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any persian outcast females out there?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by camstah, Apr 30, 2004.

  1. camstah

    camstah running thru dandelions
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    any persian girls who don't hang with persians applying/going to med school? if so where? inquiring minds want to know...i want to know! :laugh:
     
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  3. camstah

    camstah running thru dandelions
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    i guess that's a no...it's nice to know i'm unique :D
     
  4. scooter31

    scooter31 'Ello Guv'nah!
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    My ex is one of your kind.
    Shes super-rad, too. She just got a residency back in Cali. Hope it all works out for you, like it did for her. She did get a bit of backlash for doing the MD thing (dunno why), and being unmarried at 24, and dating a white guy, and not having Persian friends in school, but otherwise, things went well for her.

    :thumbup: If needed, PM me if you have more detailed questions that need answering.
     
  5. sunni

    sunni Senior Member
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    I am! I have like all of two persian friends, actually not really friends, more like the kind i have to be nice to b/c our parents are friends :rolleyes: i suppose it could be worse, like when we lived in cali & had mehmooni w/ about a zillion people, all of whom act like they know you, but you for the life of you can't recall where you saw them before, then it hits you, you don't know them, but grin, smile say baleh, and take the money & run........
    i'm applying this year & i wanna get in a ucsd, but have been told that'll happen when hell freezes over, so i suppose i'm gonna be spending lots of time in the counselor's office picking out schools
     
  6. norouz1383!!!

    norouz1383!!! Member
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    you both say it as though your too good to hang out w/ persians
     
  7. Spitting Camel

    Spitting Camel Anteater for Life!
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    That's not really how it comes across. I am proud to be Arabic, but I don't hang out with any (maybe 1). Maybe the ones they're exposed to are not the kind of people they like to associate with.
     
  8. Pinkertinkle

    Pinkertinkle 2003 Member
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    By Persian, you mean Arabic? Why do people using Persian even though Persia is long gone?
     
  9. Spitting Camel

    Spitting Camel Anteater for Life!
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    Persians are not Arabic. They are Persian, come from the country of Iran, and speak Farsi. The term Persian is a cultural association that is very much still in existence. Those who take on the label of persian often do so in an individual protest against the government of Iran, a government that many do not agree with.

    I should also mention that Arabs are those whose country speaks Arabic as a primary language. Examples include: Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq I will bump a thread that may open up some eyes...
     
  10. norouz1383!!!

    norouz1383!!! Member
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    i'm honestly surprised by your ignorance, and your locations in sf?
     
  11. camstah

    camstah running thru dandelions
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    nope, i don't mean i'm too good to hang with persians.....it just means that most of the girls i meet in l.a. aren't really the kind of people i'd like to hang out with....
    and i also didn't grow up being friends with a lot of persians, so it's carried over into adulthood...i also can't really speak farsi, which just widens the gap even more....and, the guy i'm with is white, which my parents have a REALLY hard time dealing with right now.....but going to ucla exposed me to more persians, and so i have one friend who's persian, but i seem to get along with those people who also are sort of "outcast" a little from their own ethnic cliques......people always say to me that i'm not like a lot of persian girls they meet....and they say it like a compliment, which on the one hand makes me feel bad because i realize a lot of persians here give people a bad image of all persians, and i don't want people thinking persians suck...but on the other hand a lot of persians i've met here do suck, so i like the fact they don't think i'm like them....i don't know, it's a tough issue to deal with for me...it seems like people judge you the second they see you (although 80% of people think i'm hispanic or italian, because i don't look typically persian) and you have to get over this barrier of pre-judgement, so once they get to know you they all eventually say you're not at all like i thought you would be.....
    anyone else dealing with this? i mean, i guess it's hard for anyone caught in between two cultures....it's like where do i fit in exactly? even though my parents are very assimilated, they still have a hard time dealing with things like dating, etc...it was a shock for them to find out that at the age of 25 i had a boyfriend........it's not something i ever discussed with them, or every wanted to.....it's been a big source of stress ever since, but i refuse to feel guilty for being with someone who's not persian, and better yet, who's a cop and doesn't have a college degree (yet).....persians are so big on the college degree thing.........that was the biggest obstacle for them....
    okay, i've rambled.....sorry :)
     
