any thoughts on THESE programs

[the_wiseguy]

the following is a list of IM programs that i am strongly considering. any comments would be much appreciated:

rush-presbyterian
univ. of illinois college of med.
loloya university program (IL)
st. vincent hospital program (MA)
north shore university/NYU (manhasset, NY)
long island jewish
albert einstein-beth israel (NY)
new york medical college- st.vincent's
st.luke's-roosevelt (NY)
SUNY-stonybrook
ohio state univ.
univ. of arizona
cedars-sinai (CA)
UCSD
UCLA-harbor
george washington
univ. of florida
mount sinai medical center of fla.
emory
LSU
UNLV
UNM

also considering USC and lenox hill (NY) but have gotten neg.feedback on both- anyone have anything positive to say about these two?

while i have good usmle's - 1:235(95) and 2:226(88), i am a canadian so i guess that hurts a bit. if i am missing a great program in that list (that may be willing to take me of course) let me know.

thanks.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Adawaal]

Well, I can comment on the Chicago programs for you.

Rush unquestionably has the all-around best IM program in the city from a clinical standpoint. The faculty are fantastic, and the esprit de corps is among the best I've seen anywhere.

Northwestern is really going down the tubes, thanks in large part to the new PD. Great place if you wanna be lazy and do nothing. Interns don't even write H&Ps (upper level residents must do this). Interns have been known to respond with, "but it's 1 AM!" when paged by the moonlighting fellow to workup an admit on call. By the way, this all predates the new work hour regulations, for those who would try to place blame there.

University of Chicago has a reputation for malignancy in their IM program, though they're trying to turn it around. Lots of very smart faculty, but teaching isn't a strong point in that program.

UIC is near the bottom of the list. The residents there aren't much better than those at Stroger (formerly Cook County Hospital), and the faculty leave much to be desired.

Loyola is out in the west 'burbs and is closer to being a community program than a truly academic one. Recent pushing of the poor folks west has made for a much more diverse patient population than Loyola had a decade ago.

Hope this helps. The above are personal opinions and not attcaks (for those who would start flaming.....)

 

[the_wiseguy]

I am still making refinements to my list. of course my dilemma is that although I have usmle- 1:235 and 2:226; good transcripts; research and good US references (columbia and MD), I am a Canadian IMG which I undoubtedly will hurt. so although i realize my chances of getting into a top-notch are slim i thought i should give it a shot- i will also probably apply to the following:

UTSW
U Penn
BI-Deaconess (Boston)
Brigham's
U Wash

amongst others...anything decent that's not on either of my lists that i have a shot for (even if it is an outside one)?

 

[Renovar]

Originally posted by the_wiseguy
I am still making refinements to my list. of course my dilemma is that although I have usmle- 1:235 and 2:226; good transcripts; research and good US references (columbia and MD), I am a Canadian IMG which I undoubtedly will hurt. so although i realize my chances of getting into a top-notch are slim i thought i should give it a shot- i will also probably apply to the following:

UTSW
U Penn
BI-Deaconess (Boston)
Brigham's
U Wash

amongst others...anything decent that's not on either of my lists that i have a shot for (even if it is an outside one)?

Why not to Columbia and Maryland where you did your clinicals? Those are considered pretty good programs and you obviously have some connections to get your letters.

 

[sanfilippo]

as for chicago programs;

Northwestern: It's definitely a program in transition. After having completed a rotation there, I can say that it would be an excellent place to do a fellowship or research. I don't know how many of their own residents they take as fellows, but I hear it's not that many. However, NWU fellows tend to stay on as faculty. The program has recently changed to a ward-based system with an innovative program co-director (Dr. Diane Wayne, I believe). So, it's probably on the up and up.

UChicago: A ward-based system, smaller, and very academic in every sense of the word. Surely difficult to get into; have no idea about teaching or clinical preparation.

