Applied to Ireland/UK?

Discussion in 'General International Discussion' started by Meese, Nov 2, 2002.

  1. Meese

    Meese MS I
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    On a midnite shift at work right now and am finding myself ridiculously bored - thought I'd start a new thread to try and find all you AB/UCAS-ers out there :D

    So who else has applied, as you may have guessed from my subject line, to meds in Ireland, England or Scotland? Which schools have you chosen...and what is your top one? How are you feeling about the whole process?

    I have apps in for TCD, UCD, RCSI, Bristol, Imperial, GKT and Glasgow....anyone else?


    Cheers all
     
  2. Note: SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. aspiringdoc454

    aspiringdoc454 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
  4. lola

    lola Bovine Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,848
    Likes Received:
    3
    me! but you already knew that :)

    applied to:
    trinity
    oxford

    am withdrawing my application from oxford due to the program not being approved in california.

    i actually need to get my butt in gear on the trinity thing. i think it's due nov 15th right? mine's all ready i just need to make a photocopy of my passport & mail it off.

    i'm feeling a little depressed about the process to tell you the truth. i just can't get all that excited about going for the extra year in ireland. plus the clouds are pretty depressing. i wish it were a shorter time period. ireland would be really fun i think, but i don't know about 5 whole years...
     
  5. Kaptain Krunch

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2002
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    1
    Have any of you tried applying for UCC in Ireland. Pretty good medical school and it's a five year course for everyone (unless English isn't your first language, then you'll have to do pre-med).

    Plus, it's much cheaper to live in Cork than it is in Dublin.
     
  6. Meese

    Meese MS I
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    yay! people have replied to my post!!! :clap:

    lola: do i remember correctly that you're applying abroad in the first place b/c your boyfriend's visa has expired? i thought you said he was Irish.....maybe Trinity would suit you better in that respect? (if i'm completely wrong here, pls do let me know)

    I'm in a bit of a diff. situation, as i'm going for the 6-yr programs (length apparently is not a concern of mine!), but i honestly think the extra year for you would not actually be that bad....i mean, college goes by so quickly as it is, let alone medical college where your schedule is prob. gonna be jam-packed! i understand where you're coming from, but hey, having the chance to study meds is worth it i think! :) and in a very simplistic way, maybe.....
    extra year = a better-prepared doc
    who knows?

    Kaptain Krunch...can't speak for anyone else, but i considered Cork, and i think i ruled them out b/c they only do graduate entry for international students, or something like that? can't really remember, but there was something that didn't mesh with my plans...might also have been to do with requiring the MCAT (if they in fact do), which i haven't written. i have actually heard good things about the school, and lower cost of living would be nice, but unfortunately the program was not for me.
    thanks for the info tho!

    Cheers :D
     
  7. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Messages:
    5,559
    Likes Received:
    12
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Lola, hun, here's something to get excited about :). That "extra year" (assuming you'll be a 5-year direct entrant) is clinical. We get more clinical practice and teaching than our US counterparts. What does that mean? By all accounts I've heard, when we get to doing rotations and electives (some of which should be in the US if you want to work in the US later), we are way more competent. We are able to diagnose based on symptoms, while our US counterparts order dozens and dozens of tests. We go in having a more solid background and being a bit more confident. The Irish schools pride themselves on the competency of their students in the clinical setting. That extra year allows us to not be hurriedly trying to rush through things, makes us more thorough physicians and allows us more time to practice in a clinical setting. A lot of north americans come to Irish schools for that very reason. Not to mention that having more clinical practice really helps for the boards!

    In the grand scheme of things, an extra year is NOTHING. College does fly by. So you'll be 28 instead of 27 when you graduate. Big whoop.

    Ok, well the clouds are something you can't really control. But England is pretty freakin' grey as well, hmm? :) See, I came from Cleveland and the weather isn't so different from Irish weather. The main difference is that Ireland is a lot more temperate (warmer in winter, cooler in summer) and THAT I like :). It does get pretty drizzly here though, but honestly...it's not that depressing.

    UCC is a good school - the standard of education is pretty much very high, no matter which school you choose. Cork is cheaper than Dublin, but it's also a hell of a lot smaller than Dublin :).
     