  12. camstah

    camstah running thru dandelions
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    but you'll apply anyway right? seriously, this process is so random...i'd apply :)
    and i know what you mean about people acting like they know you...although they probably do know my parents, and know i'm their daughter, but i have a horrible time remembering all of these people because i don't (or can't) really talk to them...it makes for a blur of faces...but it's nice of them to remember who i am.....
     
  13. OnMyWayThere

    OnMyWayThere OMS-III
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    This is very true... it's sad how some give us a bad image. Because that little few make so much noise, it makes us who lay low look like we're one of them.

    Whatever, that makes no sense. But I feel you. :)
     
  14. Cerberus

    Cerberus Heroic Necromancer
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    Probably because the Persians and Arabs have a bit of a history of killing each other...

    BTW - I think persian women are some of the most beautiful in the world :love: :love: :love:
     
  15. camstah

    camstah running thru dandelions
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    huh? i don't get it...
     
  16. camstah

    camstah running thru dandelions
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    good post....very good post.... :D
     
  17. Cerberus

    Cerberus Heroic Necromancer
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    A lot of my Persian (Iranian) Friends really have it in for the Arabs because they view the Arabs as responsible for the killing of lots of Iranians (in all those bloody wars that I know little about) and they also blame them for the theocracy in Iran.
     
  18. camstah

    camstah running thru dandelions
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    that's funny that she was harrassed for being unmarried at 24...i think my parents would like to see me in my mid-30's before that happens...the dating a white guy thing i know from first hand experience...and not having persian friends, same thing......but i got backlash when i suggested that if i don't get into med school i could do something else....in others words, MD was the only thing acceptable anymore...probaby because i had spent so much time working towards it....
     
  19. seev99

    seev99 Senior Member
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    every persian girl i have ever met has been hot...holla!

    +pity+
     
  20. mellantro

    mellantro Senior Member
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    i'm curious, persian parents to me seem to be a lot more liberal than their arab or south asian muslim counterparts. what do you guys think? is it more out in the open, stuff like dating and premarital sex?

    i don't know any persians, but the one persian girl i knew was really pretty and all the aunties would gush over her... but this girl knew it too... so an ego to boot. yech.
     
  21. camstah

    camstah running thru dandelions
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    well, my parents weren't eager to see me date...like i said, the first they knew about it was not that long ago, and i'm almost 26.....same goes for my cousins and their parents...then again, that part of my family is kurdish, and they're always a bit more protective of the girls....it makes it hard to live in a place where the idea of dating is normal, but then you've either got to hide it from your parents or take **** for it...
    and premarital sex is a huge no-no....
     
  22. st85

    st85 Senior Member
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    Camstah, I know exactly how you feel, I grew up in suburbia virginia, so in other words, every one is white, not that there is anything wrong witht hat, but all the kids I grew up with and became friends with are white. The only Persian kids I associated with are people who's parents were friends with my parents. When I went to college I met a lot more Persians, which was good, but they all exclusively hung out with each other, which I never could understand, I mean, i can understand having a common bond with someone because they speak your language and have the same cultural background as you, but I could never understand why you would limit yourslef to hanging out with people of only one background. But I tried to expose myself to Persian people and culture in college and made Persian friends, but still, I never really hung out with them, I would just say hi and talk to them if I saw them out at a party or something. I do speak Persian, which I am very grateful that my parents taught me how to speak it, and I tried to take classes to learn as much about my history as possible. The girl who I have dated since high school is white though, but my parents don't seem to have a problem with that at all.
     
  23. st85

    st85 Senior Member
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    There is some truth to this, historically, Iranians and Arabs have not got along. You can find passages in famous iranian literature that show disdain for Arabs. Arabs and Persians have fought many wars with each other also.
     
