Aug 27, 2014
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hi... I am an IMG and I am planning to apply for the match next year. At the time of applying my age would be 21. Would that help me, decrease my chances for residency or have no effect at all ?
 

evilbooyaa

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You are applying for the match at the age of 21?

I'm not sure how it would affect you, all I ask is how in the world? Even the 6-year programs from overseas I assume would have you starting after high school.... so start at 17 if you're young? 23 going into the match?

However, to answer your original question, I think if you display the maturity required to be a doctor it shouldn't really affect you.
 
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xffan624

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hi... I am an IMG and I am planning to apply for the match next year. At the time of applying my age would be 21. Would that help me, decrease my chances for residency or have no effect at all ?
It certainly won't help your chances. Most PD's want mature employees, not child prodigies. OTOH, if you've otherwise demonstrated maturity on your application, then it won't hurt you.
 
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I started my medical school wen i was sixteen and its a five year program here in my country so that is how i would be able to apply.... and here in my country we can go to med school straight after high school
 

tmn

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I cannot imagine that it will help at all. How much it will hurt? That is impossible to say. A 21 year old does not even have enough life experience or maturity to realize how much they lack life experience and maturity.
 

sinombre

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I can't imagine it not hurting on some level. All you can really do is try and convey a sense of maturity at your interviews.

This probably sounds kind of absurd... but if you are a guy, can you grow a beard by chance?
 
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I don't think it's likely to be an issue given that I doubt PDs pay attention to applicants' birth dates.
That being said, if you look or act especially young at your interviews, it could prompt them to take note.
 
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I started my medical school wen i was sixteen and its a five year program here in my country so that is how i would be able to apply.... and here in my country we can go to med school straight after high school
Wow where did you go to school? Are you Dougie Howser?
 
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K
Aug 27, 2014
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Wow where did you go to school? Are you Dougie Howser?
No ,I am from Pakistan... Here in Pakistan,people generally begin medical school when they are around 19. And because its really hard to do USMLE within your medical school (due to difference in the format of the examination) , they start doing their steps once graduated from the medical school. They take about two years on average to complete their USMLE and by the time they apply they are 25-26. I am on average only three younger than my classmates, the only thing that is making me look like a dougie howser is that I would have done USMLE by the time I complete my med school, which makes me two years more younger. I dont think I am immature. Atleast, nobody during my clinical rotations told me such a thing
 
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K
Aug 27, 2014
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I can't imagine it not hurting on some level. All you can really do is try and convey a sense of maturity at your interviews.

This probably sounds kind of absurd... but if you are a guy, can you grow a beard by chance?
LOL... I think the beard really helps me, and i never get it shaved. Beard does give u a margin of 3-4 years sinombre
 

DermViser

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hi... I am an IMG and I am planning to apply for the match next year. At the time of applying my age would be 21. Would that help me, decrease my chances for residency or have no effect at all ?
Finished medical school at 21. Wow! No, your age won't do any of those things unless you were to act very immature at an interview. More likely to affect you will be your IMG status. Make sure you have all your steps completed before applying in the match and do what you need to do, to do well.
 
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OP
K
Aug 27, 2014
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Wow, finished medical school at 21. Wow! No, your age won't do any of those things unless you were to act very immature at an interview. More likely to affect you will be your IMG status. Make sure you have all your steps completed before applying in the match and do what you need to do, to do well.
Yeah, I know that being an IMG is not the best thing you could have in your application. AMG's have to put in much more effort to become an M.D. So, its understandable if they are preferred over the IMGS
 

DermViser

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Yeah, I know that being an IMG is not the best thing you could have in your application. AMG's have to put in much more effort to become an M.D. So, its understandable if they are preferred over the IMGS
Yeah, the traditional age of entrance into medical school is 22. Either way, you can find some place to get involved in research in the meantime, while you're studying and taking the Steps.
 

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Do you have US clinical experience? Or letters of recommendation from US physicians who have worked with you clinically?

Because without that, as a 21 year old applicant with a Pakistani MD, your chances of matching in the US are near zero.
 

