Any returned Mormon missionaries out there?

[Petek]

I just wanted to see if there were any other RM's out there and see how their missionary experience played out in the application process.

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[geogil]

RM here. I described the mission differently depending on the app. I have one interview so far, so who knows how things will work out. Generally I emphasized the service aspect of my mission, (montreal QC, teaching ESL etc.)
Good luck,
there's a few more LDS folks on SDN
PM me

 

[DenmarkDoctor]

RM here. I described the mission differently depending on the app. I have one interview so far, so who knows how things will work out. Generally I emphasized the service aspect of my mission, (montreal QC, teaching ESL etc.)
Good luck,
there's a few more LDS folks on SDN
PM me

Sorry I am a bit ignorant, but what is a mission exaclty?

 

[geogil]

Mormon (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) males, and females too (to a lesser extent) often serve a two year proselyting mission in their 20's. Most young men leave at 19 years old, though some leave later (I left at 20). The mission consists of a service component, usually teaching ESL, hygiene, working in soup kitchens, etc.. The bulk of the mission is spent proselyting however, often with a lot of door to door contacting. PM me if you have more questions. hope this was informative denmark

 

[DenmarkDoctor]

Mormon (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) males, and females too (to a lesser extent) often serve a two year proselyting mission in their 20's. Most young men leave at 19 years old, though some leave later (I left at 20). The mission consists of a service component, usually teaching ESL, hygiene, working in soup kitchens, etc.. The bulk of the mission is spent proselyting however, often with a lot of door to door contacting. PM me if you have more questions. hope this was informative denmark

Wow, thats quite a commitment and i comend you for doing it. I think this sort of compassion is what makes great doctors!

 

[GoonieDoc]

another RM here... served in Johannesburg, South Africa. I've mentioned it ina few of the essays, but emphasized different parts of it depending on the context of the essay. I'm not sure how it's going to end up influencing my application because I'm a late applicant (just submitting my secondaries and got my MCAT scores back last week)

 

[Steiner]

Wow, thats quite a commitment and i comend you for doing it. I think this sort of compassion is what makes great doctors!

It's not really a choice, you pretty much have to go on a mission if your male. They say it's not required, but every Mormon guy i've ever known went on a mission. It is two years of some serious sacrifices though, and during some prime years too.

 

[OofWillis]

It definitely is a choice to serve a mission or not. I served a mission in Tennessee and listed it on my AMCAS and had a paragraph in my personal statement about it. I've had 5 interviews and each interviewer has asked about my mission. I just think it's important that you let them know that it was a religious mission instead of pure service. If you are applying to the University of Utah, just be sure to have additional leadership and volunteer activities.

 

[xylem29]

The missionaries in Toronto are always proselyting the same kinds of people. It's nice that they get to go on these missions b/c I'm sure it's a huge sacrfice but it's also an adventure and a great learning experience.

But rather than leading by example - you dress up in black suits and learn another language and attempt to "convert" those who may may be unfortunate or poor or unknowledgeable - this irks me to no end.

Anyway, my non-humble opinon is that ESL and community service is great, but proselyting and subversion is annoying and pathetic

 

[Bucky MD]

I think the word you're all looking for is proselytizing.

 

[geogil]

.

 

[ryandote]

It's not really a choice, you pretty much have to go on a mission if your male. They say it's not required, but every Mormon guy i've ever known went on a mission. It is two years of some serious sacrifices though, and during some prime years too.

Interesting post. Funny how "everyone going" is correlated with "required" instead of "chooses to go."

In reality, it is STRONGLY encouraged, but far from required. No priveleges are withheld from those who don't serve missions....those who serve missions just miss out on some amazing opportunities for personal growth.

Philly, PA - Aug 2001-2003 - All essays and personal statements I have written have briefly mentioned the mish as a confirmation that I would like medicine, and as a time of great personal growth. I didn't claim that my mission was the Eureka that told me to be a doctor because it wasnt. I think that most adcoms are fairly familiar with the mormon mission, and are quite wary of people who try to pass it off as humanitarian. Particularly, the University of Utah for obvious reasons. Ex-Missions Presidents on the committee totally bust you if you over-emphasize the service aspect.

That said, I definitely listed it on AMCAS as an extra-curricular and sincerely hope that it comes up in interviews, but for me it was much more of a personal growth thing than a "realization of my divine calling" to practice medicine.

I think I just wrote "personal growth" three times.