  24. serencavalier

    serencavalier ...waiting...
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    I dont know how much I fit in here, being from Central Asia but speaking Farsi....but my situation is quite similar.
    It seems that "my kind" all fit the stereotypical situation: drive a nice car, live in an apartment, work dead end jobs, and basically limit themselves VERY exclusively to their cultural identities...
    I lived only a few miles from them but went to a mixed school for High school and a very diverse college, so to this day I dont hang out with "my kind". They dont understand why i would be in school for so long and I dont understand why they would rather spend that time working in small businesses.....
    anyways...it seems there are several of us out there...
    Good luck to all of you! :)
     
  25. Spitting Camel

    Spitting Camel Anteater for Life!
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    Actually, it's arab muslims... When my friends take me over to their house, they introduce me and their parents ask me where I'm from. I say Jordan, and their children are quick to interject that I am Christian. Everything is OK after that. This experience has been mostly with Zoroastrian Persians. This distrust and dislike stems from the belief/reality that Islam brutally destroyed a glorious civilization. Although it was a long time ago, people still hold onto it - just like African Americans harbor these feelings about slavery, and Jews about the holocaust (granted the holocaust wasn't that long ago...)

    Persian is not a language. The language of Persians is Farsi.

    Do Zoroastrian and Muslim Persians get along??? Input would be appreciated!
     
  26. scooter31

    scooter31 'Ello Guv'nah!
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    Well, the marriage stuff was more her mother, since she is from a small village, where you marry very young and start popping out babies IMMEDIATELY. So there was problems with her being in her mid-20's, husbandless, and childless, not having a stable network of Persian girlfiends or or men (who could be possible suitors), and devoting all of her time to her studies. They had hoped that medschool was a fad, and that she would come to her senses, and realize that a career in pharmacy or dentistry would be more favorable, as it would give her more time to pursue Persian men and have time to be a mother and wife. So that was the problem, having all of this determination to pursue a goal that kind of pushed her further away from her parents upbringing in rural Iran even more than moving to the US already had. Then add me, a Scottish Catholic, and yeah, she wasnt always highly thought of in her parents circle of friends for some time.

    Either way, best of luck. Eventually, they'll come around. It is difficult to assimilate two cultures and different as America's and Iran's are when you are the trailblazer, so to speak. Its tough for me sometimes, and I only came from the UK.
     
  27. st85

    st85 Senior Member
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    Yeah, much of the resentment of Arabs by Persians comes from the Arab Islamic invasion of Iran, which basically did destroy Zorastrian civilization. I am not too sure about whether Muslim and Zoroastrian Persians get along, I would say yes, just because a lot of Iranian customs and holidays still stem from their Zorastrian heritage even to this day. No rouz for example, the biggest Persian holiday, is basically a Zorastrian holiday. Theres a book called The Iranians, written by Sandra Mackey, that talks a lot about how Zorastrian beliefs still play a huge role in Persian culture.
     
  28. docmemi

    docmemi 1K Member
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    my friend is persian and he always tells me how he hates that persians talk **** all the time. if you tell one of them one thing, the whole world finds out right away.

    what do you guys think about that? do you dis/agree?

    hes afraid to tell them anything about his personal life, because they talk so much. he says old persian women have nothing to do at home.

    also, another q. why do you girls not like to hang out with persian girls? im not saying you should, but what is a typical persian girl like?? that you arent.
     
  29. mellantro

    mellantro Senior Member
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    what % of people in Iran are Zoroastrian? I guess all I knew abotu Iran was that it was pretty dominated by Shi'ite Muslims. Are most Persians in the US Zoroastrian?
     
  30. OnMyWayThere

    OnMyWayThere OMS-III
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    I'd say the majority of Iranians in the US are Jewish or Muslim. Majority of Iranian Jews fled Iran in 1978 after the Islamic Extremists took over.
     
