Anyone ever receive a bad committee letter...

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airca12

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that you know of?

I was looking at USU's med school admissions page and came across this:

"Some undergraduate schools have a Pre-Medical Committee that interviews students, compiles LORs for them and writes cover letters to the medical schools. The cover letter usually ranks an individual among the pool of applicants from that school. (i.e. "Recommends with enthusiasm," "recommends," "recommends with reservations" or "does not recommend.") USU prefers an applicant have a pre-medical letter, if their school offers one. " [taken from here: http://www.usuhs.mil/medschool/somfaq.html#6]


I had a mini heart attack when I read that. Would a committee actually write you a letter saying they recommended you with reservations or did not recommend you? Imagine spending hundreds of dollars on app fees to not even know that your committee wrote you a negative letter.

That doesn't really happen, does it? Wouldn't they just tell you they couldn't write you a letter instead of writing a bad one?
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At my school if you want to apply you fill out this long form for the pre-med committee around Christmas break, and then the pre-med advisor meets with you to talk about your application, strengths, weaknesses, personal statement, etc. At that time she basically tells you you're good to go or that you should work on certain aspects of your app or that she sees a significant weakness and would recommend you take some time off before applying. I feel like if a committee is going to write you a bad letter, they aren't going to encourage you to apply- if you think about it, it looks bad for the school if applicants are applying but not getting in anywhere- it would make much more sense for the advisor to suggest a year off to improve the app compared to advising an applicant who has a low chance of getting in to go ahead and apply. Oh, and to clarify we need to have our recommendations in by mid-Feb, which is usually before this meeting, so it's not like they haven't seen our recs yet (usually)
 
Calm down. If the premed committee has something negative to say, they will probably make it painfully obvious in the interview (if the premed committee interviews you). If they do not, I imagine they would contact you to find out more information, at which point you will find out then. At which point, it will be up to you to decide how to proceed (use the letter or not).
 
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I'm glad my school stopped having committee letters before I applied. There's just seems to be so much more potential for these committee letters to hurt you compared to applicants from schools without these letters. I've never heard an adcom say that my school not having committee letters will hurt the candidacy of students from my school.

My school's committee definitely had members that were wearing too many hats. One committee member at my school happens to also be the only professor for two required premed courses for at least 3 years, the only advisor for two majors that had premeds, and heavily involved in the post-bac program. Another member happened to also be one of the advisors for bio majors, a premed advisor and, as I found out when bio majors got a farewell email from him, was actively applying to med schools himself (no, he didn't get into any med schools. Left to be an adcom at a med school...)
 
Doctura said:
Calm down. If the premed committee has something negative to say, they will probably make it painfully obvious in the interview (if the premed committee interviews you). If they do not, I imagine they would contact you to find out more information, at which point you will find out then. At which point, it will be up to you to decide how to proceed (use the letter or not).
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Some/most/all med schools require you to use the committee if your undergrad has a committee.

But i agree with posters that if they had something bad to say they would say it to your face. of course, not getting the MOST enthusiastic endorsement from your own school could also be the kiss of death.
 
During our committee interviews one girl was crying in my organic class because they straight up told her "I don't know if we can write a letter for you". If this was just an individual letter writer than she would just be able to find someone else, but being that she has no option but to go through the committee, I feel really bad for her...
 
LittleRocker said:
During our committee interviews one girl was crying in my organic class because they straight up told her "I don't know if we can write a letter for you". If this was just an individual letter writer than she would just be able to find someone else, but being that she has no option but to go through the committee, I feel really bad for her...
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Well, in her case, she should NOT use the committee, unless they provided her guidance as to how to improve her app to gain their recommendation...
 
Keep in mind every single secondary application asks why you did not use a committee letter if your school offers the service.

Can't think of a very good reason why a student wouldn't use it if they are coming straight out of school. I'm pretty sure this is a red flag. If I were "the crying girl", I would ask how to improve the app and then do whatever I need to in order to get the committee letter.
 
My only experience with them is they take forever to write. I think mine took around 2 or 3 months. So start the process for it early.
 
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tdittyx2x3 said:
Keep in mind every single secondary application asks why you did not use a committee letter if your school offers the service.
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This is true, but there are many reasons why someone may not end up with a committee letter even if their school offers one. In my case, I did not end up using a committee letter because I didn't decide to apply for the 2008 cycle until early september, and by then it was far too late to request a letter. I explained my situation to each school, and absolutely none of them had a problem accepting a packet of individual letters instead of the "required" committee letter.

