AOA's response to "The Soprano's"

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MSafur

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I was just browsing through the AOA's website for members/students and I came across a letter that the AOA sent to HBO regarding their ignorance of the DO profession. They urge all students and other medical professionals to get involved and send a letter to HBO (they include a sample letter). Visit:

http://www.aoa-net.org/Students/students.htm

to learn more and get further information. Help raise people's knowledge about DO's.


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I think the Sopranos is a great show, and I enjoy it each week. However, I am pissed that they would rip on the osteopathic profession. Those slimy, white-trash, disguting, slobs.....outa know better.
-your most angry and volatile Liquid
 
what was the episode about, what did they say??
 
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Here is what was said on the episode of March 11:

During the scene in which character Tony Soprano suggests to one of his former mobster's nephews that he should become a doctor, the nephew responds by explaining the difficulties of earning an allopathic medical degree (M.D.). He goes on to say, "I was even thinking maybe osteopathy, but I don't think I have the grades for that even." This ignorant statement leads viewers to believe that osteopathic physicians (D.O.s) are inferior to M.D.s.
 
I saw that episode...and was quite annoyed myself. I read the AOA letter to HBO, and am glad that the issue was confronted.
I just thought better to let it go...but realized that is better to "take the bull by the horns", and address the inappropriateness of HBO's belittling of my future profession!!
Thank you AOA!!!!!
 
I'm not sure if the average person watching a show about a bunch of crooks will sit there and ponder whether or not the character is supposed to be intelligent or some ignorant fool.

The great danger in the way things are presented to the viewing public through various media is that, for the most part, the viewing public DOES NOT question the validity of any statements that are made.

We must assume that only a fraction of the viewing public watching the March 11th episode of the Sopranos understood that there are two types of physicians. Of the fraction who understood that there are two types of doctors, we can assume that only a fraction believes they are equals. For those who are in doubt that DOs are equal to MDs, a comment like that made by Soprano's nephew -- whether or not the kid is as dumb as a plastic Christmas tree -- solidifies many misconceptions.

Forget the rest of the people who don't even have the foggiest idea what an osteopathic physician is. Chances are they didn't even pick it up or may have even thought "osteopathy" was a kind of chiropractor. The danger lies with those who know DOs and who had doubts about their competency.

HBO should be lambasted for their comment, but the AOA's suggestion that the show, perhaps in future episodes, attempt to educate the public about the equality of DOs to MDs is ridiculous. Can you imagine Tony Soprano's nephew coming back to his Uncle and saying, "Gee whiz, Uncle, those osteopaths are trained just like MDs but with something EXTRA!"

Call me cynical, but it's not gonna happen.

------------------
Tim Wu.
 
i entirely expect the AOA to direct a letter towards whatever broadcast carelessly slights osteopathic medicine, or the admissions requirements of osteo. med. schools. however, dr. krpan's response to the television network was somewhat accusatory and confrontational (as if the writers of "the sopranos" should only create considerate and humble characters on a series not commonly appreciated for its intellectual content); and i believe the AOA should've assumed more importance in teaching the significance of the medical degree rather than seek HBOs support in publicizing osteo. medicine because of one inflammatory sentence in a very popular broadcast. the fact remains that many med. applicants do consider osteo. admissions when their personal qualifications are borderline acceptable, and that shouldn't be regarded as either an attack on the quality of osteo. institutions (many of which educate very professional doctors), or the competence of osteo. med. students themselves. i agree that the AOA has an obligation to represent the profession honestly and honorably, and dr. krpan's invitation to learn more about the ultimate fulfillment of osteo. doctors was the appropriate approach.

it was probably a bit hasty of the AOA to expect every osteopathic physician to be offended by a young, imaginative character's remark; i think most established physicians really couldn't care about the 'm.d. vs. d.o.' comparison (a topic that probably deserves its own HBO series). i think you could write gentle e-mail letters to the t.v. network if you feel you have something helpful for "the sopranos" screenplay, or interesting and useful ideas for HBO regarding your profession. it's hardly necessary to correct the writers any further--the AOA has already done that.

p.s. as osteo. students, please be more concerned with the AOAs investigation of u.s. hospitals where they're trying to establish more OPTIs for the growing number of osteo. graduates. "the sopranos" will mean very little when you're completing your residency... unless tony soprano ends up being your attending physician, of course.
 
