Anyone read their Letters of Recommendation?

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kinetochore84

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So let's say you are really curious as to this one letter of recommendation...basically it's the only one that's really up in the air that you have no idea the quality of it (whether its good or bad)

Any ideas on how you would proceed to obtain permission to read the letter? Ask nicely? any ideas?

What have you guys done? :)
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You don't have to if you wrote for the professor.

Btw, this happens way too often. The app process can be very dishonest sometimes, like when your EC's add up to > 24*7 hours a week.

Bring back the heavily weighted interviews and mock situations.

To OP, I would just ask.
 
out of 6, i read 5 (i wrote 2 myself).
 
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How the heck does that work?
You draft the letter yourself and then have the proff sign it?

I can't imagine how to approach that.
"Here, sign this, I'll be your friend..."
 
soco said:
The app process can be very dishonest sometimes.
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True, but how does simply reading a letter bring dishonesty to the app process. Of course it isn't right to read a letter written under the guise of confidentiality, but just reading it doesn't change anything if it's already been submitted.

I would also just ask the professor, that is really the only option.

Incitatus, profs will sometimes ask you to write the LOR for them if they are too busy. At least, that's what I've heard.
 
I wrote one of mine. It was for a doctor that I know relatively well. He didn't want to write it because he was too busy. I didn't really want to write it either. How am I supposed to know what to write? Anyway, I wrote it, and he checked it, changed and added a few things, gave it back to my husband (who works in his practice as a tech), husband gave it back to me, I read it again, gave it back to my husband who faxed it out from the office the next day.
As said before, I would have prefered him to write it, and he could have changed the whole thing if he wanted to, so I don't feel guilty about it.
 
A professor I work with just gave me a sheet with some things he wanted included because he said they are what adcoms want to hear (he's been on the adcom at my school for 45 years) and told me to fill in the rest. He proofed it signed it and I sent it out.

From what I've picked up on, this is seen as the highest form of respect between recommender-recommended
 
kinetochore84 said:
So let's say you are really curious as to this one letter of recommendation...basically it's the only one that's really up in the air that you have no idea the quality of it (whether its good or bad)

Any ideas on how you would proceed to obtain permission to read the letter? Ask nicely? any ideas?

What have you guys done? :)
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You can ask to read it, but then it should be made obvious to the med schools you applied to that you have had access to the letter (for instance, by having the writer adding a sentence expressing that).

If you have no idea of the quality of the letter, though, you should find another letter writer. If you think that person may not write a good letter, it is a bad idea to ask them.
 
I got to read a letter from my research advisor which was written for my summer job applications junior year. The format of application submission preferred applicants to send everything in themselves. :rolleyes: I told my recommender that it would certainly be fine if he would rather submit it himself, but I also told him that, verbatim according to the application instructions, it would be easier if I just faxed it all in at once. He didn't care at all and sent me the letter. I imagine that he rewrote it for my med school applications, but the sentiment/tone/light in which he painted me was probably much the same.

Personally, I think it's bad form to ask to read a letter BEFORE it's been submitted, but asking nicely after it's been submitted seems just fine. However, if the professor says no, don't worry too much. It doesn't necessarily mean he wrote you a less than stellar letter; He could just take confidentiality in LORs very seriously on principle.

Hope this helps.:)

~Silk and Steel
 
Just curious: has anyone actually had a bad letter of recommendation? If someone is worried about their professor/advisor/boss writing them a letter that's at best neutral, wouldn't it be best to ask someone else? Actually, would any professor write a bad letter? I would think they would have the decency to make up an excuse if they didn't have anything good to write.
 
For the OP, I would say, just ask them! The worst they can say is no. And if they say no then you're exactly right where you are now, minus wondering if you can read it.

As for getting good/bad/neutral letter, I think the key is to ask the prof/doc/whoever if they would be able to write you a GOOD letter. If you ask them that and emphasize good/outstanding, at least at my school they are very willing to either say yes or to tell you that they aren't sure they could write you a good one. Unless they have to agenda on you to keep you from med school they aren't going to want to write anything but a good letter for you. But that's just what I've found to be true. :)
 
JennyB said:
Just curious: has anyone actually had a bad letter of recommendation? If someone is worried about their professor/advisor/boss writing them a letter that's at best neutral, wouldn't it be best to ask someone else? Actually, would any professor write a bad letter? I would think they would have the decency to make up an excuse if they didn't have anything good to write.
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Well for me I'd be interested in reading some letters not b/c the person had bad things to say, but due to:

Grammer (person has trouble w/ the english language & writing, and is old now and forgetful.. and I didn't use this letter due to fear of this)
Curiousity (just wanted to see what good things they have to say about me!)
 
