AOA Survery (what the hell are they thinking?)

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sylvanthus

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Below are some of the questions they are asking students in regards to a national awareness campaign they want to do. A perfect example of why we need to get rid of the old guard in the AOA and get some people in there who aren't so extreme in their drive to separate the professions and alienate us as DOs.




"I believe a national awareness campaign should:


Focus on how DOs differ from MDs


Focus on how DOs are better than MDs


Focus on how DOs are equal to MDs


Let consumers know that DOs are the best-trained physicians"



Seriously, wtf.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Below are some of the questions they are asking students in regards to a national awareness campaign they want to do. A perfect example of why we need to get rid of the old guard in the AOA and get some people in there who aren't so extreme in their drive to separate the professions and alienate us as DOs.




"I believe a national awareness campaign should:


Focus on how DOs differ from MDs


Focus on how DOs are better than MDs


Focus on how DOs are equal to MDs


Let consumers know that DOs are the best-trained physicians"



Seriously, wtf.

I got this too, I don't even know how to respond to this. It seems so odd that they would ask these things.
 
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Here was my response in the comments box.


Doctor of Medicine, Diplomat in Osteopathy (MD, DO) is without a doubt the best move. The diplomat in osteopathy title should also be made available to MD, MBBS, MB Ch folks as well (like a one-year course). If you really think that osteopathy is beneficial to public health then it is incumbent that all physicians be provided access to proper training. Our current degree means Doctor of Bone Disease Medicine, it's not what I will do and I doubt it's what you do. This will happen, the only question is if it will be lead by the AOA or will this resemble the hostile takeover that was the residency "crisis". We also need to get ECOP an overhaul, the current OMM curriculum is alienating us as students. We need to make a commitment to speak openly about our mistakes and to set emotion aside and recognize that Evidence based medicine is the future. This profession was founded on the principle that we need to challenge ourselves to provide the best possible care and that if something isn't up to snuff we need to "can it" and move on in search of new and innovative ways to care for our patients. I'm not saying that OMM should go by the wayside, I'm saying that if the OMM that is out there does not meet even reasonable scientific scrutiny then it is our duty to put it aside and look for something else that does. Nutrition, exercise, decreased reliance on drugs, and preventative medicine, these are all things that I wish we were more involved with. I'm fed up with the osteopathic propoganda, the AT Still type degree representation will do more for us than any amount of advertising. It will end the constant tension for so many and it will allow us to focus on refining our body of work (osteopathy literature, research, and education). My final comment is that the best advertising is the type that you don't have to pay for. Here's my example; Pt, "hey doc, whats that extra thing after MD?" Dr, "it's DO and it means that I took extra courses in medical school to be able to help you get better quicker". Pt, "thinks to himself that his Dr. must really be special if he took extra courses on top of being a doctor, then he brags to his family about how his dr. isn't just a regular md he's even better". I could keep writing for hours about all of the positive implications but I know this is an emotional issue for many and I was once told to never argue emotion with fact. Take care and please make the right choice.
 
M.D. D.O.

This is pretty much what I wrote. Hoping many others do as well. If it's good for Big Poppa A.T. Still in an era when allopathy was a mess, it's good enough now in the era where it often get's $#!+ done right! Plus if they really like this "we do everything an MD does along with OMM" stance, then it advertises their hype a bit.

I really hope DO students are stepping up and filling out the survey, even if they have been swayed by the Darkside a bit.
 
Even the US gov't isn't as out of touch with it's constituency as the AOA is.
 
Meh. I just replied that I strongly disagree with informing the public about how we are different/better, and strongly agreed with informing them about how we are the same.

I'm not sure the questions show that they are out of touch. They are asking us for our opinion so that they can keep in touch. That in and of itself is something.
 
Here was my response in the comments box.