  8. lola

    lola Bovine Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,848
    Likes Received:
    3
    hey there, i think i was just in a bad mood yesterday! anyway, i'm not sure if i want to go to ireland but am trying to keep my options open. hopefully i will get in to trinity! tomorrow i'm going to mail the application to atlantic bridge.

    i know the extra year is clinical, which is a good thing. i probably wouldn't have applied if it was an extra year of basic science. the thing is, i will not be 28 or 27 when i graduate. i will be almost 28 when i start! eek. i know a year in the whole scheme of things is nothing, but i'm concerned about starting a family too late. i definitely want to have kids in my 30's... if i can find a husband ;)

    i think ireland would be a blast. i had so much fun when i studied abroad in london. i know med school is a different thing, but i found the attitudes of students in england refreshing. talking to my boyfriend (who is irish and is going to have to leave the u.s. in march), it sounds like the irish students may also be a little less cut throat than u.s. students. i think i would really enjoy studying there but also don't particularly want to hassle with being a foreign medical graduate coming back to the u.s. even though i will most likely go into primary care so the fmg thing won't be a huge issue. also, i sort of feel like if i got into trinity and went that i'm making this major life commitment with my boyfriend. england/oxford would have been neutral turf. it's not that i don't want to commit. i just don't know if i'm ready at the moment. but that's another story... plus my family is in california which is really far away.

    do you get summer breaks at trinity?

    i guess not many others are applying this year?? hello?!

    i'm not applying to other irish schools, because my mcat score isn't the greatest. trinity doesn't require it, and the rest of my app is really good (if they like old people like me). my boyfriend wanted me to apply to galway, but they don't seem to take foreign students at their med school.

    enough rambling. anyone else? have you finished your apps meese? i can't believe i filled out that crazy ucas application for nothing!
     
  9. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Messages:
    5,559
    Likes Received:
    12
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Yeah, everyone can understand the family concerns. But the age difference isn't really a problem. It's actually quite helpful, you find that the younger kids actually look up to you, even though you're all learning the same material. Maybe it's cuz we all have degrees and stuff already :). But yeah, if the guy you're with isn't "the one," and you're sort of wary of seeming to make the committment, I'd have a chat to him about it at some point. NUIG doesn't have graduate-entry medicine, it's not set up there yet. But if committment's the thing, it might be better if he's in Galway and you're in Dublin so that you can get some sort of space.

    But the atmosphere definitely is one of the reasons I chose here, it was a major plus in my book. And it's turning out to be quite true...your class as a whole becomes quite close, each class does social things to "bond," etc. And there's definitely more a feeling of comraderie, very little sense of competition. Just everyone tries to help each other out.

    We get summer breaks :). We get christmas breaks. We get nearly the whole month of March off for "easter holiday." It's just a different system :). And we get bank holidays every so often, where we get some random Monday off.

    Yeah, the FMG thing is something you'll have to think about. But coming from an Irish school, that won't be detrimental to you. The medical community in the US already knows how good the Irish students are. You'll have to apply yourself to score high on the boards and stuff, but heck...everyone has to do that.

    Best of luck, anyway :). Trinity's a great place :)
     
  10. lola

    lola Bovine Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,848
    Likes Received:
    3
    sent my AB application in the mail today!

    that's great to hear about the breaks. i guess if i went in ireland i might actually get to see my family more than i would if i went to med school on the east coast.

    oh yeah, and it's not that my bf isn't "the one". it's just that i dont want to be making so many major life decisions all at once. it was hard enough to decide to apply to med school :)

    i remember thinking there was a huge maturity difference between myself and the first years in england when i was abroad my junior year. i wonder what i'd think now! i guess it's not that big of a deal b/c i'd already have instant friends outside school and all...

    don't study too hard ;)
     
  11. Meese

    Meese MS I
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    lola, glad to hear that the app is off! sent my form in a few weeks ago, but the other bits have been arriving in Cali on their own...think my final LOR got there last week sometime, so now it's complete.

    *sigh* such a relief! eeee, but have now entered a new, and entirely suckier stage of stress......waiting. could possibly be more painful than the app stage, as at least then i was preoccupied with producing something, and had obsessive-type control over the entire situation.....

    ah, but thanks to UCAS, can partially satisfy my neurotic tendencies by checking the status of UK apps online...17 times a day. i need help....

    hey leorl, thanks for the advice! you know, even if it doesn't pertain to me directly, i am always happy to see ppl on SDN helping out and encouraging e/o. it's so reassuring!

    i know what you mean about the commitment thing lola, but it's probably something that you two can talk out. did you apply to any US schools this year? just thought that if you hadn't, and were gonna try again next year as an alternative to going to Ireland...well you'd end up graduating in the very same year either way. you've probably already considered that, but thought i would mention it anyway.

    hmm, those are all my thoughts at the moment! hope other ppl chime in with theirs -- there must be more out there who have put in applications??