 

[ryandote]

The missionaries in Toronto are always proselyting the same kinds of people. It's nice that they get to go on these missions b/c I'm sure it's a huge sacrfice but it's also an adventure and a great learning experience.

But rather than leading by example - you dress up in black suits and learn another language and attempt to "convert" those who may may be unfortunate or poor or unknowledgeable - this irks me to no end.

Anyway, my non-humble opinon is that ESL and community service is great, but proselyting and subversion is annoying and pathetic

I think your irritation might stem from a misunderstanding of WHY we proselytize. Two reasons: 1-We believe we are commanded to share the message of restored gospel. 2-It has been very important in our lives and has made us happy.

Doubtless there are missionaries that feel required, and are afraid they will be ostracized for not serving, or maybe not blessed. In my personal opinion, though, the far and away majority of missionaries are spreading the word because it has been such a great thing for them. And unforunately for xylem, "leading by example" includes actively proselytizing.

If they bother you, turn them down. We're used to it, and it doesn't particularly hurt anybody's feelings!

 

[riceman04]

Is the mormon church still very conservative? Do they still feel minorities (especially african americans) are not children of God?

just curious b/c I dont know

 

[GoodDoctor]

My Mission did not have as great an effect on me as did community volunteering over the past few years. The focus was proselytizing, not community service. Yes, for a couple of hours a week we taught english classes, helped old ladies with garden work, volunteered sorting expired medication donations.

It's nothing like comforting people living with AIDS, working with foster care, mentoring teens in the homeless shelter, etc. I've lived in UT for many years now after my Mission and have personally only met one RM who had phenomenal community service experience (not to say that there aren't more, just that it is not uncommon for humanitarian service to be minimal or perfunctory on a Mission).

My mission made me a bit more responsible and, more importantly, gave me introspective time to sort out personal religious and moral questions. However, I am now positive that I would have grown much more, understood humanity better, and become a better person much faster if I had served a humanitarian mission.

Here's my new radical suggestion. Mormon missionaries could spend the first year of their mission on a full time "humanitarian" mission: comforting the sick, helping the poor, aiding the elderly. The second year could then be spent "proselytizing." The first year would give much greater context and deeper understanding of the message they're trying to teach in the second year.

 

[GoodDoctor]

Is the mormon church still very conservative?

Yes. Absolutely. Utah was the only state in which Bill Clinton got 3rd place after Bush and Perot back in 1992. Salt Lake City proper (the only part of the state < 50% Mormon) is the only part of the state with a Democrat mayor and the 2nd congressional district which covers downtown and university area is the only one with a Democrat congressman. Bush won with the highest percentage in Utah than in any other state in the past two elections. The Kill Gays Constitutional Amendment had the highest passage rate in UT of any state.

Do they still feel minorities (especially african americans) are not children of God?

just curious b/c I dont know

No, they have not felt this way since at least 1978. They would argue that they never felt that minorities were "not children of God" as you put it. They simply did not allow black men to be members of the priesthood. Don't be too hard on Mormons though since, historically, most christian churches had such policies (albeit the Mormons were one of the last to change). In fact, most churches still do not allow woman to be members of the priesthood. So, don't take it out on Mormons specifically; most of Christaindom has the same record on this one.

If you count homosexuals as minorities, then Mormons have been quite hateful toward this group over the past 15 years, sponsoring legislation, referendums, and amendments against gay folk in HI, CA, UT and other states with tithing funds obtained from church members.

 

[solitude]

If you count homosexuals as minorities, then Mormons have been quite hateful toward this group over the past 15 years, sponsoring legislation, referendums, and amendments against gay folk in HI, CA, UT and other states with tithing funds obtained from church members.

Sounds Christ-like

 

[FutureNeuroStud]

I find Mormonism absolutely fascinating. We just studied it in one of my religion classes. I'm a traditional Methodist, so LDS is waaaay out there for me. However, I respect you guys for your dedication to your sect of Christianity. I had some Mormon friends in high school, but never ventured to ask them (in-depth) about their religion. I hope things go well for you as an RM. I think you just need to relate your experience to how it will benefit you as a physician and you'll be fine. Good luck!

 

[OofWillis]

My Mission did not have as great an effect on me as did community volunteering over the past few years. The focus was proselytizing, not community service. Yes, for a couple of hours a week we taught english classes, helped old ladies with garden work, volunteered sorting expired medication donations.