Doctor of Medicine, Diplomat in Osteopathy (MD, DO) is without a doubt the best move. The diplomat in osteopathy title should also be made available to MD, MBBS, MB Ch folks as well (like a one-year course). If you really think that osteopathy is beneficial to public health then it is incumbent that all physicians be provided access to proper training. Our current degree means Doctor of Bone Disease Medicine, it's not what I will do and I doubt it's what you do. This will happen, the only question is if it will be lead by the AOA or will this resemble the hostile takeover that was the residency "crisis". We also need to get ECOP an overhaul, the current OMM curriculum is alienating us as students. We need to make a commitment to speak openly about our mistakes and to set emotion aside and recognize that Evidence based medicine is the future. This profession was founded on the principle that we need to challenge ourselves to provide the best possible care and that if something isn't up to snuff we need to "can it" and move on in search of new and innovative ways to care for our patients. I'm not saying that OMM should go by the wayside, I'm saying that if the OMM that is out there does not meet even reasonable scientific scrutiny then it is our duty to put it aside and look for something else that does. Nutrition, exercise, decreased reliance on drugs, and preventative medicine, these are all things that I wish we were more involved with. I'm fed up with the osteopathic propoganda, the AT Still type degree representation will do more for us than any amount of advertising. It will end the constant tension for so many and it will allow us to focus on refining our body of work (osteopathy literature, research, and education). My final comment is that the best advertising is the type that you don't have to pay for. Here's my example; Pt, "hey doc, whats that extra thing after MD?" Dr, "it's DO and it means that I took extra courses in medical school to be able to help you get better quicker". Pt, "thinks to himself that his Dr. must really be special if he took extra courses on top of being a doctor, then he brags to his family about how his dr. isn't just a regular md he's even better". I could keep writing for hours about all of the positive implications but I know this is an emotional issue for many and I was once told to never argue emotion with fact. Take care and please make the right choice.

I just skimmed this before, but after having thoroughly read what you wrote here, I couldn't agree more. Well put!
 
I just skimmed this before, but after having thoroughly read what you wrote here, I couldn't agree more. Well put!

Very well put, indeed. Unfortunately their message will likely be received on deaf ears.
 
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Do you think the MD establishment would push back against such an effort to award MD's to DO's and DO students? I would be surprised if the AOA did not meet some resistance even if they were open to that idea. Some MD's still think that DO's are inferior.
 
Apparently so do many DO medical students.

It does not appear as if anyone here finds DOs to be inferior, although many are not happy with the AOA and their apparent inferiority complex, which they seemingly try to push on to the next generation of DOs.
 
It does not appear as if anyone here finds DOs to be inferior, although many are not happy with the AOA and their apparent inferiority complex, which they seemingly try to push on to the next generation of DOs.

I have been here a long, long time, and seen the degere change debate a great many times, and while the AOA has issues, I have yet to see an argument for changing the DO degree to MD,DO, or MDO or whatever else you want that doesn't boil down to either "because no one knows what it is" or "because MDs look down on DOs" I do like the above's new take "OMM is bull****" take, but it doesnt go far enough to justify changing the degree,

ETA: meaning that you can't say OMM has it's place, then say it doesn't hold up to scientific scruity and really allow it to continue to be taught, and as such, then where is the difference, let's break off OMM and let it be taken over by the chiropracters.
 
I have been here a long, long time, and seen the degere change debate a great many times, and while the AOA has issues, I have yet to see an argument for changing the DO degree to MD,DO, or MDO or whatever else you want that doesn't boil down to either "because no one knows what it is" or "because MDs look down on DOs" I do like the above's new take "OMM is bull****" take, but it doesnt go far enough to justify changing the degree,

ETA: meaning that you can't say OMM has it's place, then say it doesn't hold up to scientific scruity and really allow it to continue to be taught, and as such, then where is the difference, let's break off OMM and let it be taken over by the chiropracters.

I respect that. I said it once, and I'll say it again, I don't care too much about this, although a few of those posts above make a lot of sense to me. I signed up to have the D.O. stitched on my coat someday and when that day comes, I'll be damn proud of it. But you have to admit, most of the so-called "distinction" only comes down to that label, while the rest is steeped in mostly empty words laced with a little brother complex.