  31. I love Zoroastrians! being from India, I am very familiar with their customs. I actually attended a Zoroastrian school in India :D
     
  32. HoodyHoo

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    where is this, i don't think so.........oh wait, i'm stuck in IOWA, maybe that's why. I need to get out to Cali and actually see some good looking fellow homelander girls. Oh yeah, i'm a persian guy, and I don't hang out with persians here because there really aren't any :mad:
     
  33. HoodyHoo

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    Uh yeah, you surely wouldn't want to tell my mother anything. She talks mad shi*t. And she thinks every girl I date is ugly and unpleasant. Until I marry that persian supermodel, there's no pleasing my mom.
     
  34. docmemi

    docmemi 1K Member
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    i would say that there are large persian populations in ny, texas and cali. in cali, the majority in la are jewish and the majority in the OC are msulim. correct me if im wrong...
     
  35. sunni

    sunni Senior Member
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    I don't think i'm too good to hang out w/ persians, but moving from a place where every third person you meet is persian to somewhere like Tennessee where everyone thinks you're either italian or hispanic, it's a little hard to associate w/ persians. My oldest friend is persian too, & I love her to death, but she is one of those girls who's super sweet to your face, but turns around and bad mouths you to half the world, while her behavior isn't the greatest. The two other girls i know at school, actually have gone so far as to mock me at a party, i think i was talking to this guy one of them was sweating, but that's so highschool. I just feel more comfortable w/ people who are like myself, even if they're not the same ethnicity.
    All persian women are masters of matalak goftan, i know i do it sometimes w/o even intending too,
    And about persian parents being more liberal, i think it's more don't ask don't tell kinda deal, they'd rather fein ignorance w/o putting it all out there.
     
  36. sunni

    sunni Senior Member
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    i think a bunch maybe ba'hai too
     
  37. Biffer

    Biffer The good times doc
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    wow--i'm with you camstah. As a persian male from northeast PA i can relate to issues of not having many persian friends, let alone dating a persian,haha.. I don't have time to write more-just wanted to join the convo.

    by the way--maybe i'll be seeing you at PSU med, that is, if theres a little waitlist shake down.

    take care,
    biffer
     
  38. curlycity

    curlycity Guest

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    Just a shout out to Iowa...I went to high school there. I'm not Persian, but I'm not descended from Norwegians either :) I feel you! The people are nice though. If you can't make it to California, come down to Austin...(insert Austin Powers' "raaar!" sound effect) lots of international beauties here at UT.
     
  39. snowbear

    snowbear Senior Member
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    Hi guys,

    Here's my situation: my father is from Iran and I grew up around my big Persian family. If you saw me you wouldn't know that I was half Persian. My mom is American (some of her family dates back to the Native Amercians, the rest European), and I guess that most of my appearance comes from her side of the family. However, I hear that I look a lot like my dad's mom and on three different occasions random Persian women have approached me and have asked if I am Persian. But all in all, most people say they can't believe I am Persian. My father never taught me Farsi, which I am still kinda bitter about. I keep planning on learning it, hopefully sooner rather than later.

    The thing is, wherever I go I end up seeking out Persian people, which, as you guys can imagine, hasn't been so hard for me to do, seeing as I have lived in the bay area and in LA. I just feel very comfortable around Persian people. I have a strong love for that culture because I have such positive memories of being around my Persian family and friends. The two close Persian friends that I have are really great people (Camstah, you remind me of one of them--you have the same birthday too!), so I guess I have just not made friends with the really gossipy, cliquey Persian girls out there. But believe me, I do know that they are out there. My friends that are Persian have a lot of friends that arn't Persian too.

    Well that's my story.
     
  40. Spitting Camel

    Spitting Camel Anteater for Life!
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    The ba'hai have in some ways had it worse... They are definitely a minority in Iran. They are still persecuted tremendously because of their beliefs, which are a combination of religions including Islam and Christianity. There is one ba'hai girl I know of at my school, and I even think there is a ba'hai club, but not sure of that.