Rocket3004 said:
Well for me I'd be interested in reading some letters not b/c the person had bad things to say, but due to:

Grammer (person has trouble w/ the english language & writing, and is old now and forgetful.. and I didn't use this letter due to fear of this)
Curiousity (just wanted to see what good things they have to say about me!)
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Isn't it funny how you can insult someone's english and writing, yet the two things you want to check your letter for, grammar and curiosity, you can't even spell correctly yourself? I'm not sure your "proofreading" would help the letter ;)
 
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12loser12 said:
Isn't it funny how you can insult someone's english and writing, yet the two things you want to check your letter for, grammar and curiosity, you can't even spell correctly yourself? I'm not sure your "proofreading" would help the letter ;)
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I wan't insulting anyone... sorry if you took it personally.

I wasn't insulting their English. From personal experience and communication, I wouldn't be suprised if there were a few mistakes. I wouldn't want to proofread it, just read it.

...and this is a forum, not a polished letter. I try to spell as best as possible, but I understand if it's not perfect. I hope you don't think whatever I write here is a reflection of my abilties.
 
I have 8 letters and I was only using about 6 of them..... out of the 6, 4 are two pages long....

the one im curious about *by the way I am the OP*, is a research one....it's not that he would write a bad one...its just I don't know how stellar it is...and its only 1 page which made me even more suspicious...

i cant just NOT send the research one...everyone sends research =)
 
kinetochore84 said:
I have 8 letters and I was only using about 6 of them..... out of the 6, 4 are two pages long....

the one im curious about *by the way I am the OP*, is a research one....it's not that he would write a bad one...its just I don't know how stellar it is...and its only 1 page which made me even more suspicious...

i cant just NOT send the research one...everyone sends research =)
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my non-science letter writer sent me a copy despite the fact that I signed away my right to see it. Basically the whole thing was about the quality of my artwork. rather amusing.
 
JennyB said:
Actually, would any professor write a bad letter? I would think they would have the decency to make up an excuse if they didn't have anything good to write.
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I think it's more rare than folks on SDN fear. I used to teach at a community college and had students ask me for LORs all the time.

No one likes writing bad LORs. There's nothing for the writer to gain and it takes up precious time. The only reason to write them at all is to help out the applicant.

If you ask a prof if s/he'd be willing to write a "strong" LOR, they'll give you an honest answer. I'm sure there are one or two freaks out there who sabotage, but they must be very, very rare.
 
maestro1625 said:
my non-science letter writer sent me a copy despite the fact that I signed away my right to see it. Basically the whole thing was about the quality of my artwork. rather amusing.
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Writing a rec for myself was one of the hardest things i did during this app process. It was much tougher than any essay or the PS, mainly because it's tough embellishing what you do without constraint.
 
I agree....

I personally know of a person at a UC Davis interview where the person pulled out his letter of rec and there was a sentence that was negative.

It does happens...that story kinda freaked me out.
 
over the course of eight interviews, 12 or so faculty interviewers, my pdf'd letters of recs were often left on the faculty member's computer monitors or splayed out on the dude's desk. it wasn't too hard to peer over their shoulders to read the junk off of the computer. as a result, it's not too much of a task to piece together everything written about you.
 
At my university our Health Professions Office (HPO) don't allow you to read the letters of reccomendation. Sorry scratch that, they RECCOMMEND that you don't read the LORs. With our LORs we have a piece of paper with the instructions on how the professor/ T.A. are supposed to write the letter, and there's a place where you sign saying that you give up your right to read the LOR. When you give the LOR to the prof/TA you have to also give them an envelope with the HPO address on it so it gets delievered there. Then you never see it again.

Our advisors tell us that it is better that we do not read them. The advisors take the best ones and make a composite letter summing up everything that each professor said (including the ones that aren't the best) and send that with the best 3 (i think it's 3, fairly new to the process). So we never get to seen them.

But I don't think I would like to see mine, only because I am very self-conscious. But that's just me. :)
 
I had 14 letters- 2 I drafted and then the professors made changes/additions, 3 others I was shown by the professors.

I would find out through the grapevine at your school what each professor's policy is with letters and go from there. Almost every pre-med com requires that you waive your right to read the letters on the belief that the professors will be more honest then.
 
Wow, your recommenders really showed you your recs?!

For all I know my recs could just be them bashing me, haha. Well, not really since the two professors I didn't know too well promised it wouldn't be negative. And if the professor I spoke with for 3 years and whose recommendation got me my current job wrote a bad recommendation I'd be REALLY surprised, since that was the only recommendation that was sent in to for the job.

Heh, my prof rules (the one I spoke with for years), since I never wrote him a thank you note and he never refused a rec (I did buy him a welcome back card though after he got injured).
 
vtucci said:
I had 14 letters- 2 I drafted and then the professors made changes/additions, 3 others I was shown by the professors.

I would find out through the grapevine at your school what each professor's policy is with letters and go from there. Almost every pre-med com requires that you waive your right to read the letters on the belief that the professors will be more honest then.
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Holy crap...you had 14 letters?! But...why?! Most adcoms won't read 14 letters.
 
To those of you that cheated and wrote their own rec - this will be the case for me too :p - how did you write your letters? Also, what should I do to get a chance to read a letter from my old PI?
 