I realize that this reason isn't exactly the same as "my school couldn't write me a positive letter", I'm just trying to show that there are a few situations where schools waive the committee letter "requirement" without hassling an applicant.
 
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At one of my interviews my interviewer asked me if there were many pre-meds at my college. I answered, yes but the pre-med committee is relatively new... She said "you can tell, your committee letter is somewhat rough around the edges. Most big schools have a put-together "package" and yours... well... yeah." Haha damn small liberal arts colleges. I should have bypassed said committee letter all together (especially since I had to explain to the committee what virtualevals and interfolio were, hope next years students are happy about that one!)
 
URHere said:
This is true, but there are many reasons why someone may not end up with a committee letter even if their school offers one. ... I'm just trying to show that there are a few situations where schools waive the committee letter "requirement" without hassling an applicant.
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This really isn't a big deal and I'm not trying to make it one.. (read: we are all friends here haha) but I just don't want this to be interpretted as advice that an applicant can avoid a pre-health committee. The "few situations" are truly few and far between if you are still in school or only a year out. Not having the letter can only put you at a disadvantage.

(Unless of course an applicant was certain they would write you a negative letter, which would say a lot about your chances for acceptance to begin with.)

Bottom line: Jump through the hoops like everybody else!
 
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cbrons said:
Pre-med committees are a huge joke. Why does everything need a ****ing committee these days? So you need 4 random people from the science department to tell you whether or not you're good enough for med. school? Bah, sounds like **** to me. Nothing more than an opportunity for insecure faculty members to inflate their egos by telling you how worthless you are. I'm glad we don't have this non-sense at my school and will say again that I feel sorry for those of you who have to put with their bull****.
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my thoughts exactly... i couldn't have said it better myself...:thumbup:

We have a premed committee at my school too, which I completely bypassed. I had enough deadlines/requirements/bull**** on my plate to worry about. I couldn't imagine finding the time to kiss my school's ass to recommend me. Screw them.
 
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cbrons said:
Pre-med committees are a huge joke. Why does everything need a ****ing committee these days? So you need 4 random people from the science department to tell you whether or not you're good enough for med. school? Bah, sounds like **** to me. Nothing more than an opportunity for insecure faculty members to inflate their egos by telling you how worthless you are. I'm glad we don't have this non-sense at my school and will say again that I feel sorry for those of you who have to put with their bull****.
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I have to chime in, as apparently I'm the only person here who's found their premed committee to be useful (not to mention nice).

First of all, our committee is made up of current students at our university's medical school, so they're neither power-tripping faculty nor far removed from the application process. Secondly, the committee tries to work with students from sophomore year onward, meaning they'll start advising early and they'll have known you for a while before they write a letter for you. Usually this means they can write a kick-ass letter or they can let you know well in advance if you're unlikely to be successful in the med school application process.

Obviously not every school's premed committee is going to be as fantastic as ours, but I just wanted to say that not every committee is useless. And for those with committees that are less committed or outgoing than my own, taking the time to get to know the members of the committee on your own initiative could be very helpful.
 
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LittleRocker said:
During our committee interviews one girl was crying in my organic class because they straight up told her "I don't know if we can write a letter for you". If this was just an individual letter writer than she would just be able to find someone else, but being that she has no option but to go through the committee, I feel really bad for her...
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Well that's not so bad because they really are saving her a lot of trouble. Clearly medical school is not for her. She can always look at other career paths. I think more schools should actually do this.
 
My school will actually refuse to write committee letters for students they do not support. If you push the issue they will write one for you, but then you pretty much know it's with reservation.

I have a friend who was told not to apply or apply without the school's blessings. He applied, failed, ended up doing a PhD somewhere else a few years later.
 
littlealex said:
My school will actually refuse to write committee letters for students they do not support. If you push the issue they will write one for you, but then you pretty much know it's with reservation.