DermViser

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Do you have US clinical experience? Or letters of recommendation from US physicians who have worked with you clinically?

Because without that, as a 21 year old applicant with a Pakistani MD, your chances of matching in the US are near zero.
I could be wrong but I believe he has yet to even take his Steps. I would think he would need USCE closer to when he applies for the match.

It's really a Catch-22 for IMGs, they're medical graduates so they can't do med student electives, they can't get a license and get medical malpractice and thus can't rotate independently, and doing an observership is seen as useless by PDs.
 

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Your age will only be an issue if you make it an issue.

When I'm looking for my next intern, I'm looking for someone that I can teach, someone I can trust and someone that is going to be some semblance of a friend in the hospital. I don't care if you are 17 (I had a HS student doing research with me) or 37 (one of our current interns).
 
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DermViser

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You are applying for the match at the age of 21?

I'm not sure how it would affect you, all I ask is how in the world? Even the 6-year programs from overseas I assume would have you starting after high school.... so start at 17 if you're young? 23 going into the match?

However, to answer your original question, I think if you display the maturity required to be a doctor it shouldn't really affect you.
I didn't even know international schools did medical school in 5 years after high school. I thought it was 6 years (although there are programs like that in the U.S. - but I doubt they would take a 15 year old). Although U Chicago-Pritzker had a 21 year old graduate- http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/06/young-medical-student-graduate.html
 
OP
K
Aug 27, 2014
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I could be wrong but I believe he has yet to even take his Steps. I would think he would need USCE closer to when he applies for the match.

It's really a Catch-22 for IMGs, they're medical graduates so they can't do med student electives, they can't get a license and get medical malpractice and thus can't rotate independently, and doing an observership is seen as useless by PDs.
I recently did my step 1 and i got 244 in it. I am planning to do Step 2 CK one month from now and then I have to take my final year exam (which has the same medicine, surgery, gynae/obs and pediatrics). I ll be done with my final year exams near January end. It takes almost three months for the results to come out and that is when I do three months of electives in US hospitals. I plan to do CS after that and maybe do some observerships/externships and apply for the match in 2015.
 

DermViser

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I recently did my step 1 and i got 244 in it. I am planning to do Step 2 CK one month from now and then I have to take my final year exam (which has the same medicine, surgery, gynae/obs and pediatrics). I ll be done with my final year exams near January end. It takes almost three months for the results to come out and that is when I do three months of electives in US hospitals. I plan to do CS after that and maybe do some observerships/externships and apply for the match in 2015.
So you haven't finished medical school yet? It seems like you're already on the right track then. Excellent Step 1 score, by the way!
 
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K
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I didn't even know international schools did medical school in 5 years after high school. I thought it was 6 years (although there are programs like that in the U.S. - but I doubt they would take a 15 year old). Although U Chicago-Pritzker had a 21 year old graduate- http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/06/young-medical-student-graduate.html
Yes all med school programs here are five years programs starting straight after high school. Becoming a doctor at 21 is only 3 years younger than the average of 24 here. You get an M.D after five years of medical school but you have to do one year of internship which we call house job. After that house job you are eligible to apply for the residency training.
 

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Great job in step1! Most of us are doing what you are doing in 8 years... Maybe it is time for us to think about 6-year (3+3) program across the board...
 
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So you haven't finished medical school yet? It seems like you're already on the right track then. Excellent Step 1 score, by the way!
Yeah I m not done with my medical school. I ll be done with my final exams in January and I ll get my results and graduate at the end of apiril which gives me three months time to gain USCE in the form of elective rotations. I just created the thread if I should go for the match with the age of 21 or maybe do 2 years of research after doing my steps and apply as a 23 year old?
 

DermViser

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Yes all med school programs here are five years programs starting straight after high school. Becoming a doctor at 21 is only 3 years younger than the average of 24 here. You get an M.D after five years of medical school but you have to do one year of internship which we call house job. After that house job you are eligible to apply for the residency training.
The traditional age here in graduating from med school is 26 (4 years of college + 4 years of medical school after high school), not 24. Hence my (our) surprise. Even with 6 year programs here that combine undergrad and medical school, the earliest one would graduate is 24, assuming the person graduates from high school in the U.S. at age 18. As you know, medical students here apply for internship (equivalent to your house year) and residency in their 4th year of medical school.
 

