opinions on add'l schools to add?

[jtown]

i hate to add to the threads of "do you think this list fits my scores", but i'm ready to turn in amcas and i can't bring myself to turn it in without considering if i have anything that can be considered a 'safety' school (although i do agree there is no such thing in this game)...

anyway, my stats:
BS Engineering 3.4 gpa
1 yr. grad school (left early; discussed extensively in PS)
grad GPA (biomedical eng. at CWRU) = 4.0
post-bac GPA (3 quarters ochem, 1 mam phys lab, 1 quarter gchem... all part time at ucsd) = 4.0
10VR, 12BS, 14PS, S
~1 year in eng. research labs
~2 years in biomed research labs (no pubs yet)
intercollegiate athletics
26 yo
...
also, i'm not trying to be one of those posters that is looking for sympathy/pick-me-up... i applied last year (albeit late; oct 28) and only got 2 interviews (WL at ucsd)... and i shudder to think that the application game is THAT weighted towards early applicants

any suggestions as to schools to add so i'm not looking at AMCAS part III this time next year? also, if things are looking bad late in the amcas cycle, can more schools be added to the distribution list?

prelim school list
(yes, i know they're all good schools, but ****... i want to go to a good school)

BU
Brown
Columbia P&S
UCLA
Duke
GW
Georgetown
Harvard
USC
Mayo
Northwestern
Oregon
Stanford
UCSD
UCSF
UC Davis
Univ of Chicago
U Penn
Wash U
Yale
Dartmouth
Hopkins

thanks for any assistance

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[BaseballFan]

here's my assistance- Add some schools that are not so highly ranked.

Your thought process is strange. You say that you want to avoid going through the process again next year, but you don't want to apply to schools that aren't "good"?

If you don't want to be going thru the process again, why are you applying to all top-tier schools after getting rejected last year??

Some advice- Most of the schools on your list are not accepting many students who are second-time applicants. Perhaps there is something in your application that is hurting you without you knowing about it.

Many people with higher mcats, gpa, etc. apply to schools that are not so highly ranked. Cover your bases, suck up your pride, and apply early.

Good luck!

 

[jtown]

here's my assistance-
Your thought process is strange. You say that you want to avoid going through the process again next year, but you don't want to apply to schools that aren't "good"?

If you don't want to be going thru the process again, why are you applying to all top-tier schools after getting rejected last year??

Some advice- Most of the schools on your list are not accepting many students who are second-time applicants. Perhaps there is something in your application that is hurting you without you knowing about it.

Many people with higher mcats, gpa, etc. apply to schools that are not so highly ranked. Cover your bases, suck up your pride, and apply early.

Good luck!

thanks for the tips...
i guess my thought process is strange, but i seriously have no clue what makes some applications better than others (other than the obvious things)... you're right about things being (or not being) on my application that could hurt me that i am either looking past or not aware of...
i didnt apply to all of these schools last year (some deadlines had passed and i knew that late applications have lower odds)... and you're also right about the high number of tier1 schools, but after reading all the posts detailing the potential screwiness of the process, i figured i might as well throw my hat in the ring too.

and, honestly, i dont really mean "good" in that there are "bad" schools...
location is an important factor to me and some of that list (mayo, harvard, washU, stanford, NWU, U Penn, Columbia) are obvious stretch schools, but (assuming normal dist.) for every 4.0/39T, there's a 3.3/31P at a school with a 3.65/35R... (yes, i know they'll also have many other things going for them too)

but, like you say,
Add some schools that are not so highly ranked.

and

apply to schools that are not so highly ranked.
...
so, any suggestions?

as for some of those schools that dont look as favorably on 2nd time applicants, do you know which ones?
is that to say that schools don't look favorably on you if you apply to their school twice or anytime it's your second time?

is there a downside (other than money or filling out tons of secondaries) to applying to lots of schools?

again, thanks for the tips...
june 1 is just around the corner, so i was hoping to put this in soon.

 

[AlternateSome1]

I would not assume a normal distribution. I believe a school with a 31 average mcat is more likely to have 2 29's and 2 30's for every 37 than having a 37 and a 25.

