Any Practicing OD's using Ortho-K frequently?

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Veritas23

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I've been doing some reading into Ortho-K as an alternative for "treatment" of myopia/astigmatism (as opposed to contact lenses or glasses) up to 6 diopters. I'm just curious as to how many practicing OD's here on this board actually prescribe Ortho-K and what they think of it in terms of profitability/practicality.

Thanks in advance.

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I am not an OD but as a resident I had a number of patients who developed corneal ulcers from overnight ortho K use. (I would say 5-6 in three years). When I spoke to the OD about it I tended to get the same answer "I have never had a patient with a problem before". Those patients ended up after that never returning to the original OD because they were upset about getting the ulcer (they ended going to another OD in the town etc..) so I think perception-wise the original doctor didn't think the overnight wear was a problem in general. In one year in the department we had close to 10-15 patients with ulcers from this..In general in the ophthalmology community they are generally frowned upon for that reason.
 
I know some who do, and I did it myself my first two years of optometry school. I think it's a great option for some people but you HAVE to know how to fit the lenses properly in order to prevent any problems (like ulcers) later on. Also helps if the patients clean their lenses the right way, but that's with any contact lenses.
 
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I am not an OD but as a resident I had a number of patients who developed corneal ulcers from overnight ortho K use. (I would say 5-6 in three years). When I spoke to the OD about it I tended to get the same answer "I have never had a patient with a problem before". Those patients ended up after that never returning to the original OD because they were upset about getting the ulcer (they ended going to another OD in the town etc..) so I think perception-wise the original doctor didn't think the overnight wear was a problem in general. In one year in the department we had close to 10-15 patients with ulcers from this..In general in the ophthalmology community they are generally frowned upon for that reason.

I don't fit or care to fit ortho-k lenses, but using the above rationale you would think the "ophthalmology community" might frown on LASIK.
 

lasik has had many failures, complications, poor outcomes, etc, yet ophthalmology finds that acceptable? Thats seems at odds with the concerns thiamed posted regarding ortho-k.
 
I am not an OD but as a resident I had a number of patients who developed corneal ulcers from overnight ortho K use. (I would say 5-6 in three years). When I spoke to the OD about it I tended to get the same answer "I have never had a patient with a problem before". Those patients ended up after that never returning to the original OD because they were upset about getting the ulcer (they ended going to another OD in the town etc..) so I think perception-wise the original doctor didn't think the overnight wear was a problem in general. In one year in the department we had close to 10-15 patients with ulcers from this..In general in the ophthalmology community they are generally frowned upon for that reason.

I guess you can count me among those who's never encountered any serious problems with Ortho-K. With a properly fit set of lenses and a patient that exercises good hygiene with the lenses, there is no reason why ortho-k lenses would be any more risky than any other vision correction modality with the exception of glasses.
 
lasik has had many failures, complications, poor outcomes, etc, yet ophthalmology finds that acceptable? Thats seems at odds with the concerns thiamed posted regarding ortho-k.

Disclaimer: I've never seen ortho-K in action, so I can't really comment on it's success/failure. I also don't perform LASIK or any other laser refractive procedure, for that matter.

I think trying to make a point by comparing the two is sort of odd, however. Yes, they both involve correction of refractive error, but aside from that there really aren't any similarities.
 
Disclaimer: I've never seen ortho-K in action, so I can't really comment on it's success/failure. I also don't perform LASIK or any other laser refractive procedure, for that matter.

I think trying to make a point by comparing the two is sort of odd, however. Yes, they both involve correction of refractive error, but aside from that there really aren't any similarities.

I think the example is just fine. They both involve elective correction of refractive errors. They both have risks and limitations. Yet somehow Lasik gets a free pass? I don't think so.
 
I think the example is just fine. They both involve elective correction of refractive errors. They both have risks and limitations. Yet somehow Lasik gets a free pass? I don't think so.

I think its a fair comparison as well.
An ophth. who doesn't know much about Ortho-K who sees a few patients with Ortho-K related problems would obviously have a negative opinion about it. Much like if an OD is treating a lot of patients with post-lasik complaints. I've known several ODs that really dislike LASIK and seldomly recommend it to patients.

