Apparently we're all *****s...

[Minnerbelle]

I was reading this thread on the pre-allo forum where everyone's all outraged by the thought of DNPs being called "Doctor." Peeps are huffin and a puffin about how DNPs practicing as PCPs will take money away from the "real doctors."

Some of these comments are pretty awesome, and even more so since it looks like a huge portion of our pre-allo friends seem to embrace this view. This post highlights it well:

I think I'm still gonna do this because it's ultimately what I want to do...

that being said...for those mother theresa types out there who said "well there's no money in medicine anymore, but hey at least there's the prestige"... bend over and read this article.

I can see JaggerPlate there at home, and out of toilet paper...looking intensely at his acceptance letter haha. Anybody else feel like they may have just had their American Dream ripped out from under your feet?

I feel ya man, I do. I'm not saying this to make fun of you, or to sound self richeous... I myself had to sit around for a while and really think about this... I kinda still am...I never thought I would have to even think about this decision. I thought the greatest decision I would have to make would be school x or school y, not the more broad question of to be a doctor or not to be a doctor.... and I'm scared, I'll admit that. I worry that if I even have to remotely ask this question, then maybe I shouldn't do this.

Honestly, I think the smartest of the smart out there will be those who get into med school, but ultimately decide not to matriculate. Jeez, even in the time it takes me to write this I'm vascillating.

Apparently, the general consensus over there is that sacrificing years of your life to education is *****ic unless you're making $$$ and are worshipped for the prestigious healing hands that you are. I guess that would make a lot of pre-vets super *****s...

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[luplodw]

"richeous"

 

[twelvetigers]

Minnerbelle, don't you have something more important and enjoyable to do besides read the pre-allo forums? Like, I dunno... give your grandmother a pedicure? Put new contact paper in the kitchen cabinets? Count your button collection?

 

[iheartpandas]

I would have to contend that the author of the post you quoted is the super-*****, given the egregious spelling errors on a forum with built-in spell check!

 

[DVMDream]

Minnerbelle, don't you have something more important and enjoyable to do besides read the pre-allo forums? Like, I dunno... give your grandmother a pedicure? Put new contact paper in the kitchen cabinets? Count your button collection?

Speaking of pedicures....there is NO amount of money that would persuade me to do such things as scrap a bunion off someones toe or take a cast off of a stinky foot and any other real gross human things.

 

[badcats]

Speaking of pedicures....there is NO amount of money that would persuade me to do such things as scrap a bunion off someones toe or take a cast off of a stinky foot and any other real gross human things.

I completely sympathize with the anti-foot thing. I think I would rather BE a pre-allo than touch strangers feet, which says something.

As far as *****ic goes, they will feel pretty darn stupid when they are making tons of money and are miserable at work everyday. Sure vet school debt:income blows, but at least it means most of us are in it for the right reasons

 

[organismal]

people doing medicine for prestige is saintly???

(i've been looking for an excuse to use that emote for a while)

and yeah, feet are gross. especially giant blisters that show up on dr. oz's show.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Minnerbelle, don't you have something more important and enjoyable to do besides read the pre-allo forums? Like, I dunno... give your grandmother a pedicure? Put new contact paper in the kitchen cabinets? Count your button collection?

nope, not so much. i needed to do some literature searches for work (which I do not enjoy, and also why i know i'm not suited for academia) and i desperately needed some form of procrastination... but the pre-vet forum was going so freaking slow and nothing was on TV! so i decided to peek right over at our rambunctious neighbors and found this riveting thread. I learned soooo many things! Like that Mother Theresa was in India working with the poor for the prestige. I had no idea!!!

if only i had a life... or a hobby... or a grandma nearby...

 

[sumstorm]

maybe 'self-richeous' was the more approprate term

 

[scb44f]

Some of them have good points in this thread though. I was very bored last night and read it... Some are more concerned about what kinds of doors this opens up, and the fact that this could lead to more autonomy in fields that require specialized doctors. I'm not sure how I feel about that but they aren't arguing just over money (not all of them anyway).

