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I was wondering if anyone was having second thoughts about going to med school in Israel because of this current conflict?
anyone having second thoughts bc of situation in ISRAEL !!!
- Thread starter newarkpremed
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newarkpremed said:
We think and hope the situation will stabilize before school starts. We actually just left the country a day or two ago for a month when we heard the dangers were escalating. Someone I know in Haifa had a missile hit pretty close and then had to leave. We are still in the process of signing a contract for our apartment and plan to be there... but we're giving it time for now--as much as we can.
I talked to some other students who have been there for a year or more, and they are all sure about staying and can't wait to get back. We really want to be there anyhow, and besides, we might be able to help people.
it was amazing how the attitudes in Tel-Aviv Shifted so fast... on Friday I was talking to people on the street, and they just laughed off any talk of fear or danger there.. but the next day, suddenly attitudes started to change and got responses like "of course I am worried" and "tell Aviv might be hit in a couple of days." but it looks like the militants are reaching their limits...
too much to think about.
what does everyone think?
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IDFTIGER,
I have tried to look past your inflammatory posts on other threads. Please try not to respond to these threads if you have nothing constructive to say. It seems as if you are just trying to provoke animsosity.
I have tried to look past your inflammatory posts on other threads. Please try not to respond to these threads if you have nothing constructive to say. It seems as if you are just trying to provoke animsosity.
a_ditchdoc said:
Listen man, as a proud American and Israeli, I can post whatever I want when Israel is in trouble, to support ISRAEL. I don't care if you don't like my posts; don't read them if you don't want.
Everyone around me is having second thoughts for me, but Im still going. If it wasnt happening now, something was sure to happen and will still happen in the 4 years I will be there.
Such is life.
Maji
Sackler Class of 2010
Such is life.
Maji
Sackler Class of 2010
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IDFTIGER said:
It is great to support Israel, but you do not have to be inflammatory about it.
The situation in Israel is shaky right now, it has been for a while and it will be for even longer, however, if your passion for medicine is true, then this situation shouldn't stop you.
Be'er Sheva, despite its proximity to the terrorist stronghold of Gaza, is relatively safe and protected tremendously. You will realize that everytime you want to go somewhere and get searched. (which by the way I think is great)
Israel for the most part (when it is not being terrorized or subjected to being "Wiped off the face of the earth") is a very peaceful and enjoyable country. There is a lot to do see and take part in, but here you just have to be a little more intelligent about your actions, a little precaution goes a long way, but do not let it spoil your plans or your future. Giving into terror only supports terror,
as for the tiff I see forming on this thread, I would like to remind a-ditchdoc about the first ammendment and the freedom of speech, and I would also like to remind ditchdoc, that throughout studentdoctor.net there is a plethora of anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic resentment that goes unchallenged and unquestioned, so because of that I would like to ask him/her to refrain from hypocrisy and self-righteousness
thank you
Izzy
Be'er Sheva, despite its proximity to the terrorist stronghold of Gaza, is relatively safe and protected tremendously. You will realize that everytime you want to go somewhere and get searched. (which by the way I think is great)
Israel for the most part (when it is not being terrorized or subjected to being "Wiped off the face of the earth") is a very peaceful and enjoyable country. There is a lot to do see and take part in, but here you just have to be a little more intelligent about your actions, a little precaution goes a long way, but do not let it spoil your plans or your future. Giving into terror only supports terror,
as for the tiff I see forming on this thread, I would like to remind a-ditchdoc about the first ammendment and the freedom of speech, and I would also like to remind ditchdoc, that throughout studentdoctor.net there is a plethora of anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic resentment that goes unchallenged and unquestioned, so because of that I would like to ask him/her to refrain from hypocrisy and self-righteousness
thank you
Izzy
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IzzyMD09 said:
I do not think I was being a hypocrite or self righteous. I was trying to not let this threat evolve into some pissing contest. There are ways to say things without being inflammatory and I was merely trying toi point that out. Calling me a hypocrite is rather ironic considering I studied here for the past three years while he supposts Israel with his inflammatory remarks from abroad. Who's the Hypocrite? And in addition, can the tone of your last sentence be any more self righteous?
Thanks for helping to keep the thread on topic...
while he supposts Israel with his inflammatory remarks from abroad. Who's the Hypocrite?