As for me, I tried Ortho-K last year. It all worked well except I would get halos at night and we couldn't seem to correct it. I'd never realized how annoying glare and halo's would be. Its all good though because its totally reversible with ortho-K.

I'm curious about the overall success rate with Ortho-K. Seems like a good option for youngster in middle school to high school age, that and the myopia control studies from ortho-K have seem very promising. As lens designs get better and people become aware of Ortho-K, it may become really popular. Then again it may just phase out altogether
 
Food for thought: No OMD I met had taken the risks of having LASIK surgery. Even the Lasik OMD's themselves that I worked for :)
 
It is a good point. I think both have their risks for sure and definitely there is a strong effect from people seeing the complications of each procedure creating a different viewpoint. I think the difference between Lasik and Ortho-K is that Lasik is a little more controlled..in that a procedure is done and the risks are dependant on variables that are inherent to the patient...dry eye etc..whereas in ortho-K a patient is getting something that can be abused or used at their discretion. Both have risks for sure but letting a child use contact lenses at night to sleep in seems to need more parent monitoring etc... than lasik which is a short controlled procedure. Also, the alternative of wearing contacts during the day seems just as good. Why wear contacts just at night when you can wear it during the day (unless you can't wear contacts during the day because you are a swimmer or work in an anatomy lab)? Not 100% sure why that is if someone can educate me.

P.S I do know several ophthalmologists who have had lasik but I finished training relatively recently...part of the problem is that most residents earn 30-50K and don't have the resources to pay for lasik. Once they are attendings they are usually mid to late 30s so the question is whether it is worth it considering one is going to be presbyopic soon. A lot of corneal fellows have had lasik because it is free. I think the age demographics when lasik came into vogue has to be considered when wondering why MDs didn't get lasik.
 
P.S I do know several ophthalmologists who have had lasik but I finished training relatively recently...part of the problem is that most residents earn 30-50K and don't have the resources to pay for lasik. Once they are attendings they are usually mid to late 30s so the question is whether it is worth it considering one is going to be presbyopic soon. A lot of corneal fellows have had lasik because it is free. I think the age demographics when lasik came into vogue has to be considered when wondering why MDs didn't get lasik.

That's a very good point. I am considered getting LASIK because I have -3.5 OU and no astigmatism, thick enough cornea, I am 22 and we have a 40% discount at suny opt. But at the same time my boss, the retinologist said that it is a small risk but one that would really hamper her work if something did go wrong. Also I went to her friend, a cornea specialist in the same building and she said that "I wouldn't recommend to my patients something that I wouldn't have done myself." So I'm guessing my sample size of OMD's I spoke to is small and that is why they are swaying my consideration of having it done myself.
 
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A corneal specialist who doesn't do lasik or "believe in it" is a little bizarre. All the corneal specialists I know with a refractive error have had it done. Not sure when she finished training or what her story is but sort of like an oculoplastic surgeon saying I don't recommend blepharoplasty because I wouldnt get one myself...a little bizarre. I would question whether she was trained in it or what her practice is. Some ophthalmologists dont do lasik because they don't have enough volume to be skilled in it and schedule it properly.wierd..
 
Yea, she does general ophtho and cataract surgery. Shes a cornea/anterior segment specialist and I don't think she performs refractive surgery or at least not on a regular basis. I dunno she prob has some personal reasons.

I'll decide for myself when I learn more about it in opto school.
 
P.S I do know several ophthalmologists who have had lasik but I finished training relatively recently...part of the problem is that most residents earn 30-50K and don't have the resources to pay for lasik. Once they are attendings they are usually mid to late 30s so the question is whether it is worth it considering one is going to be presbyopic soon. A lot of corneal fellows have had lasik because it is free. I think the age demographics when lasik came into vogue has to be considered when wondering why MDs didn't get lasik.

Damn! They don't give ophthalmology residents free LASIK? That's a cheap program!
 