And if OMM works, why keep it in the confines of osteopathic medicine? And what to say of its fate with an increasing push to adhere to the practice of EBM? What will be a D.O.'s distinction if these practices do not pass as EBM and the powers-that-be refuse to reimburse such practices? Philosophy that rarely proves different from allopathy? History? The insecure need for distinction? I digress... I happen to appreciate OMM and think it does have its place, in the hands of a physician who can utilize effectively in his practice setting, which certainly doesn't include all D.O.s, nor should it.

So you're looking for a good reason to change the degree name? I get that. I think many- if not most- are still waiting for a good reason to NOT change the degree, that for the most part really only has historical significance and associated pride. I know I haven't heard a good reason to NOT change the degree.

Obviously the AOA cares about its image and helping the general public understand exactly what a D.O. is. I don't know, but M.D. D.O. seems to describe it pretty darn well and quite simply at that. But in the end, it's not that big of a deal, because I'm sure most patients could really care less anyway. And as long as I can practice medicine, under the same stipulations as my future M.D. colleagues, I don't care too much either.
 
If you don't like the AOA to promote osteopathic medicine as equal to or better than other medical modalities, what would you like the AOA to do? Say that osteopathic medicine is "adequate"?

Why are people upset and surprised when the AOA wants to promote osteopathic medicine? Are you surprised and upset the ADA talks about diabetes all the time? Or that the AANP promotes NPs as the best, most cost-effective providers? (whether true or not). Why should the AOA not promote osteopathic medicine as the best?

It just doesn't make sense to me why everyone gets upset every time the AOA tries to promote osteopathic medicine. It's part of their mission (and rightfully so).

If you want to truly enact change in our wonderful profession, then become active at the local or national level. It's not that hard, and it's more effective than an anonymous internet forum (but not as fun...you actually have to have solid arguments for discussion and be professional).
 
If you don't like the AOA to promote osteopathic medicine as equal to or better than other medical modalities, what would you like the AOA to do? Say that osteopathic medicine is "adequate"?

Why are people upset and surprised when the AOA wants to promote osteopathic medicine? Are you surprised and upset the ADA talks about diabetes all the time? Or that the AANP promotes NPs as the best, most cost-effective providers? (whether true or not). Why should the AOA not promote osteopathic medicine as the best?

It just doesn't make sense to me why everyone gets upset every time the AOA tries to promote osteopathic medicine. It's part of their mission (and rightfully so).

If you want to truly enact change in our wonderful profession, then become active at the local or national level. It's not that hard, and it's more effective than an anonymous internet forum (but not as fun...you actually have to have solid arguments for discussion and be professional).

There is nothing wrong with promotion; I do not think anyone here is saying there is. People here take issue with the whole "we do everything an MD does, plus we're more holistic, blah, blah, blah" when 9 times out of 10 this is simply not the case, i.e. not representative of the typical D.O. I think most people see through the b.s. and are a bit embarrassed by it and frustrated with all of it as well.

I agree that getting involved is a good thing, passive aggressive comments aside of course ;)
 
the choice to start handing out MD's is not for the DO schools to make. They would have done that a long time ago if they could.
 
organizations like to perpetuate their existence. it's normal.
 
The AOA really ought to tread lightly... at least for the next few years.

The ACGME saves their GME and they come out with a "why DO>MD" campaign. Yeah, that will go over well.

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the choice to start handing out MD's is not for the DO schools to make. They would have done that a long time ago if they could.

This.

And if, for the sake of argument, the AOA started handing them out, you could expect a counter campaign pretty quick to make the DO tag more of a black mark that an "MD+".

How would you feel, in the current system if PA schools started teaching OMM and they get a cert as "PA.DO."? While you guys get to be "just" DO? Kinda crappy huh? I'm not saying DOs are on the level of PAs, but its kinda horse sh** to come to see the guys who didn't get into MD school (whatever fraction that is aside from all those who willingly chose DO over their MD acceptances.... let's not get into that...) suddenly claim to not only be equal, but better. Ya :thumbdown:

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This.

And if, for the sake of argument, the AOA started handing them out, you could expect a counter campaign pretty quick to make the DO tag more of a black mark that an "MD+".

