AOA says... "stop talking about that..."

[arlingtondoc]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Danzman posted this in different forum....

"AOA will be unable to do anything. We had the president elect come and give us a presentation on the "future of the DO." What a bunch on nonsense. He had nothing good to say about the future. It only made matters worse that all the question were about the DO name and how we should change it. In a nutshell this was his answer to all the questions:
1. Should we change the name?
"No, we cant, it will be to hard because of all the state laws around it. Also there are no names left, DOM in taken by oriental medicine. No one cares stop talking about it."
2. When can we practice in other countries?
"Probably never. Too much red tape and legal nonsense. Its completely out of our hand. Only chance you have is if you know someone politicaly connected in the country. Stop talking about it."
3. What about all the new schools opening up, where will they do residencies?
"Who knows. Family medicine has a ton of open spots. Stop asking about it"
4. So what If I don't want to do family med?
"Well, study hard. We can't do anything about GME because medicaid handles it. We are powerless until the system changes. Stop asking about it."
5. So, since we have fewer spots every year, tuition keeps going up, our insurance is going up, money is going down, we cant work anyplace else, and people will always ask just what the heck a DO is, do you have any good news for us?
We have a great new website."

My question is this... The AOA is supposed to be our professional organization as (or future) osteopathic physicians. If they are unable or unwilling to deal with the issues important to us and the future of our career. That is a problem, one that needs to be fixed, far more important than the other really popular forums like a name change.

We need quality GME reforms. Many DOs flee to ACGME programs for issues of quality, location or other reasons. Internationally, we are often considered chiropractors not physicians. We seek to be equals but there are worries our school may not meet the accreditation standards of our MD colleagues. We market ourselves as different, rather than equal to MDs. DO = MD should be the marketing effort not different. There is a for-profit medical school that is accreditated by our AOA. That is not necessarily a popular or helpful decision to our future. Time will tell on that one.

Suggestions? Options for the future?

 

[spicedmanna]

There's already a similar discussion going on:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=592566

 

[J1515]

Danzman posted this in different forum....

"AOA will be unable to do anything. We had the president elect come and give us a presentation on the "future of the DO.".....It only made matters worse that all the question were about the DO name and how we should change it.

Yup. Pathetic. Really makes you see how much the current students care about improving their education.

 

[meister]

Sorry your organization sucks guys. Maybe some day we can abolish the AOA and we can all be part of the AMA and everyone will have an MD...(every time people mention a degree change for you DOs I just want to scream "JUST SWITCH TO MD ALREADY JESUS CHRIST")

 

[sexyman]

I'm in a DO school and a member of the AMA...

I get JAMA weekly and everything haha

Dont you guys already know being an osteopathic medical student is like being Hannah Montana?

 

[TruthMD]

stop talking about it.

The best thing about not being in DO program is that the AOA (equal to scientologists) are not in control of my life any more. Being an IMG is still better than dealing with all of this, not to mention better rotations.

 

[JaggerPlate]

stop talking about it.

The best thing about not being in DO program is that the AOA (equal to scientologists) are not in control of my life any more. Being an IMG is still better than dealing with all of this, not to mention better rotations.

Yeah, the Caribbean rocks. Thanks for totally convincing all of us. Whenever people reaffirm their life decisions to others I instantly think 'BOOM, that guy is content.'

 

[TruthMD]

You get a lot of exposure to 'practicing osteopaths' in the Caribbean?? Again, everything you say is unfounded conjecture. You have failed to provide one piece of evidence for anything you've said.

I welcome all advice to future applicants ... however, persistent, unfounded opinion stated as advice is harmful. Once again, you have absolutely nothing to validate what you say. You're a medical student in the Caribbean with nothing to suggest you've observed DOs in the work place, applied to DO schools, anything of that nature. You're opinions, are thinly veiled and seem to only arise in threads that compare DO schools to Caribbean schools.

So we can all go back and see past posts. And 2 min of my valuable time showed me that you are nothing but ignorant. Here is one of your previous posts.

You are a premed right? And you trying to shoot down anything that anyone said that is not AOA or DO kosher? Or label them as a TROLL.. Is there a reason.. do you have experience as a DO student. Or you just some board person on SDN with over 2.5k posts. I am glad your so gunho about going DO ... cause the truth is AOA needs you. A loud mouth who cries wolf whenever the wind blows.

NOTE: for everyone else, I did not say I disagree with DO degree. I simply said I am glad not to have to deal with AOA (and I will add its shady practices). I will work just fine with another DO student or physician.