Traditional lasik will be a thing of the past in the next few years. Intralase (sub bowmans keratomileusis) using femtosecond laser technology to create the flap will replace it. The benefits of Intralase over lasik include less reported severe dry eye, less corneal ectasia (the biomechanical integrity of the cornea is only reduced 5-15%, as compared to lasik - 30%), and a smaller flap diameter.
 
A corneal specialist who doesn't do lasik or "believe in it" is a little bizarre. All the corneal specialists I know with a refractive error have had it done. Not sure when she finished training or what her story is but sort of like an oculoplastic surgeon saying I don't recommend blepharoplasty because I wouldnt get one myself...a little bizarre. I would question whether she was trained in it or what her practice is. Some ophthalmologists dont do lasik because they don't have enough volume to be skilled in it and schedule it properly.wierd..

I agree - most LASIK surgeons I know (I know at least 15 ophthalmologist personally who have had it) have had laser refractive surgery if it is indicated (LASIK or PRK). They must obviously have a refractive error and be a candidate for surgery so saying, "the doctors I work with didn't get it" means nothing.

I do feel it is fair to compare complication rates between soft CLs, RGP lenses, ortho-K, LASIK, and PRK. All are alternatives to glasses. All have some risk... Safety glasses are a nice option if you want no risk.

I view risk profile for the procedures as follows (safest first): Safety glasses < regular glasses < RGP lenses < PRK = IntraLASIK < microkeratome LASIK = lifetime of soft contacts < Ortho K temporary < lifetime of ortho K.

In other words, the highest risk is with a lifetime of of ortho K (however, no great studies). There are decent studies looking at RGP use, soft contact lens use, PRK, and LASIK.

I personally feel ortho K is very cool in principle - however, its popularity will continue to fall even more as the long-term data on excimer based surgery becomes available.
 
IMO, there is no need for LASIK.

Just take a look at this : http://www.lasikcomplications.com/index.htm


http://www.lasikcomplications.com/ectasia.htm
I think a lot of the complications can be avoided if stricter screening protocols are in place. I think as with any surgery there are risks and with a competent protocol and surgeon they can minimized to almost nothing. But I still am 50-50 on LASIK at this point.

Example: A patient came in to see our OMD. The patient could only CF in one eye. The other eye was 20/20. The OMD saw the patient's record and learned that a cataract surgery was performed on the CF eye when the patient saw 20/25! A huge retinal detachment took place and my OMD (retina specialist) had to basically clean up after the botched cataract surgery. The cataract surgeon kept calling the patient and being extremely nice and helpful because he/she did not want to get sued.

When is it normal to perform cataract surgery? When the eye is worse than ~20/40?
 
There are no strict guidelines except when the cataract is affecting the patient's lifestyle. When I did cataract surgery as a resident, I did a case on a guy who was 20/25 but had some glare at night and was an airline pilot for a major airline and felt it was messing him up at night. Alternatively I had patients at the Va who were 20/100 who felt "fine", didnt drive or want to drive, and felt their vision was totally ok. We didn't do surgery on them. Most insurances want to know that the cataract is affecting a patient's daily functions.
 
O I see, thanks for clearing that up for me. Its case-specific.
 
I've been doing some reading into Ortho-K as an alternative for "treatment" of myopia/astigmatism (as opposed to contact lenses or glasses) up to 6 diopters. I'm just curious as to how many practicing OD's here on this board actually prescribe Ortho-K and what they think of it in terms of profitability/practicality.

Thanks in advance.
Veritas23,
It looks like nobody answered your question regarding OrthoK. I prescribe the lenses routinely and it is both practical and profitable, to use your terms. It is generally considered the best method of preventing myopia progression. It doesn't create a stream of ulcers in your practice. Kids make the best patients because they aren't bothered by the glare generally (no night driving), it slows their myopia and it allows them free physical activity during the day without worrying about lenses.
The professional organization that most serious orthokeratologists belong to is the Orthokeratology Academy of America. There are web sites that list orthok doctors.
I find it most puzzling how little attention is paid to orthok in optometry schools. It is a unique optometric field and it actually reduces myopia progression. We are getting better at actually stopping it. I look forward to the day when most parents say to themselves "It's time to take my child to the optometrist to make sure they won't get nearsighted."
It's not an easy field to learn but it is so very rewarding to see the faces of parents and children as they see with their new eyes.
 