    Cheers :D


    p.s. lola - yesterday, for the first time, i saw the cheese commercial you got your signature from.....ha ha, up until now i just kinda thought you were crazy! ;)
     
  12. lola

    lola Bovine Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,848
    Likes Received:
    3
    this is a pretty sad showing on this thread :( no one else?

    i didn't know you could log into ucas & check your apps. mine is withdrawn now anyway so i guess it doesn't matter.

    meese, so you you've turned in your apps & are just waiting? do you have to interview at any of the schools?

    i have indeed applied to u.s. medical schools. 25 in fact. unfortunately most are out of my league b/c i hadn't taken the mcat when i applied and didn't end up doing as well as i had anticipated. now i'm a little concerned i don't have enough "safety" schools. we shall see i guess...

    did ab e-mail you when your app was complete?
     
  13. Meese

    Meese MS I
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey lola,

    yeah, Louis from AB emailed me when he got the form that i sent, and then again when he got my last LOR and my app was complete.

    as far as interviews go, the only Irish one that would is RCSI, but apparently the AB stuff doesn't get looked at until after christmas holidays...so i won't be hearing for a while either way! for my UCAS stuff, i have been looking thru some brit forums and ppl have already been getting interviews, but my form was received and processed right on the Oct 15th deadline, so i don't expect any news from them anytime soon either! meh, stuck in the waiting game for the next little while i guess :( but yeah, when UCAS sent my acknowledgment, there was an application number and password included in the letter, so that i can check my status -- kinda useless tho, as i don't think it gets updated with interviews, just after you've gotten an offer or been rejected -- so it could only be the bearer of bad news for me at this point...don't know why i check it so often! :laugh:

    hey, do you pay a fee in the US for each med school you apply to, or is there some sort of one-time fee? i've read a lot of posts where ppl have applied to 25 or 30 like you -- just wondering how that process works? when do they usually start giving out acceptances? if it's later than the Irish schools, have you decided how you are going to choose? i mean, say you get into Trinity (which i'm sure you will!), and they want an answer, but you haven't heard from any US schools yet...what would you do? I've been thinking about this, wondering if the Irish schools will offer sooner than the UK ones, and pondering what I would do. Most of the UK apps i have in are for 5-yr programs (w/foundation year), which i would prefer over the 6-year Irish ones...then again, studying meds anywhere would be incredible, so i'm not really sure how i'd approach this situation if it arose....
    Listen to me! haven't even gotten interviews yet...first things first, right? :p

    anyway, i'm off to class!

    Cheers :D
     
  14. goldfish

    goldfish Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2002
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    0
    applied at all the uni that offer med since they have this unified form where u can apply to all at once

    trinity being first choice

    btw
    i'm not a graduate. seems to me a lot of people here are graduates rather than from pre u or pre med
     
  15. Meese

    Meese MS I
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    hi goldfish :p

    so where are you from? i'm not actually a graduate...halfway thru my 3rd year of uni, and you? did you apply anywhere else, other than Ireland? going for the 6-year or the 5-year? what made you decide on Trinity?

    aahh, so may questions...sorry if i've bombarded you, just happy someone else has finally piped up and joined the thread!

    Cheers :D
     
  16. lola

    lola Bovine Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,848
    Likes Received:
    3
    when applying to u.s. med schools it costs $30 for each school plus their secondary fee which can range from $60-$100. it is very expensive!!! applying to 25 schools will cost you at leat $2500. then if you get interviews it costs even more.

    i don't know what will happen if i'm accepted to trinity but have not gotten word whether or not i'm in at u.s. schools. i will most likely choose any u.s. school over trinity simply b/c of the 4 year vs. 5 year thing. there are a few schools i *might* choose trinity over, but i'll cross that bridge when it comes i guess... it really depends on how i feel when i visit schools at interviews. when do you have to notify irish schools if you will accept their offer and how much money do you have to put down to hold your spot?

    meese are you applying only to schools in ireland/uk? why don't you want to finish out your undergraduate degree in canada?

    is the med school at trinity on the main campus? is there only one campus at trinity? i've been there a couple of times and know it's really beautiful and that it's a great school, but that's really all i know at this point.
     