Also, early application is very important. October is very late because by the time schools review your application, send secondaries, recieve secondaries, and review your application again, it is late december/january.

Your application looks fairly strong, but it seems to be lacking any volunteering/clinical experience (unless I missed it or you didn't post it). Shadow and get your application in by the end of August at the latest.

~AS1~

 

[LP1CW]

You're also assuming that for every 39T that is asian or white that there is also a 29 or 30 asian or white applicant accepted. Do you remember that post where it showed UCLA's distribution based on race. It showed two aggregates with NonURM's at the top and URM's at the lower end.

You should also add schools that favor non-traditional students like Albany, NYMC. And think about schools that take many Cal students like Vermont. They only fill like half of there class with Vermont and Maine residents, so apply there too. Why not Tufts? You have BU and not Tufts, to me, they're the same school is many respects. Drexel is a school that interviews many Cal applicants too.

You have a strong MCAT, but it's not just the MCAT that will cut it. My score was a point lower, but it wasn't a big deal. Doors didn't fly open, no red carpet or parade for me. My IVY degree didn't seem to do much either. During my interviews we talked about my research and activities. I also applied early. Don't wait. From what I can tell, you seem to be a very strong applicant. Get your damn application out as soon as you can. And toss in a fuller range of schools.

 

[BaylorLion]

You said location is important to you, so I'm not going to mention the two highly-ranked Texas schools. But if you like NYC, I'm surprised you've overlooked Cornell, Einstein, NYU and Mount Sinai. You won't get any argument from me that Columbia is the best, but Cornell is an excellent medical school with great facilities. And Einstein, NYU and Mount Sinai are all excellent schools as well, that may be slightly easier to get into - I say slightly - a large number of people want to study medicine in New York.

Unless you think there will be backlash against your application because you left grad school early, you should also look at Case Western and the Cleveland Clinic - two more excellent programs. You say you want to go to a good school, but you've left off a lot of "good schools" - Case is at least at the level of UC & Northwestern and Cleveland Clinic is pretty neck-and-neck with Mayo. In fact, if you're interested in anything to do with cardiology or heart surgery - Cleveland Clinic is a good place to be.

If you're applying to Duke, then you must feel the South is OK, in which case I suggest also looking at Emory and Vanderbilt. Not so much as safety schools, they won't be any easier to get into than Duke, but the more schools you apply to, the greater chances you stand of getting interviews and at least one acceptance. And both med centers are two of the best in the country.

What state are you from? Even if California, apply to all of the schools within your state. Consider schools like Drexel, Finch, NY Medical College, Albany... as someone said on another thread, an MD is an MD. The degree itself is prestigious, so who cares where you get it from, as long as you get it.

Also, why did you leave grad school? This may be what's hurting your application

 

[patzan]

location is an important factor to me...

If location is important to you, why are you considering LA, NYC, Chicago, St. Louis, along with Podunk, MN, Podunk, VT, etc.?

If you don't want to live somewhere, then forego the praise and honor of going to that school and go where you'll be happy living.

 

[ZappBrannigan]

You can take Brown off. If I'm not mistaken they only have a MD/BA program. You would have had to apply as a high school senior.

 

[jtown]

If location is important to you, why are you considering LA, NYC, Chicago, St. Louis, along with Podunk, MN, Podunk, VT, etc.?
If you don't want to live somewhere, then forego the praise and honor of going to that school and go where you'll be happy living.

yes, you're right... i have been trying to do that, and this was my prelim list of schools... the reasoning behind each school is different..
the NYC school (columbia) is sort of an aberration... i think i will throw in albany and perhaps another NYC, but i'm actually not a huge NYC fan. podunk, VT being dartmouth (NH)? they have a transfer w/ brown after 2 years... and MN for no good reason at all... when you've been awake for a long ass time and living in a bubble as far as med school apps are concerned, you can convince yourself of anything

ZappBrannigan
You can take Brown off. If I'm not mistaken they only have a MD/BA program. You would have had to apply as a high school senior.
really? MSAR shows 41 out of state acceptances with 7.8% total acceptance