How would you feel, in the current system if PA schools started teaching OMM and they get a cert as "PA.DO."? While you guys get to be "just" DO? Kinda crappy huh? I'm not saying DOs are on the level of PAs, but its kinda horse sh** to come to see the guys who didn't get into MD school (whatever fraction that is aside from all those who willingly chose DO over their MD acceptances.... let's not get into that...) suddenly claim to not only be equal, but better. Ya :thumbdown:

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Agree with this, but you'll be flamed because no DO student on SDN has ever not chosen DO over MD acceptances.
 
Agree with this, but you'll be flamed because no DO student on SDN has ever not chosen DO over MD acceptances.

I was being sarcastic. Anytime you suggest that a DO student is such due to inability to go MD there is a s***storm. There are some non traditional students that go that route for family reasons but it is a minority

Edit: I just reread and I think maybe you were on to this

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I fully admit that I went to a DO school because I couldn't get into an MD school. Just because you couldn't get into an MD school doesn't mean you won't be an awesome doctor. It took me three years to get a solitary interview at a DO school and even then I was waitlisted. I then finished in the top 5% of my class, got a 240+ on USMLE and matched into a very competitive ACGME surgical sub specialty. I think I'm going to be a pretty damn good doctor once my training is complete.

The differences in grades & MCAT scores are there, yeah, but the overall differences are tiny when you realize you're already talking about the top 1%.
 
I have been here a long, long time, and seen the degere change debate a great many times, and while the AOA has issues, I have yet to see an argument for changing the DO degree to MD,DO, or MDO or whatever else you want that doesn't boil down to either "because no one knows what it is" or "because MDs look down on DOs" I do like the above's new take "OMM is bull****" take, but it doesnt go far enough to justify changing the degree,

ETA: meaning that you can't say OMM has it's place, then say it doesn't hold up to scientific scruity and really allow it to continue to be taught, and as such, then where is the difference, let's break off OMM and let it be taken over by the chiropracters.


you make a good point. i should have clarified my statement a bit more about omm. my position is that there are some great treatments which will certainly pass muster, but there are some awful ones too. the awful ones tend to be the ones that make us look bad and that alienate students. i don't for a second think that it's possible to lump all of omm into one category and say it works or it doesn't, that's pretty irrational.

my main argument for the degree change does have a little bit to do with recognition but also think about all of those wasted resources. the aoa puts quite a lot of time, effort, and money into the osteopathic brand. and to be quite honest, i'm not sure it's doing anyone a lot of good. we could better use those resources without a doubt. there are countless better ways for the aoa to spend it's money. we should be less concerned about inferiority or the big bad ama. we have all put in so much work and it's so that we can take care of people that need our help. what is best for our patients should be our number one priority, first and foremost, and that should not just apply in the clinic or hospital it should be evident in the way we make administrative decisions.

now, i'm not saying that we need not protect our interests. but, i personally would like more transparency. many of the aoa decisions seem out of touch and i can't quite figure out the purpose. the motivation for a lot of these decisions seem to be more linked to feelings than logic. maybe i'm completely out of line, it is difficult to really know the politics at the aoa level without being directly involved. but, it is what it is at the moment. and i do appreciate to fortitude that it took for the aoa to send out that survey. it asked some of those really hard questions, and i think that it was an important move.
 
Like other posters have said, the AOA is spending so much time and effort in PR. To what point and to what end? If they truly want equal acceptance globally they need to improve the med school programs. Start putting emphasis on research (outside of OMM).

As for OMM why are we being taught dubious curriculum such as cranial manipulations? Why doesn't the AOA put the magnifying glass on itself and look at what is being taught more rigorously? I am sure many schools would like to cut this out of the curriculum but the since the COMLEX tests students over this topic their hands are tied.

I was listening to a podcast on youtube where several AOA board members were talking about the merger with the ACGME. They were chuckling how DOs will take over the world. Someone had asked a question regarding DO discrimination in other countries and they just
gave a blanketed answer and said the problem doesn't really exist.
 
This.

And if, for the sake of argument, the AOA started handing them out, you could expect a counter campaign pretty quick to make the DO tag more of a black mark that an "MD+".