DermViser

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Yeah I m not done with my medical school. I ll be done with my final exams in January and I ll get my results and graduate at the end of apiril which gives me three months time to gain USCE in the form of elective rotations. I just created the thread if I should go for the match with the age of 21 or maybe do 2 years of research after doing my steps and apply as a 23 year old?
Based on that, I would not do 2 years of research. I thought you hadn't done any of your Steps and had graduated from med school already. I was just saying it's something to say you were doing in the meantime while getting your Steps out of the way, rather than say you were home and spent 2 years studying for the Step. Your age, as a number, definitely should not be an issue.
 
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Based on that, I would not do 2 years of research. I thought you hadn't done any of your Steps and had graduated from med school already. I was just saying it's something to say you were doing in the meantime while getting your Steps out of the way, rather than say you were home and spent 2 years studying for the Step. Your age, as a number, definitely should not be an issue.
Yeah I hope that my age would not be that big of an issue. I think I can prove my maturity and professionalism in the interview :)
 
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Great job in step1! Most of us are doing what you are doing in 8 years... Maybe it is time for us to think about 6-year (3+3) program across the board...
yeah (3+3) is actually better than five or six years of medical school straight after high school. I remember when I got admission in my medical school I did not realize what becoming a doctor means. Basically at that age you are not even sure whether you would want to pursue medicine as a career or not.
 
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DermViser

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yeah (3+3) is actually better than five or six years of medical school straight after high school. I remember when I got admission in my medical school I did not realize what becoming a doctor means. Basically at that age you are not even sure whether you would want to pursue medicine as a career or not.
All the more reason why programs like that don't exist in the United States as a majority bc it's very hard to make such a life-altering decision in high school (much less even after college when exposure to how real-life medicine is like can be hard to find as a premed). And with tuition for medical school as high as it is in the United States, it can be a financially destructive mistake.
 

DermViser

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Yeah I hope that my age would not be that big of an issue. I think I can prove my maturity and professionalism in the interview :)
There was one Derm faculty person that I know who did medical school in India, completed a derm residency in India, came to the United States and did her Steps and desired to practice the same specialty here, completed several years of derm clinical research (which was unpaid only bc she couldn't get a medical license with no internship) with publications, matched into Derm residency (so essentially redid her entire residency) and stayed on as an academic faculty member. All this with husband and kids.

I really have to respect people who transplant their entire lives to a completely different country. I wouldn't be able to do the same.
 
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All the more reason why programs like that don't exist in the United States as a majority bc it's very hard to make such a life-altering decision in high school (much less even after college when exposure to how real-life medicine is like can be hard to find as a premed). And with tuition for medical school as high as it is in the United States, it can be a financially destructive mistake.
I totally agree with the fact that its impossible for high school students to make such a decision. They might think they have made the right decision, but its not late when after entering medical school you realize that you have chosen something which is not well suited to you. About the medical school fees here, you ll be amazed that in the state funded institutions like mine, the fee is as low as 160 $ per year. but these institutions are highly competitive and only 4 out of 100 aspirants are able to get in
 

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The traditional age here in graduating from med school is 26 (4 years of college + 4 years of medical school after high school), not 24. Hence my (our) surprise. Even with 6 year programs here that combine undergrad and medical school, the earliest one would graduate is 24, assuming the person graduates from high school in the U.S. at age 18. As you know, medical students here apply for internship (equivalent to your house year) and residency in their 4th year of medical school.
So you think (3+3) would not be a good idea... I think it will save students 60k+ since rising tuition is a big issue now... I don't know whether med school right out of HS would be bad idea or not, so I would have to see some kind of studies that can sway me one way or the other.
 

DermViser

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I totally agree with the fact that its impossible for high school students to make such a decision. They might think they have made the right decision, but its not late when after entering medical school you realize that you have chosen something which is not well suited to you. About the medical school fees here, you ll be amazed that in the state funded institutions like mine, the fee is as low as 160 $ per year. but these institutions are highly competitive and only 4 out of 100 aspirants are able to get in
Your tuition is $160 a year!?!!? Pakistan has really good medical institutions also like Aga Khan which are well respected here. What would their tuition be? $320 per year?
 