I didn't see the episode of the soprano's, but I read the quote from the script and I must say it's a little disturbing to me. It seems to imply to viewers that the grades required to get into osteopathic schools should be easily attainable by the average college student. We know this isn't the case since only a select few make it into medical school, osteopathic or allopathic.

NEVERTHELESS, I think the show presented the reality of the way the majority of pre-medical students think and talk, regardless of whether the way they think and talk is accurate. If you don't believe me, take a stroll on down to review.com. The fact of the matter is that many pre-med students, in their ignorance, think of DO schools as backup schools to MD schools. They open up a catalog of academic averages to med schools and they think "hey, osteopathic med schools have lower GPA's and MCATs so they must be easier to get into"--as if osteopathic med schools could care less what your life-background experiences are. And even worse than that, pre-meds think "the quality of these schools must suck compared to MD schools because the admission stats are so low"---as if there's any direct connection between the two. Even my own thoughts flirted with these ideas for a short time before I became educated about the osteopathic profession. In any case, the sorprano's is a drama, which means it tries to portray real situations and real kinds of dialogs as related to the plot. This means it portrayed a real type of dialog that very well could occur with a pre-med student. I know the writers and producers of the show may not know the inner workings of the average pre-med mind, but they know enough that the average pre-med student thinks DO schools are easier to gain admission to because of lower stats.

But I think the crux of the issue here is whether dramas (i.e., movies, sitcoms, etc.) have a responsibility to not present stereotypical content. We all know stereotypes often distort and mislead people, such as what the sorprano's might have done regarding osteopathic medicine. I ask you all, should a drama leave out certain dialogs and situations that often occur in real life for the sake of eliminating certain stereotypes? I tend to want to yell "Of course!", but damn, it sure is going to leave a trail of boring dramas.
 
My ignorant view of osteopathy was it was like radiology, nephrology, cardiology and the like. Just a different MD specialty.

I'd been treated by a DO w/o OMM and viewed the doc as just another MD.

I've obviously learned more since
wink.gif


Dave
 
As much as it pisses me off that someone posts the same topic in multiple forums, I had to put my opinion in THIS thread, too, since this one seems to be getting more traffic.

I wrote a letter to HBO.
This is what I wrote them:

This letter is in regards to the March 11 episode of The Sopranos. The letter is in regards to the comment made about Osteopathic Medicine.

While I understand that a show must convey realism in its episodes, I feel that the comment made regarding Osteopathic Medicine was in error. It is true that the general public considers a career in Osteopathic Medicine something of a lesser challenge, but I assure you that this is a pure misconception that should be explained. I feel that when Popular Culture tends to create a label regarding a certain profession, impressionable minds tend to agree with the misconception without any validity to the statement, therefore perpetuating a misconception. I urge you to realize that there are mass amounts of professionals working to erase this stigma, and hope that you can work to help their cause.

Thank you for your time.

--

I remind all, however, that even though this shouldn't have happened, the show is about a bunch of uneducated, murdering mafia bigots. They're supposed to be stupid. The big draw on the show is its realism, and I hope that we all can acknowledge that. To re-iterate what someone said earlier: They shouldn't try to educate people through the show (that's not why the show runs), but they should be more careful about what they say, so the wrong things aren't said. If the AOA guys get their way, the "Sex In The City" girls will start dating a DO, who will go into a long-winded explanation about what he does. Maybe "Oz" will feature a DO in the infirmary!