It's nothing like comforting people living with AIDS, working with foster care, mentoring teens in the homeless shelter, etc. I've lived in UT for many years now after my Mission and have personally only met one RM who had phenomenal community service experience (not to say that there aren't more, just that it is not uncommon for humanitarian service to be minimal or perfunctory on a Mission).

My mission made me a bit more responsible and, more importantly, gave me introspective time to sort out personal religious and moral questions. However, I am now positive that I would have grown much more, understood humanity better, and become a better person much faster if I had served a humanitarian mission.

Here's my new radical suggestion. Mormon missionaries could spend the first year of their mission on a full time "humanitarian" mission: comforting the sick, helping the poor, aiding the elderly. The second year could then be spent "proselytizing." The first year would give much greater context and deeper understanding of the message they're trying to teach in the second year.

I think you're missing the point of the mission. The primary goal of the mission wasn't to make you a better person (although, hopefully this occurred during the two years). It was to help others SPIRITUALLY. It was two years that you should have thought very little about yourself. Not to throw stones, but since you're "steadying the ark," your mission was what you made it. Mine was amazing. If the church was trying to prepare missionaries to become doctors, then your suggestion may have some weight, but again, I think you missed the point of those two years.

 

[112258]

I've been waiting for a Mormon to knock on my door just so I can ask him about the whole receiving your planet full of 12 virgins thing (from what I've heard) when you die. Sounds kind of crazy. And I bet the women don't receive multiple guy virgins, either (although not sure if they'd want it anyway )

This is really off topic, and I'm not trying to make this into a religious fight it just popped into my head.

 

[ryandote]

I've been waiting for a Mormon to knock on my door just so I can ask him about the whole receiving your planet full of 12 virgins thing (from what I've heard) when you die. Sounds kind of crazy. And I bet the women don't receive multiple guy virgins, either (although not sure if they'd want it anyway )

This is really off topic, and I'm not trying to make this into a religious fight it just popped into my head.

That's the kind of stuff that's fun to write home about, when we knock on people's doors and people ask those questions! No offense intended, whatsoever, and I'm glad that you point that out as hearsay. Completely untrue. By all means, when any missionaries knock on your door, ask them any crazy question you can think of. It will give you a chance to hear about the LDS church from an official representative, and it will give them a good story.

 

[Petek]

Well that is a new one... a planet full of 12 virgins. Have you heard that mormons have horns? It's actually funny how people actually believe these things. Try www.lds.org

Anyone else out there that served a mission?

 

[ryandote]

Well that is a new one... a planet full of 12 virgins. Have you heard that mormons have horns? It's actually funny how people actually believe these things. Try www.lds.org

Anyone else out there that served a mission?

Where are you Petek? Where/when did you serve?

 

[112258]

This is really off topic, and I'm not trying to make this into a religious fight it just popped into my head.

That's the kind of stuff that's fun to write home about, when we knock on people's doors and people ask those questions! No offense intended, whatsoever, and I'm glad that you point that out as hearsay. Completely untrue. By all means, when any missionaries knock on your door, ask them any crazy question you can think of. It will give you a chance to hear about the LDS church from an official representative, and it will give them a good story.[/QUOTE]


Yeah that is my point, cuz I had heard it and I don't like to be ignorant! So thanks for enlightening me I like asking questions about other people's religions because I am Catholic, my last bf was Protestant, and my current bf was raised a JW. It is interesting to debate stuff.

 

[Llenroc]

Is it true that they have a secret Mormon hookup? I heard that if you get stuck with a flat tire on the side of the road, or you're in a new city and don't have a place to stay, you can dial a Mormon hotline and local Mormon family will come and get you and arrange for you to stay with them that night.

 

[mardok]

As far as missions affecting admission to medical school I have no idea. I was asked about it at UVA, I don't really know if the interviewer was all that interested. However at EVMS they didn't even allude to it.
I served a mission in Novosibirsk, Russia--cold and beautiful. It has added so much to my life, that I doubt I could have done on my own in two years. Additionally, those that were converted were by no means duped or coerced. I am very happy that I went.
I would reccommend being forthright about the religious nature of the mission and diversifying your extracurriculars so that it shows that your sphere of interest extends past the LDS church. Good luck everyone.

 

[mardok]

Is it true that they have a secret Mormon hookup? I heard that if you get stuck with a flat tire on the side of the road, or you're in a new city and don't have a place to stay, you can dial a Mormon hotline and local Mormon family will come and get you and arrange for you to stay with them that night.