 

[Brodiewankenobi]

Yeah, the Caribbean rocks. Thanks for totally convincing all of us. Whenever people reaffirm their life decisions to others I instantly think 'BOOM, that guy is content.'

pwned 👍

 

[J1515]

NOTE: for everyone else, I did not say I disagree with DO degree. I simply said I am glad not to have to deal with AOA (and I will add its shady practices).

There is really nothing to deal with. Go to school for 4 years --> enter residency --> practice medicine. Some people like to complain no matter what they do, others just put their head down and focus on their goal. I know nothing about the AOA, nor do I care about them.

 

[goooooober]

There is really nothing to deal with. Go to school for 4 years --> enter residency --> practice medicine. Some people like to complain no matter what they do, others just put their head down and focus on their goal. I know nothing about the AOA, nor do I care about them.

I agree. They are all a bunch of medical student molestors anyways.

 

[JaggerPlate]

So we can all go back and see past posts. And 2 min of my valuable time showed me that you are nothing but ignorant. Here is one of your previous posts.

You are a premed right? And you trying to shoot down anything that anyone said that is not AOA or DO kosher? Or label them as a TROLL.. Is there a reason.. do you have experience as a DO student. Or you just some board person on SDN with over 2.5k posts. I am glad your so gunho about going DO ... cause the truth is AOA needs you. A loud mouth who cries wolf whenever the wind blows.

NOTE: for everyone else, I did not say I disagree with DO degree. I simply said I am glad not to have to deal with AOA (and I will add its shady practices). I will work just fine with another DO student or physician.

Laugh. Check all 2k+ of my posts ... you'll notice that common sense is something you're born with. I did a 30 second search on you too and read your pathetic story ... hence why I really don't even feel like responding to you. Plus, the post you pulled up doesn't even make sense. Also, you didn't really dig deep enough there Indiana Jones, because you'd see a lot of my comments against a ton of what the AOA does.

I understand you're happy not to 'deal with the AOA,' but honestly 40 posts of nothing but you saying 'Ha, oh man I'm so glad I went to the Caribbean ... heh, heh, oh man ... I am happy,' just makes you look like the fat kid standing in the back of the jr high dance telling all his friends he's happy girls aren't asking him to dance because he hates dancing.

I have no problem with Caribbean med students ... but I do find absolutely clueless ones funny. Good luck with everything, I won't respond to you again ... because I don't feel like dealing with a clown.

 

[bth7]

Hey people,

Can we please turn every conversation in the osteopathic forum into an acrimonious debate who sucks more: allopathic versus Caribbean versus osteopathic versus podiatry?

There's still a few threads where this is not the case, and I think if we all try just a little harder, we can make it happen.

It will facilitate things if more of us make sweeping generalizations about topics we know nothing about and then everyone else interprets those comments as personal attacks on their professional competence.

Thanks.

bth

 

[futuredo32]

After residency, are we required to pay dues or fees to the AOA?

 

[Peptoboy]

Suggestions? Options for the future?

Man, is there anyone out there that is happy with their choice to become a D.O. Every thread is some depressing sob story. The future can also take a bright outlook. They are setting records on applicants to Osteapathic Medical school every year while Allopathic remains about the same as far as applicants. Some people think MD schools are going to keep growing and push D.O. out, I have noticed some schools augment but some like the University of Utah have cut class sizes by 22% and raised tuition because of the economy. I am grateful to be in school and earning a medical degree. I will be a Physician and am proud of it. Nobody can take that away from me. Lets all come off the edges of our cliffs and relax a little bit.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Man, is there anyone out there that is happy with their choice to become a D.O. Every thread is some depressing sob story. The future can also take a bright outlook. They are setting records on applicants to Osteapathic Medical school every year while Allopathic remains about the same as far as applicants. Some people think MD schools are going to keep growing and push D.O. out, I have noticed some schools augment but some like the University of Utah have cut class sizes by 22% and raised tuition because of the economy. I am grateful to be in school and earning a medical degree. I will be a Physician and am proud of it. Nobody can take that away from me. Lets all come off the edges of our cliffs and relax a little bit.

All I hear about are these 'MD class size increases' but I never get dates or numbers. I've heard 20% by x year or something, but are classes just slowly increases or is there some new thing that is going to raise class sizes all around?? All at once or x % each year, etc??

 

[Peptoboy]

All I hear about are these 'MD class size increases' but I never get dates or numbers. I've heard 20% by x year or something, but are classes just slowly increases or is there some new thing that is going to raise class sizes all around?? All at once or x % each year, etc??