BaylonLion
cwru, cleveland clinic... i'm still considering putting case on there too. i doubt there'd be any backlash for leaving because i did it pretty cleanly, and for good reason (left eng. because it was boring and was not humanistic enough for me; not the words i used in the PS, btw)... probably a pride issue that i'll have to come to terms with... as for clinic, my uncle is a higher-up there (with the hospital, not sure if he will be affiliated with the U) and dissuaded me from applying... obviously just his opinion, but i respect it.
and emory, vandy; i dont know why i left either one off... maybe i just figured they were more tough schools added to the list

LP1CW
You're also assuming that for every 39T that is asian or white that there is also a 29 or 30 asian or white applicant accepted. Do you remember that post where it showed UCLA's distribution based on race. It showed two aggregates with NonURM's at the top and URM's at the lower end.

You should also add schools that favor non-traditional students like Albany, NYMC. And think about schools that take many Cal students like Vermont. They only fill like half of there class with Vermont and Maine residents, so apply there too. Why not Tufts? You have BU and not Tufts, to me, they're the same school is many respects. Drexel is a school that interviews many Cal applicants too.
i never saw the thread re: UCLA race distribution... i'd be curious to see it
the schools that favor non-traditional students is good to know, thanks!
not tufts because they're accepted/applied ratio is ridiculously low (granted, so are most schools, but some of the ones i've chosen i'd like more and have higher acceptance rates)... not VT because i just figured out of state is rough (except for private schools; i put OHSU because i'd love to live in portland)
my rejection letter from washington last year said, "...as an out of region candidate, you were not strong enough... however, if you'd like to apply for the MSTP..."
(i forgot to mention here that i got 800Q 800A 630V on my GRE before grad school)

AlternateSome1
Your application looks fairly strong, but it seems to be lacking any volunteering/clinical experience (unless I missed it or you didn't post it). Shadow and get your application in by the end of August at the latest.
that was definitely the shortcoming... i didnt list it in this thread (i put my strongest stuff out there), but i only have a few... i'm doing more now, but that time between late interviews and early applications comes fast when you're working FT... pitiful excuse, though

thanks, all for the tips... i'm really grateful

a not-so-comprehensive list of schools i'll be adding:
cwru (i did promise to kill an old roommate, so maybe it'll be a chance to make good)
albany
(still need to look into)
finch
jefferson
drexel
VT

 

[doc luv]

what about uva? i kno they like older applicants...

 

[rgporter]

BU
Brown
Columbia P&S
UCLA
Duke
GW
Georgetown
Harvard
USC
Mayo
Northwestern
Oregon
Stanford
UCSD
UCSF
UC Davis
Univ of Chicago
U Penn
Wash U
Yale
Dartmouth
Hopkins

thanks for any assistance

The only school not super highly ranked is GW. I'll let you in on an oft overlooked fact. 9000 people apply to GW per year (despite their ranking) only ~32000 people apply to med school per year. That means about 1/4 of all applicants apply to GW, and that is the only "safety school" you applied to. My stats were similar to yours, I had a bit more volunteer work, and none of the schools on your list accepted me. UCSF rejected me outright, Wash U waitlisted me, GW put me on a waitlist for an interview then rejected me. I wasn't foolish enough to waste my money on any of the others.
I have a good friend (his name is Ken and we play Halo together) who had a 36 and a 3.9 from cornell. He stopped applying after three unsuccessful years of applying to 15+ schools, like those in your list and a bunch of UCs. He is normal, outgoing and intelligent person whose only pre-med error was a bunch of bad choices on where to apply. You may make it into one of those schools, but if I had to estimate your chances I'd put it somewhere around 20%.

 

[jtown]

what about uva? i kno they like older applicants...

yeah, i was just looking at them this morning....
it looks like it's pretty tough there as an out of state applicant, though...
48/2866 (OOS matrics/applicants; matrics aren't admits, though, but i still be the numbers are low)

how do you know they like older applicants? anecdotal (i.e. you)?