No, although it is a strong interconnected social network. If you were destitue, you could call the bishop in a town to find some help with moving or other things of that nature. In general, there is also a substantial church sponsored social wlefare service that extends beyond membership in the LDS church.

 

[psipsina]

I'm really open to talking to people about their personal spiritual experience, and so I always try to be nice to the people who come door to door in my 'hood . . . but I've found none of them really want to have a dialogue with me and they don't seem to respect my personal spiritual experience at all. I'm a buddhist and would love to discuss religion with them, but they see their way as the only spritual truth and never want to hear about my spiritual beliefs like I am interested in theirs. Anyways, this has really turned me off to them and its difficult for me not to be rude when they knock on my door because of this, . . . anyways I don't know if this is how missionaries from other areas behave, but I think your missions would be much more successful if you went out there with the intention of having 2 sided discussions in which maybe both members can gain spiritual knowledge, instead of with the intention of converting others to your supreme spiritual truth . . . cause when I'm confronted with that attitude I personally become unreceptive to the ideas being presented. Anywho, thats my 2cents about door to door religion spreading.

 

[Petek]

Hey I served in Puerto Rico and the US virgin islands. Not a bad place to be assigned if you ask me.

All missionaries are different, some are more open to discussion then others. The general purpose of missionaries is not to get into intense religious discussions. They seek people who open to being taught.

Anyway, I put a lot about my mission in my personal statement because it was while I was on my mission the I decided to be a bilingual doctor. I was just wondering how the admissions comittiees looked upon missions.

 

[Wannabemed]

You guys need to watch Orgazmo....especially the mormons.

 

[ryandote]

You guys need to watch Orgazmo....especially the mormons.

Good one. I hope that's a joke.

 

[GoodDoctor]

I think you're missing the point of the mission. The primary goal of the mission wasn't to make you a better person (although, hopefully this occurred during the two years). It was to help others SPIRITUALLY. It was two years that you should have thought very little about yourself.

If making yourself a better person isn't the primary goal of the mission, it's definitely a photo-finish second place. I would argue that both goals are equally emphasized. Didn't you guys get the speeches that went: "bring but one soul unto me... who is that one soul... why, it's you Elder." Most parents have this as their primary motivation for sending thier children off on a mission: a more mature, responsible child who returns stronger in his faith. If you don't convert one person, noone ever thinks that it was a failure because you (hopefully) grew so much as a person. I'm saying that you would grow even more as a person doing some time on a classic christian humanitarian mission.

The point I was trying to make in my previous post is that time spent on a standard Christian humanitarian mission would give a 19 yo better perspective on the meaning of the gospel and would thus make him better able to share it. This might help in answering another question I was asked constantly by older people: why they should take a 19 yo kid seriosly? What could a 19 yo know about life, about humanity, about raising kids, about anything of substance? A 20 yo kid who just spent a year comforting the sick, feeding the poor, aiding the elderly, would likely have a richer understanding of and more mature perspective on the meaning of the teachings of Jesus.

Not to throw stones, but since you're "steadying the ark," your mission was what you made it. Mine was amazing. If the church was trying to prepare missionaries to become doctors, then your suggestion may have some weight, but again, I think you missed the point of those two years.

I think the mission's emphasis on proselytizing misses the primary point of the gospel. People always asked me why I was trying to convert people rather than out living the teachings. From an outsider's view it appears to be much like a pyramid scheme. The more people you bring in under you, the bigger your reward. I do think they have a point. Every week in church there are more talks and lessons given on the joy of sharing the gospel than are given on the joy of helping those mentioned in the beattitudes. From an organizational perspective, there is more structural support to help church members to share the gospel than there is to help church members to volunteer at, for example, the homeless shelter. Here, again, I think the mormon church is missing the point of the gospel.

I never said my mission wasn't amazing. Up until about 3 yrs ago, it was the best two years of my life. Over 10 years removed from it, and with some truly meaningful humanitarian work under my belt, I now look back on it and think how much more the mission would have changed me and how much more effective I would have been with classic missionary work under my belt.

Med schools make us do volunteer work, I presume, to make us better people. Doing more volunteer work on a mormon mission would, I assume, also make us better people.