The original goal of the AMA was to raise overall matriculation to MD schools by 33% for the future Doctor shortage, but I think that the AMA has noticed how hard that is going to be considering that since this last year there have been few if any new MD schools that have opened. It is also hard considering the vast majority of MD schools are state schools which means the economy is going to take its "cuts" if you know what I mean. I think that is one reason why if you read everything coming out of the AMA's mouth lately about D.O.'s it is positive. They cannot do it alone. I for one am appreciative of the AMA support of the D.O.

 

[JaggerPlate]

. I for one am appreciative of the AMA support of the D.O.

For sure. The other side should show some love back.

 

[scpod]

The original goal of the AMA was to raise overall matriculation to MD schools by 33% for the future Doctor shortage....

It wasn't the AMA, rather the AAMC who came out with those goals back in 2006. The latest survey expects an increase in enrollment of about 17% by 2012.

 

[MaximusD]

stop talking about it.

The best thing about not being in DO program is that the AOA (equal to scientologists) are not in control of my life any more. Being an IMG is still better than dealing with all of this, not to mention better rotations.

HAHA. BETTER ROTATIONS!?

Read 'em and weep, son.

Hospital/Physician Location Status

Abington Hospital Abington, PA Home

Altman Psychiatric Associates Ambridge, PA Away (no housing)

Altoona Hospital Altoona, PA Away

Arnold, Wayne, D.O. Bala Cynwyd, PA Home

Atlantic Regional Medical Center Atlantic City, NJ Away (no housing)

Center for Pediatrics Dover, DE Away

Chestnut Hill Hospital Philadelphia, PA Home

Christiana Health System Wilmington, DE Home

City Line Pediatrics Philadelphia, PA Home

Clarion Hospital Clarion, PA Away (housing 1st come 1st serve)

Clay, Anthony, D.O. Newark, DE Home

Community Medical Center Toms River, NJ Away

Conemaugh Memorial Hospital Johnstown, PA Away

Cooler, Stewart, M.D. Philadelphia, PA Home

Crozer-Chester Health System Upland, PA Home

Crozer-Keystone Health System Drexel Hill, PA Home
(Delaware County Memorial Hospital)

David, Izola, D.O. Philadelphia, PA Home

Deborah Heart & Lung Hospital Browns Mills, NJ Away

Doylestown Hospital Doylestown, PA Home

Easton Hospital Easton, PA Away

Einstein Hospital Philadelphia, PA Home

Frankford Hospital System Philadelphia, PA Home

Franklin Square Hospital Baltimore, MD Away (housing 1st come 1st serve)

Geisinger Medical Center Danville, PA Away

Geisinger Medical Center Wilkes-Barre, PA Away

Harborview Pediatrics Somers Point, NJ Away (no housing)

Heart of Lancaster Hospital Lancaster, PA Away

Jersey Shore University Medical Center Neptune, NJ Away ($10/month for housing)

Kent General Hospital Dover, DE Away

Kornberg, Bruce, D.O. Wynnewood, PA Home

Lankenau Hospital Wynnewood, PA Home

Latrobe Area Hospital Latrobe, PA Away

Lehigh Valley Hospital Allentown, PA Away

Lerch Pediatrics Laurel Springs, NJ Home

Lewis, Ronald, D.O. Wilmington, DE Home

Lewistown Hospital Lewistown, PA Away

Lourdes Medical Center Willingboro, NJ Home

Margiotti & Kroll Pediatrics Trevose, PA Home

Meadville Medical Center Meadville, PA Away

Memorial Hospital York, PA Away

Mercy Catholic Health Systems Darby, PA Home

Mercy Hospital – Scranton Scranton, PA Away

Mercy Suburban Hospital Norristown, PA Home

Montgomery Co. Emergency Services Norristown, PA Home

Mountain View OB/GYN Hanover, PA Away

Muhlenberg Hospital Bethlehem, PA Away

Northeastern Hospital Philadelphia, PA Home

Panda Bear Pediatrics Collegeville, PA Home

Pinnacle Health System Harrisburg, PA Away

Reading Hospital Reading, PA Away

Roxborough Memorial Hospital Philadelphia, PA Home

Sacred Heart Hospital Allentown, PA Away

Saint Barnabas Hospital Bronx, NY Away (no housing)

Saint Francis Hospital Wilmington, DE Home

Saint Joseph's Hospital Philadelphia, PA Home

Saint Joseph Medical Center Reading, PA Away

Saint Luke Hospital Allentown, PA Away

Saint Luke Hospital Bethlehem, PA Away

Saint Luke Hospital Quakertown, PA Away

Saint Luke Minor Memorial Hospital Coaldale, PA Away

Sheppard-Pratt Hospital Baltimore, MD Away (no housing)

