Apathy towards neuropsych career

[WisNeuro]

Yeah, this went about where I thought it would

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[deleted75966]

You are off a tad. You want to account for an explanation implying a possible valid relationship.You need numbers of each subtest, it's percentage to the whole and any other reasons to explain your data. Look at the subtype. They have the same problem in medicine. Look at the reliability numbers for the prostrate test. Would you base any decision on those odds? You are using a neologism to look good. The WAIS was never intended to be used by people who have no idea how IQ "works."Good luck passing the test. 50 years ago at Stanford were Ernest Hilgard and Lewis Terman. Who teaches at your School? Funny

I've attended a class with Hilgard on EEG/hypnosis. Also with Karl Pribram.

I will note that Terman is an interesting one.

"In the same year [1916] Lewis Terman, in the manual accompanying the Stanford-Binet Intelligence Test, referred to the higher frequency of *****s among non-white American racial groups stating that further research into race difference on intelligence should be conducted and that the "enormously significant racial differences in general intelligence" could not be remedied by education."

“High-grade or border-line deficiency... is very, very common among Spanish-Indian and Mexican families of the Southwest and also among negroes. Their dullness seems to be racial, or at least inherent in the family stocks from which they come... Children of this group should be segregated into separate classes... They cannot master abstractions but they can often be made into efficient workers... from a eugenic point of view they constitute a grave problem because of their unusually prolific breeding” (

"Perhaps a median IQ of 80 for Italian, Portuguese, and Mexican school children in the cities of California would be a liberal estimate. How much of this inferiority is due to the language handicap and to other environmental factors it is impossible to say, but the relatively good showing made by certain other immigrant groups similarly handicapped would suggest that the true causes lie deeper than environment." (Mental and Physical Traits of a Thousand Gifted Children, Volume 1, 1925, p. 57)

Terman joined the Human Betterment Foundation, a Pasadena-based eugenics group founded by E.S. Gosney in 1928 which had as part of its agenda the promotion and enforcement of compulsory sterilization laws in California.


Sounds fantastic.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Did I miss something vital during grad school. Don’t really know what Omega Squared is. Somehow I squeaked through all the hoops without this vital knowledge. Fortunately, I do know the difference between validity and reliability. Is the prostate test a psych test that I need to know to? Man I really need to go back to school. Or is this the digital rectal exam where the doc manually assesses your prostate gland.
*Insert gloves up meme here*

 

[WisNeuro]

Did I miss something vital during grad school. Don’t really know what Omega Squared is. Somehow I squeaked through all the hoops without this vital knowledge. Fortunately, I do know the difference between validity and reliability. Is the prostate test a psych test that I need to know to? Man I really need to go back to school. Or is this the digital rectal exam where the doc manually assesses your prostate gland.
*Insert gloves up meme here*

Just a simple measure of effect size. However, hardly all that useful in the neuro realm. I'd say we are more concerned about things like classification accuracy, sensitivity, specificity, NPV, PPV, etc. Omega is simply another effect size like eta squared, that has more usefulness in smaller samples. Good for some proof of concept work, next to useless in classification accuracy work.

 

[Australianrugbyplayer]

IF you are referring to interpreting a WAIS, this is just word-salad nonsense.



I assume you're referring to PSA tests, but that's not a very good analogy here. The issue with PSA tests is determining the appropriate cut score to have the most ideal sensitivity and specificity, detecting as much aggressive prostate cancer as possible while limiting the numbers of unnecessary interventions.

The problem in your neuropsych scenario is you inappropriately using the wrong tests and too few tests.



Are you serious?

Let's go back and look at what I wrote:



If these are "neologisms" to you, you have absolutely no business lecturing anyone here about statistics or assessment. These are basic, first-year topics about which you don't seem to have the slightest grasp.



Is the test knowing that administering a WAIS (and only a WAIS) on a referral question about dementia is scientifically and clinically unsound?



Um, people who aren't racist eugenicists that bastardize their own research in service of personal bigotry?