I may be from abroad, but I'm Israeli, so I think I know the country, and the conflict a little better than you.
I may be from abroad, but I'm Israeli, so I think I know the country, and the conflict a little better than you.
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So there are 3 American medical schools in Israel. Sackler, Ben Gurion and Technion. How many students go to technion? What are they doing now since it seems that the actual school is under fire? just curious.
a_ditchdoc said:
asking you to refrain from hypocrisy is not necessarily calling you a hypocrite, I was simply trying to remind you that your comments and their placement are misleading at best, but if you feel that you are not being a hypocrite or self-righteous...at all, than I apologize for possibly offending you
I was trying to point out that what is said on these forums is monitored as is by several people, and if these are not valid points of discussion IDFTIGER would be notified regarding the situation, it is neither yours or my place to pass judgement,
and please don't take this personally, but just because you have lived in Israel (Be'er Sheva) for three years doesn't mean you understand the situation any better, I was born and raised in Israel and spent half of my life there, my girlfriend has been studying Israeli politics and International relations for a few years but has only been to Israel twice, and she knows way more about the situation than I do
Izzy
alx943 said:
I am not sure about Technion or Sackler, I know the incoming class at BGU has been delayed a week, but beyond that I am positive it is back to the usual in Be'er Sheva, I am sure its the same in Tel Aviv, Technion which is in Haifa is a different story, you would have to check out there website for that
Izzy
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IzzyMD09 said:
They have been delayed a week at BGU? what does that mean? they came late or are coming late by air? Are they there but just not starting?
Everything at Sackler is scheduled to go on as usual--starting Aug 17th for orientation.
alx943 said:
The letter from Carmi made it sound like the group flight was delayed a week, I am not sure about the actual programming, but i am sure this wont effect the actual class schedule, just might jumble up some orientation stuff
izzy
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I went to Sackler when the second intifada started. From what I'm seeing on the news and hearing from other people, it was worse then that it is now. We were having shootings in Tel Aviv every day for a month that first summer.
Some people left but most of us stayed. To note, a single Sackler American program student has never been killed by terrorism in Israel. Don't ride buses, take taxis (for awhile the school was paying for our taxis) or better yet buy a car. Be careful going to the market. But you can still walk alone on the street at 4 am and feel very safe.
I feel safer in Tel Aviv than I do in many U.S. cities. I don't think I'd feel safe in Haifa right now. Life in Israel goes on.
Some people left but most of us stayed. To note, a single Sackler American program student has never been killed by terrorism in Israel. Don't ride buses, take taxis (for awhile the school was paying for our taxis) or better yet buy a car. Be careful going to the market. But you can still walk alone on the street at 4 am and feel very safe.
I feel safer in Tel Aviv than I do in many U.S. cities. I don't think I'd feel safe in Haifa right now. Life in Israel goes on.
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alx943 said:
As of now about 23 pple are enrolled in technion and it is interesting that the numbers are increasing everyday.
Technion's ulpans were suppose to start in a week, but they cancelled them. the classes always start in oct. so there is a little while until then
BGU Medical School for International Health has enrolled its largest class to date
46 students beating last years class by 2 people
So as you can see life goes on as usual, despite terrorism
which is the point
46 students beating last years class by 2 people
So as you can see life goes on as usual, despite terrorism
which is the point
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IzzyMD09 said:
On one hand, well, maybe three to four fingers, I think that it is great to show resolve despite terrorism. If it is true like most of is think that this is terrorism, then yes! no matter what, we should not let terrorism run our lives. And I think it is brave and even a standard that will inspire others in the world to live up to that we go on with our lives even though they want us to be afraid and run and hide.
On a few other fingers, (the remaining fingers are sitting on the fence). I really believe that coming to Israel takes faith. Perhaps it is Zionism (and all that the God of Zionism entails) or faith in the Christian God who is your protection and refuge no matter what "physical circumstances" may be. Perhaps it is faith in yourself to become a doctor no matter what. Perhaps it is faith that the goodness of human nature will prevail. Whatever it is for you, I believe that faith is the only reason that people are willing to move to a volatile place like this. WE believe in something--or so it seems.