I have a friend who was told not to apply or apply without the school's blessings. He applied, failed, ended up doing a PhD somewhere else a few years later.
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u sure about that? i was under the impression we go to the same uni. that's not what ive heard about the committee and from the head premed advisor.. but it's also true that you may be referring to the previous premed adviser(s)?
 
cbrons said:
Pre-med committees are a huge joke. Why does everything need a ****ing committee these days? So you need 4 random people from the science department to tell you whether or not you're good enough for med. school? Bah, sounds like **** to me. Nothing more than an opportunity for insecure faculty members to inflate their egos by telling you how worthless you are. I'm glad we don't have this non-sense at my school and will say again that I feel sorry for those of you who have to put with their bull****.
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if i'm not mistaken, you can request ppl to be on your individual committee at some schools [including mine]

i think the committee is a good thing. if you are a good applicant, they can write the LORs in a way to make you seem even better. if you suck, they can tell you what you need to improve. i don't see why they would try and sabotage their students for their namesake. i just think they try and be frank/honest and wont sugar coat your prospects.
 
and OP
yes there have been some horror stories from my school about applicants not getting letters or getting sucky ones because their application had many holes and they ignored the committees suggestions to hold of application. i dunno of any stories of people who have overcome terrible letters though..but the committee definetly warns ppl if their application is shaky.
 
My premed committee consisted of one bitter lady. She told a fellow applicant (who got into med school, with a 30+ MCAT, 3.5+ GPA with research and volunteer background) that he should reconsider because there are just so many Asian male applicants.

The same lady took 3 months to write my letter, and we had only 7 students who finished their Primary AMCAS... And I'm sure she butchered it since no one would see it.

So, OP, if you have strong credentials, and overall a strong application, and not completely socially awkward, just go through with the committee and make sure you follow up!! (I asked in the beginning of July, then mid August, and then end of Sept when she said she'd finally finished).
 
i don't get why everyone hates committee letters

as long as they send in the LORs in a timely fashion, it's all good.
 
I know I got "recommended with reservation" because of my GPA. Any issue, be it a lower than ave GPA, poor ECs, low MCAT... will win you that distinction at my ugrad. Rumors are that something like 15% of applicants this year were recommended at said level. The committee will also refuse to recommend some people. It's funny because on the tours that go around campus, the guides always say "80% of our premed students get into medschool on their first try"... this may have something to do with actively discouraging people from applying... Anyway, on the plus side, my adviser made it clear that if the committee gives you a recommendation of any form, they will write you a positive letter and explain the reason for their reservations without the use of particularly disparaging language. I got accepted despite the letter and my GPA so I guess it's not a total app killer...
 
Honestly though Discouraging the right people at the right time is not a bad thing. A professor of mine was approached by some pre-meds with a 2.5 and a 24 on the MCATs... So she asked me, do I crush their dream now or encourage false hope (it was said in a half joking way, and she's very nice person).

You should evaluate yourself. The numbers and statistics are out there. If you can measure up against a typical Matriculant, then stop worrying and hurry along the application. Even if your stats were a bit lower, you should also try, b/c you may have something that shines through in person. If however, you are far below, then you might expect a bad recommendation or no recs at all. I feel like that Committee letters are the only thing that's really out of your control. You could have wonderful individual letters and a poorly written, terribly organized committee letter.

Best of luck.
 
tdittyx2x3 said:
Keep in mind every single secondary application asks why you did not use a committee letter if your school offers the service.

Can't think of a very good reason why a student wouldn't use it if they are coming straight out of school. I'm pretty sure this is a red flag. If I were "the crying girl", I would ask how to improve the app and then do whatever I need to in order to get the committee letter.
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I didn't have a committee letter when I applied this cycle, and I come from a school with a committee. I've been to 5 interviews thus far and I haven't been asked about it once.

Seriously, people seem to put way too much stock in the pre-med advisers/committees. My pre-med adviser was a complete idiot and handed out lots of false/misguided/snarky information to our school's applicants. If you don't want to deal with your schools pre-med committee, just don't. Find some science faculty members who will write strong recs and go from there.
 