 

[Minnerbelle]

Some of them have good points in this thread though. I was very bored last night and read it... Some are more concerned about what kinds of doors this opens up, and the fact that this could lead to more autonomy in fields that require specialized doctors. I'm not sure how I feel about that but they aren't arguing just over money (not all of them anyway).

haha, yeah sorry, i didn't mean to say that ALL of our future physicians or doc-wannabes were crazy. i was just flabbergasted by the number and sincerity of posts that focused on "money and prestige".

 

[scb44f]

haha, yeah sorry, i didn't mean to say that ALL of our future physicians or doc-wannabes were crazy. i was just flabbergasted by the number and sincerity of posts that focused on "money and prestige".

Hah it's all good. I understand what you mean. Some of their comments sure did surprise me like that...

It also feels like a kick in the head when I overhear people saying things like, "Oh man, who would want to be a PCP? You only get paid like $100,000 a year. It's not even worth it to go to medical school. You might as well just shoot yourself in the foot."

Anyway, it is a really entertaining thread, for those who haven't read it yet!

 

[Tiktaalik]

The nurse thing is interesting, especially because if you read the article, the nurses tried to throw us under the bus and say that if vets are called "doctor" without confusion, then they should be too.

I agree though - the default position in pre-allo is that anyone who goes to med school planning on making less than 150k a year is totally naïve, which is absolutely hilarious to read from a pre-vet perspective.

 

[lalzi22]

I'd rather be a ***** doing what I love then ever end up being treated by those pre-allo fools who do it for money. UGH.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

*shrug*

I think they make valid points.

I DO think that if you sacrifice so many years and go into so much debt your school, you DO deserve to be respected and receive a hefty paycheck. It sucks that some don't (vets and some medical specialties). There is nothing wrong in my mind with being rewarded for sacrifices you have made.

Does that make me greedy? I don't think so. But if I slog through four years of college and THEN four more years of medical/veterinary school and THEN 3-6 years of internship/residency, go into hundreds of thousands of $$$ in debt, lose the entire decade of my twenties and then some, being in school or in a low-paying high stress residency working my ass off.....yeah, sorry, I deserve to be rewarded for my services. It's not acting entitled or snobby - it is just fairness.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

The nurse thing is interesting, especially because if you read the article, the nurses tried to throw us under the bus and say that if vets are called "doctor" without confusion, then they should be too

Aye, I admit that ruffled my feathers a tad.

The allo and pre-allo people here are not so bad. Many of them very much respect veterinary students and veterinarians not only because of how little we receive in compensation but in terms of our difficult schooling, the incredible variety of species, etc....

 

[katryn]

Comments that made me LOL:

"Veterinarians (and some other professions) aren't real doctors". To which I respond....then why does our practice have doctors as clients? Why can't they diagnose and treat their own pets? Oh wait, that's right we ARE doctors, just of a different sort.

Lawyers and judges use their professions as titles. Which got me thinking that it would be hilarious to introduce myself as Veterinarian So-and-so, and see how many people get confused.


I'm so glad that vets as a whole don't seem to take ourselves nearly so seriously as all that.

 

[katryn]

*shrug*

I think they make valid points.

I DO think that if you sacrifice so many years and go into so much debt your school, you DO deserve to be respected and receive a hefty paycheck. It sucks that some don't (vets and some medical specialties). There is nothing wrong in my mind with being rewarded for sacrifices you have made.

Does that make me greedy? I don't think so. But if I slog through four years of college and THEN four more years of medical/veterinary school and THEN 3-6 years of internship/residency, go into hundreds of thousands of $$$ in debt, lose the entire decade of my twenties and then some, being in school or in a low-paying high stress residency working my ass off.....yeah, sorry, I deserve to be rewarded for my services. It's not acting entitled or snobby - it is just fairness.

I agree to the point that anyone who provides a service has to set a price on what they think their service is worth, and how much you pay to be allowed (ie. licenced) to perform that service definitely factors into self worth.


**and curse you SDN for always uploading new posts before mine right after I hit post. **

 

[heylodeb]

grrrr....I work with several premeds and we've had a whole bunch of conversations about the similarities between our fields. Hoenstly, I think as pre-vet/vet students we know a LOT more about the pre-med side of things because it's talked about more. I have been surprised to find out that most pre-meds don't know that we take the same prereqs, go to school for the same amount of time, etc. I think a lot of it is lack of knowledge since prevet isn't nearly as popular as premed.

