- Joined
- Jan 11, 2007
- Messages
- 387
- Reaction score
- 3
Just wondering if anyone has done this or plans to do so during medical school?
Just wondering if anyone has done this or plans to do so during medical school?
Nice Avatar.
Investing student loans is most likely forbidden by your student loan agreement, though I honestly don't know how they would catch you, and what the penalties would be.
Ignoring all that "whether it violates your agreement" stuff, this might not be the best way to invest on margin as student loan interest rates are 6.8% Check with your broker to see what their own margin rates are. But, obviously, you'd need to earn at least 6.8% to make not borrowing that extra money worthwhile.
I probably wouldn't take that risk, but that's just me (for the record, I'm a pretty "liberal" investor.)
Are we just assuming it's forbidden? Even if it is, in theory couldn't someone apply all student loans to their education and invest their own money (For those who have a source of income).
If you had that much income then the you would probably no longer qualify for Stafford loans.
On the federal stafford loan master promissory note you sign that you
-"will immediately repay any loan proceeds that cannot be attributed to educational expenses for attendance on at least a half-time basis at theschool that certified my loan eligibility"
-"Use of Loan Money: I must use the loan money for authorized educational expenses for attendance at the school that certified my elibility for the time period shown on my disclosure statemet. Authorized expenses include the following: tuition, room, board, institutional fees, books, supplies, equipment, dependent child care, transportation, commuting expenses, rental or purchase of a personal computer, orgination fee and guarantee fee."
I don't see "investment" anywhere in that list. I'm fairly certain that if you had enough money to pay for medical school you wouldn't be getting the gov't loans in the first place, and if you did and got them and the bank found out what you were doing with the money you would be going against your contract and they could immediately force you to repay the full amount.
Not really a risk many of us are willing to take.
How does the interest build on government loans? I thought some of these loans don't accrue interest until after med school or, in the case of some really good ones, after residency. In this case, keeping money in a secure interest bearing savings account (5%) would be beating the interest on loans which is $0. In that case, the extra bucks roll in without losing a dime on interest and meanwhile the government's money is safe (FDIC insured).
Thats fine, but this guy is actually talking about risky investments. You can't lose everything while its sitting in a savings account.Interest bearing savings accounts must be fair game as no one in their right mind keeps that kind of cash in their checking account. It's simple security these days because if your atm/check card is stolen, theives can clean out your checking account, but still would not be able to tap into your savings account. I'm sure the government would rather have their loans safe from theives while still being safe in the bank. Pretty much all savings accounts give you some amount of return on your money, the question is simply how much, and since the savings accounts are the same in all other ways you, you might as well grab the highest rate and get something back.
Thats fine, but this guy is actually talking about risky investments. You can't lose everything while its sitting in a savings account.
I know someone who was very frugal in medical school, worked odd jobs, etc and ended up with lower than average debt. In residency, she again lived like a miser, spent every extra dime towards loan repayment. When leaving residency, she had effectively no debt. Then she takes a job with a hospital-based practice that offered to pay a signficant portion of her educational loans for three years (~60K). However, she couldn't take advantage of the benefit because she didn't have any debt to apply the repayment to... In other words, she missed out on free money..
In principle you are investing the government's money even when you have it sitting in a savings account.. risk is subjective. there has to be some clear language that states if investing loan money at all is illegal/legal.
Maybe there is a stipulation that allows only savings accounts, but i think that would probably not be true.
Only 8.5 k is the subsidized loans where the gov't pays your interest until graduation. Most med students will have to take out most or all of the 30k of unsubsidized loans at 6.8% interest. Which IS accruing during medical schoold (but won't capitalize until you graduate)
Thats fine, but this guy is actually talking about risky investments. You can't lose everything while its sitting in a savings account.
I mean what on earth are you going to do when you lose your shirt and no longer have next semesters $30k tuition?!?
why wouldnt the hospital just increase her salary by 60K. this is entirely unfair. there's no financial difference b/w the hospital giving you 60K up front or giving you 60K for your loans. In the end the hospital loses 60K! this is ridiuclous. Now im not sure if I should even try to limit my spending in medical school for fear of not getting a free benefit. I guess one should only limit their spending to a degree that gives them an estimated debt of about 60K when they leave? Does anyone know the ranges in these debt "benefits"? Do most residencies have this in their "package"? If so, how much do they usually give?
Investing student loans is illegal in all 50 states.
Fair enough - but in that case it seems like it would make more sense to just not take the loans out in the first place. If you're gonna live like a miser take out fewer loans and owe less later.Angel,
I don't think you have a good understanding of how the loan process works...
