Anyone here match IM with a lower than average level/step 1?

[qqw]

Just curious in hearing if your path to IM was rocky due to your board score, what you did to succeed, things you did to better your options.

I got a 422 on COMLEX level 1. I believe that's 10th percentile. It makes me cringe, but that's what I got.

I'm considering IM. I'm interested in programs on the western part of the country. Beyond that, I have no preferences.

I'm working hard to do my absolute best on level 2, hopefully that means 500+, and hopefully that will make up for level 1 in the PD's eyes.

Other than that, what should my strategy be as far as applying and doing audition rotations to maximize my chances?

Thanks.

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[ArkansasMed]

Depends on the rest of your application and where you applied. Complex score is only half the battle, however, most allio residency have no clue what the complex score means (including myself) and you'd do yourself justice taking step 1 and crushing it. Easier said than done.

 

[deleted392989]

Just curious in hearing if your path to IM was rocky due to your board score, what you did to succeed, things you did to better your options.

I got a 422 on COMLEX level 1. I believe that's 10th percentile. It makes me cringe, but that's what I got.

I'm considering IM. I'm interested in programs on the western part of the country. Beyond that, I have no preferences.

I'm working hard to do my absolute best on level 2, hopefully that means 500+, and hopefully that will make up for level 1 in the PD's eyes.

Other than that, what should my strategy be as far as applying and doing audition rotations to maximize my chances?

Thanks.

I'm going to assume you are talking about DO programs on the western part. Most DO programs, especially the more desirable programs due to location or quality of education, require auditions from students to secure interviews. Board scores are not as heavily emphasized at these programs. They emphasize teamwork, attitude, and ability to learn as the more favorable attributes for their candidates. You should still do better on your COMLEX 2, but it's not the end of the world for you in terms of the osteopathic match. I would also apply very broadly as you could get interviews at some quality DO programs in non-desirable locations.

I would definitely rule out the MD match though. I have classmates who have much better COMLEX scores but were not able to secure enough MD interviews to rank to match.

 

[Crayola227]

The West is awfully competitive in terms of desirability of locations.

Crush step 1.

Apply VERY broadly, and apply to ****holes no one wants to live in, community programs, even FMG mills. Sure, include some dream places and mid-range places, apply for what you want. It's not mutually exclusive but limited by your budget. Where I would blow the money is # of places applied to, so that you can be sure to include enough safeties.

 

[qqw]

Depends on the rest of your application and where you applied. Complex score is only half the battle, however, most allio residency have no clue what the complex score means (including myself)

Rest of my app is average I guess. No red flags. Passed all my classes easily. Will more than likely pass all rotations as well.
3 work experiences. 1 significant medical research project in undergrad with abstract.

Not sure how my score translates into the usmle. Id guess around 200.

 

[qqw]

I'm going to assume you are talking about DO programs on the western part. Most DO programs, especially the more desirable programs due to location or quality of education, require auditions from students to secure interviews. Board scores are not as heavily emphasized at these programs. They emphasize teamwork, attitude, and ability to learn as the more favorable attributes for their candidates. You should still do better on your COMLEX 2, but it's not the end of the world for you in terms of the osteopathic match. I would also apply very broadly as you could get interviews at some quality DO programs in non-desirable locations.

I would definitely rule out the MD match though. I have classmates who have much better COMLEX scores but were not able to secure enough MD interviews to rank to match.

Yes, I was talking about the DO programs. But, now with the merger by 2017, maybe things will change? Hope not.

I was planning to do 3-4 audition rotations in places I really want, and applying broadly to other places. Is that ok or should I do at least one audition at a "safety" to secure it?

Thanks for the advice.

 

[qqw]

The West is awfully competitive in terms of desirability of locations.

Crush step 1.

Apply VERY broadly, and apply to ****holes no one wants to live in, community programs, even FMG mills. Sure, include some dream places and mid-range places, apply for what you want. It's not mutually exclusive but limited by your budget. Where I would blow the money is # of places applied to, so that you can be sure to include enough safeties.

I assume you meant crush Step 2 (level 2)?

How do we find out which programs are FMG mills?