 

[GoodDoctor]

I've been waiting for a Mormon to knock on my door just so I can ask him about the whole receiving your planet full of 12 virgins thing (from what I've heard) when you die. Sounds kind of crazy. And I bet the women don't receive multiple guy virgins, either (although not sure if they'd want it anyway )

This is really off topic, and I'm not trying to make this into a religious fight it just popped into my head.

That's funny.

Speaking of virgins and religion, I've never understood the muslim terrorists' fascination with getting 72 virgins as their eternal reward. It's like getting flowers or a box of chocolates. A nice idea at first, but they're all gone after a few days. Seems to be a short-sighted (if not sexist) view of the afterlife.

 

[GoodDoctor]

I would reccommend being forthright about the religious nature of the mission and diversifying your extracurriculars so that it shows that your sphere of interest extends past the LDS church. Good luck everyone.

Good points.

The Dean of Admissions at the UofU explained that ADCOMS everywhere know what an LDS Mission is due to all the UofU, BYU, Weber State, etc. applicants out of state. So, you should not try to over emphasize the humanitarian aspect of it. You can claim ~4 hr/wk of "community service" over a 2 year period. The rest is "leadership" time.

Since some people may not be fond of religion and/or mormons, I would not place special emphasis on the religious aspect. Even if you didn't want to mention the mission, you would have to on secondaries that want you to explain any time gaps in your education.

The mission is definitely an overall positive. I have it in my EC's and include it as explanation of part of my time out of school. In the past, I've included it on resumes, depending on the job. It's always been a positive in job interviews. You learn valuable job skills: speaking/communication/presentation skills, sales skills (goal setting, committments, closing the deal), time management, etc. Also, a mission gives the impression that you are responsible and trustworthy.

 

[Vvandenn]

 

[Steiner]

How can, over seven "lessons", someone learn enough about LDS to make a life altering decision about their religion? Those must be long lessons.

 

[geogil]

How can, over seven "lessons", someone learn enough about LDS to make a life altering decision about their religion? Those must be long lessons.

Try it and see

 

[LittleriRich]

Yes. Absolutely. Utah was the only state in which Bill Clinton got 3rd place after Bush and Perot back in 1992. Salt Lake City proper (the only part of the state < 50% Mormon) is the only part of the state with a Democrat mayor and the 2nd congressional district which covers downtown and university area is the only one with a Democrat congressman. Bush won with the highest percentage in Utah than in any other state in the past two elections. The Kill Gays Constitutional Amendment had the highest passage rate in UT of any state.


No, they have not felt this way since at least 1978. They would argue that they never felt that minorities were "not children of God" as you put it. They simply did not allow black men to be members of the priesthood. Don't be too hard on Mormons though since, historically, most christian churches had such policies (albeit the Mormons were one of the last to change). In fact, most churches still do not allow woman to be members of the priesthood. So, don't take it out on Mormons specifically; most of Christaindom has the same record on this one.

If you count homosexuals as minorities, then Mormons have been quite hateful toward this group over the past 15 years, sponsoring legislation, referendums, and amendments against gay folk in HI, CA, UT and other states with tithing funds obtained from church members.

I would say the church is trying to protect marriage which we feel is sacred and shouldn't be defiled with something they interpret as sin.

 

[solitude]

I would say the church is trying to protect marriage which we feel is sacred and shouldn't be defiled with something they interpret as sin.

Just like they were trying to protect the church from being defiled by black priesthood members up until 30years ago. Give me a break. It boils down to homophobia and a stubborn belief that the church is never wrong, it just changes its hateful practices when there is enough political pressure that God intervenes.

 

[psipsina]

I would say the church is trying to protect marriage which we feel is sacred and shouldn't be defiled with something they interpret as sin.

Its one thing for your church to dissaprove and therefore not perform any gay marriages, thats fine . .. the issue is trying to impose you're church's spiritual belief system on the rest of america who are practicing their own brand of spirituality and have every right to do so. I may disagree with you're churches stance on this issue, but within your church y'all have the right to exclude whomever you please from your definition of marriage, its when you try to impose your church on the rest of the world and our beliefs that we hold just as dear as you hold yours that your church's stance is no longer acceptable.

 

[patch28]

How can, over seven "lessons", someone learn enough about LDS to make a life altering decision about their religion? Those must be long lessons.

Try it and see

Don't let them tempt you into trying it, man. Delusion can be a powerful thing.

 

[ryandote]

How about a voluntary boycott of of this thread starting with this post? Nothing really productive is being discussed anymore....