Soldiers & Sailors Hospital Wellsboro, PA Away

Southern NJ Cardiac Specialists Voorhees, NJ Home

The Medical Center Beaver Falls, PA Away

Trenton Psychiatric Hospital Trenton, NJ Home

Trinitas Hospital Elizabeth, NJ Away (no housing)

UMDNJ SOM Cherry Hill, NJ Home

Union Memorial Hospital Baltimore, MD Away (no housing)
\
UPMC – Horizon System Farrell, PA Away

UPMC- Shadyside Hospital Pittsburgh, PA Away (no housing)

Virtua Memorial Hospital Voorhees, NJ Home

Warren Hospital Center Phillipsburg, NJ Away

Widerman Pediatrics Philadelphia, PA Home

Williamsport Hospital Williamsport, PA Away

Women's Services of Bucks County Langhorne, PA Home

Wyoming Valley Health System Wilkes-Barre, PA Away

And that's just 3rd year core sites.

 

[MaximusD]

After residency, are we required to pay dues or fees to the AOA?

Only if you want to be a member. Other than licensing and board fees, they have no ability to make you pay them anything.

 

[MaximusD]

Hey people,

Can we please turn every conversation in the osteopathic forum into an acrimonious debate who sucks more: allopathic versus Caribbean versus osteopathic versus podiatry?

There's still a few threads where this is not the case, and I think if we all try just a little harder, we can make it happen.

It will facilitate things if more of us make sweeping generalizations about topics we know nothing about and then everyone else interprets those comments as personal attacks on their professional competence.

Thanks.

bth

Ah the genius that wants to change the degree from DO to MDO(etc). 🙄 Please don't lecture us about intelligent posting.

 

[bth7]

Ah the genius that wants to change the degree from DO to MDO(etc). 🙄 Please don't lecture us about intelligent posting.

I've never taken a position on the degree change issue.

 

[bth7]

HAHA. BETTER ROTATIONS!?
Read 'em and weep, son.
And that's just 3rd year core sites.

Only problem with your list is that, like most osteopathic schools, the school pads its list, heavily, to give the appearance that there's plenty of rotations.

Then 3rd year rolls around, and its a different story. There's not enough sites. Or there's no PEDS at the site, or no patients, or there's 10 Caribbean medical students for every patient, or there's no didactic program whatsoever at that facility, or the docs aren't getting paid to teach at all cause DOs schools don't pay their preceptors, or you have to move 6 times during your third year to get your requirements filled, or there's absolutely no curriculum at any of these facilities, because they don't have residents there.

You don't find all this out of course, until its too late.

bth

 

[MaximusD]

I've never taken a position on the degree change issue.

Hmm, I could have sworn...

 

[MaximusD]

Only problem with your list is that, like most osteopathic schools, the school pads its list, heavily, to give the appearance that there's plenty of rotations.

Then 3rd year rolls around, and its a different story. There's not enough sites. Or there's no PEDS at the site, or no patients, or there's 10 Caribbean medical students for every patient, or there's no didactic program whatsoever at that facility, or the docs aren't getting paid to teach at all cause DOs schools don't pay their preceptors, or you have to move 6 times during your third year to get your requirements filled, or there's absolutely no curriculum at any of these facilities, because they don't have residents there.

You don't find all this out of course, until its too late.

bth

That might be the case at Touro, but I 'm not sure how much it applies to PCOM. I will admit that certain sites on that comprehensive 3rd-year list are far superior to others, but I think they are at least adequate and some are outstanding (not some are merely satisfactory while others are awful).

 

[group_theory]

After residency, are we required to pay dues or fees to the AOA?

Only if you want to be a member. Other than licensing and board fees, they have no ability to make you pay them anything.

Depends.

If you do an AOA residency and are boarded through an AOA specialty board, then one of the requirements to maintain board-certification is to be an AOA member in good standing. (which mean you have to pay your annual dues and obtain enough CME to remain a member in good standing, although the CME isn't a big issue since you will need it for re-certification and also to maintain licensure)

If you did an ACGME residency and are boarded through ab ABMS specialty board, then you do not have to be a member of any organization to remain board certified (although you might hav AOA CME requirements as required by individual states - see each state's requirement for details)

 

[MaximusD]

Depends.

If you do an AOA residency and are boarded through an AOA specialty board, then one of the requirements to maintain board-certification is to be an AOA member in good standing. (which mean you have to pay your annual dues and obtain enough CME to remain a member in good standing, although the CME isn't a big issue since you will need it for re-certification and also to maintain licensure)

If you did an ACGME residency and are boarded through ab ABMS specialty board, then you do not have to be a member of any organization to remain board certified (although you might hav AOA CME requirements as required by individual states - see each state's requirement for details)

Looks like i'll be opting for a military residency after all. That's piss-poor. I understand the cost of CME is expected, but to have to pay annual AOA dues is irritating when I don't necessarily agree with how the AOA is run.

