Anyone from NA end up staying in Aus?

[Lokhtar]

This was taken from the Asia News Service:
http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=12796&size=A

Still think Australia is racist, you do not ever hear of the Australian government creating an order to forbid restaurants from serving "blacks" and "Mongolians", this happened during the most high profile international event on Earth, the Summer Olympics in Beijing.

I would say Google Russia and Racism, Zimbabwe and Racism, Britain and Racism, France and Racism, Dubai and Racism, Israel and Racism, Brazil and Racism, Argentina and Racism, Japan and Racism, of course USA and Racism and a few other countries and you will hear far worse stories of bigotry than in Australia. Unlike the other countries Australia with the exception of the US Oz is multicultural. That little Cronulla fracas three years ago was nothing compared to Los Angeles 1992 and what happened in Paris in 2005.

Considering what happened in Beijing, I ewc I would take what that Chinese girl told you with a grain of salt, a big one. Its a fact of life that not everyone is going to get along.

Well, no one is comparing Australia with, say, Zimbabwe, or even China. We are comparing it with the US, and perhaps Canada. I've had no problems as a south asian in the US, living in the Northeast. None at all. From what a couple people told me, its much worse in Australia. That's what I was asking, especially when I read things like this. I don't care what people say, but physical danger is another thing.

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[gmacpac]

Well, no one is comparing Australia with, say, Zimbabwe, or even China. We are comparing it with the US, and perhaps Canada. I've had no problems as a south asian in the US, living in the Northeast. None at all. From what a couple people told me, its much worse in Australia. That's what I was asking, especially when I read things like this. I don't care what people say, but physical danger is another thing.

I don't know which part of the Northeast you live in, but I happen to live in Northeast and I am a South Asian as well. Things might be better now, may be because I am older, but I have witnessed many racist events in major cities like NYC and Boston.

 

[shan564]

It's possible to find isolated incidents of anything. Just because there were a few stories about racist violence doesn't mean that racist violence is prevalent... it could mean a lot of other things (for instance, it could mean that the media in one country likes to report racist violence, while the other doesn't.... or it could mean that the racist violence in a certain country just goes unreported). The overall risk of violence for an average person is so low in both places that it's essentially a nonfactor.

I might have a 0.01% chance of being hurt because of my race in one place, and a 0.02% chance in another place. Even though 0.02 is twice as much as 0.01, both numbers are so insignificant that I'd consider myself equally unlucky if I was on the receiving end of such violence.

Usually, the people who get beat up for racist reasons are also the people who identify strongly with their race and act out the stereotypes that others hate so much. It's always taxi drivers and motel owners and other people who often feel obligated to reject Western culture completely. I've never heard reports of an educated person being beat up for racist reasons.

 

[gmacpac]

Dude, racism is racism. It has many faces. At the taxi cab or motel level it might manifest itself in the form of physical/verbal abuse, but in other areas of life such as academia, and at the corporate level it manifests in different ways. Case in point.....

http://wvgazette.com/News/200806290325

This is one reflection of racism, while I am not an expert in racial profiling, I have witnessed many racial injustices at an institutional level in the Northeast.

On the contrary, I think its hard to label ALL taxi cab assaults as racially motivated because:

1. In a city like New York......99% of cab drivers are foreigners, especially of South Asian dissent. So any physical attack on a cab driver is inadvertently going to be on an "Indian".

2. People who have so much time in their life to argue with and attack a cab driver are typically not going to be "good citizens" at their baseline. Their education level in general is not going to be that high. Thus physical attacks by such people are likely to be on anyone. Regardless of race. And off course, if such person is riding a cab, he is likely to be involved in a verbal argument, which may very likely escalate to physical altercation.

So are we going to label all fights instigated by such people as "racially motivated"? These people are likely to fight their grandma, let alone a cab driver

 

[JohnnyRockets]

Well, no one is comparing Australia with, say, Zimbabwe, or even China. We are comparing it with the US, and perhaps Canada. I've had no problems as a south asian in the US, living in the Northeast. None at all. From what a couple people told me, its much worse in Australia. That's what I was asking, especially when I read things like this. I don't care what people say, but physical danger is another thing.