How would you feel, in the current system if PA schools started teaching OMM and they get a cert as "PA.DO."? While you guys get to be "just" DO? Kinda crappy huh? I'm not saying DOs are on the level of PAs, but its kinda horse sh** to come to see the guys who didn't get into MD school (whatever fraction that is aside from all those who willingly chose DO over their MD acceptances.... let's not get into that...) suddenly claim to not only be equal, but better. Ya :thumbdown:

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You do realize it isn't those of us who "couldn't get into MD school" claiming to be better, right? It's the AOA. Just making sure you realize that.
 
You do realize it isn't those of us who "couldn't get into MD school" claiming to be better, right? It's the AOA. Just making sure you realize that.

I realize just all sorts of things :thumbup:

:rolleyes:

Do you realize this is how it comes across?
 
The AOA really ought to tread lightly... at least for the next few years.

The ACGME saves their GME and they come out with a "why DO>MD" campaign. Yeah, that will go over well.

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I don't know about the other posters, but I think you're misinterpreting the OP here. As a DO student myself, I read the post to be similar to your own sentiments. The last thing I want is the organization which represents me to go on some sort of campaign that contrasts us with the people we will work with (and who hold the majority of the influence on the national stage). As you have pointed out, that will not work out in our favor. I don't know if we will ever reach a point where the degrees will merge, but it certainly won't be through a poorly managed PR push.

If the ACGME/AOA merger goes through and the osteopathic post-grade training programs are brought up to/acknowledged to be equivalent to the ACGME's training, that would be the most compelling evidence that there no negative distinction.
 
I don't know about the other posters, but I think you're misinterpreting the OP here. As a DO student myself, I read the post to be similar to your own sentiments. The last thing I want is the organization which represents me to go on some sort of campaign that contrasts us with the people we will work with (and who hold the majority of the influence on the national stage). As you have pointed out, that will not work out in our favor. I don't know if we will ever reach a point where the degrees will merge, but it certainly won't be through a poorly managed PR push.

If the ACGME/AOA merger goes through and the osteopathic post-grade training programs are brought up to/acknowledged to be equivalent to the ACGME's training, that would be the most compelling evidence that there no negative distinction.

No, Beau is misreading. I was criticizing the AOA the entire time. Not DO students or doctors. But it is those very students and doctors who will look bad if the AOA were to launch this campaign.
 
DO schools would have to be accredited by the LCME before they could give MDs. That's probably the major hurdle. I have a feeling that the AOA would go along with schools awarding an MD, DO if they knew it could be done.
 
Here was my response in the comments box.


Doctor of Medicine, Diplomat in Osteopathy (MD, DO) is without a doubt the best move. The diplomat in osteopathy title should also be made available to MD, MBBS, MB Ch folks as well (like a one-year course). If you really think that osteopathy is beneficial to public health then it is incumbent that all physicians be provided access to proper training. Our current degree means Doctor of Bone Disease Medicine, it's not what I will do and I doubt it's what you do. This will happen, the only question is if it will be lead by the AOA or will this resemble the hostile takeover that was the residency "crisis". We also need to get ECOP an overhaul, the current OMM curriculum is alienating us as students. We need to make a commitment to speak openly about our mistakes and to set emotion aside and recognize that Evidence based medicine is the future. This profession was founded on the principle that we need to challenge ourselves to provide the best possible care and that if something isn't up to snuff we need to "can it" and move on in search of new and innovative ways to care for our patients. I'm not saying that OMM should go by the wayside, I'm saying that if the OMM that is out there does not meet even reasonable scientific scrutiny then it is our duty to put it aside and look for something else that does. Nutrition, exercise, decreased reliance on drugs, and preventative medicine, these are all things that I wish we were more involved with. I'm fed up with the osteopathic propoganda, the AT Still type degree representation will do more for us than any amount of advertising. It will end the constant tension for so many and it will allow us to focus on refining our body of work (osteopathy literature, research, and education). My final comment is that the best advertising is the type that you don't have to pay for. Here's my example; Pt, "hey doc, whats that extra thing after MD?" Dr, "it's DO and it means that I took extra courses in medical school to be able to help you get better quicker". Pt, "thinks to himself that his Dr. must really be special if he took extra courses on top of being a doctor, then he brags to his family about how his dr. isn't just a regular md he's even better". I could keep writing for hours about all of the positive implications but I know this is an emotional issue for many and I was once told to never argue emotion with fact. Take care and please make the right choice.