Just my two cents.

P.S. as of yesterday -I do think I'm a *****. I literally bit myself with the mouth of an anesthetized puppy because I was incapable of moving my thumb out of the way. Genius, I am! stinking thing hurts...

 

[BlacKAT33]

i finally read the pre-allo forum you're talking about. i wanted to punch the dude in the face who said "vets, chiropractors, and ___" arent real doctors. first of all, we're completely different than the other degrees he listed. and we are doctors for many species blahblah of course we all know this lol we have the same curriculum as them. anywayyyyyyy, as much as i wanted to blow up on that person...i just remembered that they now have a huge war with the nurses lol and i actually do feel a lil sry for them because if vet techs were suddenly able to be called veterinarians or if they got paid the same amount, i would be pretty angry myself.

 

[StartingoverVet]

if vet techs were suddenly able to be called veterinarians or if they got paid the same amount, i would be pretty angry myself.

The surgery tech where I volunteer IS paid more than the younger vets at my clinic, as he should be. He has more experience, and they come to him for help, advice, reassurance quite a lot. Hopefully in 5 or 10 years that won't be true anymore as they gain experience and confidence, but it is nice to see to some degree it is still meritocracy!

Of course this is the exception, but we have to remember that salary numbers are averages and individual results will vary!

 

[sumstorm]

We do have this battle in our ranks between LVT and unlicenced techs. At least in some places.

 

[Kaisand]

"Is this a fu*cking joke??? Honestly. What the hell is this? I don't even get how doctors can just bend over and take it up the ass in what feels like monthly intervals.

It's starting to be pretty clear that the role of a doctor with regard to clinical practice is over. The only hope is to manage people in what used to be a doctor's job. They stepped aside and let insurance companies, government, and mid-levels take it over, with very, very little fight.

I'm sitting here with an acceptance in hand, trying to physically convince myself to consider diving into this mess, and I really don't know if I even can. It's a joke.

Somehow the fu*cking nurses were able to lobby enough power to get absolutely everything they wanted, but there isn't a single organization that can muster up enough defense to stop this bull****?

The AMA can't stand up and represent docs for once? The LCME can't threaten to pull the accreditation of schools like USF that set up these - f*uck around in undergrad, become a DNP, skip the debt, get a derm residency, and make 300k a year programs???

This is a joke?

I'd like to thank everyone who made this possible ... I wonder how long before they are performing surgery???

I think I really may not go to medical school. It's pointless at this stage, and it's only going to get worse."

While I appreciate what is at stake for people who are on the cusp of becoming M.Ds in the midst of health insurance reform and shifts in healthcare supply and demand...

...it nonetheless sounds like someone could have benefited from a tad bit more f*ucking around in undergrad.

wowza.

The previous poster in this thread noted some tensions between licensed and non-licensed vet techs. Does dynamic mark a potentially explosive debate? This is something I have not encountered yet in my limited experience at vet clinics. I'm very interested in other people's observations about it.

 

[sumstorm]

I don't know if it will be *explosive* but it is pretty touchy, particularly in states that have LVT schools programs, but where LVT's don't have very specific differences in duties than unlicenced VT's. There are some efforts to push for LVT's to make more, and in some states only LVT's can do certain work. And in some places LVT's are kind of like specialized nurses; able to do many duties without direct supervision...but because vet med is more nebulous, it isn't yet as regulated.

I am grateful that my friends in medicine, for the most part, support greater health care for their patients; then again, most of them work in grant funded programs because of their beliefs. I admit, if we started calling LVT's Dr, I wouldn't be thrilled, but I hope to work with LVT's with specialized skills when I become a vet and think individuals who are well trained/educated can be incredibly valuable, both for the patients and clients and vets, but also for the health of the clinic (financially and otherwise.) But it wouldn't mean I would think the entire profession is worthless (but maybe that is because we still have 'farmers' doing lots of procedures that I believe should be performed by vets.)