I am applying for BDent in Sydney, and I have been to Australia a few times(studied for a year at UNSW a few years ago), I am of Asian(Malaysian) background and I found Australia more hospitable than the US in a number of ways. I do think there are racists there but that seems to a worldwide issue. I currently live in Des Moines, Iowa and I hate it, I can tell you that Middle Americans do have some issues with Islam, even among educated people at my university I was shocked at the ignorance. When I went to Sydney, they seem to have a more visible Muslim population, a lot of people of Lebanese, Turkish, Malaysian, Indonesian, and South Asian origin, way more than in most American cities. I lived there for a year and did not run into many problems.

Even on MTV's Real World in Sydney, there was an Iranian American castmate who really liked it there and remarked that Sydney turned out be quite diverse.

Aussies also like to travel to countries like Malaysia and Indonesia for vacation and most middle Americans would not be caught dead in those places.

Unfortunately I have hear of similar things happen in the States. Driving a taxi is dangerous work, I actually have driven a cab part time and know what its like to deal with some rather hostile people. Driving a taxi for a while in school, I can tell you the people who I often encounter were not very educated, I would say the same would hold true for Australian cab drivers, many of them often work late at night and pick up drunks from pubs, I have seen it personally how alcohol fueled people act, they can be jerks regardless of what country they are in, because ethanol does things to people.

My cousin was in the US Marines and when he came back some Jerk called him a sandnigger. I have been called this a couple of times, actually more than that. I even got searched on my college campus for no apparent reason when I left my ID card at home.

Look what happened to this fellow in Seattle:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1676231/posts

9-11 related hate crimes:
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/gen.hate.crimes/

Another one in NYC:
http://us.rediff.com/news/2004/jul/13sikh.htm

 

[JoeNamaMD]

My best advice is this. Come down to Australia, visit the place for at least a couple of weeks, try to focus your time in the city where your medical school is located, visit the campus, talk to students, and then get an idea of what Australia is really like. My experience is that its a great and very open country to live in and thousands of people immigrate here from all over the place. I honestly see it as America lite, the US with its comforts but less of the other unsavory stuff.

Philadelphia is free of racial friction and young black men can be treated with
utmost respect by its police!!! Not!!!:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnazqPC0sQE[/YOUTUBE]

Aussie TV show exposing racist Americans:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2rJBR5tmBY[/YOUTUBE]

 

[driedcaribou]

of where you wish to live and practice it is better to get in early and do most of your training there.

Agreed.

This was a pleasant topic until it went off about economics and politics.

I admit I share many of the views that redshifteffect and Mark mention.

Australia is a wonderful place to live. But the whole issue boils down to love of the country and your job against the love of your family.

Just have fun in life.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Agreed.

This was a pleasant topic until it went off about economics and politics.

I admit I share many of the views that redshifteffect and Mark mention.

Australia is a wonderful place to live. But the whole issue boils down to love of the country and your job against the love of your family.

Just have fun in life.

Good idea. I am getting sick of listening to all this crap about Australia, its one of the best places to live in the world.

 

[Lokhtar]

Sorry if I offended. I was not 'talking crap', I was merely asking for clarification on things I've heard.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Sorry if I offended. I was not 'talking crap', I was merely asking for clarification on things I've heard.

Well a fellow Yank is far more likely to oppress you than an Aussie for the color of your skin or your ethnicity. I honestly cannot tell the difference between Indians, Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis, and to most people South Asians can be Arab to them.

I am far more likely to trust an Australian I do not know than another American, its very sad but true.

Another piece of evidence that UQ is a world class medical school, as good as the best in the USA:
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/04/08/ft.frazer/

 

[Freedom75]

I have been in Australia for nearly five years, I am not missing the US at all, I was there just last December, the place is going downhill. I am going on a trip to Europe this December before I move to NSW for my internship year.

Hey Joe, back to the whole staying in Australia thing. Do you know what the rules are in terms of work visas/permanent residency post-graduation?

As for the whole culutal difference thing, I've been in Aus for a little over a year and I'd say that culturally Australia is about the same as Canada. I have travelled to Europe, Asian, America and Africa and I have never felt such a small culture shock. I'd say I had more of a culture shock visiting the States compared to Aus. The main differenced are that Australia has worse skiing/snowboarding but better beaches. Oh ya and they like Cricket as opposed to baseball and footy (or rubgy depends where you are) instead of hockey...oh how I miss hockey.