But to be clear, I stand corrected.

 

[group_theory]

Only problem with your list is that, like most osteopathic schools, the school pads its list, heavily, to give the appearance that there's plenty of rotations.

Then 3rd year rolls around, and its a different story. There's not enough sites. Or there's no PEDS at the site, or no patients, or there's 10 Caribbean medical students for every patient, or there's no didactic program whatsoever at that facility, or the docs aren't getting paid to teach at all cause DOs schools don't pay their preceptors, or you have to move 6 times during your third year to get your requirements filled, or there's absolutely no curriculum at any of these facilities, because they don't have residents there.

You don't find all this out of course, until its too late.

bth

On PCOM's website, they actually list the sites available for each core clinical rotation online.
http://www.pcom.edu/Clinical_Education/Affiliate_Lists_/affiliate_lists_.html#SPECIALTY

True, some sites only have space for 1-2 (some even more) students, but for rotations, your class will break up into groups, and your core group that you are competing/sharing sites with is roughly 10-15 in size. And a lot of the sites offer inpatient experiences and are affliated with residency programs.

As an example - Internal Medicine rotation (and whether it has an Internal Medicine residency)
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Abington Memorial Hospital[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Atlantic Regional Medical Center[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Chestnut Hill Hospital [/SIZE].- part of PCOM's residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Clarion Hospital[/SIZE]. -
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Easton Hospital[/SIZE]. -
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Einstein Hospital[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Frankford Health System[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Franklin Square Hospital Center[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Geisinger Medical Center[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Heart of Lancaster Hospital[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Lankenau Hospital[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Lehigh Valley Hospital[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Memorial Hospital[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Mercy Catholic Health System[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Mercy Hospital Scranton[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Mercy Suburban Hospital[/SIZE]. - part of Mercy Catholic Health IM residency
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Muhlenberg Hospital[/SIZE]. - part of Lehigh Valley IM residency
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Pinnacle Health System[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Reading Hospital[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Roxborough Memorial Hospital[/SIZE]. - part of PCOM's residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Saint Joseph Medical Center[/SIZE].
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Saint Joseph´s Hospital[/SIZE].
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Saint Luke Hospital - Allentown[/SIZE].
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Saint Luke Hospital - Bethlehem[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]The Medical Center of Beaver[/SIZE].
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Union Memorial Hospital[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]UPMC - Shadyside Hospital[/SIZE].


Now to be fair, Internal Medicine is a strong point of PCOM. But noticed how the vast majority of rotation sites have internal medicine residency (either AOA or ACGME). And are located in PA, NJ, DE, or MD. And the hospitals that don't have an IM residency but may have FP residency (ie St Lukes Allentown, Clarion)

A lot of these sites are also rotation sites for Temple, Jefferson, Penn, Drexel, and Penn State - so you will definately interact with other medical students (which I think is a plus for both side)

 

[MaximusD]

On PCOM's website, they actually list the sites available for each core clinical rotation online.
http://www.pcom.edu/Clinical_Education/Affiliate_Lists_/affiliate_lists_.html#SPECIALTY

True, some sites only have space for 1-2 (some even more) students, but for rotations, your class will break up into groups, and your core group that you are competing/sharing sites with is roughly 10-15 in size. And a lot of the sites offer inpatient experiences and are affliated with residency programs.

As an example - Internal Medicine rotation (and whether it has an Internal Medicine residency)
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Abington Memorial Hospital[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Atlantic Regional Medical Center[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Chestnut Hill Hospital [/SIZE].- part of PCOM's residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Clarion Hospital[/SIZE]. -
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Easton Hospital[/SIZE]. -
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Einstein Hospital[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Frankford Health System[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Franklin Square Hospital Center[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Geisinger Medical Center[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Heart of Lancaster Hospital[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Lankenau Hospital[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Lehigh Valley Hospital[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Memorial Hospital[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Mercy Catholic Health System[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Mercy Hospital Scranton[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Mercy Suburban Hospital[/SIZE]. - part of Mercy Catholic Health IM residency
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Muhlenberg Hospital[/SIZE]. - part of Lehigh Valley IM residency
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Pinnacle Health System[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Reading Hospital[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Roxborough Memorial Hospital[/SIZE]. - part of PCOM's residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Saint Joseph Medical Center[/SIZE].
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Saint Joseph´s Hospital[/SIZE].
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Saint Luke Hospital - Allentown[/SIZE].
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Saint Luke Hospital - Bethlehem[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]The Medical Center of Beaver[/SIZE].
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]Union Memorial Hospital[/SIZE]. - has a residency program
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-2]UPMC - Shadyside Hospital[/SIZE].


