anyone applying to HHMI-NIH research scholars program (cloisters)?

[chitown82]

hey,

curious to see if anyone else is applying? (or has anyone here completed the program). what kind of background does everyone have? are you applying to any other research programs? ive been really interested in the cloisters program for awhile and i havent been able to find much info on what they are looking for...any help?

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[sandg]

Sorrry I can't answer you questions...I'll be interested in seeing what answers are given. Just curious between which years you are planning on taking off (2-3 or 3-4)?

 

[tchantel21]

I'm also curious to know what exactly it is that they look for and who's applying-- pre-clinical med students are a pretty homogenous group in many respects. I'm not 100% sure that I'll be doing it, but my tentative plan is to take the year off between 3rd and 4th year (currently a second year). Its tentative because my board score is going to factor into whether or not I decide to take the year off vs. participating in a project locally during 3rd and/or fourth year.
As far as background, I participated in neuroscience research as an undergrad and as a 1st year but have not been published. I'd like to participate in a functional neuroimaging study if I do decide to do the program. My school is basically pass/fail but based on mean exam scores I guess I am somewhere around the tail end of the top quarter. I have some "light" extracurricular activity (involved on a regular basis with one club) but nothing major.

 

[chitown82]

hey im a second year so i plan on taking a year off (if i get in) between m2-m3. from what i read on their website, 2/3 students in the program are taking 2-3 off and 1/3 are taking 3-4 off. i figure since i want to be more involved in the basic science aspect of research, id be better off after having completed the pre-clinical classes. plus if i don't get into the program, i can think about re-applying next year to the same program or different programs. as for background, i have done a lot of research in the past but have only been able to get abstracts from the projects so far (total of 6). my projects are still being carried forward to i should have at least two pubs in the next couple years. i talked to one student who is currently in the program and she said she isn't too sure about what they are looking for since everyone is pretty diverse so i just wanted to see if there are any different thoughts from people on sdn.

anyone for sure applying this year?

 

[RxnMan]

...curious to see if anyone else is applying?...

I considerded it, but with uprooting everything again and taking a year off for negligible extra career gain (I've already have tons of research experience), I decided against it. It is a cool program and sounds really posh. They pamper you and throw you in with a bunch of Nobel laureates.

...what kind of background does everyone have?...

Does it matter? Can you change your's? The only way you'll see if you are competitive is to apply.

...ive been really interested in the cloisters program for awhile and i havent been able to find much info on what they are looking for...any help?

Check out their website by Google-ing "HHMI cloisters" and you can find everything there. You should also be able to email/call them for more info.

tchantel21 has it right, though - these PhDs are getting really high-powered lab monkeys for a year. If you disagree, OK, but think - how much work can you get done in one year? Are you really going to be able to get a full paper out, from start to finish? It takes a long time for experiments to pan out (and they don't always do so on the first time, either). If you want to apply, consider that you're probably expected to work like a dog.

 

[ShaggyHair]

you underestimate the career gains. by doing the hhmi-nih program (i have a friend who completed it a few years ago), you virtually guarantee yourself a top 10 residency in the field you desire. the 40 odd students are *highly* sought after by residency programs and this recruitment continues into one's fellowship. the cloister students are some of the most promising physician-scientists that are not md-phds.

regarding publishing, my friend said it is very common to get multiple papers published from the research conducted during that one year.

top the OP, my friend who did the program had a decent amount of research experience (several abstracts, maybe one paper). you look like a good candidate but im sure everyone else who applies is very qualified as well.

 

[RxnMan]

...by doing the hhmi-nih program (i have a friend who completed it a few years ago), you virtually guarantee yourself a top 10 residency in the field you desire. the 40 odd students are *highly* sought after by residency programs and this recruitment continues into one's fellowship...regarding publishing, my friend said it is very common to get multiple papers published from the research conducted during that one year.

OK, give me some data (like career summaries/residencies of recent scholars) and I'll believe you.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

OK, give me some data (like career summaries/residencies of recent scholars) and I'll believe you.

Wow, yeah that's sarcastically optimistic.

 

[Docster]

Does anyone know the difference between this and NIH Clinical Research Training Program? CRTP is also an year-long residential program with similar stipend to the HHMI-NIH Research Scholars program. One applies to CRTP after their second year of med school.

Is one given access to similar quality labs/supervisors or do only the HHMI scholars have the chance to work under an HHMI investigator at the NIH? Is HHMI-NIH more prestigious than NIH CRTP?

I'm still a first year but we have an NIH person from the CRTP coming to our school this week and was just wondering...