I read the comment on "freeing from physical activity without having them worry about lenses". I am not a pediatric ophthalmologist but do kids worry about the lenses when they are in? Is there a high rate of displaced contacts etc? Educate me because I was totally unaware of that. I wore contacts as a kid and never worried about it etc.. and rarely had a displaced lense. Also, Do you have an article showing the data for ortho-k slowing down myopia. I am not familiar with that and would love to see the evidence. If that is the case, there may be some merit for it.
 
It is generally considered the best method of preventing myopia progression.

I, too, find this statement suspect. Please provide a reference. My suspicion is that ortho-K more likely masks myopia progression, rather than slowing it. There have been many attempts to slow or prevent myopia progression, particularly in the Asian population, but nothing has truly panned out. The fact is that the axial length will continue to increase, regardless of whether you wear ortho-K lenses or not. That is the reason for most, at least adolescent, myopia progression. A recent hot topic of study has involved trying to affect the scleral collagen, in order to slow axial growth.
 
I, too, find this statement suspect. Please provide a reference. My suspicion is that ortho-K more likely masks myopia progression, rather than slowing it. There have been many attempts to slow or prevent myopia progression, particularly in the Asian population, but nothing has truly panned out. The fact is that the axial length will continue to increase, regardless of whether you wear ortho-K lenses or not. That is the reason for most, at least adolescent, myopia progression. A recent hot topic of study has involved trying to affect the scleral collagen, in order to slow axial growth.

I'm too lazy to search medline but there are a number of studies out of Asia that show that Ortho-K does have a statistically significant impact on myopia progression in some patients.

It's not like a "praise Jesus" miracle but it does work on some patients, usually those with high exophoria.

I've experienced it myself though I rarely if ever tout myopia progression as a reason to do ortho-k. I usually say that there is SOME limited evidence that ortho-K MAY slow down the rate of myopia progression. I've only had a few cases where it's stopped completely.
 
I read the comment on "freeing from physical activity without having them worry about lenses". I am not a pediatric ophthalmologist but do kids worry about the lenses when they are in? Is there a high rate of displaced contacts etc? Educate me because I was totally unaware of that. I wore contacts as a kid and never worried about it etc.. and rarely had a displaced lense. Also, Do you have an article showing the data for ortho-k slowing down myopia. I am not familiar with that and would love to see the evidence. If that is the case, there may be some merit for it.
Thiaeyemd and Visionary,
Yes, soft and rigid gas permeable lenses are well tolerated by millions. Water sports may be the biggest problem for many while dry eye and allergies reduce comfortable wearing time for others. Neither option slows myopia progression.

The best source of references for methods of myopia prevention that I've seen is the web site http://www.MyopiaPrevention.org It has lots of references with links to the abstracts or full articles. Atropine drops have been proven to be the best method of stopping myopia, but they aren't commonly used due to their side effects.

Methods of creating peripheral myopia (OrthoK is one) are the next best method, somewhere around a 50% slowing in most controlled studies although individual doctors often report much higher numbers, possibly due to customized designs. Lens designs are being worked on to optimize myopia prevention once it was found that standard orthok was having this effect.

Specific types of soft bifocal lenses also create the desired peripheral myopia and all major soft contact lens companies have patents on their version of the technology. Myopia control soft lenses are being marketed in Asia with advertised (unpublished) results of about a 30% slowing of progression. A spectacle lens with the same type of technology (radial refractive gradients) is also being marketed. I expect the companies to start advertising in the US within a year.

My statement that OrthoK was the best option is based on the controlled studies of 50% reduction and the reported 30% for soft lens designs. Some studies for both methods show much higher numbers, so the final story is yet to be told. It may be that short times of exposure to no lens wear in soft lenses is enough to make that option less effective than orthok where the change is always on the cornea. I consider both a reasonable option at the current time, but I think orthok is the standard for now.

