AOA residency chance with a red flag

[Laito]

Hi,

I'm OMS II who is interested in neurosurgery. I struggled during my first semester and failed biochem and genetics, but passed remediations. I'm standing borderline between 1st and 2nd quintile. If my recent grades are any predictors of my board grades, I doubt I will get a rockstar scores. I've been pretty much averaging each exam.

Only research experience I have is being involved in a neuro research for 4 years during my time in the Army as a research tech where I performed lots of brain procedures on rats. I only have one publication as a 5th author.

Realistically, I'm sure I have zero chance in ACGME. But how about AOA programs? Do you think a good away rotation can make up for my red flags if I have decent STEP scores? What would be a decent scores? There are two AOA programs near my school. What would be the best way to make connections?

I appreciate your honest feedbacks.

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[SpartanWolverine]

Preclinical grades don't matter too much. But you're right that doing poorly in preclinical courses likely reflects non-stellar Step/Level 1 scores coming up. Historically good away rotations can count for something (though some programs have minimum board scores before they let you rotate) in the DO world. However, are you sure these programs will be participating in the AOA match in the upcoming years? I expect just about all of them will transition over the the NRMP match in the next year or two. Assuming the AOA match is all but nonexistent in two years especially as a DO you will need scores in the 250s on the USMLE and ~15 interviews to be competitive on that front. Research is also heavily weighed in neurosurgery. Unfortunately you'll be competing with a large number of people who are from top-40 schools with a high proportion being AOA members. I don't want to discourage you too much but it would be advantageous for you to have a backup plan.

In the end, contact the specific programs you're interested in. Get their advice (especially about when they will transition to the NRMP match). It's too program-dependent to really know from an outside perspective. Hopefully someone who knows more about neurosurgery in particular can give you more specific advice.

 

[Laito]

Preclinical grades don't matter too much. But you're right that doing poorly in preclinical courses likely reflects non-stellar Step/Level 1 scores coming up. Historically good away rotations can count for something (though some programs have minimum board scores before they let you rotate) in the DO world. However, are you sure these programs will be participating in the AOA match in the upcoming years? I expect just about all of them will transition over the the NRMP match in the next year or two. Assuming the AOA match is all but nonexistent in two years especially as a DO you will need scores in the 250s on the USMLE and ~15 interviews to be competitive on that front. Research is also heavily weighed in neurosurgery. Unfortunately you'll be competing with a large number of people who are from top-40 schools with a high proportion being AOA members. I don't want to discourage you too much but it would be advantageous for you to have a backup plan.

In the end, contact the specific programs you're interested in. Get their advice (especially about when they will transition to the NRMP match). It's too program-dependent to really know from an outside perspective. Hopefully someone who knows more about neurosurgery in particular can give you more specific advice.

Thank you for the reply. You're right. I won't be participating in AOA match since I'm class of 2020, and I'm not sure if those NS residencies got approved for ACGME or not. I'll look into it more. Thanks.

 

[SurgeDO]

Thank you for the reply. You're right. I won't be participating in AOA match since I'm class of 2020, and I'm not sure if those NS residencies got approved for ACGME or not. I'll look into it more. Thanks.

I will be blunt with you: your odds of matching neurosurgery are extremely low. This applies to both AOA and ACGME programs.

I would seriously consider other specialties. I am sorry, but unless you get a 700+, your odds are low.

 

[Laito]

I will be blunt with you: your odds of matching neurosurgery are extremely low. This applies to both AOA and ACGME programs.

I would seriously consider other specialties. I am sorry, but unless you get a 700+, your odds are low.

Thank you for your honest opinion. Do you think ACGME General surgery is out of league as well?

 

[SurgeDO]

Thank you for your honest opinion. Do you think ACGME General surgery is out of league as well?

I'm not sure. I would put all your effort into doing wel on boards at this point.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Thank you for your honest opinion. Do you think ACGME General surgery is out of league as well?

You would need to do well on boards, pre-clinical stuff doesn't matter as much

 

[neusu]

ACGME and AOA have merged, all programs are run by the ACGME now.

 

[Trollest]

ACGME and AOA have merged, all programs are run by the ACGME now.

What does this mean for DO students in term of residencies? Like is the COMLEX alone enough or do we/they all have to take the COMLEx and Step 1 for gen surgery?

 

[SpartanWolverine]

Every DO should take the USMLE if they're interested in surgery.

 

[DrPapa]

Pre-clinical grades won't matter for anything if you rock step one. Get a 240+ and you may have a shot. Lower than that and I'd think other fields.

Your army experience, some good away rotations and letters will certainly help as well.