The Canadians I know that have moved back have only done it because of missing family and friends, not because Australia is a bad place to live. Trust me, it isn't.

 

[Freedom75]

Another piece of evidence that UQ is a world class medical school, as good as the best in the USA:
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/04/08/ft.frazer/

Careful, achievements in research do not necessarily mean that they are high achievers in teaching, although achievements in research do increase the prestige of the school. I have in fact heard (through Aus doctors & a student who attended the AMA conference) that with the rapid expansion of the medical school at UQ the quality has dropped off slightly (due to reduced availability of quality PBL tutors and reduced access to anatomy/clinical labs). I'm not saying you'll receive a bad education at UQ, I'm simply saying that they are going through some growing pains as anyone would expect with the rapid expansion of a program (from what I have heard through 2nd/3rd hand discussions). They are a very reputable school that consistenly scores in the top 100 universities for life sciences (I believe the UK Times was the most recent and put them in the top 50 in fact).

On the flip side Flinders is highly regarded as one of the best teaching schools in the country, however you'll never see them in the news because they don't do much in the way of research. As a consequency you'll never see them in any top 100 world ranking because those rankings put a strong emphasis on the research/publications prodcued by universities. So take news with regards to research with a grain of salt, it does not guarantee anything when it comes to the teaching abilities of a university.

 

[JohnnyRockets]

Well to a lot of PDs, a good research reputation can only help your chances. Most of the best IM programs look for research experience and schools like UQ where you have a chance to engage in world class research I think would help my chances of securing a competitive residency. Harvard has a Sydney grad in their Neurology program, Harvard tends to be anti-IMG with the exception of grads from Australia, UK, and Ireland, a few Europeans like Germany.

 

[gmacpac]

Well to a lot of PDs, a good research reputation can only help your chances. Most of the best IM programs look for research experience and schools like UQ where you have a chance to engage in world class research I think would help my chances of securing a competitive residency. Harvard has a Sydney grad in their Neurology program, Harvard tends to be anti-IMG with the exception of grads from Australia, UK, and Ireland, a few Europeans like Germany.

I have met foreign grads from Iran, India, Syria, Germany, and Lebanon at Harvard. But you are right, the bulk of Harvard's foreign grads come from UK and Ireland. AU grad concentration is pretty much the same as those other countries mentioned above.

Also, research makes a huge difference on your resume. At least from what I have seen.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Careful, achievements in research do not necessarily mean that they are high achievers in teaching, although achievements in research do increase the prestige of the school. I have in fact heard (through Aus doctors & a student who attended the AMA conference) that with the rapid expansion of the medical school at UQ the quality has dropped off slightly (due to reduced availability of quality PBL tutors and reduced access to anatomy/clinical labs). I'm not saying you'll receive a bad education at UQ, I'm simply saying that they are going through some growing pains as anyone would expect with the rapid expansion of a program (from what I have heard through 2nd/3rd hand discussions). They are a very reputable school that consistenly scores in the top 100 universities for life sciences (I believe the UK Times was the most recent and put them in the top 50 in fact).

On the flip side Flinders is highly regarded as one of the best teaching schools in the country, however you'll never see them in the news because they don't do much in the way of research. As a consequency you'll never see them in any top 100 world ranking because those rankings put a strong emphasis on the research/publications prodcued by universities. So take news with regards to research with a grain of salt, it does not guarantee anything when it comes to the teaching abilities of a university.

I know some people who go to schools like Harvard and Columbia and complain about the quality of teaching at those schools, professors are far more involved in research at those places to give a toss about undergraduate medical students, yet everyone would list those as among the world's best medical school easily.
Research is a key activity of most university based medical schools, I think its perfect criteria to judge a school, advancement of knowledge is key to medicine.
As far as staying Australia, just about everyone graduating this year that I know who wants to stay can do so. I doubt this will change but there is no guarantee.

 

[redshifteffect]

Hey Joe, back to the whole staying in Australia thing. Do you know what the rules are in terms of work visas/permanent residency post-graduation?