However, maybe some of us are just so analytical that the statistical evaluation of "perceived danger" has not yet reached a threshold by which to change course--at least for the time being. After all, we are talking about "pre-meds."
Whatever the reason, many have decided to come to Israel for a quality medical education despite "terrorism." On so many levels I applaud us, yet my claps are tempered with the realization that in times like these we examine our inner selves to find if our motives are pure.
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So, BGU people, what's the word? Has the new class started? Did you have many dropouts? Or, did 46 people really show up?
secretwave101 said:
Not only did all 46 students show up....but from what I have heard from my classmate/student council chairperson is that they are having a kick-ass happy action fun time during orientation, and everyone is really looking forward to start their first year
I am so impressed that they all showed up, even though they had no reason not to, with 44 last year ...
I mean im not math expert but thats 92 kids thats a lot
BGU is growing fast and growing strong, and no offense to my class but i heard these kids are wicked smart and will give us a run for the money
yay for BGU and yay for school
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Few comments:
* This forum is really not the place for politics, except as they relate to healthcare issues. If you want to praise Zionist Israel or apartheid South Africa or Nazi Germany, there are websites for you all up and down the Internet. This space is for medical stuff. Free speech does not mean any speech, any where.
* Statistically speaking, Israel is a very safe place. You chances of dying at the hands of a religious fundementalist praticing terrorism (the IAF, rather than Hezbollah) are much greater in Gaza, or the West Bank, or Lebanon. Thousands are dying there, not dozens. Real death and destruction come from hanging around with the brown people, not from the paper cut that is the Arab response to Israeli terror.
* If I wanted to go to medical school in Israel (I am actually looking for opportunities in Gaza) it would be because I identified with the people there and their endless struggle to "Keep China British!" as it were. If that were so, it wouldn't discourage me at all to face for a few years the comparably tiny risk of being hurt in an attack. If, on the other hand, you don't identify with them -- why put yourself in the middle of that, even if there were no risk to you personally? Decide where you stand, and live your decision.
* This forum is really not the place for politics, except as they relate to healthcare issues. If you want to praise Zionist Israel or apartheid South Africa or Nazi Germany, there are websites for you all up and down the Internet. This space is for medical stuff. Free speech does not mean any speech, any where.
* Statistically speaking, Israel is a very safe place. You chances of dying at the hands of a religious fundementalist praticing terrorism (the IAF, rather than Hezbollah) are much greater in Gaza, or the West Bank, or Lebanon. Thousands are dying there, not dozens. Real death and destruction come from hanging around with the brown people, not from the paper cut that is the Arab response to Israeli terror.
* If I wanted to go to medical school in Israel (I am actually looking for opportunities in Gaza) it would be because I identified with the people there and their endless struggle to "Keep China British!" as it were. If that were so, it wouldn't discourage me at all to face for a few years the comparably tiny risk of being hurt in an attack. If, on the other hand, you don't identify with them -- why put yourself in the middle of that, even if there were no risk to you personally? Decide where you stand, and live your decision.
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QuikClot said:
For someone who wants to keep politics out of this forum, you sure did a nice job expressing your opinion.
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QuikClot said:
Don't see why this response is getting so much flack. Just an honest opinion. Maybe a little contradictory, but give the guy a break.
It's about a week old, but I just saw this posted on valuemd:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1154525861048&pagename=JPost/JPArt icle%2FShowFull
GLOBAL MED STUDENTS IN BEERSHEBA
The current security crisis has not deterred 46 foreign medical students who are beginning their studies at the Ben-Gurion University of the Negev Faculty of Health Sciences' Medical School for International Health, in collaboration with Columbia University Medical Center (BGUCU MSIH).
The MSIH's class of 2010, who have begun their classes on the Beersheba campus, includes men and women from the US, Canada, Poland, Germany, Israel, Belarus, Brazil, Russia, Malawi, Austria, India, South Korea, the Fiji Islands, Venezuela and Nigeria. They will spend their first three years studying global health issues. During the fourth year, students may take up to five months of clinical electives at Columbia's affiliated hospitals in New York, and must complete a two-month hands-on clinical clerkship in locations such as Kenya, Ethiopia, India, Nepal, Peru and Vietnam.