Regardless, there have been incredible advances in the past half century in all of psychology, but especially in clinical psychology. You clearly haven't kept up with anything, but your incredible hubris.

 

[Australianrugbyplayer]

Some facts here

The WAIS was never intended to be used to define anything but IQ as it relates to education. Right from the start some psychologists tried to make conclusions based on intra data scatter. A group of academic psych pointed out that intra data variation is normal with normal people. That led to putting all data in the instruction book for the professional to use. In comparing Dig symbol to over all nonverbal IQ , you look up the age and see the correlation. It is very low. That's what I mean by no reliability, no validity. In fact you can use 2 verbal, information and vocabulary and one nonverbal block design and get most of the IQ. Saves time and is useful. You can look up these datum.

Now, as one here pointed out few people were ever trained in the Wais, unless you were in a school psych program or were in a midwest school. My school taught a Intelligence testing class and I took. it. The professor said to be qualified you must give 500 Binet's/ The class took that hard, half quit and the rest were in for a surprise. He came in the next class and reduced it to 50. He wanted to cut class size. How many neurop have had formal training in the WAIS? None here . It like the guy said, go to a weekend class and get new business cards

Omega squared is the correlation squared in most cased. It illustrated volume into the mistaken confusion between Correlation and causation. A Wais subtest correlated to over all IQ at say .4. Common number square that and you get the illustration that 16% of a is a part of b. Which means that 84% of you variable you are interested in is related to something else . Conclusions, opinions based of subtest analysis of the WAIS-R is doomed to failure and if your report goes to court the attorney will make you wish you had never gone in that direction.

Now the good news. The WAIS was so expensive to norm, there will never be another that looks as good. If you place gifted kids, 132+98%, it's a good test. If you are white it is a good test. That's about all. Talent is much more important than IQ.

The gate keeper here has thousands of posts. He is also an dingus. This is my 2nd and last day. Life is to be enjoyed. Post 1000' opinions is a hard way to live. Natsy posts. Others point that out to you. Go out and talk to people, get a real job and close down the machine. Who knows the real background of people here. This place is set up for Pre md students. They are for the most part polite folks.

I am not "running away.' I enjoy life. This place has no meaning nor interest for me.

 

[WisNeuro]

Who here had formal training in the WAIS? *raises hand* An entire class even. Same goes for the MMPI. Bye, Felicia.

 

[erg923]

Some facts here

The WAIS was never intended to be used to define anything but IQ as it relates to education. Right from the start some psychologists tried to make conclusions based on intra data scatter. A group of academic psych pointed out that intra data variation is normal with normal people. That led to putting all data in the instruction book for the professional to use. In comparing Dig symbol to over all nonverbal IQ , you look up the age and see the correlation. It is very low. That's what I mean by no reliability, no validity. In fact you can use 2 verbal, information and vocabulary and one nonverbal block design and get most of the IQ. Saves time and is useful. You can look up these datum.

Now, as one here pointed out few people were ever trained in the Wais, unless you were in a school psych program or were in a midwest school. My school taught a Intelligence testing class and I took. it. The professor said to be qualified you must give 500 Binet's/ The class took that hard, half quit and the rest were in for a surprise. He came in the next class and reduced it to 50. He wanted to cut class size. How many neurop have had formal training in the WAIS? None here . It like the guy said, go to a weekend class and get new business cards

Omega squared is the correlation squared in most cased. It illustrated volume into the mistaken confusion between Correlation and causation. A Wais subtest correlated to over all IQ at say .4. Common number square that and you get the illustration that 16% of a is a part of b. Which means that 84% of you variable you are interested in is related to something else . Conclusions, opinions based of subtest analysis of the WAIS-R is doomed to failure and if your report goes to court the attorney will make you wish you had never gone in that direction.

Now the good news. The WAIS was so expensive to norm, there will never be another that looks as good. If you place gifted kids, 132+98%, it's a good test. If you are white it is a good test. That's about all. Talent is much more important than IQ.