As for the whole culutal difference thing, I've been in Aus for a little over a year and I'd say that culturally Australia is about the same as Canada. I have travelled to Europe, Asian, America and Africa and I have never felt such a small culture shock. I'd say I had more of a culture shock visiting the States compared to Aus. The main differenced are that Australia has worse skiing/snowboarding but better beaches. Oh ya and they like Cricket as opposed to baseball and footy (or rubgy depends where you are) instead of hockey...oh how I miss hockey.

The Canadians I know that have moved back have only done it because of missing family and friends, not because Australia is a bad place to live. Trust me, it isn't.

What sort of rules are you looking for in regards to work permits? I'm an intern this year, and had to apply for my work Visa last year. Anything particular you want to know?

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Right now, I do not see much of an issue with students in QLD and SA having problems staying in Australia. I think in a few years it will get harder for students in NSW and Victoria. I wound up getting an internship spot in NSW anyway, I think I just got lucky but most internationals are going to stay in Brisbane for their intern year.

A lot of people make complaints about this and that, even Australian GPs whinge that 275k a year is not enough. Frankly very few American GPs(Family Practitioners in the USA) earn that kind of coin. A lot of Brisbane area GPs actually earn a lot more than that, I have heard of entry level assistant GP salaries starting at 200k a year working for another GP. Some good practices can net 500k a year in QLD. Few Australian doctors I have met live in poverty, actually none. My fiancee's father is a physician and frankly her family actually lives better than mine in the States, they have been all over the planet, live in a beautiful home, have nice cars, etc. Its also a big misconception that just because someone lives in the US that means they are automatically going to be more successful than someone who is not from North America. A lot of Canadians I have met hold this same attitude that Americans have towards the rest of the planet. These days its changing. You can prosper anywhere and Australia is actually a pretty good country to do just that.

 

[freshclay]

Hi everyone -

I'm a 5th-year Med at Melbourne, originally from Arizona. I looked at this forum because I'm 50/50 on going home vs staying later in my career. After reading some enlightening posts, I'm still on the fence.

I'm not particularly fussed either way: Melbourne is a pretty decent city and I don't have any winters to run away from like the Canadians. I personally find Phoenix and Tucson to be "under-the-radar" livable cities in their own right as well. I do miss the Taco Bell, but not getting it is a good thing for my health. And with Foxtel, I get most of my American sports fix satisfied.

There have been many tangents in this thread and if I could add another small one: I was wondering if people had suggestions for what Aussie cities they find great for living and working in (transportation, cost-of-living, day-to-day grind, FOOD!, social life, availability of basketball courts, etc) as I have to decide on internships next year. What hospitals did you like or not have good experiences in? I haven't got out of Melbourne much so it's really my only Aussie reference point other than Tassie and Byron Bay. I will probably end up staying in Victoria if I'm fortunate enough to get an internship here, but was hoping for some more food for thought from you all.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Taco Bell is becoming disgusting lately, I tried it in Chicago a few months ago, and my taco was moldy. I was also getting a big time Nando's craving in Chicago which is not available in the US. Nando's Chicken is like crack, they cook it all fresh too, the people at KFC should learn from these people.

 

[redshifteffect]

Taco Bell is becoming disgusting lately, I tried it in Chicago a few months ago, and my taco was moldy. I was also getting a big time Nando's craving in Chicago which is not available in the US. Nando's Chicken is like crack, they cook it all fresh too, the people at KFC should learn from these people.

Seriously Nando's is the best.

I have no idea why it doesn't run well in Canada. I'm guessing it's the spices? Canadians in general don't seem to be able to handle spicy food that well.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Seriously Nando's is the best.

I have no idea why it doesn't run well in Canada. I'm guessing it's the spices? Canadians in general don't seem to be able to handle spicy food that well.

I thought Toronto is supposed to be famous for Indian food.

What is up with Canadian women though? I remember just this past summer, a couple of Canadians girls on a subway in Chicago thought I was checking them out, I was really wondering they the clueless fools were going in the wrong direction on the train. I have been to Canada a couple of times, no offense but it was a depressing place, gloomy and boring. Some people might find Australia boring, but at least the weather is good, you won't freeze your ass off.

 

[leilad]

lol...toronto doesn't have many, if any, great indian restaurants at ALL!!! if anyone knows any, please pass on that info to me! hehe!