If I could shake your hand I would. Very very well spoken. I could not agree anymore:thumbup:
 
This.

And if, for the sake of argument, the AOA started handing them out, you could expect a counter campaign pretty quick to make the DO tag more of a black mark that an "MD+".

How would you feel, in the current system if PA schools started teaching OMM and they get a cert as "PA.DO."? While you guys get to be "just" DO? Kinda crappy huh? I'm not saying DOs are on the level of PAs, but its kinda horse sh** to come to see the guys who didn't get into MD school (whatever fraction that is aside from all those who willingly chose DO over their MD acceptances.... let's not get into that...) suddenly claim to not only be equal, but better. Ya :thumbdown:

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Your whole post is somewhere on the range between silly and dumb.
 
I was being sarcastic. Anytime you suggest that a DO student is such due to inability to go MD there is a s***storm. There are some non traditional students that go that route for family reasons but it is a minority

Regardless of the truth of the matter, this whole couldn't-get-into-a-MD-school bit is played out and so very unimportant. Some seem to care (and bring it up) a lot more than others for some reason...
 
Regardless the reason one attends DO school or any medical school for that matter is to become a physician. The application process is a complete crap shoot with schools receiving thousands of more applications each year. If someone doesn't agree with OMM some people are quick to tar and feather them as an MD reject. This has really got to stop. You have no clue what their life experiences, what difficulties they have gone through, or even what their thought process is.

What many are arguing is that DOs should not be defined with OMM. There are 26 other specialties out there that DOs practice in and many of those don't have any use of OMM. What the AOA is doing is the strong arming every DO out there and not letting define what kind of physician they want to be. It seems that when a student goes through an ACGME residency and fellowship they are labeled a traitor or sell out.

Why is the AOA so afraid of change? Why can't the younger DO physicians be allowed to forge their own identity rather than taking directives from an old boys club?
 
Regardless of the truth of the matter, this whole couldn't-get-into-a-MD-school bit is played out and so very unimportant. Some seem to care (and bring it up) a lot more than others for some reason...

I hope you aren't implying anything here. If you are I invite you to read both of my posts in full context. The whole point of the exchange between me and that other poster was that simply mentioning it in any capacity, even in the capacity of potential perception by future theoretical people, is often too much for the fragile pre-DO ego to handle. Don't play right into that by feeling compelled to address what WASN'T said ;)

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Why are they nly asking students? Don't they think that DOs practicing for over 20 years have sem thoughts on this topic?
 
And then there was...The Gimpel...
As a pre-med, you have an idea that there is an AMA and the DOs seem to have their own, very enthusiastic, group of people advocating for them. This sounds very cool and progressive and you look forward to getting a member ID and number; kind of like a bid to join a very exclusive fraternity.

As a med student, you get an email with a journal link every so often and they now send you an e-card on your birthday as a personal touch. They help organize (not sponsor more than rent a few conference rooms at an overpriced hotel) for their national conference (OMED) which the majority of DOs don't go to, House of Delegates, which the majority of med students and DOs definitely don't go to and DO Day on the Hill, which a few students go to and are greeted by the 3rd line secretary from a Congressman's office for exactly 15 minutes, we beg for more residency slots and that's it. Students mainly go to any or all of these to drink and do other fun things between meetings. Sometimes there are long breaks between meetings, use your imagination...

Yay, I'm a resident! The first thing you get is that sort of ominous yellow paper that wants to know everything about you, the residency you're in, a 5 paragraph essay why it wasn't a DO one and all of the contact information of your program so that they can call them and convice them to be dually-accredited about once a month. I hope this part will be over in a few years.