Just my $0.02



------------------
--
KidT
[email protected]
 

Hey friends:

This is a draft of a long-winded letter (I will edit it), which I am going to mail this weekend Although I am not sure how much good it will do in regards to its intended target, I still think it is worth the effort. I wanted to share it with all of you before I cut most of it out. Even though it is a little too detailed to send to HBO, I think it would serve a good purpose on this board. Feel free to disagree with me; however, I want to make sure that this thread does not turn into a flaming MD vs. DO thing. It is my belief that this subject is a professional issue and one that we should all attempt to ameliorate. D.O.?s have come a long way since almost being wiped out as a profession by the efforts of the AMA. The majority now considers D.O.?s and M.D.?s as equals. Although, there is still a large part of the general population that does not know what a D.O. is. This is also something we must work on.
With that said, I invite my fellow osteopathic, and interested allopathic, students and physicians to embrace this type of issue both now and in the future, but not to take it as a personal insult. We are in the later stages of the process of overcoming many years of professional prejudice. It is a well-known fact, that getting past history is something that is difficult to do. Especially when it involves something like medicine, which is very much inundated with ego, prestige, money and turf-war concerns.
The osteopathic profession has come a long way. In the last three decades, the number of schools has more than tripled. Moreover, the number of practicing D.O.?s has gone from 29,000 to nearly 50,000 since 1990. D.O.?s are indeed here to stay. When we argue against this type of comment, it is important to do it based on the facts and by focusing on strengths. Do not resort to emotionally fueled personal attacks, insults or name-calling--this is especially true on this board.
In addition, I caution everyone who is truly proud to be a D.O. to not go overboard with the, ?we are equal and we are the same? arguments. If this is true then we might as well change the initials to M.D. and do away with D.O. altogether. (As an aside, in regards to the ?initials-issue?, I would consider supporting a change to something like MD-O, but never a complete change doing away with the ?O?.) The differences between osteopathic and allopathic medical education is more than just OMT; there is a lot more to Osteopathic Principles and Philosophies than that. Upon graduation, D.O.?s often go into ACGME residencies, but their roots are still Osteopathic. Like the old saying goes, ?You can take the D.O. out of the osteopathic institution, but you can never take all of the osteopathic institution out of the D.O.?

Cheers
smile.gif
,
Dale

Dear Mr. Albrecht:

I am sure you have received some rather pointed letter?s regarding the comment concerning osteopathic medical education on your March 11 episode of The Sopranos. I am not upset in anyway, instead, I think what happened demonstrates the misconceptions that some have toward D.O.?s in general. I would like to take several minutes of your time to anecdotally address this issue.
I was introduced to Osteopathic Medicine while serving as a medic in Army Special Forces, several of the battalion physicians, residents and attendings whom I know, are D.O.?s. In fact, at the time, the recently retired and current Dean for the University of North Texas-Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine was the U.S. Army Surgeon General. As I contemplated applying to medical school, I researched the history of medicine and public health; the needs of the U.S. Health care system, as well as the mission/goals of a number of schools. This combined with my experiences in both civilian and military health care, contributed to my 1998 decision to leave active duty service in order to finish my undergraduate degree and pursue medicine as a career. In the summer of 2000, I applied to several medical schools, both M.D. and D.O. I received multiple interviews and was blessed with multiple acceptances. In the end, I choose to attend an osteopathic medical School.
Osteopathic Medicine began over a hundred years ago, as a reformation movement to change many things that was wrong with the practice of medicine. In the past, it certainly was not without its own problems, but has indeed contributed to changing a number of shortcomings within the medical profession. For example, D.O. schools where among the first to admit women and minorities. In addition, they have arduously worked to help correct the imbalance between specialty and primary care physicians. In addition, they are renowned for training a number of physicians that go on to practice in underserved areas. Osteopathic medical education has always focused on primary care and preventative medicine in an attempt to keep people healthy, provide early diagnosis, and treat illness before it progresses into a chronic condition. The philosophy centers on an elaborate whole body approach, as well as the idea that physicians do not heal, but rather assist the body to heal itself using osteopathic principles and philosophies, medicine, therapy and surgery. Well over 60% of graduates enter primary care specialties (e.g. Family Medicine, Obstetrics and Pediatrics). In addition to this though, a number of D.O.?s do go on to specialize and provide extremely competent, personable care, while still incorporating osteopathic principles and philosophies (OPP is much more than manipulative manual medicine; I invite you to learn more about it.)
As far as grades and MCAT scores go--which is the point of contention brought to light in your show--D.O. schools do have a slightly lower average. Do not let the ?average issue? wipe out the fact that the range of GPAs and MCATs in both MD and DO schools range from around 3.0 - 4.0 and 20 - 39, respectively. The lowest, MCAT score I personally know of was a ?19? and this person was admitted to a major state M.D. school. Moreover, I can personally name about 10 students from my school that had MCAT scores ranging from 19-25 who are now students at major state MD schools...there is a slightly growing sentiment that numbers are limited in determining how good of a doctor one will become.
There are some noteworthy reasons that contribute to the slightly lower number-averages among D.O. student matriculates; I will mention I few. Osteopathic students are statistically more likely to come from non-traditional, blue-collar backgrounds. They have a higher number of older students, married students, as well as single parents. Because of that, these students are more likely to have worked their way through college and had less time to study for classes and the MCAT. Admission committees recognize that a person with a 3.4 science GPA, who worked in college, is just as academically qualified as a student who did not work and earned a 3.8. (With that said, I recognize that there are a number of students that work 20-40 hours per week and still manage a 4.0; these students are truly commendable). In addition, this type of student would be at a disadvantage when applying to more prestigious institutions, because they would most likely be missing coveted research experience. Some would argue that this type of student is more likely to practice primary care. In addition, some would say that because they have more life experiences they can better relate to the average patient. This is something that both osteopathic and allopathic institutions look for when trying to identify applicants likely to pursue primary care.
I second the AOA?s invitation to you to learn more about D.O. education, and I hope that you make an attempt to correct the misconception that you contributed to on your show (even though I am not quite sure how you could do this). I also invite you to read ?Osteopathic Medicine: A Reformation in Progress,? published in January of 2001.