Incitatus said:
How the heck does that work?
You draft the letter yourself and then have the proff sign it?

I can't imagine how to approach that.
"Here, sign this, I'll be your friend..."
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Yup, exactly. My research PI is really really busy and hates writing letters, but she still wants to help her undergrads get into grad/med school... and I know she has allowed some of her undergrads to write their own letters, and she just read and signed it. So yeah, like other people here are saying, it happens.

Since my personal lab mentor is a postdoctoral researcher and NOT the lab PI, it was my mentor wrote my letter for me and my PI just cosigned it... so I don't have to live with a guilty conscience :thumbup:
 
Aerith said:
Yup, exactly. My research PI is really really busy and hates writing letters, but she still wants to help her undergrads get into grad/med school... and I know she allowed one of her undergrads to write her own letter, and the PI just read and signed it. So yeah, like other people here are saying, it happens.

Since my personal lab mentor is a postdoctoral researcher and NOT the lab PI, it was my mentor wrote my letter for me and my PI just cosigned it... so I don't have to live with a guilty conscience :thumbup:
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I wouldn't post too much specifics on SDN. Adcoms might read it :smuggrin:
 
It doesn't go against the rules to read or write your own letter. By signing the waiver you simply release your right (under FERPA I believe) to read your recommendations. If the prof let's you read it and right it than all the better for you!
 
CTtarheel said:
It doesn't go against the rules to read or write your own letter.
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If you don't believe me why don't you simply ask this to an adcom person? I am sure many do one of the two (ie. me) but just don't let med schools or other pre-meds know about it. It might come back to haunt you. And I do mean it. SERIOUSLY!
 
I could never write my own recommendation. I didn't even ask to read the LORs I received for med apps. Once in ugrad, I had a proff write me a LOR for something, and he gave me a copy after he sent it in (I never asked for it though). I'm glad he didn't have me write it, because there is no way I would have praised myself as much as he did. I would've said something to the effect of, "she is a very capable student".
 
DrDrew said:
A professor I work with just gave me a sheet with some things he wanted included because he said they are what adcoms want to hear (he's been on the adcom at my school for 45 years) and told me to fill in the rest. He proofed it signed it and I sent it
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Out of curiosity, what did he say they wanted to hear?

I had to write two of my own recs, and they were two of the most difficult writing assignments I've ever had. It was really tough to make them sound like they were written by distinct people. I felt really dishonest doing it, but my profs told me it was common practice and that they'd change it up a bit.
 
I wondered why I remembered reading this thread once. It is from 3 months ago.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter what they wrote about you. Spend your time with your OCD on something else.
 
Has anyone inconspicuously had interfolio send your letters to your house or a friends' address or something? I have thoughts about doing this all the time:smuggrin: :smuggrin:
 
If you suspect that an LOR might be shaky, I would simply avoid asking that person for one. I don't peek.
 
i have no idea what's in my letters, but I assume they are good.
 
gsmithers68 said:
Has anyone inconspicuously had interfolio send your letters to your house or a friends' address or something? I have thoughts about doing this all the time:smuggrin: :smuggrin:
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don't they verify that the address they are sending them to is some kind of academic institution???

I'm sure you can request them to send it to a John Smith but will they actually do it if you're signed away your confidentiality?
 
DrDrew said:
A professor I work with just gave me a sheet with some things he wanted included because he said they are what adcoms want to hear (he's been on the adcom at my school for 45 years) and told me to fill in the rest. He proofed it signed it and I sent it out.

From what I've picked up on, this is seen as the highest form of respect between recommender-recommended
Click to expand...

Wouldn't the highest form of respect be to ask someone that you know will write you stellar letters, and that way you wouldn't worry about what they said? I had really great relationships with all six of my letter-writers, so I trusted them to write really great letters for me. And, trust = respect. :)
 
mave said:
Wouldn't the highest form of respect be to ask someone that you know will write you stellar letters, and that way you wouldn't worry about what they said? I had really great relationships with all six of my letter-writers, so I trusted them to write really great letters for me. And, trust = respect. :)
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Exactly.:thumbup:
 
I did not have to write my own letter. But I asked a Dr. to write a LOR while shadowing him. He said he would and proceeded to dictate the letter on his recorder right in front of me. It was kind of awkward but sure a boost my confidence. He made me sound like one heck of a person. I never would have made my self look that good if I had written it.

A theme of this thread may be not to be too humble while writing your own LOR. Hit your high points and don't be afraid to expound on how wonderful you are and what a fantastic asset to medical school you will be. Any school would be honored to say you graduate from their institution. Just a suggestion.
 
random comment
 
Steve203 said:
I agree with another poster who said they should just get rid of them on the whole application process.
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I feel the same way too but it probably will not occur, since they need some sort of criteria to measure each applicant up against each other.
 
my people wrote the letters, signed and sent them. but they also gave me copies, "In case they ask about something I put in there!"

And I was asked about it, so I kind of appreciated it.
 
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