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Your tuition is $160 a year!?!!? Pakistan has really good anmedical institutions also like Aga Khan which are well respected here. What would their tuition be? $320 per year?
Aga khan is not a state funded med school. Its a private institute. It has a fee of about 15 k $ per year. I study at state funded uni We have to pay around 160 $ Per year
 
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DermViser

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So you think (3+3) would not be a good idea... I think it will save students 60k+ since rising tuition is a big issue now... I don't know whether med school right out of HS would be bad idea or not, so I would have to see some kind of studies that can sway me one way or the other.
Depends very much on the school. Nearly all the ones that started out as 6 years in length (at a time when engineering was much more wanted and medicine was nowhere near as popular as it is today) have either been phased out completely or increased in length from 6 years to 7/8 years. These programs were essentially a way to grab high super achieving students early on in the process, who excelled at the college level (making the undergrad look good) and make the med school look good as well.
 

DermViser

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Aga khan is not a state funded med school. Its a private institute. It has a fee of about 15 k $ per year. I study at King Edward Med University. We have to pay around 160 $ Per year
Here usually the difference between private vs. public is double, although this varies greatly with how well funded the medical school is at the state level, which can vary across all 50 states. Also, people here take federal student loans so not having cash on hand won't limit you (which has probably contributed to exploding tuition rates).
 

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Depends very much on the school. Nearly all the ones that started out as 6 years in length (at a time when engineering was much more wanted and medicine was nowhere near as popular as it is today) have either been phased out completely or increased in length from 6 years to 7/8 years. These programs were essentially a way to grab high super achieving students early on in the process, who excelled at the college level (making the undergrad look good) and make the med school look good as well.
Lol... I did not know that. We don't have that problem now--engineering is nowhere near more popular than medicine now! I actually think making it 3 year undergrad (no degree needed) and 3 year med school would be a good idea in order to put a dent on rising tuition...
 
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DermViser

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Lol... I did not know that. We don't have that problem now--engineering is nowhere more popular than medicine now! I actually think making it 3 year undergrad (no degree needed) and 3 year med school would be a good idea in order to put a dent on rising tuition...
Ironically enough, the reason engineering decreased in being lucrative was bc of the ability to recruit H1 visa holders from other countries who were engineers who didn't have to redo school here in order to work. Quite different in the medical field in which there are certain bottlenecks at specific parts.
 
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I totally agree with the fact that its impossible for high school students to make such a decision. They might think they have made the right decision, but its not late when after entering medical school you realize that you have chosen something which is not well suited to you. About the medical school fees here, you ll be amazed that in the state funded institutions like mine, the fee is as low as 160 $ per year. but these institutions are highly competitive and only 4 out of 100 aspirants are able to get in
This is a minor detail, but US dollar currency symbols are placed before the amount. One dollar is expressed as $1.
You could correctly say 1 USD instead (US dollar).
Oddly, the currency symbol for cents is placed after the amount.


Good luck in the United States!
 
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This is a minor detail, but US dollar currency symbols are placed before the amount. One dollar is expressed as $1.
Oddly, the currency symbol for cents is placed after the amount.

Good luck in the United States!
Thanks for the correction :p
 
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I totally agree with the fact that its impossible for high school students to make such a decision. They might think they have made the right decision, but its not late when after entering medical school you realize that you have chosen something which is not well suited to you. About the medical school fees here, you ll be amazed that in the state funded institutions like mine, the fee is as low as 160 $ per year. but these institutions are highly competitive and only 4 out of 100 aspirants are able to get in


It doesn't matter whether you decide you want to enroll in medical school at age 17 as a high school senior, age 21 as a college junior or any age after college graduation. You still have NO idea what medical school (and by extension, actual medical practice) is about until you start. Getting "life experience" does not make your decision more well-informed, unless you are ruling out other career paths.
 