  17. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Messages:
    5,559
    Likes Received:
    12
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    For those of you doing the 5 or 6 year program...if you have had sufficient coursework, it may be possible for you to get an exemption from certain classes.

    Most of us who were direct entrants (Americans and Canadians) got exemptions from biochemistry because a lot of us had taken the class before, plus had done research work in labs where biochemical techniques were used. And the fact that they overbooked our class helped. Exemption is cool because for this year, we won't have to take the exams. However, we're all still going to class to keep up, and we'll have to do some lab clinical assessments.

    On the flip side, I know first year meds who'd done the premed physics/chemistry/bio thing who did not get exemptions from those classes, but those are the kids who didn't earn degrees in science. So it's kind of hard to tell who will get exempt and who won't.

    Just keep that in mind, ask about the possibility of gaining exemptions because it might save you some tedium and boredom when you get here (and might not make an extra year seem so bad).
     
  18. goldfish

    goldfish Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2002
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    0
    from malaysia actually
    i applied to a local uni that twins with a lot of foreign (western) Med schools, and also applied to some australian ones.
    got a conditional offer from melbourne but melbourne is a pain in the ass to get in cos they have super duper high requirements. my final has to be uber good to get in.

    trinity cos of rep mostly.

    lola:
    applying here costs money too :) aint capitalism grand?
    the local uni i applied to wants about RM500 "processing fee" for locals and US$500 for foreigners on top of the RM100 just to get the form. so thats a total of about US$150 to US$525. Some australian uni's want a fee too. I believe about A$50 to A$100.
     
  19. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Messages:
    5,559
    Likes Received:
    12
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    By the way, there's TONS of malaysians studying medicine here. I would say they constitute at least half, if not more, of the international students in my class. There's a lot in RCSI as well. It seems the Irish schools have connections with the Malaysian governments/schools. It's made for interesting conversation!
     
  20. Meese

    Meese MS I
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    good to hear from you goldfish :)

    i'm not sure how education works in malaysia; are you pre-uni right now then, or have you already done some undergrad work? anyway, wish you best of luck with the apps!

    as per your last Q lola, i'm not too concerned about leaving without finishing my degree, as i've basically reached a point where i really want a change. still like my classes and everything, but am eager to start this career path i've been dreaming about for so long. if i get into any of the places i've applied, i can leave here with a general BA (for my 3 yrs of work), so it wouldn't be a total loss, credit-wise. I'm actually in an honours BSc program, but they refuse to give a general BSc for psyc if you leave after three years...will switch me to BA, and all that first-year science work would have been for nothing! meh. small sacrifice i guess.
    which brings me to a question for leorl --- you said that the students there who were exempted from certain credits were those who had earned science degrees? do the ppl who weren't exempted just have no uni science experience at all, or were their first year intro bio/chem/calc/physics not good enuf to get them the wave thru? just wonder b/c of this stupid BA/BSc thing my school will do if i indeed get into meds, and leave a year early....have still taken the basic courses, just mine won't show as a science degree....

    Cheers :D
     
  21. brontehardyeliot

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, I won't actually be applying till next year, but then I will be sending in apps to Trinity, Dublin, RCSI, Sheffield, Leicester, Newcastle, and Oxford. I wish I could have applied this year, but I felt my application would be stronger if I waited. For those of you who have gone or are going through the whole UCAS process, have you started looking into loans and scholarships? Financing my education over there is my biggest issue. I really want to study there and practice there, too, and I'm so worried that I'm not going to be able to find the money. :( I know AB has financial aid packages, but it seems like you have to really search for funding as international students at UK schools.
     
  22. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Messages:
    5,559
    Likes Received:
    12
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Meese,

    Those of us exempted from biochem are all 2nd-year direct entrants, which means we all graduated with science degrees. Unfortunately, it seems that those who didn't get science degrees (or those who left uni early without graduating with a science degree) were placed into 1st year (the 6 year program). Of those, I don't think any of them got exemptions, even though a lot of them had done pre-reqs for the MCAT (chemistry, ochem, physics, bio).

    With a major in psychology, I don't know how realistic it would be to get exemptions, even if you've taken the MCAT pre-reqs. If you'd been majoring in a science degree, it might have been easier for you to get exemptions, but don't count on it. First year intro-courses are not enough to get waved through. I don't know anyone who applied who didn't get exemptions, but most of us have had substantial labwork using biochem techniques or have had complementary courses like immunology, molecular cell bio - higher level classes.