I will definitely apply broadly with many safeties. Thanks

 

[Crayola227]

USMLE Step 2

look on SDN, look at programs websites to see where they have a good amount of DO and FMG residents listed, google to find out

 

[blub1212]

Just as a point of reference for you, I scored 210/236 coming from an MD medical school. Average stats otherwise, one honors in 3rd year. Applied to 52 programs, mostly midwest with a good mix. II to 17 (about 75% University, 25% Community)

 

[Crayola227]

Just as a point of reference for you, I scored 210/236 coming from an MD medical school. Average stats otherwise, one honors in 3rd year. Applied to 52 programs, mostly midwest with a good mix. II to 17 (about 75% University, 25% Community)

Yes, but what is your breakdown on the percentage applied university & community and what you netted?

I'm not following your math, my bad I'm sure.

Based on what you say, 52 programs sounds right, but 75% Universtiy and 25% community doesn't sound conservative enough, unless what you are saying is that you got 11 univ invites and 17 community invites or vice versa from your approach in which case I say kudos on your strategy.

I would have done maybe a third or so community programs with those stats and grades personally but I'm a very risk averse person.

For this DO with this score, I agree they should look at what you have posted and be even more conservative. Thank you for sharing.

 

[blub1212]

Yes, but what is your breakdown on the percentage applied university & community and what you netted?

I'm not following your math, my bad I'm sure.

Based on what you say, 52 programs sounds right, but 75% Universtiy and 25% community doesn't sound conservative enough, unless what you are saying is that you got 11 univ invites and 17 community invites or vice versa from your approach in which case I say kudos on your strategy.

I would have done maybe a third or so community programs with those stats and grades personally but I'm a very risk averse person.

For this DO with this score, I agree they should look at what you have posted and be even more conservative. Thank you for sharing.

Sorry I wasn't more clear.

Applied to a total of 52 programs, mostly midwest with a couple sprinkled in other places. 17 were community programs, 35 were university programs

Received a total of 17 invites. 13 were university, 4 were community

I'm still in the interview process this year, but I just wanted to give the OP a rough estimate of what it is like for an MD applicant this cycle.

 

[drranjit]

Sorry I wasn't more clear.

Applied to a total of 52 programs, mostly midwest with a couple sprinkled in other places. 17 were community programs, 35 were university programs

Received a total of 17 invites. 13 were university, 4 were community

I'm still in the interview process this year, but I just wanted to give the OP a rough estimate of what it is like for an MD applicant this cycle.

Thank you for sharing your experience, @blub1212, really appreciate it. I'm also a US-MS4, not applying this cycle as Im taking a research year.

1) To have a better sense of the competitiveness of IM nowadays, would you mind me asking what your grades were on your IM clerkships and IM sub-i?

2) Also, looking at Freida, I see a bunch of programs with a Step 1 score cutoff of 220 (particularly the academic programs). Did you end up applying to programs with a Step 1 score cutoff higher than your actual score, and if so, were you successful in getting interviews from these places? My step 1 was 212, and I feel like the majority of programs on Freida have a higher step 1 cutoff, which is pretty scary.

Thank you so much, and best of luck for the match!

 

[Crayola227]

Thank you for sharing your experience, @blub1212, really appreciate it. I'm also a US-MS4, not applying this cycle as Im taking a research year.

1) To have a better sense of the competitiveness of IM nowadays, would you mind me asking what your grades were on your IM clerkships and IM sub-i?

2) Also, looking at Freida, I see a bunch of programs with a Step 1 score cutoff of 220 (particularly the academic programs). Did you end up applying to programs with a Step 1 score cutoff higher than your actual score, and if so, were you successful in getting interviews from these places? My step 1 was 212, and I feel like the majority of programs on Freida have a higher step 1 cutoff, which is pretty scary.

Thank you so much, and best of luck for the match!

Might want to doublecheck with someone like @aProgDirector but the places with a score cut off like that I imagine uses that in their electronic ERAS filter, which would mean your app is never even downloaded or considered, in which case you just wasted $35 to apply.

But sure, go ahead I guess, especially if you're having a hard time finding enough programs to apply to without such cutoffs and you just need to play the numbers game in terms of # of programs applied to (I can't imagine that's the case, I think you need to aim lower and NOT at an academic program with a stated cutoff unless geography is forcing you to, there are plenty of lower tier programs to apply to).

Not to mention to be honest in medicine there is a trend that anyone who appears not to be following basic instructions is not looked on favorably. For example, if the website says do not email the PD, and you do (without being told to by the PC or after interviewing or whatever) that is bad. So if the cutoff is 220 and you apply with a 212 and contact the program, I hope you have a very compelling reason to offer them why they should consider you anyway.