 

[jstuds_66]

If you count homosexuals as minorities, then Mormons have been quite hateful toward this group over the past 15 years, sponsoring legislation, referendums, and amendments against gay folk in HI, CA, UT and other states with tithing funds obtained from church members.

Dude you have some wacked ideas!!! I don't think that Mormons have been hateful at all. Te church supports legislation that protects one of the church's core beliefs. What "other states with tithing funds obtained from church members" are you talking about? The church has members in all 50 states that pay tithing. I'm not trying to get high and mighty, but you are openly defaming the church's name. Your posts in this forum are for the most part off base and ignorant.

 

[jstuds_66]

Its one thing for your church to dissaprove and therefore not perform any gay marriages, thats fine . .. the issue is trying to impose you're church's spiritual belief system on the rest of america who are practicing their own brand of spirituality and have every right to do so. I may disagree with you're churches stance on this issue, but within your church y'all have the right to exclude whomever you please from your definition of marriage, its when you try to impose your church on the rest of the world and our beliefs that we hold just as dear as you hold yours that your church's stance is no longer acceptable.

Don't you vote for what you believe in? Don't you support laws that you think are right? And candidates who will represent your views? Don't you vote for laws that coincide with what you think? Why can't mormons? They can't impose anything on anybody without a majority thinking the same way.

 

[GoodDoctor]

Dude you have some wacked ideas!!! I don't think that Mormons have been hateful at all. Te church supports legislation that protects one of the church's core beliefs. What "other states with tithing funds obtained from church members" are you talking about? The church has members in all 50 states that pay tithing. I'm not trying to get high and mighty, but you are openly defaming the church's name. Your posts in this forum are for the most part off base and ignorant.

To your pointed question, the LDS Church has provided funds in at least the following states: Hawaii, Alaska, Nevada, California, Montana. They have made official anouncements from the sunday pulpit in every state to encourage church members to vote for these amendments.

To your words of insult, my posts have advocated 1) comforting the sick, feeding the poor, and aiding the elderly as ways to gain greater insight into the teachings of Jesus and 2) not using the power of the govt. to harm other children of God. Perhaps you are "ignorant" of true core christian principles or perhaps you practice a brand of christianity that is for the most part "off base" from the teachings of Jesus. Not to get high and mighty, but you are openly defaming Christ's name.

The mormon church's position against gay marriage is intellectually dishonest. Mormons once practiced polygamy (technically polygyny since only multiple wives were allowed). In 1904 LDS leadership and the UT Senator opposed a constitutional amendment banning plural marriage, yet today they support similar amendments banning gay marriage. Joseph Smith had 24 wives, the younges of which was 16 yo. Brigham Young had 27 wives, the youngest of which was 15 yo (when Brigham was 42 yo). Talk about the original "alternative lifestyle." The church's official position has never been that there was anything wrong with this practice, but that it is no longer practiced because the laws of the land dictated that it stop. From the mormon point of view, they were persecuted and had thier beliefs trampled by other Christians' religious zeal. If any group in America should understand the dangers of allowing people of one religious persuasion to enforce their beliefs on other Americans, the Mormons should understand. In fact, from one of the LDS Scriptures (D&C 134:4 - http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/134/4#4):

We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others; but we do not believe that human law has a right to interfere in prescribing rules of worship to bind the consciences of men, nor dictate forms for public or private devotion; that the civil magistrate should restrain crime, but never control conscience; should punish bguilt, but never suppress the freedom of the soul.

Sorry for the rant, but I don't like being called ignorant by someone who does not remember his own history, read his own scriptures, or practice his own faith. If you were sincere about "protecting marriage" ( rather then protecting individual liberty), the logical first step would be to outlaw divorce. Instead you support laws that harm other people's families and children. A mormon believes in the importance of family. A christian believes that his family is no more important than his neighbor's family.

Now, back to medicine:

How will you treat gay-headed families when you practice medicine? How will you treat a young person going through depression as they try to reconcile thier sexual orientation with thier family disowning them? Will you go against the science in your practice of medicine as you do in your political practices?

 

[tegs15]

"Here's my new radical suggestion. Mormon missionaries could spend the first year of their mission on a full time "humanitarian" mission: comforting the sick, helping the poor, aiding the elderly. The second year could then be spent "proselytizing." The first year would give much greater context and deeper understanding of the message they're trying to teach in the second year."