?When I say primary care, I mean the caring of patients. I don?t know whether it was by teaching, by precept or by tradition, but osteopathic physicians have always understood that women and men are a trinity. They are souls, that they inhabit bodies, and they have a spirit. I think the people who really initiated whole person medicine and made it a formality in this country were osteopathic physicians. I think all of us should take our hats off to you about that.? C. Everett Koop, MD, former-U.S. Surgeon General, commemorating the 100th anniversary of the Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine, April 29th, 1999.
 
I didn't know this many people watched the Sopranos. My viewing time for this show is about 3/2 hour total. Furthermore, I can't imagine anyone can take this stuff so seriously.

In retrospect, maybe its a blemish on ost med's white coat for overreacting to this HBO incident. Why would anyone take a statement from a mobster-spoof series and shed light on the insecurities that seemingly, even in this day and age, plague the ost med community.

My recommendation: nevermind the Sopranos and lets work on building a strong, ethical, academically and clinically excellent osteopathic medical community.

[This message has been edited by adismo (edited March 28, 2001).]
 
I am normally a pessimist, but I see two positives in this whole thing

1) At least they mentioned Osteopathic Medicine. When most shows discuss medical education they only talk about MD schools.

2) The dummy with low scores didn't get in! Imagine if he would have said his grades sucked but he still got into to a DO school. I think that would have been much worse.

I still think the comments were out of place, but I don't think they are going to create a great dent in the public's perception of DO's. I would guess that the majority of those watching the show said, "Oste-what school?. What the hell is that?" It actually might lead someone to look up Osteopathic medicine and see what it is all about. Sorry for being so POSITIVE!!!!!

[This message has been edited by Pikevillemedstudent (edited March 28, 2001).]
 
I agree with pikevillemedstudent. DO's have bigger concerns, like developing more OPTI's to give DOs more practicing opportunities and exposure. Let the AOA do its job, support them by writing a letter, but don't lose so much sleep over this. It just seems like we DOs are insecure about our status in the health care community.

TNT, COMP 2005
 
Pikevillemedstudent,

That is exactly what I thought to myself when watched the show. I think we should all be glad that there was at least a mention/recognition of D.O.'s.......and take it easy a little.......
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