 

[katryn]

The previous poster in this thread noted some tensions between licensed and non-licensed vet techs. Does dynamic mark a potentially explosive debate? This is something I have not encountered yet in my limited experience at vet clinics. I'm very interested in other people's observations about it.

I think it totally depends on the location you're in and your state's regs on what LVT's can do. In Tennessee there isn't much difference between LVT's and unlicensed assistants other than title. I've worked for several veterinarians who avoid hiring LVT's like the plague because they can pay an unlicensed pre-vet a lot less to do the same work.

 

[HopefulAg]

Same thing here Katryn.

Plus a couple of the clinics I've worked at don't seem to like LVTs because:
1) They can train an unlicensed tech on the job for much cheaper, with the same end result
2) LVTs out of school seem to have a lot of theoretical knowledge but little actual experience, so they're going to end up training them anyhow (and pay more to do it)

 

[marycatherine]

P.S. as of yesterday -I do think I'm a *****. I literally bit myself with the mouth of an anesthetized puppy because I was incapable of moving my thumb out of the way. Genius, I am! stinking thing hurts...

I have scratched myself with cats! As in have walked by them/moved past their claws and effectively scratched myself. I've also stabbed myself with the blue juice before-- I was absolutely petrified while my boss was laughing so hard. Apparently a little bit will only make you numb, though I don't recommend trying it.

 

[cowgirla]

I have scratched myself with cats! As in have walked by them/moved past their claws and effectively scratched myself. I've also stabbed myself with the blue juice before-- I was absolutely petrified while my boss was laughing so hard. Apparently a little bit will only make you numb, though I don't recommend trying it.

I got splattered across the face with blue juice once. It tastes nasty, and leaves the most disgusting after taste. And yes, it will make you a little numb, especially on the mucus membranes.

the good news is, no harm done according to poison control! You'd have to splatter like 5 bottles on yourself to do much damage.

 

[DVMDream]

I have also poked myself with the blue juice. And just got laughed at. It did make my finger numb. I am also very good at accidently poking myself with needles, including one time in which I was just stupid and tried to put the cap back on and missed the cap completely and poked my finger. The other tech was laughing sooo hard she said it looked like I was aiming for my finger.

 

[No Imagination]

"Veterinarians (and some other professions) aren't real doctors". To which I respond....then why does our practice have doctors as clients? Why can't they diagnose and treat their own pets? Oh wait, that's right we ARE doctors, just of a different sort.

I plane is about to crash on the boarder of US and Canada. As its going down, a man faints and coughs up blood, the flight attendant yells "Quick, is anyone a doctor?". A Judge, a lawyer, a PhD, and a Chiro all raise their hand...

Thats all i got

 

[twelvetigers]

If the plane is going down, who cares about one guy fainting? Is he the pilot?

Just askin'...

 

[katryn]

I have scratched myself with cats! As in have walked by them/moved past their claws and effectively scratched myself. I've also stabbed myself with the blue juice before-- I was absolutely petrified while my boss was laughing so hard. Apparently a little bit will only make you numb, though I don't recommend trying it.

I feel mildly silly asking, but what is blue juice? I can't for the life of me think of anything we use for anestesia/euthanasia that is blue! It's making me doubt my experiences! Chlorahexiderm is the only thing that comes to mind and while it tastes horrible, it doesn't make you numb.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I feel mildly silly asking, but what is blue juice? I can't for the life of me think of anything we use for anestesia/euthanasia that is blue! It's making me doubt my experiences! Chlorahexiderm is the only thing that comes to mind and while it tastes horrible, it doesn't make you numb.

Some euthanasia solutions like Fetal-Plus are blue. The shelter I worked at used it since the color seemed less disturbing when doing owner present euthanasias (or at least that's what I was told).

 

[SilverSpyderGT]

Comments that made me LOL:

"Veterinarians (and some other professions) aren't real doctors". To which I respond....then why does our practice have doctors as clients? Why can't they diagnose and treat their own pets? Oh wait, that's right we ARE doctors, just of a different sort.

Lawyers and judges use their professions as titles. Which got me thinking that it would be hilarious to introduce myself as Veterinarian So-and-so, and see how many people get confused.


I'm so glad that vets as a whole don't seem to take ourselves nearly so seriously as all that.