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Toronto is supposed to have a huge South Asian population, why no good Indian restaurants? Almost every other major city in the world with a sizable South Asian population usually has a lot of Indian restaurants. I thought some places in Vancouver serve pretty decent Indian food.

There is one area in North Sydney where the street literally smelled like Indian curry.

 

[gmacpac]

Toronto is supposed to have a huge South Asian population, why no good Indian restaurants? Almost every other major city in the world with a sizable South Asian population usually has a lot of Indian restaurants. I thought some places in Vancouver serve pretty decent Indian food.

There is one area in North Sydney where the street literally smelled like Indian curry.

While certain cities in USA, Canada, and Europe have massive numbers of South Asians residing in them, Indian food typically is not very authentic (with few exceptions in every city) in these areas. This is mainly because people who start these restaurants were previously med school grads, or of some other professional back ground who simply could not hack it after moving to the western countries.

In short these restaurants were established out of need for survival, rarely a professional chef opens an "Indian Restaurante" here in USA. Although the trend is changing gradually.

 

[markdc]

LOL, this was supposed to be a discussion about the pros and cons of staying but turned to racism and restaurants! There are 1 or 2 ok Indian places at the Gold Coast BTW. You have to say Indian hot or medium if you want any spice though...

My delemma is that I know what I want so waiting the mandatory time before applying to my interest seems stagnating. I find the idea of working through rotations like an intern for 2-3 years frustrating. There is alot of the teach yourself mentality while being an intern, JHO etc. This varies greatly from hospital to hospital but in general I would prefer to be on a structured training program. That being said, it is hard to visualize the longer hours, lower pay and general decrease in quality of life that would occur by going back to NA to train. With Canada specifically the return of service contract is the final straw that is tipping me over.

What worries me is that med goes in cycles. Right now we are in a shortage but by the time I am a consultant, it may be the opposite. I think that most of us who plan on staying in Aus want the option to return to our prospective countries so that somewhat weighs on the decision. After this year I will have full registration in Aus. By training in Canada this would allow me to be registered in both countries with certainty.

Is anyone thinking similar thoughts?

 

[JoeNamaMD]

So do you want to stay in Canada or Australia? If you really wanted to go back to North America, I would say it would better to train in the US since there are more training spots and its less anti IMG over there compared to up North.
From what I gathered in QLD is that I will finish an intern year and then look into some registrar training programs.

 

[redshifteffect]

LOL, this was supposed to be a discussion about the pros and cons of staying but turned to racism and restaurants! There are 1 or 2 ok Indian places at the Gold Coast BTW. You have to say Indian hot or medium if you want any spice though...

My delemma is that I know what I want so waiting the mandatory time before applying to my interest seems stagnating. I find the idea of working through rotations like an intern for 2-3 years frustrating. There is alot of the teach yourself mentality while being an intern, JHO etc. This varies greatly from hospital to hospital but in general I would prefer to be on a structured training program. That being said, it is hard to visualize the longer hours, lower pay and general decrease in quality of life that would occur by going back to NA to train. With Canada specifically the return of service contract is the final straw that is tipping me over.

What worries me is that med goes in cycles. Right now we are in a shortage but by the time I am a consultant, it may be the opposite. I think that most of us who plan on staying in Aus want the option to return to our prospective countries so that somewhat weighs on the decision. After this year I will have full registration in Aus. By training in Canada this would allow me to be registered in both countries with certainty.

Is anyone thinking similar thoughts?

Training in Canada does not automatically mean you will be licensed in Australia. First of all although it's recognised they still might make you do part of your residency over again, to make it equivalent to an Australian residency, and this might include any rotations you didn't have that are required in Australia (like ICU for example for Anaesthetics), also you will have to pass all of the Australian fellowship exams (from what I understand that's Part 1 and 2 for Anaesthetics).

Also by the time you finish your training in Australia I highly doubt they will be importing IMGs (which you will be ironically) because they will have many of their own students to fill in the consultant positions. Your PR at that time will also be useless, unless you some how manage to fulfill the 2 out of 5 year requirement. So in short, if you get your citizenship and do all your training in Australia you have a very good chance of going back to Canada and then you will be registered in both countries. Doing it the other way is a lot more risker IMHO.

