application for air force and civilian residency

Discussion in 'Military Medicine' started by ribcrackindoc, May 6, 2004.

  1. ribcrackindoc

    ribcrackindoc Member
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    I will be applying for the Air Force radiology residency. Do I go ahead and apply for a civilian radiology residency in the case they grant me a deferment?
    Will my rank list look like this?:
    1) Radiology-Air Force
    2) Radiology-deferred
    3) my 2nd choice of specialty-Air Force
    4) my 2nd choice of specialty-deferred

    Sorry about the ignorant question but it was never really explained to me

    Thanks for your input
     
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  3. bobbyseal

    bobbyseal Boat boy
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    From what I know with the Navy, you will not get a full deferment if you put it as your second choice. The only way someone may get selected for a full deferment is if you put it as your first choice. Since GME board is all services, I imagine this is true for the Air Force as well.
     
  4. Heeed!

    Heeed! On target, On time!
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    Since the AF match is earlier than the civilian match, you can't really "ping pong" in and out (sts) of the military match. You can't say I'll take deferment as my second choice and as my third choice, I'd like to select another AF specialty. Therefore, to get your 3rd choice, the AF would have to wait until the civilian match was over to select you, which won't happen. If you don't match to AF rads (your 1st choice), don't get deferment for whatever reason (your 2nd choice), and the AF wants you for your 3rd choice = match to 3rd choice. If you do get deferment but don't match, you'll be scrambling for a civilian spot w/ the others who don't match. My question would be are there any unfilled military spots to scramble into? My thought is no because the AF will meet its needs first. Anyone???
     
  5. militarymd

    militarymd SDN Angel
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    Occasionally, there will be spots that don't fill or open up because of various reasons...people quitting, getting kicked out, etc.

    However, it is more of a hassle to "scramble" into these spots. More people are involved in the decision process....you, program director, detailer, specialty advisor, various comands who needs GMOs....so I would not count on scrambling into a spot.
     
  6. ribcrackindoc

    ribcrackindoc Member
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    thanks for your input, but I'm still a little confused. I want radiology (air force or deferment). If I don't get either of those, I want pathology (air force or deferment). So in my mind, this is the order I want to rank them
    1)rads (air force)
    2)rads (deferment)
    3)path (air force)
    4)path (deferment)

    Are you saying they won't let me rank them this way? How would I rank them then? They never grant deferment to someone's second choice of specialty? Thanks a lot everyone
     
  7. Heeed!

    Heeed! On target, On time!
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    I've tried wrestling w/ the same issue. After soliciting advice and thinking about it the conclusion I came to was I needed to make up my mind what specialty I wanted to go into, and go for it. From what I understand, getting LORs and completing the application process for two specialties is a nightmare. Even if you were able to do that, the AF isn't going to hold off the Path board from meeting until you compete in the civilian match for Rads. Here's the way I think it would work out: If you don't match to Rads and the AF is considering you for deferment, they'll look at your 3rd choice (Path) and see how the AF numbers are looking in that field. If the AF has enough applicants (because the needs of the military come first), then they'd let you get deferred for Rads. If the Path numbers are not looking so good and the AF needs some, you'd probably match to Path. If you rank an AF residency after your #2 deferment choice, I think you're opening yourself up to matching at choice #3. The chances of you being forced into a specialty you don't have on your ROL is slim...you can just go be a flight doc if all else fails. So, it depends on what you value more highly......do you want to match to the CAREER FIELD vs. do want a MILITARY RESIDENCY vs. what LOCATION do you want vs. etc....... If you want the CAREER FIELD, your ROL would look like:
    1) Rads (AF--Lackland)
    2) Rads (AF--Travis)
    3) Deferment (Rads-civilian)

    If you want a MILITARY RESIDENCY, your ROL would look like:
    1) Rads (AF--Lackland)
    2) Rads (AF--Travis)
    3) Path (AF--Lackland)

    Personally, I want to match to the CAREER FIELD. Since I have prior service, I definitely want an AF residency so those years count toward retirement. BUT matching to the specialty is MOST IMPORTANT to me, so I'll apply to every civilian rads residency possible so I can match somewhere...anywhere...if I don't get the military residency. So, ribcrackindoc, what do you value most highly?
     