Now to be fair, Internal Medicine is a strong point of PCOM. But noticed how the vast majority of rotation sites have internal medicine residency (either AOA or ACGME). And are located in PA, NJ, DE, or MD. And the hospitals that don't have an IM residency but may have FP residency (ie St Lukes Allentown, Clarion)

A lot of these sites are also rotation sites for Temple, Jefferson, Penn, Drexel, and Penn State - so you will definately interact with other medical students (which I think is a plus for both side)

Lankenau IM/Cardio

 

[Peptoboy]

It wasn't the AMA, rather the AAMC who came out with those goals back in 2006. The latest survey expects an increase in enrollment of about 17% by 2012.

👍Sorry about that, I meant the AAMC, and you are right, now it currently stands at 17%. The original goal was 33%, but as you can see I don't think they think that idea is going to work very well. The point I was trying to make was that I believe that they are going to need our help to compensate for future physician shortage, that is the optimistic outlook for the future that I have.

 

[johnsmith777]

seriously,

if you all want to be MDs then apply to allopathic MD programs.

fact: most people do DO because they can't get into MD.

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

seriously,

if you all want to be MDs then apply to allopathic MD programs.

fact: most people do DO because they can't get into MD.

Yawn.

 

[bth7]

fact: most people do DO because they can't get into MD.

Sort of true.

Many of them wanted to live in a certain area, could have gone to a MD school, but chose a DO school cause it was located in their preferred geographic area.

bth

 

[johnsmith777]

I concur that there are some people that are interested in the DO for whatever reason.

However, the fact is that many people do DO because they can't get into MD.

DO schools have lower GPA/MCAT cutoffs as you know.

Long story short: Most MD's that don't particularly like DO's doesn't stem from their schools, but it is because the DO's come and try to take MD residency slots.

We don't take DO slots, so why should DO's be allowed to take MD slots?

 

[Boner]

I concur that there are some people that are interested in the DO for whatever reason.

1. However, the fact is that many people do DO because they can't get into MD.

2. DO schools have lower GPA/MCAT cutoffs as you know.

3. Long story short: Most MD's that don't particularly like DO's doesn't stem from their schools, but it is because the DO's come and try to take MD residency slots.

We don't take DO slots, so why should DO's be allowed to take MD slots?

1. Mostly true
2. Most DO schools have lower "cutoffs," but not all do.
3. Most DO students wouldn't care if MDs were allowed to participate in the DO match. It's been discussed before. But the fact remains, if DOs weren't allowed into ACGME programs, those spots we did "take" from MDs would be filled by internationals. We get those ACGME spots for a reason-we're qualified for them in the eyes of the PD. Yes, it's unfair that MDs can't match into AOA residencies, but would you really want to?

 

[JaggerPlate]

seriously,

if you all want to be MDs then apply to allopathic MD programs.

fact: most people do DO because they can't get into MD.

ROFL ... what a loser.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

I concur that there are some people that are interested in the DO for whatever reason.

However, the fact is that many people do DO because they can't get into MD.

DO schools have lower GPA/MCAT cutoffs as you know.

Long story short: Most MD's that don't particularly like DO's doesn't stem from their schools, but it is because the DO's come and try to take MD residency slots.

We don't take DO slots, so why should DO's be allowed to take MD slots?

I agree that DO residencies should be open to MDs. That said, I doubt many of you would actually attempt to match into them.

I also find it interesting that most of the posts by MDs around here start with some sort of disclaimer stating that "I see DOs as equals, I'm cool with working with them bla bla bla" and then end with the MD trash-talking DOs and insisting that people go osteopathic "just because they couldn't get into MD schools". It implies that there really is a lot more anti-DO bias out there than the MDs will fess up to.

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

I agree that DO residencies should be open to MDs.

Why? Why would you voluntarily give up one of the few advantages that osteopathic students have?

 

[johnsmith777]

I agree that DO residencies should be open to MDs. That said, I doubt many of you would actually attempt to match into them.