In addition to its four-year American-style curriculum, the MSIH integrates subjects such as infectious diseases, nutrition and disease prevention, humanitarian emergencies, cross-cultural competencies and community health. Students receive the training essential to practice medicine in varied cultural settings and clinical conditions; skills that will help them pursue careers in global health and population-based medicine. The MSIH is a unique medical school that prepares physicians to work with populations throughout the globe. Now in its ninth year, the program has enrolled more than 100 students from around the world, and counts two Palestinian-Americans among its alumni. Graduates are now doing residency training and fellowships at over 70 leading medical centers in the US. After completing residency training, alumni are expected to make significant contributions to global health through clinical work, policy development and medical education.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1154525861048&pagename=JPost/JPArt icle%2FShowFull
GLOBAL MED STUDENTS IN BEERSHEBA
The current security crisis has not deterred 46 foreign medical students who are beginning their studies at the Ben-Gurion University of the Negev Faculty of Health Sciences' Medical School for International Health, in collaboration with Columbia University Medical Center (BGUCU MSIH).
The MSIH's class of 2010, who have begun their classes on the Beersheba campus, includes men and women from the US, Canada, Poland, Germany, Israel, Belarus, Brazil, Russia, Malawi, Austria, India, South Korea, the Fiji Islands, Venezuela and Nigeria. They will spend their first three years studying global health issues. During the fourth year, students may take up to five months of clinical electives at Columbia's affiliated hospitals in New York, and must complete a two-month hands-on clinical clerkship in locations such as Kenya, Ethiopia, India, Nepal, Peru and Vietnam.
In addition to its four-year American-style curriculum, the MSIH integrates subjects such as infectious diseases, nutrition and disease prevention, humanitarian emergencies, cross-cultural competencies and community health. Students receive the training essential to practice medicine in varied cultural settings and clinical conditions; skills that will help them pursue careers in global health and population-based medicine. The MSIH is a unique medical school that prepares physicians to work with populations throughout the globe. Now in its ninth year, the program has enrolled more than 100 students from around the world, and counts two Palestinian-Americans among its alumni. Graduates are now doing residency training and fellowships at over 70 leading medical centers in the US. After completing residency training, alumni are expected to make significant contributions to global health through clinical work, policy development and medical education.
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secretwave101 said:
Give the guy a break? He just compared "zionist Israel" to Nazi Germany and Apartheid South Africa. That's what we called ignorant extremism. Also, if he knew anything, he'd know the IAF (Israeli air force) is comprised of the most secular people in Israel. Thank you, indymedia.org reading *****.
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"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
-- David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.
"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
-- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.
"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
-- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
Just some quotations ; some from Ben-Gurion's biography...to illustrate just the kind of place Israel is. Its a shame they named a medical school after that terrorist.
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
-- David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.
"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
-- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.
"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
-- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
dopaminesurge said:
Just some quotations ; some from Ben-Gurion's biography...to illustrate just the kind of place Israel is. Its a shame they named a medical school after that terrorist.
Macguyver83 said:
I try not to waste my time on political stuff, and I won't say a whole lot, but with such misinformation in the above post, I just have to respond. A lot of those quotes above are either taken out of context (probably to fit your agenda or some other author's), or are just plain fabricated.
I'll just give a couple examples:
Macguyver83 said:
That was your quote, but you omitted the part right before which was
"we bought the lands from the Arabs, Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages..."
Furthermore, it was a quote by Moshe Dayan from 1969, responding to a student's question suggesting that Israel adopt a policy of punishing Arabs who commit crimes in the West Bank by deportation to Jordan. Dayan's answer (the above quote was part of it) represented his stance, being in opposition to this idea and insisting that the answer to the Arab-Israeli conflict is to learn to live together with Arab neighbors.
Another quote of yours:
Macguyver83 said:
The quote, unfortunately, has been hacked up and mistranslated by people like yourself. It has been debunked, but it is still frequently used to propagate hatred. Here is the actual quote in correct translation:
We do not wish, we do not need to expel Arabs and take their place All our aspiration is built on the assumption that there is enough room in the country for ourselves and the Arabs.
Okay, I'm done for now. Back to talking about medicine (hopefully).
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How about the facts that Israel is an Apartheid state which trangresses human rights....