By now, you've taken a COMLEX enough to see how bad of a test it is and that any score beyond passing should mean nothing more than a pass. If you ask anyone if this is a crapshoot of a test, I'm sure you'll get a lot of very creative answers. I was convinced for a short amount of time that the test was indeed offered in French and Yiddish and they sometimes get the appropriate language switched up! Dr. Gimpel has an odd sense of humor if you get to see it in person, regardless. :)

The AOA has done nothing but make the MD students wonder why you hate them so much when just the opposite is true. They and their programs have welcomed you in with open hearts and laugh about the crazy inner workings of the AOA. By the way, nobody actually votes on the leadership at the AOA. They're picked a few years in advance and paraded around in different committees until the time is right to "elect" them.

And there you go, that's the reality according to one person. I love the DO stuff and feel that I own Muscle Energy, Facilitated Positional Release and Counterstrain most of the time and this has nothing to do with the AOA or NBOME. Giving them surveys that they can bury in private isn't going to help. Getting more public about our concerns and getting more people involved is the only way this will happen. Oh yeah, nobody uses Mercury and Arsenic in the practice of medicine anymore; NOBODY.

OK, back to the Janitor vs. DO thread!
 
And then there was...The Gimpel...
As a pre-med, you have an idea that there is an AMA and the DOs seem to have their own, very enthusiastic, group of people advocating for them. This sounds very cool and progressive and you look forward to getting a member ID and number; kind of like a bid to join a very exclusive fraternity.

As a med student, you get an email with a journal link every so often and they now send you an e-card on your birthday as a personal touch. They help organize (not sponsor more than rent a few conference rooms at an overpriced hotel) for their national conference (OMED) which the majority of DOs don't go to, House of Delegates, which the majority of med students and DOs definitely don't go to and DO Day on the Hill, which a few students go to and are greeted by the 3rd line secretary from a Congressman's office for exactly 15 minutes, we beg for more residency slots and that's it. Students mainly go to any or all of these to drink and do other fun things between meetings. Sometimes there are long breaks between meetings, use your imagination...

Yay, I'm a resident! The first thing you get is that sort of ominous yellow paper that wants to know everything about you, the residency you're in, a 5 paragraph essay why it wasn't a DO one and all of the contact information of your program so that they can call them and convice them to be dually-accredited about once a month. I hope this part will be over in a few years.

By now, you've taken a COMLEX enough to see how bad of a test it is and that any score beyond passing should mean nothing more than a pass. If you ask anyone if this is a crapshoot of a test, I'm sure you'll get a lot of very creative answers. I was convinced for a short amount of time that the test was indeed offered in French and Yiddish and they sometimes get the appropriate language switched up! Dr. Gimpel has an odd sense of humor if you get to see it in person, regardless. :)

The AOA has done nothing but make the MD students wonder why you hate them so much when just the opposite is true. They and their programs have welcomed you in with open hearts and laugh about the crazy inner workings of the AOA. By the way, nobody actually votes on the leadership at the AOA. They're picked a few years in advance and paraded around in different committees until the time is right to "elect" them.

And there you go, that's the reality according to one person. I love the DO stuff and feel that I own Muscle Energy, Facilitated Positional Release and Counterstrain most of the time and this has nothing to do with the AOA or NBOME. Giving them surveys that they can bury in private isn't going to help. Getting more public about our concerns and getting more people involved is the only way this will happen. Oh yeah, nobody uses Mercury and Arsenic in the practice of medicine anymore; NOBODY.

OK, back to the Janitor vs. DO thread!

oh.my.god..... i look so forward to this day. I hope this is around in 2 years when I match so i can rip into the AOA. Why wont i go AOA? Ohh ill let them know alright. Hopefully thats still around with the merge
 
oh.my.god..... i look so forward to this day. I hope this is around in 2 years when I match so i can rip into the AOA. Why wont i go AOA? Ohh ill let them know alright. Hopefully thats still around with the merge

is this tied to licensure? Otherwise, can it just be ignored?
 
I hope you aren't implying anything here. If you are I invite you to read both of my posts in full context. The whole point of the exchange between me and that other poster was that simply mentioning it in any capacity, even in the capacity of potential perception by future theoretical people, is often too much for the fragile pre-DO ego to handle. Don't play right into that by feeling compelled to address what WASN'T said ;)

Most def a premed issue.
 
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