Also in terms of the extra rotations in Oz, seeing how things are done in other units is always going to be useful for you no matter what you do. It will also make you a more well rounded doctor in the end, and at the end of the day might make the difference in your more difficult cases in the end.

Sure you like Anaesthetics, but if you have no idea about how Emergency, ICU or the other critical care parts of the hospital system work, how good can you really be as an Anaesthetist?

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Training in Australia only seems to be longer if you are going to become a Surgeon. My preferred programs are Radiology, ENT, and Anesthaesia.

As far as economic certainty, WaMu just failed, its one of the biggest commercial banks in the US. So if you think the US will be a bedrock of financial stability, you are sorely mistaken.

Medicare and US insurance companies are a nightmare to deal with, I have seen it firsthand how much paperwork doctors in the US have to complete just to get paid.

 

[yellowmellow]

A lot of people make complaints about this and that, even Australian GPs whinge that 275k a year is not enough. Frankly very few American GPs(Family Practitioners in the USA) earn that kind of coin. A lot of Brisbane area GPs actually earn a lot more than that, I have heard of entry level assistant GP salaries starting at 200k a year working for another GP. Some good practices can net 500k a year in QLD. Few Australian doctors I have met live in poverty, actually none.


Holly S@.@!!!! Thats a lot of money. I know few GPs in Canada and I believe they are starting at 100-120K (in Vancouver). But funny thing is when I did search for average physician salary in Aus it was only 80-90K. I am not saying 80-90K is not good enough.. But it would really nice if you can pull off 200K or more!!

How about dentists in Aus?

 

[gmacpac]

FP's and Internists in USA also make $200K to $300K/yr.

The salaries of 100K is usually for those working in hospitals in inner city, or urban areas. I myself know a few GP's here in USA who are doing fine when it comes to salaries. Those in established prvt practices are probably even making more than that.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

http://www.alliedphysicians.com/salary-surveys/physicians/

Average FP salary in the US without OB is $139,000 to $239,000US. Average is
$161,000US.

Average IM salary in the US is $154,000 to $238,000. Average is $176k a year.

The vast majority of FM/IMs in the US earn around 150 to 175k a year in most major US cities. I know plenty of doctors in the US and this is the normal range of incomes for primary care physicians.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

A lot of people make complaints about this and that, even Australian GPs whinge that 275k a year is not enough. Frankly very few American GPs(Family Practitioners in the USA) earn that kind of coin. A lot of Brisbane area GPs actually earn a lot more than that, I have heard of entry level assistant GP salaries starting at 200k a year working for another GP. Some good practices can net 500k a year in QLD. Few Australian doctors I have met live in poverty, actually none.


Holly S@.@!!!! Thats a lot of money. I know few GPs in Canada and I believe they are starting at 100-120K (in Vancouver). But funny thing is when I did search for average physician salary in Aus it was only 80-90K. I am not saying 80-90K is not good enough.. But it would really nice if you can pull off 200K or more!!

How about dentists in Aus?

http://www.australiandoctor.com.au/news/3a/0c04d33a.asp

Data for Aussie GPs above. The salaries of Aussie PCPs compare favorably and are somewhat better than North American PCPs.

 

[redshifteffect]

Don't forget, overhead in the US is also higher, because you have to pay much higher malpractice insurance. Even if you made $300K a year, gross, your net would be much lower once you factor in malpractice insurance.

Then there's the added hassle of dealing with HMOs, I've heard from various doctors in the US that you lose about 25% of your income chasing them to pay you. You end up hiring a person just to recover that 25% which is about another 40K/annum lost just in salary. Plus who would want to practice medicine where someone else tells you how to treat your patient, what tests you can and can not order and what medications you can prescribe?

 

[redshifteffect]

Also keep in mind that in Canada you literally have to churn out patients because no matter how many you see you will still get paid the same amount (all government based payments). Here in Oz you have the govt payments plus you have an additional payment you can charge the patient or their insurance company based on the length/difficulty of the consult.

Believe me seeing 25-30 vs. 50+ patients in a day to make the same income is a huge difference, even if the work hours are the same. You will obviously be much more exhausted after seeing those 50 patients.

 

[JohnnyRockets]

I think I get the idea, Aussie doctors do not starve.