It would be impossible for someone to spend the loan money that is dedicated to tuition and fees. This is because loans are disbursed to the school first. The school will deduct all of the educational expenses that show up on your bill (tuition, lab fees, health insurance, etc). The difference will THEN be sent to you in the form of a refund check to be used for living expenses. This will be done each semester. It would be impossible to spend next semesters tuition because the school makes sure they get their money before they send it to you.
Let's say that your refund for one semester is 9K (Room, Board, transport,etc). But you decide to live like a miser, eat Ramen noodles, and use local transit and only spend 6K that semester. You would then have a few options: 1. Return the money or 2. Take a risk and invest it, hoping to get a better return on the money than 6.2 % APR (over four years). Would you object to putting the money into a money market mutual fund or bond fund?
I don't see it as much different that someone deciding to spend an extra 3K on parties, beer, and travel. However, I do understand where you're coming from and respect your opinion.
Are we just assuming it's forbidden? Even if it is, in theory couldn't someone apply all student loans to their education and invest their own money (For those who have a source of income).
I don't think it's that risky to have a hurdle rate of 6.8% simple interest over four years. It actually equates to approx 6.2% Annualized APR (Using CAGR method). The cheapest margin rates I know of are 8.25%, and those are for people with debit balances in excess of $1 M.
Oh yeah, I forgot to comment about that. If you seriously think that you will seek out one of those loan repayment programs (to me, they don't seem that appealing because the only ones that I am familiar with involve military service, or work in poor/underserved areas) then maybe you will come out better taking out the maximum amount of loans possible. But to me, the "cost" of the terms of the repayment agreement aren't worth the cash that you receive from those programs, but that's just me.Please see my post above about my friend who lived like a miser, minimized debt, and then lost out on free money later...
Like I said in a previous thread, I'd be happy to pull out my loan contract from my student loans, but, oh yeah, I disposed of it a few years ago when I paid them off
Of course you can apply the loans to your education and invest your savings and not violate any laws/terms of your loan agreement, but then you're not truly investing student loans, which was how you asked the question.
Seems high to me, but I honestly haven't been watching rates in a while, so I don't know for sure.
But, you are underestimating the risk. First off, any brokerage house will enforce the SEC's 50% equity rule on leveraged investments. If you side-step this by securing your own borrowed $$$ you are taking on sizeable risk (even before the Great Depression, the equity rules were 10%) unless you are disciplined enough to maintain that much cash/equity on your own. No offense, but if you are that strapped for cash that you need to consider investing student loan $$$, I think you will have problems. I've been short squeezed before (generally the only time I really trade on margin is when I sell short) and it was only because of the [enforced] discipline of my broker and the gobs of cash that I had sitting around that I was able to weather the storm. With the market as volatile as it is, you could find your $$$ vaporized and you left still holding the bag for your student loans. But that's just my opinion. I think the only way you (or anyone, for that matter) will learn this stuff is to expereince it, so who am I to discourage you
Investing student loans is illegal in all 50 states.
Whoa, who said I was interested in investing on margin?
I never said I was going to invest in stocks and I never said I was going to buy or short on margin. Secondly, if you're strapped for cash, investing your loan money is NOT the way to go.
I only looked up the margin rates because someone else said to look up margin rates. I'm a very risky investor, but I'm not sure I would back my margin investments with student loan funds. I've been trading and investing since '97, so I've experienced the short squeeze on a number of picks over the years and taken some big hits (tech). I also shorted WorldCom back in the day...
Even if I did lose some of the student loan money, I could just do an NIH repayment program and break even.
So basically, most people who replied to this post are conservative (financially) and are not investing during medical school.
Jota,
Ever invest or hear about tax-lien certificates? Many return 18% to 24% per annum and are backed by real property. Robert Kiyosaki talks about them in "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" although he doesn't provide a lot of details. I've invested in them in my home state with great success over the past few years securing solid 18% return. Some jurisdictions have online bidding processes which make it really easy. If you want more information about what places allow do this, PM me
Investing the loan money is NOT the same as trading on margin. First off, investing a lump sum of student loans will not be subject to maintenance requirements/margin calls from the government). A typical margin loan from a brokerage is completely different in that it increases purchasing power and risk. As you're probably aware, traditional margin trades create the opportunity for someone to lose more than the principal investment.
Taking loan money and investing it in a stock/fund/bond, etc is not the same. Worst case scenario is losing the principal investment.