The gate keeper here has thousands of posts. He is also an dingus. This is my 2nd and last day. Life is to be enjoyed. Post 1000' opinions is a hard way to live. Natsy posts. Others point that out to you. Go out and talk to people, get a real job and close down the machine. Who knows the real background of people here. This place is set up for Pre md students. They are for the most part polite folks.

I am not "running away.' I enjoy life. This place has no meaning nor interest for me.

That's a long post for an old timer. Did you get winded typing it?

 

[PsyDr]

For someone who says he has no interest and has declared he’s leaving the discussion, you sure come back a fair amount.

Wanna cite some sources for your “facts”?

 

[psych.meout]

Some facts here

The WAIS was never intended to be used to define anything but IQ as it relates to education. Right from the start some psychologists tried to make conclusions based on intra data scatter. A group of academic psych pointed out that intra data variation is normal with normal people. That led to putting all data in the instruction book for the professional to use. In comparing Dig symbol to over all nonverbal IQ , you look up the age and see the correlation. It is very low. That's what I mean by no reliability, no validity. In fact you can use 2 verbal, information and vocabulary and one nonverbal block design and get most of the IQ. Saves time and is useful.

Are you trying to say, in your characteristically incomprehensible manner, that there's a high base rate of variable scoring, to the degree that it's not uncommon for people to have an index score that is significantly different from their other indices or FSIQ?

Great, you've caught up to the first month of one of my first semester courses!

You can look up these datum.

"Datum" is the singular of "data."

Now, as one here pointed out few people were ever trained in the Wais, unless you were in a school psych program or were in a midwest school. My school taught a Intelligence testing class and I took. it. The professor said to be qualified you must give 500 Binet's/ The class took that hard, half quit and the rest were in for a surprise. He came in the next class and reduced it to 50. He wanted to cut class size. How many neurop have had formal training in the WAIS? None here . It like the guy said, go to a weekend class and get new business cards

Are you serious?

Most grad programs have multiple assessment courses, including whole classes on intellectual assessment and their psychometrics, as well as dedicated neuropsych courses.

Have you ever heard of the Houston Conference Guidelines? Hell, are you even familiar with the assessment hours requirements of many non-neuropsych, APA-accredited internships?

Omega squared is the correlation squared in most cased.

Um, you mean the coefficient of determination?
Coefficient of determination - Wikipedia

It illustrated volume into the mistaken confusion between Correlation and causation. A Wais subtest correlated to over all IQ at say .4. Common number square that and you get the illustration that 16% of a is a part of b. Which means that 84% of you variable you are interested in is related to something else . Conclusions, opinions based of subtest analysis of the WAIS-R is doomed to failure and if your report goes to court the attorney will make you wish you had never gone in that direction.

WAIS-R? Again, are you serious?

It came out in 1981 and was replaced in 1997 by WAIS-III. You do know Pearson is working on WAIS-V as we speak, right?

Now the good news. The WAIS was so expensive to norm, there will never be another that looks as good. If you place gifted kids, 132+98%, it's a good test. If you are white it is a good test. That's about all. Talent is much more important than IQ.

What is "talent?" How are you operationalizing this term? How would you measure "talent?"

The gate keeper here has thousands of posts.

Huh, I guess 758 (as of this comment) is "thousands" now.

He is also an dingus. This is my 2nd and last day. Life is to be enjoyed. Post 1000' opinions is a hard way to live. Natsy posts.

Irony so thick you can cut it with a knife.

Others point that out to you. Go out and talk to people, get a real job and close down the machine. Who knows the real background of people here. This place is set up for Pre md students. They are for the most part polite folks.

I am not "running away.' I enjoy life. This place has no meaning nor interest for me.

Huh, what's the over under on how long it will take before you come back after you've quit this time?

 

[WisNeuro]

#Natsy SDN

 

[deleted343839]

Though my doctoral training included a concentration in statistics, one thing I was never taught was what to say when confronted with a newfangled stats term they didn't teach me in school. This thread has taught me to call it someone else's "neologism."

I was trained on the WAIS-IV. Should I weep for missing out on the "classics"?