I also find it interesting that most of the posts by MDs around here start with some sort of disclaimer stating that "I see DOs as equals, I'm cool with working with them bla bla bla" and then end with the MD trash-talking DOs and insisting that people go osteopathic "just because they couldn't get into MD schools". It implies that there really is a lot more anti-DO bias out there than the MDs will fess up to.

at least i openly admit that I don't like DO's rather than pretend like alot of MD's (who secretly don't like DO's but don't have the balls to admit it)

 

[PipiChen]

at least i openly admit that I don't like DO's rather than pretend like alot of MD's (who secretly don't like DO's but don't have the balls to admit it)

What's wrong with DO? 😀 Do you like MBBS? 😀 Or you don't like anyone whom you think, in your opinion, is less capable and qualified than you? 😱 C'mon you like DOs hehe 👍

 

[JaggerPlate]

at least i openly admit that I don't like DO's rather than pretend like alot of MD's (who secretly don't like DO's but don't have the balls to admit it)

Let me see if I can follow your logic here:

DOs are MD rejects with low gpa/MCAT (ie not as good as MD students) --> you don't like DOs because they take away your residency slots --> which implies that these DOs with low MCAT and gpa out competed you at your own game, but weren't you the smarter/better one with the good stats??? It seems like you are worried about these second class citizens being better than you. Maybe you dislike DOs because you feel entitled to a good residency spot, but realize the 'MD' isn't a ticket for a competitive residency and you need someone to blame??? Seems like you just suck. Maybe you should be better.

 

[endocardium]

at least i openly admit that I don't like DO's rather than pretend like alot of MD's (who secretly don't like DO's but don't have the balls to admit it)

Right, so I guess you are saying that the bigot you know is better than the bigot you don't know.

 

[Frank l]

I concur that there are some people that are interested in the DO for whatever reason.

However, the fact is that many people do DO because they can't get into MD.

DO schools have lower GPA/MCAT cutoffs as you know.

Long story short: Most MD's that don't particularly like DO's doesn't stem from their schools, but it is because the DO's come and try to take MD residency slots.

We don't take DO slots, so why should DO's be allowed to take MD slots?

Yeah, so a lot of people become DO's because they didn't get into an MD school. A lot of people go to state MD schools because they couldn't get into Harvard. A lot of people go to Harvard because they couldn't get into Hopkins (or vice versa). Whatever. There is always someone cooler than you.
Truth is there are only two categories, people who got into medical school and people who didn't. If you are in the first group then we are colleagues. If that irritates you, then all you are really going to get out of it is the experience of being irritated. Kind of a waste of time.

 

[NPEMTIV]

To reiterate what Lee has stated previously regarding MD vs. DO discussions:

"MD vs. DO flame-wars are not tolerated at SDN. It is OK to discuss the differences and benefits of each degree. However, personal attacks and "trolling" are not appropriate."

Now, getting back to the questions posed by the OP. I think the only way to change the direction and stance of the AOA on various issues is to put pressure on them as students or young physicians. The AOA leadership doesn't hear from us often enough and sadly it's the individuals and groups that voice their opinions the loudest that get heard. I would encourage students and young physicians to become involved with the AOA Boards and Committees to help alter the objectives of the AOA to those more in-line with fixing the problems noted (more ACOGME residencies).

As for the ACOGME residency answer given by the president-elect that is partly true. Medicare funds those slots and the AOA would have to put a lot of pressure on them to help increase funding.

Regarding a name change. There was a great article about this in The D.O. not long about talking about the difficulties with changing the name. First, every state would have to rewrite their laws regarding osteopathic medicine and physicians to incorporate the new title. Additionally, each country that has granted D.O. practice rights would have to do the same. This would be a large undertaking and I question what it would actually do for the profession. Wouldn't OMD, MDO, MD,DO, etc..equally confuse people? When it comes down to patients not really knowing the difference between the two professions anyhow I see little value in changing this. Osteopathic physicians I know in several specialties all tell me the same; patients don't know the difference and truthfully they are asked infrequently about it.

Finally, about foreign practice rights. I'd be tempted to tell the AOA not to focus on this issue much. The cost/benefit ratio of acquiring practice rights in a country where few D.O.s will probably ever practice doesn't seem beneficial to me. Instead, I think the AOA should concern itself with improving the profession within the U.S. In situations that arise where a D.O. seeking licensure in another country needs assistance the AOA has been known to help educate the foreign country regarding our training and abilities.

The D.O. profession is growing and there are things that are lagging behind such as residency spots. I would encourage you, and others, to begin writting the AOA leadership about your concerns. I've done this myself before and you might be surprised the response you can get.

 

[Peptoboy]

at least i openly admit that I don't like DO's rather than pretend like alot of MD's (who secretly don't like DO's but don't have the balls to admit it)

It is fine by me if you do not like D.O.'s for whatever reason, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. It's when you bring crap into the forum that makes me want to vomit.😱 Let me guess, you are one of those that thinks that it is okay for a foreign medical graduate to take "your residency slots" because they have an "MD". Am I correct? You are right, they are much better physicians. Even though the standards to get into Caribbean medical schools are lower even than D.O., they are automatically better Physicians because it reads "M.D." You kill me, I'm rolling on the floor. Please keep your ignorant foolish comments to yourself.