I saw that, too. It's REALLY hard not to respond to that, but you touch anything having to do with MD vs. DVM on the pre-allo boards, and soon you have a full-out flame war going. It's really not worth the energy to get into it with them. Remember, folks: Don't argue with idiots, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

 

[lalzi22]

I feel mildly silly asking, but what is blue juice? I can't for the life of me think of anything we use for anestesia/euthanasia that is blue! It's making me doubt my experiences! Chlorahexiderm is the only thing that comes to mind and while it tastes horrible, it doesn't make you numb.

Ours (euthasol) is HOT pink, so maybe thats what you see?

 

[marycatherine]

I feel mildly silly asking, but what is blue juice? I can't for the life of me think of anything we use for anestesia/euthanasia that is blue! It's making me doubt my experiences! Chlorahexiderm is the only thing that comes to mind and while it tastes horrible, it doesn't make you numb.

our fatal-plus is blue, so we call it the blue-juice because that sounds a lot nicer than "fatal plus". some people call it the pink-juice?

 

[marycatherine]

I have also poked myself with the blue juice. And just got laughed at. It did make my finger numb. I am also very good at accidently poking myself with needles, including one time in which I was just stupid and tried to put the cap back on and missed the cap completely and poked my finger. The other tech was laughing sooo hard she said it looked like I was aiming for my finger.

I've done that before, too! Also my boss stabbed me once while I was restraining and she was drawing blood.

I'm making us sound really incompetent but I swear we're not.

 

[badcats]

Some euthanasia solutions like Fetal-Plus.

Lol I know its a typo but death by babies!!

 

[Tiktaalik]

I've done that before, too! Also my boss stabbed me once while I was restraining and she was drawing blood.

I'm making us sound really incompetent but I swear we're not.

Don't feel bad - I stabbed the supervising vet in the arm with a scalpel during surgery once, and one of my friends injected a pig syringe full of vitamins into the back of a vet's hand. The next day, I stabbed the pad of my thumb with a syringe full of vitamins because I was watching someone else and didn't notice that I'd dropped the cap.

Everybody makes mistakes, some spectacularly stupid, lol

 

[lazyjayn]

Just another reason to go for vet med- everyone pokes themselves with a used *something* eventually... with animals you don't have to go on anti retroviral drugs (usually?).

People are icky!

Also, when I see *****hattery like the pre-allo forum bash fests, I kinda wonder how much is honest belief, and how much is sad posturing designed to cover up less than impressive reproductive parts/ technique...

-j.

 

[BlacKAT33]

so i was bored and the prevet forum isnt moving that much today, decided to take a look at the allo nurse thread lol yay for David standing up for vets!! and it hasnt seemed to start a huge war yet one person even agreed!

anyway, this best part of looking at the allo forum today was this one thread "getting wasted in med school" first of all, the OP is such a troll. but its sooo funny. and if you read to the bottom of page one and onto page 2....this PODIATRIST starts posting in the thread mwahahhaa and everyone is like "ur not a real doctor, stop trolling, why are you posting in the allo forum" haha its so funny because it reminds me of brodiatrist and at least we know now that we're not the only people who get trolls. also, why does it seem like a lot of trolls are in podiatry?!? i guess their forum is wayyyy slower than ours they get bored

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=719347&page=2 (for your entertainment) i also suggest reading the OPs first post

 

[purplesaurus]

Some euthanasia solutions like Fetal-Plus are blue. The shelter I worked at used it since the color seemed less disturbing when doing owner present euthanasias (or at least that's what I was told).

Ooooooh! I was wondering, too! We used the pinks stuff.

I thought about chlorhexidine, too, but I couldn't figure out why you would be injecting it...

 

[lalzi22]

so i was bored and the prevet forum isnt moving that much today, decided to take a look at the allo nurse thread lol yay for David standing up for vets!! and it hasnt seemed to start a huge war yet one person even agreed!

anyway, this best part of looking at the allo forum today was this one thread "getting wasted in med school" first of all, the OP is such a troll. but its sooo funny. and if you read to the bottom of page one and onto page 2....this PODIATRIST starts posting in the thread mwahahhaa and everyone is like "ur not a real doctor, stop trolling, why are you posting in the allo forum" haha its so funny because it reminds me of brodiatrist and at least we know now that we're not the only people who get trolls. also, why does it seem like a lot of trolls are in podiatry?!? i guess their forum is wayyyy slower than ours they get bored

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=719347&page=2 (for your entertainment) i also suggest reading the OPs first post

Ive been reading it too...haha I <3 watching them get all worked up.