    Something that worked in our favor was that they overbooked our class. Normally it's pretty hard to get exemptions.

    Sorry, didn't mean to burst anyone's bubble or something, just trying to give a realistic picture and note that it may be a possibility to get exemptions.
     
  23. Tevelin

    Tevelin Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2002
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    I often wonder how non-US students manage to finance their way through foreign med. school. For UK citizens it is extremely difficult to acquire the very large sums required - there are no loan schemes available here that cover large college fees.

    The fees for Irish, US, Australian and Carribean (e.g. St Georges & Ross) colleges are virtually beyond our means especially when you equate it with the income you will eventually receive here as a Doctor which is very modest compared with commercial sector salaries.

    Although I am a Biology graduate, I have since trained as an IT consultant (as salaries seemed relatively high) and have been working for several years to save enough to consider Ireland or elsewhere. I will still have to borrow money to make up the fees / living expenses etc.

    How do students from developing countries manage financially when it is so hard even in the UK?

    The problem is that the time it takes to amass sufficient resources to be able to actually go to medical school wastes usefull time during which you could have been training, lowers your chances of getting a place and more importantly reduces the number of years you will be able to do usefull work as a Doctor.

    In the UK, as a graduate, obtaining a medical education is a daunting task - there are relatively few colleges willing to entertain your application and interviews are a rarity and there is a very strong (and openly stated) bias against age. I would be interested to hear how others have overcome the financial hurdles especially students from the UK.:)
     
  24. mick2003

    mick2003 Member
    Physician 15+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I admittedly have not read most of this thread, but I just wanted people to be aware that exemptions from courses, while tempting in the present, may pose problems in the future. As someone currently going throught the Match process, I have noticed that exemptions must be explained on most applications for exams (eg Step 1/2). In addition, at least at UCD, you will not be eligible for honours. Furthermore, upon returning to the states, I would worry if program directors (and licencing boards) would wonder how someone could graduate from medical school without having taken courses such as anatomy or biochem at the medical school level (US grads retake them, afterall). This is just my speculation, however, take it as you want. I, personally, didn't want to play with fire.
     
  25. Meese

    Meese MS I
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    good comments all around about exemptions....

    i'm personally trying not to get too concerned with this option since i haven't had more than intro experience in the basic sciences (lots of neuroscience since then, but that doesn't really count). taking the 6-year course seems a better option to me as i would want to build myself as solid a foundation as possible for practicing medicine. but i guess it is tempting to explore getting the courseload reduced, since there's already so much work to do, but not if it will compromise one's understanding of the fundamental concepts! a good point, leorl, that most of you were direct entrants and had lots of experience w/biochem etc., which i definitely haven't had. hehe, don't worry, wasn't much of a bubble to burst for me anyway! :p just an interesting option i hadn't even thought about before....but maybe other ppl reading this thread will be in a position to take advantage of exemption.

    bronte, i'm having the same concerns as you about financing...got the info from AB, but i'm looking into personal loans from some Cdn banks that are designed for professional students. problem is, most have Canadian med students in mind, and don't necessarily offer the kind of $ i'd need for overseas (which is a heck of a lot more!). i'm checking into what can be extended, if i could take loans at a few diff banks, etc. and also trying to find out if there are any government loans/scholarships that don't stipulate that study must be here at home. to be honest, this whole investigation totally sucks! i get nauseous thinking about how far in the hole i will be if i indeed get into UK or Irish schools.....but must carry on i guess! p.s. sad to hear that you're waiting til next year, but hopefully your plan will have its intended effect, and your app will be lots stronger :)

    ok, i have rambled long enough...time to go write a midterm....

    Cheers :D
     
  26. JMD

    JMD Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2002
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Unfortunately, it seems that those who didn't get science degrees (or those who left uni early without graduating with a science degree) were placed into 1st year (the 6 year program"

    Leorl,
    I found your post kind of alarming. I was a psych major with just the premed requirements. AB told me that would be fine for the 5 yr. program...Is this not the case? :confused: That would really suck if could only get into 6 yr. It's not really a time issue, but another year of loans and $ could really sway my decision as to whether to go to Ireland or stay U.S. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
    JMD
     
  27. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Messages:
    5,559
    Likes Received:
    12
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I was just discussing this with a couple friends today. One of them, a criminology major from University of Florida did not get placed into 2nd year. However, she was exempted from physics and chemistry, due to her MCAT preparations and pre-reqs. Another gal from Univ. of Saskatchewan (spelling?) was a psychology major who entered Trinity med before completing her degree. She didn't become exempt from anything. JMD, I'd have a good lengthy chat with both AB and the admissions office or respective departments and trinity, to ensure where you'd get placed if you were offered a place. Although AB seems to think you'd get in as a direct-entrant, I'd speak with someone from wherever you apply to make sure of it.