UIC: Does not have a national reputation like NU or UC, but I think it produces clinically solid residents since they have a lot of autonomy. Teaching excellence varies. May change this year since Dr. Zar has taken over for Dr. Lesky and he's a great teacher from what I've heard and due to the incorporation of hospitalists.

Rush: Mostly private, so I don't know how much residents get to do on their own. Yes, I have heard it's a great teaching place for neurology and other disciplines, have yet to hear how it is for IM, though. Residents do seem very HAPPY there, though! The med school is in a financial downfall, but I am sure the hospital will survive. It has assumed many connections with Cook County, which is a place everyone in Chicago should rotate through as a med student and/or resident.

Loyola: Someone at my home institution said it had a history of being malignant. Don't know much else about it.

I am thinking of adding a few IM programs to my list; looking for input for:
U of Virginia
UT-Southwestern
Cleveland Clinic
U of NM or U of AZ

 

[oldandtired]

I know about Rush. If you guys want to be scut puppies for private attendings without autonomy then this may be the place for you!

 

[jashanley]

Originally posted by Adawaal
Well, I can comment on the Chicago programs for you.
UIC is near the bottom of the list. The residents there aren't much better than those at Stroger (formerly Cook County Hospital), and the faculty leave much to be desired.

Did you rotate at UIC or is this hearsay? Our residents for the most part are quite strong and we have a 100% pass rate on the IM boards for the past 2 years. And nearly 100% on the last 3.

And your opinion of Rush is quite inflated from what I hear, but I won't comment further.
furthermore, I seriously doubt NW is going down the tubes.

Before you go and give your opinion on the Chicago programs......you should give some qulaifications to make such blanketed statements about programs.

I am a resident at UIC and for the most part I find the faculty to be quite engaging and interested in educating the residents.
They work as hard as the residents at times and teach regularly.
Dr. Zar has taken over as program director and he is an amazing clinician, and teacher. He is extremely motivated to provide us with a top notch clinical and evidence based education.
The hospital like all others has some shortcomings but I am happy with my program and feel I will be well trained by the end of my residency. The patient volume is more than adequate. The ED census increased from 40K 3 years ago to nearly 60K and the variety of disease is immense. Finally, the autonomy with regards to patient care is second to none. Both hospitals are 100% ward based with no private attendings. For this reason, we put in long hours (but obviously not longer than the 80 hour per week cap) while on the wards. There is still time for reading and leisure.
Overall the fully computerized system makes continuity of patient care much easier and the ability to look up old records, echo/cath/radiology reports and old labs, as well as access the system from home is awesome.
The facilities are improving regularly and there are plans to add another building in the near future, along with a renovation of all the ICU's. The patient floors are undergoing renovation as I type this statement.
The west side VA , our second hospital, is getting a makeover as well with a brand new MICU/CCU and stepdown unit.

So Adawaal, before you mouth off about specific programs. Cite examples and experiences before you cloud the judgement of other students with hearsay, and false and/or biased info.

 

[jawurheemd]

I don't know much about IM programs, because I'm not an IM resident, but I feel the need to remark on the Univ. of Chicago IM program.

Adawaal states: "University of Chicago has a reputation for malignancy in their IM program, though they're trying to turn it around. Lots of very smart faculty, but teaching isn't a strong point in that program."

I'm not sure what this is based on, but I imagine it's hearsay. As I've rotated through some of the IM rotations at U of Chicago, I have found the IM residents very strong. The teaching is excellent -- sometimes, I envy the quality of teaching that they get, and I'm glad that I got to experience some of it. The patients at the hospital are primarily managed by the residents -- so as a result, the workload is a little hefty, but the learning experience of managing your own patients is invaluable. Any IM resident coming out of this program is extremely well prepared at practicing clinical medicine. I've been at hospitals where even though I was the resident taking care of the patient, I didn't learn as much because the patient's private doc would come in write all of the orders and round on the patient on his own -- I don't feel this prepares someone to think on his own, and I don't feel its good for clinical training.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

-James