 

[marycatherine]

Just another reason to go for vet med- everyone pokes themselves with a used *something* eventually... with animals you don't have to go on anti retroviral drugs (usually?).

People are icky!

Also, when I see *****hattery like the pre-allo forum bash fests, I kinda wonder how much is honest belief, and how much is sad posturing designed to cover up less than impressive reproductive parts/ technique...

-j.

I also feel like I've been covered in enough frontline to never worry about fleas/ticks (or to die ten years younger than I would have otherwise... but that's another story.)

 

[eringobraugh]

I realize what I'm about to say may come as a bit of a shock but I LOVE the pre-all forum. I find myself lurking there quite frequently, especially when I'm at work and I've read and re-read all the pre vet threads. I suggest you all check out the thread "getting wasted in medical school" it's classic. They have WAY more trolls over there than we do and there is a funny podiatrist making people angry in that one too.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=719347

Most of the people over there are pretty cool, shocking I kno. But, no one has scared me away from posting my comments (eventhough i've only posted like 5)

 

[Tobysgirl81]

I didn't need the pre-allo people to tell me I'm a *****. 15 years in the vet field has taught me that I must be crazy to do this. But, I love what I do. And at the end of the day? THAT'S what matters to me.

 

[DVMDream]

Ours (euthasol) is HOT pink, so maybe thats what you see?

We actually use sleepaway and it is comes as a clear liquid so we add food coloring to it ourselves to give it a color. So sometimes it is green, sometimes blue, sometimes bright pink, someone tried to do purple once (it was really hard to see if you had gotten into the vein or not so purple is bad). Basically, it is whatever color the person who is adding color to it decides on.

Now off to check the funny pre-allo threads.

 

[CupOfJeaux]

so i was bored and the prevet forum isnt moving that much today, decided to take a look at the allo nurse thread lol yay for David standing up for vets!! and it hasnt seemed to start a huge war yet one person even agreed!

anyway, this best part of looking at the allo forum today was this one thread "getting wasted in med school" first of all, the OP is such a troll. but its sooo funny. and if you read to the bottom of page one and onto page 2....this PODIATRIST starts posting in the thread mwahahhaa and everyone is like "ur not a real doctor, stop trolling, why are you posting in the allo forum" haha its so funny because it reminds me of brodiatrist and at least we know now that we're not the only people who get trolls. also, why does it seem like a lot of trolls are in podiatry?!? i guess their forum is wayyyy slower than ours they get bored

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=719347&page=2 (for your entertainment) i also suggest reading the OPs first post

Haha. Yeh I read that one too. Pre-allos are so entertaining on the inernet sometimes (not so much in real life). Another gem this week was the "personal statement tirade".

To be fair to the pre-allos though (my bf is one so I kind of have to be), I think most of them are normal oandstay away from threads like thoes or just read them for the entertainment.

Also, this past week I went to a second look thing for one of the medschools my boyfriend was accepted to and everyone seemed pretty normal and when they asked me what I wanted to do and said go to vet school they seemed pretty interested and said stuff like, "Oh wow, I heard that is really competivie and there are only a few schools". So it seems like atleast to me most of them know who hard we have to work and know that we are real doctors.

Podiatrist on the other hand... well there is still some questions there about how legit they are.

 

[purplesaurus]

I realize what I'm about to say may come as a bit of a shock but I LOVE the pre-all forum. I find myself lurking there quite frequently....

Not shocking at all. I'm totally with you on this. They are entertaining! (That is, if I can detach myself when they take cracks at vets.)

 

[twelvetigers]

You have to love the names they come up with for euth solutions... Euthasol, Sleepaway. And then there's Fatal-PLUS, because plain old 'fatal' wasn't good enough. Fatal plus what?