    Iran definitely has many dynamics going on, and an Interesting History that I would love to learn more about.
     
  41. Cat Scratch

    Cat Scratch Member
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    I am not Persian. I am curious as to something someone wrote earlier. She/he said that to many Persian parents its about getting the MD there's no "I'll do something else if this doesn't work out." I have Persian friends who like the idea of being a docotr okay but its not their passion yet they feel that it's absolutely necessary for them to get into med school. Even going to foreign med schools. I know a lot of Indian families feel the same as well as asian families. Please clue an ignorant white dude as to why being a physician is so big in these cultures. It's not like other careers aren't fulfilling or financially rewarding.
     
  42. freaker

    freaker Senior Member
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    This is all very interesting to me. I'm a person from "some state like Tennessee" where we don't exactly have many Persians. But I moved out to California for a while and dated an Armenian girl from Iran.

    Very interesting in that she didn't like calling herself Persian at all. I read up on the history of Armenia as it relates to the Persians, and I kind of guessed why. She pretty much hated Iran, too, but said that she referred to her homeland as Iran.

    Really cool girl. Beautiful. And very strongly Christian. Interesting that her parents didn't seem to care that I was white. She spoke the language, but attended a Presbetyrian church in Cali and attended the Armenian church on holidays.

    Is it typical for Armenians (particularly Iranian Armenians) to care less about dating a non-Armenian? They seemed to like the idea that I would participate in family traditions, learn bits and pieces of the language, and attend services with them, but I never felt like I was unwelcome.

    Hmmm...you all have just given me a little history reading to do.
     
  43. docmemi

    docmemi 1K Member
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    maybe if you are also christian...
     
  44. camstah

    camstah running thru dandelions
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    education is #1 in persian culture...or at least in my family...so becoming something that is well respected in the professional community that requires a lot of time and education, such as becoming an MD or PhD, is the pinnacle of achievement....it's not that my family ever really pushed me to be a doctor, that was my idea from before i was a fetus....i could have been an engineer, a lawyer, etc, anything that requires education beyond college...and, when you think about it, it's really not a bad thing to grow up knowing you're expected to do it, because it really pushes you to achieve more than you may have otherwise....i've noticed most people in graduate school in areas like engineering aren't american....they tend to be from those cultures you mentioned, because education is seen as the way to lift yourself up, and make sure you have a good life....and for these cultures it's the truth...
    anyone else have any thoughts?
     
  45. Stewie

    Stewie Junior Member
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    Salam everyone. I am a 19-year-old iranian ("muslim") male from NY and I have to disagree with camstah's last post, at least with regards to my own family. I was basically expected to become a doctor from the day of my conception. Only medicine. Law is for failures. Business is for failures. Even in middle school when I would ask my parents if I could study something else other than medicine, they would say, "What? So you can become a garbage man?" Needless to say, I studied hard in school, and my father, a physician, gave me three choices for college: Medical Program, Harvard, or a local state school. I ended up matriculating at an 8-year straight medical program at Brown University. My parents were proud of me, having followed through with the "path to success" and securing a spot in medical school. At the time, I didn't think twice about my parents' wishes, as I believed that medicine was my calling. Now, two years later, things couldn't be more different. I have switched my major from biochemistry to Visual Art/Philosophy/New Media Theory. I stopped doing bench work research. I sing. I write. I paint. I am experimenting. I am also questioning my reasons for choosing medicine. I try not to tell my parents these things, and let them believe that I am still the same science nerd (although I still am a science nerd to some extent) as before, so they can continue to live vicariously through my achievements. Just last week, I gave them a phone call.

    "Mom, Dad, I don't want to be a doctor."

    I explained my reasons honestly, and told them that there are many other ways in which I can help the world. Medicine is not the only path.

    For the next 5 days, my mother was in severe depression. She stopped going to work. She stayed in bed crying everyday. My father called me daily to tell me to lie to her about my life goals. He told me that I was ruining our family.