 

[PsyDr]

@psych.meout

He isn’t interested in posting in psychology boards! You have to be lackluster to ever burn out, but retiring is different. Life is too short for basic professional terms, intro level stats, spell checkers, assessment techniques from the last 20 years, seeing patients in a professional setting, understanding legal requirements for the profession, maintaining internal consistency so that when you call people names you can handle others returning the favor, etc.

And someone drove from Reno to California to see him!

#natsywomen

 

[WisNeuro]

@psych.meout

And someone drove from Reno to California to see him!

#natsywomen

I still think the original diagnosis was probably correct. I mean, you'd pretty much have to have some cognitive problems to live in Reno. No one of sound mind would choose that.

 

[erg923]

@psych.meout

He isn’t interested in posting in psychology boards! You have to be lackluster to ever burn out, but retiring is different. Life is too short for basic professional terms, intro level stats, spell checkers, assessment techniques from the last 20 years, seeing patients in a professional setting, understanding legal requirements for the profession, maintaining internal consistency so that when you call people names you can handle others returning the favor, etc.

And someone drove from Reno to California to see him!

#natsywomen

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

This is why we NEED boarding as the standard in our field.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Wait, we were supposed to take courses in assessment?

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I am pretty sure that someone who doesn’t know the difference between reliability and validity is not a psychologist. Reading through the posts it appears that this is an individual who has just gathered some information from the internet and doesn’t really understand it.

 

[erg923]

I am pretty sure that someone who doesn’t know the difference between reliability and validity is not a psychologist. Reading through the posts it appears that this is an individual who has just gathered some information from the internet and doesn’t really understand it.

OR

We could accept the harsh reality that training needs to be constantly updated...as this person's thinking is ancient (as well a just flat wrong most of the time), but I've seen it before. mostly in psychologists over 70.

 

[PsyDr]

Forensics 101: In legalese the word “reliable” means “valid”. And the word valid means valid.

Try having to explain that to attorneys for a living.

 

[psych.meout]

OR

We could accept the harsh reality that training needs to be constantly updated...as this person's thinking is ancient (as well a just flat wrong most of the time), but I've seen it before. mostly in psychologists over 70.

Their writing style, terminology, etc. really reeks of someone who was trained long, long ago and hasn't kept up with the field in general (validity and reliability, effect sizes and other basic stats, etc.) and specialty areas (e.g. neuropsych assessment and the WAIS).

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Forensics 101: In legalese the word “reliable” means “valid”. And the word valid means valid.

Try having to explain that to attorneys for a living.

Yes...but do they know about photocopiers....



Opinion | ‘Verbatim: What Is a Photocopier?’

 

[PsyDr]

Yes...but do they know about photocopiers....



Opinion | ‘Verbatim: What Is a Photocopier?’

People are trying to make the definition seem ridiculous, but it's not.

The case is about how the Ohio government scanned public documents and saved them on a hard drive. If one wanted access to the documents, they had to pay for the pages to be printed. The law said it was legal to charge for printed copies. Law firms didn't like paying for the information, and tried to argue that printing for a scan is not the same as a copy. By not paying, the state was basically acting in an administrative role for law firms. The state was using a copy machine to high speed scan the information. The deposing atty is trying to get the clerk to admit that the scanner is a copier. This would mean the law about printing

 

[smalltownpsych]

OR

We could accept the harsh reality that training needs to be constantly updated...as this person's thinking is ancient (as well a just flat wrong most of the time), but I've seen it before. mostly in psychologists over 70.

Their writing style, terminology, etc. really reeks of someone who was trained long, long ago and hasn't kept up with the field in general (validity and reliability, effect sizes and other basic stats, etc.) and specialty areas (e.g. neuropsych assessment and the WAIS).

Actually their writing style appears to be more consistent with a millenial posing as a psychologist. I would take the bet that this person is a poser. I also don't think that reliability and validity are new concepts. Most of the people that taught me about this stuff are over 70 these days.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Mod Note: The thread appears to have largely run its course, with the OP's questions and concerns hopefully being addressed in a way they found to be helpful.