I do think that the era of telling children that their myopic correction is going to just get worse each year is rapidly coming to a close and doctors who do not understand the options or offer them to their patients are going to be left behind.

There are many doctors who do not consider myopia progression a problem, unless we talk about higher levels such as a -9.00 where retinal detachments are more significant. Many profess to loving their myopia, especially presbyopes. But I feel that if you can keep a child from becoming a -6.00 and instead go through life as a -1.00 or even better, that is a great gift to offer. It is an offer, not a guarantee. But it is looking more realistic all the time.

In the meantime, send the kids outdoors! Lack of outdoor time, as opposed to too much reading, TV and other "near" tasks, has been found to be a significant risk factor for myopia. In one study, the risk of becoming myopic if the child had two myopic parents was 60%, but that reduced to 20% if the child spent an average of two hours a day outdoors. We don't know if it is the ability to focus on objects far away, Vitamin D, greater depth of focus from smaller pupils, increased dopamine production in the retina due to greater light levels or some other unknown factor. But studies are looking into it.
 
I reviewed the abstracts ( a lot of ARVO abstracts and not many articles). It definitely looks like there can be some merit to it but probably further research should be done before one can say it is "proven" etc...Thanks for the info
 
OrthoKDoc, thanks for the informative post. I'm a pretty open-minded guy, so I don't really have a problem with alternative approaches, like ortho-K, assuming they have good evidence.
 
Holy balls, what a cordial thread. I thought this one had the potential to devolve quickly, but didn't. Well done, everyone.:thumbup:
 
Holy balls, what a cordial thread. I thought this one had the potential to devolve quickly, but didn't. Well done, everyone.:thumbup:

He came with evidence, knowledge, and experience with the procedure. I think that definitely merits respect from whoever was here questioning its practicality and safety for patients.

Thanks for the information OrthoKDoc.

Some additional questions:
- What does Ortho-K usually run?
- I'm an OD -7.50 OS -7.00 myop and I don't think Ortho-K (or LASIK for that matter) corrects myopia past 6 diopters reliably. Would this eliminate Ortho-K as an option for me in the future?

Thanks again!
 
Veritas23,
OrthoK, like Lasik, is variable in price. I tell patients it is roughly half the cost of Lasik. You'll find doctors offering it for about $750 to over $3000. Just like in Lasik, you should tend to question the low-ballers and the higher end prices tend to be for the more complicated procedures. I think you'd find about $1800 is fairly common. There are yearly costs directly related to the procedure, unlike Lasik, so if you factor in enough years, the total costs are greater, although paid out over time.
Your -7.50 is probably not out of the range of an experienced fitter, but you likely would not like the glare and flare produced, which is power and pupil size dependent. I've done a -8.25 that is happy. The rare doc will use something like pilocarpine or Alphagan for the pupils, something Lasik centers will use for the same problem.
The refractive surgery options continue to improve. A possible advantage of OrthoK for you would be to see what surgical options might appear most beneficial to you in the future. OrthoK doesn't permanently change your cornea, so you would be eligible for surgery later.
 
Heh. It is funny. Most of the OMDs I know personally will not have lasik done themselves. This is probably region dependent but I don't know a single one who has had it. We had a CE lecture from a couple of big wig cataract/lasik surgeons a year or so ago from the East Coast. Neither had personally done lasik. One used soft contacts, the other glasses. An OD asked if they were physiologically/anatomically bad candidates. They were not.

I think the Lasik risk profile is high enough that many OMDs won't risk their high incomes for it. I don't blame them. If you dive into the literature Lasik actually has greater than a 1% adverse event rate. In most circumstances the FDA will not approve a drug or procedure with that high of a rate.

As an OD trained in pediatrics and binocular vision I am interested in orthoK and will probably offer it in my practice soon. If I wasn't a -9 I would give it a shot myself. I would love to have a lower Rx myself.
 
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