OP
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It doesn't matter whether you decide you want to enroll in medical school at age 17 as a high school senior, age 21 as a college junior or any age after college graduation. You still have NO idea what medical school (and by extension, actual medical practice) is about until you start. Getting "life experience" does not make your decision more well-informed, unless you are ruling out other career paths.
Getting life experience might not make your decision more well informed but you certainly become more sure what you want to do in life. Here when people start medical school after high school , in the beginning some students feel as if they have made the wrong choice but eventually everybody becomes used to it and start liking medicine. Because once you ve got into a medical school you dont have the liberty of not liking medicine. They just come to terms with it
 
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DermViser

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It doesn't matter whether you decide you want to enroll in medical school at age 17 as a high school senior, age 21 as a college junior or any age after college graduation. You still have NO idea what medical school (and by extension, actual medical practice) is about until you start. Getting "life experience" does not make your decision more well-informed, unless you are ruling out other career paths.
Except of getting to rule professions in and out based on perceived benefits vs. downsides.
 
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A 21 year old does not even have enough life experience or maturity to realize how much they lack life experience and maturity.
While 21 year olds in general may be immature, unusually young medical students/doctors are hardly similar to their peers. Put bluntly, they're far more likely to be a socially inept bore than to be a partying, irresponsible individual.

Even if they were, are a couple years really going to make a difference? 35 year old interns don't think anything of a 10 year gap between them and their peers, but make it 12-14 and it's suddenly a huge deal.
 

DermViser

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While 21 year olds in general may be immature, unusually young medical students/doctors are hardly similar to their peers. Put bluntly, they're far more likely to be a socially inept bore than to be a partying, irresponsible individual.

Even if they were, are a couple years really going to make a difference? 35 year old interns don't think anything of a 10 year gap between them and their peers, but make it 12-14 and it's suddenly a huge deal.
It isn't age. It's the perceptions that go with that age. A 35 year old who goes back has made a LOT MORE pros/con list with respect to that decision vs. an 18 year old.
 

Apoplexy__

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It isn't age. It's the perceptions that go with that age. A 35 year old who goes back has made a LOT MORE pros/con list with respect to that decision vs. an 18 year old.
Well, I agree with that for sure. I was referring to the capacity of a young student to be a physician in terms of his/her maturity and responsibility, as opposed to the informed decision-making ability of said student.
 

tmn

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It doesn't matter whether you decide you want to enroll in medical school at age 17 as a high school senior, age 21 as a college junior or any age after college graduation. You still have NO idea what medical school (and by extension, actual medical practice) is about until you start. Getting "life experience" does not make your decision more well-informed, unless you are ruling out other career paths.
More importantly, life experience builds maturity. As far as maturity goes, I haven't seen an effective surrogate for time. How about things like financial responsibility, working as an employee (not selling Hollister jeans, but actually having bosses at a company), working with members of a team, owning up to a mistake, compromise, sacrifice, integrity, adversity, yada yada yada? Inspirational poster crap. Artificial experiences in high school/college designed to facilitate (simulate) these things (clubs, sports, volunteering, academia, etc) are only a cheap facsimile, in my opinion. There is no substitute for the real deal. Experience is the greatest teacher, or something like that.
 

DermViser

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More importantly, life experience builds maturity. As far as maturity goes, I haven't seen an effective surrogate for time. How about things like financial responsibility, working as an employee (not selling Hollister jeans, but actually having bosses at a company), working with members of a team, owning up to a mistake, compromise, sacrifice, integrity, adversity, yada yada yada? Inspirational poster crap. Artificial experiences in high school/college designed to facilitate (simulate) these things (clubs, sports, volunteering, academia, etc) are only a cheap facsimile, in my opinion. There is no substitute for the real deal. Experience is the greatest teacher, or something like that.
Exactly -- all those things are resume building and don't count. Maturity sounds bad but a lot of workplace behavior is not throwing a temper tantrum when you don't get your way. When you have premeds who have always gotten their way and excelled it leads to unrealistic expectations when an attending gives you a "High Pass" or "Pass", when u think you deserved "Honors" just for attending the rotation and acing the shelf.
 
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