  8. ribcrackindoc

    ribcrackindoc Member
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    thanks a lot heed, you really helped clear that up for me!
     
  9. Informer

    Informer Senior Member
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    Hmm, does that mean if I want military residency, and i put all 3 as miltary, I'll get it? Even if I'm a poor student?

    eg
    I want to be FP at
    1. Eglin
    2. Andrews
    3. Travis

    Considering FP is a high match rate, I should be guaranteed a military residency?

    Another Q
    Again, lets say im a poor student (notice my trend here)
    I want to be Radiology
    1. Travis
    2. Lackland
    3. some other AF place with radiology (hypothetically, doesnt matter)
    Does that mean I'll get one of those spots or will I be forced into internship then FS?

    thanks
     
  10. Heeed!

    Heeed! On target, On time!
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    The AF "rule" is you won't match to a specialty not listed on your dream sheet. So, you'd most likely do a military intership and then start as a flight surgeon if you don't match. If you don't match to ANYTHING, then I guees the AF would "force" you to be a FS. I doubt they'd "force" you to go into family practice and "force" you to take 3 years of training at the AF's expense. If someone wants to do a military residency and doesn't care what the specialty is, they should list 5 military residencies and they'll match, unless they're a slug and haven't properly evaluated their wish list. If you want to do an AF residency in a particular specialty, do what the rest of us do: work hard, put them on your ROL, have a civilian backup, and pray.
     
  11. Fiend

    Fiend Member
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    Perhaps I can help.
    If you are an average or poor applicant and you rank more than one specialty on your AF rank sheet, you will get the less competitive specialty.
    If are a complete slug and even if you rank 5 specialties just to do an AF residency, you are not guaranteed a military spot for a categorical residency. The AF can easily send you to a prelim year or transitional year. If you are unlucky, you may even get a prelim surgery year (unless that is what you want). Keep in mind that if the AF really wants to pass on you AND you are an HPSP (i.e. not USUHS), you can simply civilian defer you, and you are on your own. If you are trying to get out of an AF residency by simply not ranking anything or avoiding talking to program directors in your 4th year of medical school, you can still get taken by the AF if they really like you and you are strong.
    Basically, do your best and DO NOT rank anything you would not be happy doing. If you really want radiology or bust, then only rank radiology and prelim years.
    If you want AF family practice and they don't want you (AF FP is very popular), they can defer you (leaving you free to pursue civilian FP) if they are giving deferments.
     
  12. Heeed!

    Heeed! On target, On time!
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    I thought prelim and TY were synonymous. ????? Aren't those 2 terms the same thing? Don't you apply for your chosen specialty at the end of prelim/ty vs. catergorical?
     
  13. Informer

    Informer Senior Member
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    Well, based on what I've read above, how can they defer me if I didnt even rank deferment?

    FYI - for my own sake, i'm not a poor student, I'm just looking at worst case scenario :luck:
     
  14. Fiend

    Fiend Member
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    If you are NOT from USUHS or have some other pressing obligation to go immediately on Active Duty (i.e. Air Force Academy?), then they can defer you if they like even against your wishes. Their needs come first, and if they determine that you would be a better asset to them a few years down the road trained elsewhere, then that is that. If they really don't want you in a military program, they can defer you into a prelim or transitional year, not the residency that you may want to do even if you could get it.

    Heeed!
    Prelim and TY are not synonymous. Prelim means a full year of medicine or surgery without continuation in that program. Generally, you have flexibility in Prelim Medicine years (i.e. can do a derm or rads or research month or two). A Transitional Year typically means you do 3 months of meds, peds, surgery, OB/GYN, with some variation and electives. TY is great for residencies like Derm, Rads, Preventive Medicine. TY will not work for IM. Also TY will not work for surgical subspecialties (neither will prelim medicine)
     

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