 

[ShaggyHair]

OK, give me some data (like career summaries/residencies of recent scholars) and I'll believe you.

since hhmi doesn't publish this information, the only way you can get it is by asking people who are alumni of the program. i did just that and i reported on here what i found out - the vast majority end up in some of the best residency programs in the country. believe it or don't - that's up to you.

 

[chitown82]

Does anyone know the difference between this and NIH Clinical Research Training Program? CRTP is also an year-long residential program with similar stipend to the HHMI-NIH Research Scholars program. One applies to CRTP after their second year of med school.

Is one given access to similar quality labs/supervisors or do only the HHMI scholars have the chance to work under an HHMI investigator at the NIH? Is HHMI-NIH more prestigious than NIH CRTP?

I'm still a first year but we have an NIH person from the CRTP coming to our school this week and was just wondering...

i spoke with a current student in the crtp program in depth and this is what she said. crtp is geared toward clinical research. usually you do the program after having completed a year of rotations (for most schools, after 3rd year). yea, you do get access to the same people as the research scholar students but the focus of the research is different. this doesn't mean however, you are limited to just clinical research. several people engage in more basic science research.

in terms of prestige, the research scholars program is older and more well known so i would think it is a little more prestigious (but not by much). generally, both programs are well respected.

in terms of residency, im pretty sure ShaggyHair is quite accurate (at least my dean agrees). ill ask around however.

 

[RxnMan]

Wow, yeah that's sarcastically optimistic.

Amazing. I ask another poster to back up a very big claim:

...by doing the hhmi-nih program...you virtually guarantee yourself a top 10 residency in the field you desire. the 40 odd students are *highly* sought after by residency programs and this recruitment continues into one's fellowship....

and I get jumped on because I did not believe it at first glance.

...since hhmi doesn't publish this information, the only way you can get it is by asking people who are alumni of the program...

Actually, you piqued my interest and I did my own digging, and here's what I found:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Effect of two Howard Hughes Medical Institute research training programs for medical students on the likelihood of pursuing research careers.

Fang D, Meyer RE.

Division of Biomedical and Health Sciences Research, the Association of American Medical Colleges, Washington, DC, USA.

PURPOSE: To assess the effect of Howard Hughes Medical Institute's (HHMI) two one-year research training programs for medical students on the awardees' research careers. METHOD: Awardees of the HHMI Cloister Program who graduated between 1987 and 1995 and awardees of the HHMI Medical Fellows Program who graduated between 1991 and 1995 were compared with unsuccessful applicants to the programs and MD-PhD students who graduated during the same periods. Logistic regression analyses were conducted to assess research career outcomes while controlling for academic and demographic variables that could affect selection to the programs. RESULTS: Participation in both HHMI programs increased the likelihood of receiving National Institutes of Health postdoctoral support. Participation in the Cloister Program also increased the likelihood of receiving a faculty appointment with research responsibility at a medical school. In addition, awardees of the Medical Fellows Program were not significantly less likely than Medical Scientist Training Program (MSTP) and non-MSTP MD-PhD program participants to receive a National Institutes of Health postdoctoral award, and awardees of the Cloister Program were not significantly less likely than non-MSTP MD-PhD students to receive a faculty appointment with research responsibility. Women and underrepresented minority students were proportionally represented among awardees of the two HHMI programs whereas they were relatively underrepresented in MD-PhD programs. CONCLUSIONS: The one-year intensive research training supported by the HHMI training programs appears to provide an effective imprinting experience on medical students' research careers and to be an attractive strategy for training physician-scientists.

PMID: 14660432 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[sandg]

So, the "how beneficial for my career will this be" point has come up. To play devil's advocate is that the only reason one would consider a position like this? I have a decent amount of research background, but it is mostly in another field (engineering). So I was thinking of doing a year off for research not because I would expect to crank out tons of papers in 1 year but more to see if biomedical research is my cup of tea. In other words, I am interested in ultimately staying in an academic environment, but I do not know how my ideal job would break down among time spent in practice vs. research vs. teaching. It seems like a program like Cloisters would help one figure this sort of issue out in a way the summer between M1 and M2 cannot...a year isn't a lot of time when it comes to research, but it's a lot better than ~8 weeks.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Amazing. I ask another poster to back up a very big claim:

I was agreeing with you, I was referring to the other poster as being nearly sarcastically optimistic about the benefits of HHMI.

 

[RxnMan]

I was agreeing with you, I was referring to the other poster as being nearly sarcastically optimistic about the benefits of HHMI.

Wait, are you saying that the Internets don't convey sarcasm? Unpossible!

 

[chitown82]

so back to the orignial q....who else is applying?

 

[dilated]

what do these programs make their decision as to who to admit based on? for most M2s there really isn't much to go on. is it research in general, research performed in med school or what?

