Anyone see that article by the AP about general surgery?

[Jim Picotte]

Here's a link to an article by the AP about a general surgeon shortage. This article is full of errors (when did Radiology become a 3 year residency?). What's everyone think about this?

<a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/724163.asp" target="_blank">General Surgery Shortage</a>

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[Chadleez1]

I read that on MSNBC.COM...the thing that struck me was the comment about earning only $50,000 dollars a year in the early training period, with an average of $100,000 in debt. I thought the max in residency was about $40,000, and usually in your 4th or 5th year?

 

[Winged Scapula]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Chadleez1:
•I read that on MSNBC.COM...the thing that struck me was the comment about earning only $50,000 dollars a year in the early training period, with an average of $100,000 in debt. I thought the max in residency was about $40,000, and usually in your 4th or 5th year?•••••The salary for residency depends greatly on the program. Many make more than $40,000 and upwards of $50,000. For example, next year as an R2, I will make $38,950 and I expect at least a $1500-$2000 increase *each year*. I know a Chief in California who makes $50,000 (or so). Granted there are programs which top out at $40,000 - and there are programs in NYC which START at $40,000.

 

[Chadleez1]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Kimberli Cox:
• •••quote:•••Originally posted by Chadleez1:
•I read that on MSNBC.COM...the thing that struck me was the comment about earning only $50,000 dollars a year in the early training period, with an average of $100,000 in debt. I thought the max in residency was about $40,000, and usually in your 4th or 5th year?•••••The salary for residency depends greatly on the program. Many make more than $40,000 and upwards of $50,000. For example, next year as an R2, I will make $38,950 and I expect at least a $1500-$2000 increase *each year*. I know a Chief in California who makes $50,000 (or so). Granted there are programs which top out at $40,000 - and there are programs in NYC which START at $40,000.•••••I didn't realize that, thank you for the clarification. By the way, what's an R2? I've never heard of "R" and then the year number.

 

[brownman]

Yup it's real,

The surgery shortage is very real, and how it well affect a variety of fields is very real. I've been trying to prevent it from affecting my decisions, but that's difficult to do considering what it means overall. It's great for surgeons genuinely: 1) they're salary will go up (considerably I believe), 2) hopefully it well help the system evaluate the entire workload process, and 3) job opportunities will be more plentiful. Unfortunately it's not a cycle that corrects itself very quickly, and it can take time to get the rates to fill again. ONLY ONCE IT'S A CRISIS (FIVE TO TEN YEARS FROM NOW) WILL ANYONE TRULY TAKE NOTICE and change lifestyle requirements to make surgery more amenable to medical students to enter.

This shortage unfortunately effects anesthesiolgoy and pathology as well. These two fields are very dependant on surgeons for survival and growth. Without enough surgeons to cover increasing number of surgeries...there may not be enough work to handle the influx of anesthesiologists in the coming years. This goes for pathologists and radiologists as well (to some degree, though not as much). We'll see how it all plays out, and I'd love to hear other peoples opinions on the matter...but I think it's a crisis that will rival the ones seen in anesthesia and rads...AND HAVE A FAR WORSE OUTCOME FOR A WIDE VARIETY OF FIELDS.

 

[carddr]

Some very valid points. One program I interviewed with in NY gave me a raise as I sat there from $42,000 to 45,000. So I think the market is responding all ready. Will be very interesting to watch.

 

[Soupbone]

I know the woman in the story. She is in my class.

She started gung ho wanting to do Surgery.. now is awaiting the match for Radiology.

I think the story hit the nail on the proverbial head.

S0upb0ne

 

[prince]

Hey folks,

There is NO shortage. People are missing the big picture here. US grads may not fill it but others will. Thus, no shortage. Only if they cut positions would this happen which obviously they have no reason to. End result, no shortage!

 

[wbd161]

Well actually there is a shortage. I got these numbers from the NRMP:

Total Number of Positions in GS: 1041
Number of Positions Filled by US Seniors: 820
%Filled by US Seniors: 78.8%

Number of Positions Filled, All Applicants:973
% Filled by All Applicants:93.5%

The article was indeed right in saying that 68 positions remained unfilled last year. Is 68 a significant number? Maybe. Adding a bunch of 68s sure would be and it seems as if the trend will continue until God knows when.

 

[Voxel]

Also, no one is talking about the possible impact of new drugs and interventional technology. There are drugs in the works that will dissolve gallstones and alleviate cholecystitis sypmtoms. Granted you will have to take those for life, however, these are things to ponder. It has happened before with H2 and H+ blockers for peptic ulcer disease which earlier in this century was treated with surgical therapy and now is treated mostly by medical means. Who will control interventional advances in techniques that are replacing surgeries like arterial graft bypassing, etc is also a matter of debate.

Balancing all this these treatments and new technologies is increasing # of oncology, CAD, hernia repair cases, which makes the outlook for those surgeries bright. So it's hard to say what the outlook for procedures will be. Lastly, one needs to take into account the large number of current general surgeons that will be retiring in waves (this will be true across many specialties).

Things to ponder...

 

[hosskp1]

I am considering a career in General surgery (or Ortho). the thing that might move me into general surgery is the fellowship opportunities afterwards-- vascular, CT, or trauma. I have always wanted to be a surgeon and I do not feel like changing now just because everyone else doesn;t like it. Everyone is different. I like it and am willing to pay the price for my decision. They look at you different if you want to be a surgeon (like you are crazy-- they also look at me like that when I tell them I am also in the Army). Well if people do not like it, then maybe there will be more open spots for me and I will nbe to get into a better program.

 

[PainMan]

I am FINALLY on the other side of the curve! I first applied to med school in 1994...one of the highest applicant years ever if not the highest. I didnt get in so I have been an engineer for the past decade...Then I invested most of my savings AFTER the nasdaq hit 5000...enough said there...So here I am...Accepted for 2006 and I want to be a general surgeon!! wahooo!!!!

 

[Winged Scapula]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Chadleez1:
•

I didn't realize that, thank you for the clarification. By the way, what's an R2? I've never heard of "R" and then the year number.•••••R2 = resident year number 2 = PGY-2 = Post-Graduate Year 2 both of which are simple ways of saying you are in your second year of residency.

 

[carddr]

:
3mcidj: Good for you...tenacious to say the least. Did almost the same thing but knew in 94 I wouldn't make it...so when the foreign school route in 97 and graduated in 01. Looking at 5 years to train so around med 30's I should see some return on my investment. Hang in there and congratulations. It's hard for some on this forum to realize the bumps in our journey.

 

[Voxel]

With the decrease in AMGs applying to surgery, do you think that general surgery residency programs will begin to sponser H1B Visas in earnest? This is a real way to stop any impending shortage. As these, people have an easier route to gaining legal residence status and eventually US Citizenship?