 

[blub1212]

Thank you for sharing your experience, @blub1212, really appreciate it. I'm also a US-MS4, not applying this cycle as Im taking a research year.

1) To have a better sense of the competitiveness of IM nowadays, would you mind me asking what your grades were on your IM clerkships and IM sub-i?

2) Also, looking at Freida, I see a bunch of programs with a Step 1 score cutoff of 220 (particularly the academic programs). Did you end up applying to programs with a Step 1 score cutoff higher than your actual score, and if so, were you successful in getting interviews from these places? My step 1 was 212, and I feel like the majority of programs on Freida have a higher step 1 cutoff, which is pretty scary.

Thank you so much, and best of luck for the match!

1) Only clerkship I honored M3 year was Psych. Honored Sub-I, but my school doesn't include M4 grades in transcript when it is sent to ERAS

2) I only applied to programs that either didn't have a minimum score or had a minimum score under mine. There are a lot of programs that have an average score range that was 221-240. I applied to several of those, and had 3 interviews from them. There are actually quite a few programs with no minimum or a minimum under your score of 212, you just have to not really care where you end up geographically.

 

[spicysoup55]

What about a score of <210? What are examples of programs that would be possible? (if at all?)

I'm at a top 30ish med school with pass/fail in the preclinical years. Just starting 3rd year now and trying to do better.

Would love to hear experiences and get some inspiration from those who were able to match with lower step scores.

 

[Moose A Moose]

Just as a point of reference for you, I scored 210/236 coming from an MD medical school. Average stats otherwise, one honors in 3rd year. Applied to 52 programs, mostly midwest with a good mix. II to 17 (about 75% University, 25% Community)

Damn, that seems like a lot, but I'm not well versed on what it's like to apply to residency programs just yet. Is it more straight-forward in comparison to medical school applications? If they're similar, this sounds to be a major pain in the ass.

 

[swlabr1980]

I matched IM at a solid university program with a Step 1 barely above 200 a few years ago. Scoring much higher on Step 2, having great recommendation letters, and being a great interviewee helped a lot, though.

 

[blub1212]

Damn, that seems like a lot, but I'm not well versed on what it's like to apply to residency programs just yet. Is it more straight-forward in comparison to medical school applications? If they're similar, this sounds to be a major pain in the ass.

The ERAS application is similar to the AMCAS application, but you don't have to worry about secondaries which is really nice. Most people that I know in my class going in to IM applied to 40-50 programs. Our advisors told us that is what we should do. While on the interview trail I found that about half of the applicants were told to apply to a similar number of programs and about half were told to apply to very little programs (like around 10-15). After going through the process, I think I over applied. But with a step 1 score that was 16 points under the average for IM applicants that matched in 2015, no research, no publications, and only one presentation..... I personally believe it is better to over apply than to have to SOAP.

 

[spicysoup55]

Definitely agree that applying to a lot of programs is the way to go. What are some specific programs that would look at someone with a sub 210 score?

 

[lulu09]

What about a score of <210? What are examples of programs that would be possible? (if at all?)

I'm at a top 30ish med school with pass/fail in the preclinical years. Just starting 3rd year now and trying to do better.

Would love to hear experiences and get some inspiration from those who were able to match with lower step scores.

There's a few things you should know:

1) the prestige of your school will help
2) you need to be willing to apply broadly (geographical and mix of community and academic)
3) you need to be willing to apply to 30+ programs
4) take CK early (before your apps go in), and aim for at least 230+ or ideally 240+

I matched with 205, coming from a top 20 med school, to a solid mid-tier academic program. Mix of P/HP during third year, no honors. Improved significantly on CK.

You're just starting out 3rd year so you don't have to worry about specific programs yet, but very generally you should be applying about a 70-30 split to academic-community programs, more community if you straight pass third year and don't improve significantly on CK. If you don't have to match in California, you will match an academic program almost anywhere else in the country. Sorry to break the news to you, but most of the "name brand" "top 30" programs discussed on SDN will be out with a <210 step (unless you somehow honor everything during 3rd year/make AOA, shoot up immensely on CK, or have some crazy research). For sure apply, but you need to know that you should aim for the stars with the understanding that most likely you'll be on the ground, but it'll still be solid ground. The biggest factors now are your 3rd year grades and CK, so try to make them count.