 

[chitown82]

honestly, im not too sure. they want to know undergrad grades, mcat scores, and obviously your med school transcript, research experience, awards/honors, leadership, etc. ive heard the cloister group is pretty diverse when it comes to research experience (its not like everyone has published multiple papers before entering the program) so i think weigh other factors heavily. and then when you are interviewed id imagine they want to make sure you're a normal person (in addition to having you talk about your research, why u wanna be in the program, etc) who can function living with 40 other odd people in the program for a year

 

[TheMightyAngus]

you underestimate the career gains. by doing the hhmi-nih program (i have a friend who completed it a few years ago), you virtually guarantee yourself a top 10 residency in the field you desire. the 40 odd students are *highly* sought after by residency programs and this recruitment continues into one's fellowship. the cloister students are some of the most promising physician-scientists that are not md-phds.

regarding publishing, my friend said it is very common to get multiple papers published from the research conducted during that one year.

top the OP, my friend who did the program had a decent amount of research experience (several abstracts, maybe one paper). you look like a good candidate but im sure everyone else who applies is very qualified as well.

Doing an HHMI only to improve your application for residency is a massive waste because:

A) this isn't what the program is designed for
B) you basically lose a year of your life for the sake of resume padding.

 

[Vytorin77]

Anyone else out there applying for the HHMI Medical Fellows Program? I'm interested in doing a year of research, have a great mentor at my med school, and can't move to the NIH for a year due to family stuff.

Just wondering if anyone had experiences with this program.

 

[KaraKiz]

If you decide to do the program, please note that a number of HHMI students have left a negative impression on the people they worked with at the NIH, which is unfortunate for such a bright group of people. I only say this b/c several of my co-workers have had problems with the attitudes of the HHMI students they worked with (specifically, believing that the rules don't apply to them). They think this is the case b/c the students are told they are "the cream of the crop" once they get here. The only HHMI student I knew personally was probably the biggest DB I have ever known. I personally don't believe this is an accurate reflection of the HHMI students in general, but it can be hard to overlook when you may have had bad experiences with the general attitude of several students in the same program.

It's not my intention to imply that all of the program participants are jerks or anything less than considerate co-workers, I just hope that by being aware of this, more HHMI students might actively try to give a more positive image to the personal side of the program. I am interested in the program myself, but won't be applying anytime soon. Personally, I think it would be great to come back to my lab as an HHMI student, if only to prove my co-workers wrong Plus, I'm a research ***** and I actually like my lab and the research that we do here.

 

[cornellliu]

Hey, is anyone here applying to the CRTP program this year? If so, i have got some questions. Do I need to have a specific research of interest in mind before I apply? because I am only half way through my 3rd year in med school and I still don't have a clue about what field of medicine I want to pursue in the future? The application seems to suggest that I need to describe a specific research project on the personal statement. any thoughts?

thanks.

 

[chitown82]

just submitted me app for the cloisters program! good luck to everyone

 

[caliMDkid]

I just did the program last year..........

The majority of people def. do NOT get a 1st author paper. I would say about 25% or less. Id say those with their name as 2nd or lower authorship is probably around 40%. Multiple papers is quite unheard of.

I would say that alot of students appear to do the program with a significant amount of their reasoning being residency. But, to each his own, this will happen with any med school related fellowship/award, etc. Id say most have a great time in the year, not just in the lab, but making friends, exploring nightlife, etc.

Of course there are those that leave a bad impression on thier labs. Id say this has nothing to do with the program itself. If there are investigators at NIH that look down or do not take HHMI students because of this, they are not good mentors and its probably a favor they are not taking people.

Do people match well? of course, above average, of course. Is this mostly because of the program, I think not. I think the type of student who applies to such a program is probably already driven and intellegent, and most have impressive resumes even without HHMI. So I think this is more of a reflection of the type of student that does the program, rather than as a result of the program itself.

Does HHMI make us feel like we are the cream of the crop, etc. Yes, they try. But most of us were intellegent enough to realize that this is not really true and that labs were not begging us to join.

In sum, I would not recommend doing the program if you know you are not interested in research, or you will be miserable. Dont feel guilty if you are considering it in part because of residency, most of us put this into consideration. Be realistic. You really cant do much in a year. In reality, it ends up being more like 8 months including when you arrive, depart, vacations, etc.

good luck, feel free to ask questions in this forum if you like and I can try to answer them.

 

[123567]

I'm applying to the Cloister program.

Double majored at a University of California school, phi beta kappa

Did a course-work focused masters degree at a school of public health, but also did research with 1 publication, 3rd author in a good journal

Second year of med school and applying.

Want a solid year of research experience to help me become a better physician-scientist. Very committed to clinical translational research.

Have no idea if i'll get in