P.S. I am trying to picture you as a Doctor right now. You are one of those that is doing Radiology because "you don't have to touch a patient and you can still make a lot of money", right?

 

[Bleurberry]

To reiterate what Lee has stated previously regarding MD vs. DO discussions:

"MD vs. DO flame-wars are not tolerated at SDN. It is OK to discuss the differences and benefits of each degree. However, personal attacks and "trolling" are not appropriate."

Now, getting back to the questions posed by the OP. I think the only way to change the direction and stance of the AOA on various issues is to put pressure on them as students or young physicians. The AOA leadership doesn't hear from us often enough and sadly it's the individuals and groups that voice their opinions the loudest that get heard. I would encourage students and young physicians to become involved with the AOA Boards and Committees to help alter the objectives of the AOA to those more in-line with fixing the problems noted (more ACOGME residencies).

As for the ACOGME residency answer given by the president-elect that is partly true. Medicare funds those slots and the AOA would have to put a lot of pressure on them to help increase funding.

Regarding a name change. There was a great article about this in The D.O. not long about talking about the difficulties with changing the name. First, every state would have to rewrite their laws regarding osteopathic medicine and physicians to incorporate the new title. Additionally, each country that has granted D.O. practice rights would have to do the same. This would be a large undertaking and I question what it would actually do for the profession. Wouldn't OMD, MDO, MD,DO, etc..equally confuse people? When it comes down to patients not really knowing the difference between the two professions anyhow I see little value in changing this. Osteopathic physicians I know in several specialties all tell me the same; patients don't know the difference and truthfully they are asked infrequently about it.

Finally, about foreign practice rights. I'd be tempted to tell the AOA not to focus on this issue much. The cost/benefit ratio of acquiring practice rights in a country where few D.O.s will probably ever practice doesn't seem beneficial to me. Instead, I think the AOA should concern itself with improving the profession within the U.S. In situations that arise where a D.O. seeking licensure in another country needs assistance the AOA has been known to help educate the foreign country regarding our training and abilities.

The D.O. profession is growing and there are things that are lagging behind such as residency spots. I would encourage you, and others, to begin writting the AOA leadership about your concerns. I've done this myself before and you might be surprised the response you can get.

 

[Old_Mil]

Finally, about foreign practice rights. I'd be tempted to tell the AOA not to focus on this issue much. The cost/benefit ratio of acquiring practice rights in a country where few D.O.s will probably ever practice doesn't seem beneficial to me. Instead, I think the AOA should concern itself with improving the profession within the U.S. In situations that arise where a D.O. seeking licensure in another country needs assistance the AOA has been known to help educate the foreign country regarding our training and abilities.

Depending on the sort of "reform" we see occur in our health care system, this may become a very relevant issue. In the event that physician compensation here falls to the levels seen in socialized systems but lawyers are left free to continue their predatory practices against doctors and training costs remain at today's levels or increase...getting out is going to be a very viable strategy. Ask the docs from Canada who came down here.

The D.O. profession is growing and there are things that are lagging behind such as residency spots. I would encourage you, and others, to begin writting the AOA leadership about your concerns. I've done this myself before and you might be surprised the response you can get.

For the final time, there is no such thing as "the D.O. profession." Anyone who begins a thought thusly has a fundamental misunderstanding of the medical field.

 

[NPEMTIV]

For the final time, there is no such thing as "the D.O. profession." Anyone who begins a thought thusly has a fundamental misunderstanding of the medical field.

There most certainly is a D.O. profession. I am part of it.

 

[Lamborghini1315]

Yeah, so a lot of people become DO's because they didn't get into an MD school. A lot of people go to state MD schools because they couldn't get into Harvard. A lot of people go to Harvard because they couldn't get into Hopkins (or vice versa). Whatever. There is always someone cooler than you.
Truth is there are only two categories, people who got into medical school and people who didn't. If you are in the first group then we are colleagues. If that irritates you, then all you are really going to get out of it is the experience of being irritated. Kind of a waste of time.

Stop saying this crap because it seriously offends me, i hate when people reason out other's decisions with their sense of reality. I am sorry if you never had the opportunity to neither be in a DO students shoes or in an MD student's shoes to comprehend their life. I will say it one more time you must have some audacity when you call out someone who goes to a DO school or an MD school about their choice, people make decisions on the grounds of what is relevant to them and act upon it..life is all about making adjustments as we go along. For many DO students these adjustments is what they are concerned about...