    The warning mick2003 is a sound one. I just found out today that if I take the exemption, I will not be eligible for distinctions or prizes that are awarded during 3rd year, although I still could get a first for the year. Not saying that I would anyway, but I don't really like my options being limited - we wouldn't be eligible for certain honors. Also, I have also wondered how an exemption would look when applying for residency. Therefore, I'm not going to take the exemption - mick's right...it'd be like playing with fire. I just might as well stop being a lazyass and put in the study time (although I don't have much of it!)

    Tevelin - some of the international students from less developed countries have an arrangement with the government to pay for studies. Sometimes, the government pays full fees (for outstanding students), or has some kind of exchange program set up with irish schools. It's hard to say.
     
  28. roo

    roo Voice From The Wilderness
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2000
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    The students from developing countries studying in Ireland almost exclusively are able to attend because their home government has paid for their full tuition.

    For example, there are four Botswana students at UCD. Botswana is one of the more fiscally responsible countries in Africa, but does need a hand up in some of the sectors like health care.

    There is not a medical school in Botswana at the moment. So the Botswana government gives a full scholarship for the brightest students in the country, to train at places where they can learn well. 4 students go to UCD. The deal is that they return and bring back their knowledge to improve medicine in Botswana to the same level that they learned in Ireland. The Botswana guys say that it would be more effective to eventually have their own medical school, as they can train many more at home vs. a few in Ireland becasue of the extra $ in tuition/living costs. This should be able to be done eventually once they have a critical mass of highly trained docs in Botswana.

    Ditto goes for Malayasia: full government scholarships for almost everyone. There is probably a better solution, which Botswana perhaps can move to as a stepping stone: To give Malaysia a hand up, UCD and RCSI helped build them a medical school in Malaysia (Penang). Then they can train mostly at home for less cost to the Malaysia government. Currently the Malaysians spend either the preclinical years in Ireland and clinical in Malaysia, or vice versa. Same deal there: Malaysia government pays for training in Ireland, with return contract that they will take what they learned to improve medicine in Malaysia.

    I support the Irish government and how they have tried to give a hand up to some other countries in the ways that they are able. Ireland doesn't have a large armed forces (there is a small defence force), though it did send alot of troops to help defend East Timor during its oppression. For a small island country though, they can share their knowledge--that is something that they can do. There was a time when Ireland was not rich economically (hence the mass emigration up to the 1970s), they were given a hand up by the EU through donations to build infrastructure, and now their economy is the strongest in the EU by a country mile. I think it is good that they offer that same hands up to less able countries now that they are the golden land of opportunity themselves.
     
  29. roo

    roo Voice From The Wilderness
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2000
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    For exemptions:

    UCD used to refund the tuition for an exempted course (sounds fair, if not take a course, why have to pay?) Of course, other students paying full tuition bitched to the medical office about this, so they had to stop doing that in about 2000-01 or so.

    There has been zero comments from a Program Director on application from any of the guys applying to US/Canada, about an exempted course. Almost everyone has more interviews than they can go to. The transcript doesn't have a Microbiology with an exempted beside it, or a line through it, or a withdrawl next to it, it just isn't on the transcript at all. Every school has different course names, I doubt if PDs even know that it was gone, or if they even care, since they are preclinical anyways, and your clinical grades are what show whether you know your stuff or not.

    There is no honours awarded, but I think that is fair to others taking a full courseload. Again though, preclinical honours don't carry as much weight as clinical. And the big picture at that preclinical stage is to know your preclinical info yourself well enough to crush the licensing exams, as that is the only fair way to compare students knowledge of the topics.

    Assess exemptions for yourself about whether you want to accept them. If you have finished an entire degree/masters/PhD on a preclinical subject, the saved time might be better spent elsewhere in your personal studies, as there is alot of information to be covered in a short number of years.
     