I think you have lost the understanding of what a mission is for. First off if the main purpose of a mission was to solely gain Christ-like attributes then there is some truth to what you say. Service to others leads to selflessness and can help one gain charity. However, understanding that this life is the time for man to prepare to meet God; do you not think that proselytizing is a more worthwhile goal? Relieving pain and suffering in this world is extremely important so don't misunderstand me, but knowing that this lifetime is minute in the eternal timeline relieving physical or emotional suffering is less important then preparing individuals to "meet their maker" so to speak. It’s analogous to using Versed on a hip reduction. Yes we want to relieve all their pain but it is less important than providing a functional hip joint, so many times severe pain is felt for a brief instant as we work towards something of greater importance.

Just briefly to address your characterization that the mormon church is acting in a hateful manner as they support legislative actions in several states. Firstly up until just recently (early-mid 90's) homosexuality was legally classified as devient behavior and was illegal in most of the United States, so the church is not supporting an agenda that the rest of the country didn't already recognize and have laws to prohibit just a few years ago. (That being said just because the majority adopts an idea doesn't neccessarily make it right). Secondly, in what ways has the church been "hateful"? Have they published/posted ads demonizing those that are homosexual, have they refused to allow homosexuals to attending church meetings? From the pulpit do they verbally comment on individuals who practice that life style? Is it hateful to stand by their beliefs that homosexuality is wrong and a sin?

Personally I look at homosexuality (let the flames begin) as a genetic disorder. Medicine has decided to stipulate that homosexuality is 99.5% likely a gene malfunction that predisposes individuals to that orientation. Similarly Time recently published an article describing a U of Wisconsin longterm study of violent tendency amongst 400 boys.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1004083,00.html

They postulated that there was strong evidience to support genetic disorders as a basis for inappropriate violent actions combined with previous abuse and environmental factors. "Genes influence people's susceptibility or resistance to environmental 'pathogens" a researcher said. This is my personal belief that individuals are born with genetic "weaknesses" that can be exacerbated by their environment but still require them to make the choice. The ability to choose still exists even though it might feel impossible.

 

[jackieMD2007]

I think your irritation might stem from a misunderstanding of WHY we proselytize. Two reasons: 1-We believe we are commanded to share the message of restored gospel. 2-It has been very important in our lives and has made us happy.

Doubtless there are missionaries that feel required, and are afraid they will be ostracized for not serving, or maybe not blessed. In my personal opinion, though, the far and away majority of missionaries are spreading the word because it has been such a great thing for them. And unforunately for xylem, "leading by example" includes actively proselytizing.

If they bother you, turn them down. We're used to it, and it doesn't particularly hurt anybody's feelings!

Exactly. When they have come to my house, I invite them in and offer them something to eat/drink but make it clear that I was raised Catholic and have no intention of changing. I have had some interesting discussions though. Takes a lot of b-lls to go door-to-door like those guys do.

 

[GoodDoctor]

... in what ways has the church been "hateful"? Have they published/posted ads demonizing those that are homosexual, have they refused to allow homosexuals to attending church meetings? From the pulpit do they verbally comment on individuals who practice that life style? Is it hateful to stand by their beliefs that homosexuality is wrong and a sin?

Yes to all of these. Have you been to church lately? Practicing homosexuals are not accpeted. The first presidency put out a statement a few months ago read from every pulpit encouraging members to contact their Senators to vote for the amendement to destroy gay families. They have put money into ad campaigns and political and judicial orgnizations. You can believe what ever you like, but as soon as you impose your beliefs on others or work to deny civil liberties to your fellow Americans, a dangerous line has been crossed.

I think my use of the word "hateful" has gotten some people excited. I don't think that mormon church officials or members necessarily have "hate" as their goal. The unfortunate result of thier actions, though, cause much pain and suffering to gay families. They may think they are doing this out of kindly spiritual conviction, but from the outside it looks egocentric, unthoughtful, and lacking pragmatism. I'm not sure what the appropriate word is to describe a position that aims to remove health care benefits, social security benefits, auto and home insurance, hospital visitation and medical decisions, inheritance, property tax benefits, veterans discounts, bereavement and sick leave for spouse or child, domestic violence protection, judicial protections, and more among over 1000 benefits given to married couples and their children. Perhaps "hateful" was too strong a word. Pick your own word if you like: maybe "short-sighted", "selfish", "unchristian".