    How could this be the case? Medicine is not the only road to "success" (whatever that means), and financial stability can be attained through numerous professional paths. Why do persian parents push so hard for medicine?

    This is why I think that education is not the #1 priority for persian parents. Education does not always bring wealth, nor does it secure pride for your family. Persians live for the "mardom" (the people); they do not live for themselves. They develop a sense of self-worth based on how the community views them, and a PhD in art history won't get you respect in the persian world. Medicine is their standard of success, and this is what pleases the mardom.

    But why not business? or law? Yes, they are somewhat reputable (to the iranian community), but it is not the king of professions, the zenith of education, the ticket to heaven - it is not medicine.

    I come from a circle or very rich iranian doctors, all of whom live in their museum-like houses on Long Island with apartments in manhattan. The men bring in the millions while their trophy wives spend it all on furs and spa visits. This is the superficial and un-intellectual (and un-altruistic!) world in which I live. Escape was vital. But escape shames your family.
    Example.

    Daughter #1 - Smart girl. went to columbia. didn't go to med school and instead went to work at a pharmaceutical company. she now makes more money than all the young doctors who have graduated in the past decade.
    result: A failure. Why? Because she's not a doctor.

    Son #1 - Smart boy. went to yale. studies art history and philosophy. founded a homeless shelter at yale. wants to be an activist.
    result: A failure. Why? Because he's not a doctor.

    you get the idea. These are all educated people who have gone ivy league schools and will likely be at the top of whichever field they end up choosing, but in the eyes of my iranian circle, they have failed.

    I feel very lost at this point in my life. I simply don't understand their mentality. They say they want the best for me, but how could they be happy if I hate my job? They say i'm young and don't understand. I have to reach-my-senses and become a doctor, they say. But what if I am miserable with my life? They respond (of course, in farsi): what is your fixation with happiness? You are spoiled!

    But who is the spoiled one here?
    Qui khotkhah hast?
     
  46. Shangal

    Shangal Senior Member
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    Stewie, man finally a person I can relate to. By the way I am arab. My only advice is don't fight it. Just go with the flow. And screw happiness, that's only for people who secretly envy you!
     
  47. docmemi

    docmemi 1K Member
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    i know quite a few persians. if it werent for them living for others, the mardom, then they wouldnt push themselves and wouldnt be as successful as they are today. basically, they are never just happy with what they have...they always have to have more. thats a good thing if you ask me...they never give up! anyone disagree?
     
  48. mellantro

    mellantro Senior Member
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    im thinking it's b/c doctors are REALLY respected in those countries. in a way that wields POWER. like in the US, right, the patient's rights are at the forefront-- with the patients bill of rights, and all that malpractice/litigation business--some deservedly so, some not so much. but in those countries, i doubt people would ever dare sue or question the doctor's advice.

    a broad sweeping generalization... i know... but thats just how i see it. and thats why i think stewie's parents think law /business is failure

    btw, stewie, its good you are doing your own thing. im not persian so i dunno bout the mardom stuff, but as a south asian, i see the same kind of stuff in the community. man, we just have to live our lives and have a bigger sense of the big picture. for people that claim to be so religious (im speaking as a muslim), it seems like issues of image and money end up trumping sense of self/ satisfaction/ and spiritual happiness.
     
  49. Shangal

    Shangal Senior Member
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    mellantro, I think it's more because of the salary then the prestige. Most immigrants don't know that there is alot of money in law and business so they focus all there energy on convincing their kids that med school is the way to go.
    I agree to that us muslims living here in the US should shift our focus from the mentality of "what will make us rich and successful" to "how can we benefit society with something we enjoy doing".
    And I've never met a persian guy in my life so I can't pass any judgment on how competitive they are. But it seems like most muslims in america have somewhat of a similar upbringing.
     
  50. docmemi

    docmemi 1K Member
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    persian jews are in the same mindset. so it might be a middle eastern thing rather than a muslim thing.
     
  51. OnMyWayThere

    OnMyWayThere OMS-III
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    True. True.
     

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