 

[ZappBrannigan]

Sounds like you can apply to Brown if you're MD/PhD - Here's what their website says:

Brown is different from most medical schools in that the majority of openings for the first-year class are reserved for students who are enrolled in our eight-year continuum leading to both the bachelor's degree and the M.D. degree. This track is referred to as the Program in Liberal Medical Education, or PLME. The remaining places in the class are reserved for students applying to the M.D./Ph.D. Program, those who are currently attending Brown University but who are not enrolled in the eight-year program, and those who are entering through special programs at institutions with which the School of Medicine has a formal linkage (i.e., Early Identification and premedical Postbaccalaureate programs). If you wish to apply to the first-year class at Brown, you must apply through one of these routes. If you are not eligible to apply through these programs, we encourage you to consider the Brown-Dartmouth Program.

 

[jtown]

Sounds like you can apply to Brown if you're MD/PhD - Here's what their website says:

Brown is different from most medical schools in that the majority of openings for the first-year class are reserved for students who are enrolled in our eight-year continuum leading to both the bachelor's degree and the M.D. degree. This track is referred to as the Program in Liberal Medical Education, or PLME. The remaining places in the class are reserved for students applying to the M.D./Ph.D. Program, those who are currently attending Brown University but who are not enrolled in the eight-year program, and those who are entering through special programs at institutions with which the School of Medicine has a formal linkage (i.e., Early Identification and premedical Postbaccalaureate programs). If you wish to apply to the first-year class at Brown, you must apply through one of these routes. If you are not eligible to apply through these programs, we encourage you to consider the Brown-Dartmouth Program.

wow... thanks for the information...
now that i look at the MSAR more thoroughly i see:
(paraphrased)
"Entry into the first year of BMS is possible through several admission routes... PLME, AMCAS, MD/PhD... pre-med post-bac programs at Bryn Mawr, Goucher, Columbia... students enrolled in Early Identification Program
at Providence College, Tougaloo College, Rhode Island College, or the U of RI... and to graduates, students and graduate students of Brown... individuals may apply to the Brown-Dartmouth... through Dartmouth"
sounds like they have a number of their spots already earmarked for certain students

 

[Odaroloc]

Loyola might be a good school for your list. Not top tier, and non-trad friendly

 

[LoneCoyote]

UCI isn't on your list... maybe you don't like the location... I almost did not apply there this year but I was glad I did. I really liked it at the interview and I think it is definitely an underrated UC.

 

[jtown]

UCI isn't on your list... maybe you don't like the location... I almost did not apply there this year but I was glad I did. I really liked it at the interview and I think it is definitely an underrated UC.

i admit, i probably do underrate it... did they admit you? i see (from your sig) that you chose davis, though...

the location definitely isn't the tops on my list (i kind of wish the locus of med schools in CA was in northern cal instead of so cal), but i guess i wasn't sure whether it'd be better to attend a similar school out of state (educationally speaking; obviously the in-state tuition would be nice)...

what about it did you like at the interview?

 

[LoneCoyote]

i admit, i probably do underrate it... did they admit you? i see (from your sig) that you chose davis, though...

the location definitely isn't the tops on my list (i kind of wish the locus of med schools in CA was in northern cal instead of so cal), but i guess i wasn't sure whether it'd be better to attend a similar school out of state (educationally speaking; obviously the in-state tuition would be nice)...

what about it did you like at the interview?

I got put on the alternate list, so probably had a decent chance at getting in if I waited around (they seem to have a lot of waitlist movement). But the more I thought about it, it seemed like Davis was the better fit for me since all of my family and friends are up here and they offered more aid than UCI said I would probably get if I got in there. So I withdrew from the alternate list recently because there was no use in wasting my time and theirs to let me in if I wouldn't go there.

I almost did not apply because of the location. But I was really impressed with them at the interview day and it quickly became one of my top choices. The students seemed really happy and laid-back, the administration seemed very supportive of the students and welcome to their input and feedback, the clinical opportunities seemed better than I had expected with opportunities to work with the underserved at community clinics, and it seemed that if you wanted research there were good opportunities to get to do it. I was also interested in PRIME-LC their new program to work with underserved Latinos and that program impressed me greatly. Overall, it was just a good vibe, and had it been the only UC I had gotten into, I would have gone there over any of the other out-of-state schools I was considering.