Israel has developed an elaborate system of racial discrimination, embedded in its legal system, exceeding Apartheid South Africa's laws. These laws include the Law of Entry, the Law of Return, the Citizenship Law, the Military Service Law, the Law of Acquisition of Absentee Property, the Law for Acquisition of Land, and a host of legally sanctioned, discriminatory rabbinical rulings.
According to B'Tselem, the Israeli Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories, 1059 of the Palestinians killed from September 29, 2000 though July 20, 2002 were civilians. In comparison, 360 Israeli civilians were killed by Palestinians during this period, in Israel and the Occupied Territories combined. There were also over 108 extra-judicial assassinations of Palestinians during this period -- a war crime according to the Hague Convention of 1907.
nder UN Resolution 242, Israel is required by international law to withdraw from all the territories occupied in 1967, including East Jerusalem. The United Nation's General Assembly has repeatedly condemned Israel's occupation of
the territories as illegal (see UN resolutions 338, 1397, and 1402, among others). Israel's continued occupation of Palestine, sanctioned and maintained by the US, is one of the most serious obstructions to a just and lasting peace in the Middle East.
"You must end the illegal occupation."
Kofi Annan, addressing Israel in a meeting of the UN Security Council, March 12, 2002
Since the creation of the United Nations in 1945, no country has violated as many UN Security Council Resolutions as the state of Israel. In spite of this fact, Israel, a country slightly smaller than the state of New Jersey, receives nearly 1/3 of the entire annual US Foreign Aid budget.
I will end with this quote from the great Nobel Laureate Archbishop Desmond Tutu:
"I am a black South African, and if I were to change the names, a description of what is happening in the Gaza Strip and West Bank could describe events in South Africa."
-Archbishop Desmond Tutu
Israel has developed an elaborate system of racial discrimination, embedded in its legal system, exceeding Apartheid South Africa's laws. These laws include the Law of Entry, the Law of Return, the Citizenship Law, the Military Service Law, the Law of Acquisition of Absentee Property, the Law for Acquisition of Land, and a host of legally sanctioned, discriminatory rabbinical rulings.
According to B'Tselem, the Israeli Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories, 1059 of the Palestinians killed from September 29, 2000 though July 20, 2002 were civilians. In comparison, 360 Israeli civilians were killed by Palestinians during this period, in Israel and the Occupied Territories combined. There were also over 108 extra-judicial assassinations of Palestinians during this period -- a war crime according to the Hague Convention of 1907.
nder UN Resolution 242, Israel is required by international law to withdraw from all the territories occupied in 1967, including East Jerusalem. The United Nation's General Assembly has repeatedly condemned Israel's occupation of
the territories as illegal (see UN resolutions 338, 1397, and 1402, among others). Israel's continued occupation of Palestine, sanctioned and maintained by the US, is one of the most serious obstructions to a just and lasting peace in the Middle East.
"You must end the illegal occupation."
Kofi Annan, addressing Israel in a meeting of the UN Security Council, March 12, 2002
Since the creation of the United Nations in 1945, no country has violated as many UN Security Council Resolutions as the state of Israel. In spite of this fact, Israel, a country slightly smaller than the state of New Jersey, receives nearly 1/3 of the entire annual US Foreign Aid budget.
I will end with this quote from the great Nobel Laureate Archbishop Desmond Tutu:
"I am a black South African, and if I were to change the names, a description of what is happening in the Gaza Strip and West Bank could describe events in South Africa."
-Archbishop Desmond Tutu
DPPM said:
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Macguyver, weren't you the one who just a few posts above was asking others not to turn this forum into a political debate? There are other places for your comments, and an SDN forum on medical schools is not one of them. Please take your comments elsewhere, as they are not only offensive, but also inappropriate. Thank you.
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I didnt waste my time reading all what sent above.
ooooooooooooooooof...
no one can easly understand what happend here if he dont live here
ooooooooooooooooof...
no one can easly understand what happend here if he dont live here
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The above posts are correct. Please leave political discussion and propaganda out of these forums.
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not a math or a spelling expert
anyways i think its even less then that now,
still 46 in the first year class, plus 42 in the second year class, which if im not mistaken makes it 88
someone double check me though
izzy
anyways i think its even less then that now,
still 46 in the first year class, plus 42 in the second year class, which if im not mistaken makes it 88
someone double check me though
izzy