Personally I look at homosexuality (let the flames begin) as a genetic disorder. Medicine has decided to stipulate that homosexuality is 99.5% likely a gene malfunction that predisposes individuals to that orientation.

Fortunately, you do not get to decide what a "disorder" is or what a "gene malfunction" is. We already have several organizations full of scientists, physicians, psychologists, sociologists who make such designations. Just to name a few:

- The American Medical Association
- The American Academy of Pediatrics
- The American Psychiatric Association
- The American Psychological Association
- The American Counseling Association
- The National Association of Social Workers

None of these consider homosexuality to be a "disorder". Sure, your "personal" gut instinct could be right, I suppose, but since it doesn't match the position held by diverse fields within science and health care, and was arrived at through scientific study, you may want to re-examine your opinion in light of tangible evidence and non-dogmatic analysis.

Many laymen "personally" beleive that depression is not an illness. If a doctor held such a belief, would it be appropriate to not treat these patients? The doctor would be going against the entire medical field and mountains of research. You are doing the same in your "personal" belief towards homosexuality. I'm sure you don't subscribe to every mormon position (e.g. that evolution is incorrect), so why must you subscribe to thier position that homosexuals should be denied basic civil liberties?

 

[ryandote]

Exactly. When they have come to my house, I invite them in and offer them something to eat/drink but make it clear that I was raised Catholic and have no intention of changing. I have had some interesting discussions though. Takes a lot of b-lls to go door-to-door like those guys do.

Bless your heart! I was in Salisbury, Maryland, doing service at the YMCA (funny, there were a few people there that didn't think we should be allowed in the building because they thought we weren't christian..) and made one of the best friends I made on my entire mission.

Lowell was the "volunteer director" of the YMCA and supervised all of the volunteers...actually just me and my missionary companion (yes, that's what we call them...a "companion") Lowell invited us over to meet his wife and have dinner one night. Obviously, we spend a majority of our time trying to explain, teach, describe mormonism to people, so that's what we had on our minds.... we were hoping he was interested in learning about the LDS church. Turns out that one of the first things that he told us was that he wasn't ever interested in hearing any of the lessons formally, but if it ever came up we could discuss it. We ate dinner there 5-6 times in the 4 months, and they had a going-away party for us when we were transferred. I still email Lowell and Margot every few months, and they actually flew out for my wedding, knowing full well that they wouldn't be able to see the actual ceremony in the temple.

I don't know how to adequately describe it, but beneath everything, the purpose of a mission is still people loving and appreciating other people, no matter their stance on religion or sexuality. I'd be excited to share something with a friend that has made me happy....but absolutely not at the expense of that person's friendship. Hopefully, they'd be understanding at my excitement to share, and hopefully I'd be respectful if asked not to. Unfortunately, it can be hard to build that relationship with strangers.

Anyway, there's my pitch. I'm always more than happy to answer honest questions about mormonism, and I'm pretty hard to offend on the topic...

 

[ryandote]

The mormon church's position against gay marriage is intellectually dishonest. Mormons once practiced polygamy...

Now, back to medicine:

How will you treat gay-headed families when you practice medicine? How will you treat a young person going through depression as they try to reconcile thier sexual orientation with thier family disowning them? Will you go against the science in your practice of medicine as you do in your political practices?

Interesting post, GoodDoctor, especially because you know the basis behind the practice of polygamy (expertly pointed out as polygyny!) and basis behind the LDS stance on the practice of homosexuality (important distinction between that and same-gender attraction).

A quick fill-in for those that don't know: One of the most basic tenets of LDS doctrine is the belief in a modern prophet who is alive this very moment and speaks in behalf of God. The bottom line for us, is that God's laws are God's laws, and they are for him to explain and enforce. In example, during the time that polygamy/polygyny was practiced in the LDS church, we believe that God had a reason for it. When we were supposed to stop, God had a reason for that, too. I don't completely understand how/when/why God does things like that, just like it is hard to justify some of God's commandments we see in the Old Testament, but I do believe that it is what he wants.

Please note that this post is not at all meant to incite a war, but I think the post about an "intelectually dishonest" position needed a little attention.

However, the last part of GoodDoctor's post was even more important to me: That might be a good litmus test for those of us that are active mormons trying to make a career out of medicine. Will you really love ALL those that we come across? Will your standard of care, or even your opinion at all, be changed because somebody is gay? If you can't answer yes to the first one, and no to the second, maybe you ought to re-evaluate your decision.