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nontypicalazn said:
Honestly though Discouraging the right people at the right time is not a bad thing. A professor of mine was approached by some pre-meds with a 2.5 and a 24 on the MCATs...
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I agree that there are some cases in which people need to be told to wait. The case that you're referencing is a perfect example. I was referring (albeit implicitly) to the borderline cases where your stats aren't making the choice for you. For example, low GPA/high MCAT or high GPA/low MCAT combos. For people in those situations, advising makes a huge difference as to whether or not they apply. Advising is done differently at every school so I can only speak from my experience, but the advising I received was a very mixed bag. The most useful interaction I had with my adviser was a frank discussion about when to apply. The committee, on the other hand, was not a great experience for me... my main complaints being that our committee doesn't interview and they don't consider MCAT scores. So actually, a correction from my previous sleep deprived post, a person with a low MCAT (read: under 25) could receive the highest recommendation from our committe while people with lower than ave GPAs will be recommended with reservation. I suppose there's no perfect way to run such a committee, but I definitely felt disadvantaged based on my specific profile. I agree with earlier posters in saying that individual letters are much easier to deal with.
 
I think my committee put disparaging things in my letter since I have been receiving an unusual amount of post-interview rejections. If you ask them for your letters to be sent to interfolio or something, are they required to do that? If so, can you pick out their letter from the packet??
 
It can and does happen.


Moral of the story: be nice to people.

Names in attachment destructively redacted to protect the guilty and the innocent.

This guy had high stats but didn't make it in.
 

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Untraditional said:
It can and does happen.


Moral of the story: be nice to people.

Names in attachment destructively redacted to protect the guilty and the innocent.

This guy had high stats but didn't make it in.
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that's really sad. but, I was nothing but cordial and kind to people in general and especially at my pre-health office. unfortunately, they are very nasty individuals that seem so bitter about their life's prospects.

Edit: even if the guy was a d*ck, that's terrible to destroy his life because he was rude to a secretary.
 
FIREitUP said:
that's really sad. but, I was nothing but cordial and kind to people in general and especially at my pre-health office. unfortunately, they are very nasty individuals that seem so bitter about their life's prospects.

Edit: even if the guy was a d*ck, that's terrible to destroy his life because he was rude to a secretary.
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Rudeness is one thing (though inexcusable) but to be so rude that the dean especially takes notice and remembers you for such incidents? He deserved it.
 
ABRuniverse said:
Rudeness is one thing (though inexcusable) but to be so rude that the dean especially takes notice and remembers you for such incidents? He deserved it.
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One could speculate that the person in that letter was a real gunner with a sense of entitlement who was arrogant and demanding. Great stats mean nothing if you don't have the maturity to exercise basic politeness.

Or maybe he sexually harassed the secretary?

Only the Loyola Dean of Pre Health Advising knows!
 
Letters are often read before granting interviews so pre-interview rejections would be more common than post-intervew rejections if the reason were a bad letter.

Some schools do categorized their applicants and "recommend with reservations", "recommend", "highly recommend" or "most highly recommend" (or some similar language). Some go further to tell you how many applicants get each designation and some will tell you how many got each designation in the previous cycle and the success rate of each tier in being admitted to med school.

Yes, I do believe that some school's improve their admission to med school stats by shutting down applicants who are unlikely to be admitted.

Most of the top schools have some form of committee or person who writes a "committee letter" (Yale, Cornell, Columbia, NYU, Duke, Hopkins, Georgetown, Emory, Notre Dame immediately come to mind). At Harvard they are written by someone at the residential house rather than a central location.

Some people get in despite a bad letter but it greatly lessens your chances.
 
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ABRuniverse said:
Rudeness is one thing (though inexcusable) but to be so rude that the dean especially takes notice and remembers you for such incidents? He deserved it.
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Every year we have at least one applicant who is rejected after interview for being rude to the staff on interview day. Staff members will report it; in one case, a dean (not the dean of admissions) witnessed it and reported it. The applicant had no idea that someone nearby could hear his rude and condescending remarks to the secretary.
 
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LizzyM said:
Every year we have at least one applicant who is rejected after interview for being rude to the staff on interview day. Staff members will report it; in one case, a dean (not the dean of admissions) witnessed it and reported it. The applicant had no idea that someone nearby could hear his rude and condescending remarks to the secretary.
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I don't understand how people can be rude in high pressure situations like that. When I'm waiting to meet someone of importance I'm usually scared out of my wits and incredibly meek.
 
Well one of my LOR wrote that I would be a great candidate for DENTAL school -__-
 
I will never understand the urging and passionate desire of LOR writer or a committee to betray the applicant's trust by backstabbing them with a bad LOR. They have the power of confidentiality, and that power to write vitriolic garbage to derail the applicant who doesn't know what the letter says is disgraceful.
 
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The nice thing about being a non-trad is that you can get in without a committee letter.
 
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