  30. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Messages:
    5,559
    Likes Received:
    12
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I have emailed the ECFMG asking about it. Our thinking is that...we're only exempt from 2nd year biochemistry, which is more introductory. We're not exempt from 3rd year biochemistry, which is clinical biochemistry. Therefore, we'll still get a grade for biochemistry, and we don't think the USMLE committee or residency programs will really care that we didn't take the intro biochem stuff. Same with physiology...people who've done physiology masters degrees get exempt out of this year, but not next year. So for the most part, i think it would be fairly safe. However, I'm checking it out just to be sure.

    We aren't allowed to get distinctions or honors, but honestly...I couldn't give two craps about whether I'm the best student in biochem (not that I would be by a long shot anyway). Here, they give some medal out to whoever's the best biochem student - i don't think it's very important. Will let y'all know for sure when I find out. People who have exempted before haven't had many problems when applying back to the US, so our health sciences office tells us.
     
  31. lola

    lola Bovine Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,848
    Likes Received:
    3
    some schools (i.e. mayo) don't even teach biochem.
     
  32. roo

    roo Voice From The Wilderness
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2000
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    It is worthwhile to shoot for honours and go after a few medals if possible. In Ireland these will help you out for a job, and on the US application for residency, there isn't many sections to fill in, but one of them is a space for all your medical student awards. There is no "AOA" (Alpha Omega Alpha) in Dublin, so honor awards are a way to demonstrate the equivalent academic success.

    Best wishes,
    roo
     
  33. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Messages:
    5,559
    Likes Received:
    12
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Thanks roo. What I meant to say is that I couldn't give a crap over honors/distinctions in biochemistry. That's all we're prevented from getting, but we still can get firsts and sit the schols exams. If anything, I would want distinctions / honors/ prizes in subjects like anatomy and physiology. While Biochem is important, I think anat and phys are even more so. I'd also be more concentrated on receiving prizes for clinical subjects, not really pre-clinical (not to say i'd get any, i'm just saying I couldn't care less about biochemistry :) ).
     
  34. goldfish

    goldfish Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2002
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    0
    just finished my finals today..... now comes the waiting part. It's all up to the roll of the dice now. me is scared and worried.

    for the guy asking about edu in malaysia
    here's how it works

    primary (7yrs old to 12 yrs old)

    secondary / high school (13 to 17/18 depends on wheter u went to a chinese/tamil school)

    pre - u (very subjective. STPM 2 year government pre u VERY (read: ridiculously) tough but widely recognized and will get u into local unis. Various other pre u programes available from private colleges usually 1 to 1.5 yrs such as A levels and SAM. There are other routes to get past pre-u cant list them all here) I just finished my pre-u (SAM) so i have no undergrad experience.

    university...Bsc/BA/MBBS/whatever


    To those who are at ireland now:
    How are things there (wheather, food, life in general :) ) ? Is there any kind of "polarisation" of students (ie Irish sticking to Irish, Msian sticking to Msian)?
     
  35. SM-UCLA tech

    SM-UCLA tech CCOM MS4 soon OB/Gyn PGY1
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    579
    Likes Received:
    0
    I applied to ucd, tcd, and rcsi
     
  36. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Messages:
    5,559
    Likes Received:
    12
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    goldfish,

    There is a bit of polarization, but not because the groups just really want to "stick to their own kind." I'll tell you what it's like in my class at Trinity. At first, when no one knew each other, Americans/Canadians stuck with Americans/Canadians, Irish stuck to Irish, Malaysians stuck to Malaysians. It's still sort of like that now just because we built friendships in those groups, but now people are starting to branch out more. You have to work with each other in Anatomy groups for dissections and stuff, and each Anatomy group has a mix of people. I'm friendly with a lot of the Irish in my class, and I'm Asian-American. My situation is a little different because I came here on my junior year abroad and so still have a huge number of Irish friends still here.

    The Malaysians do stick around one another, but they work very well with the North Americans/Canadians as well. Actually, it's a little bit embarrassing because most of them know my name, but I don't know any of theirs (I should find out). A lot of it is social...most of the Malaysians are Muslims (they wear the turgon (is that right?) over their heads), so they don't socialize with us the way we're used to since they're not allowed to drink, or really really party. Of course, there are some Muslims in our class who don't strictly practice, but the Malaysians tend to be more devout. It's made for interesting conversation (I remember we were quite taken aback when the Malaysian girls would shake my hand but wouldn't shake the hands of my guy friends because it's not allowed in their religion), but everyone's just getting to know more about the cultures better and adapting quite well. We often quiz the Malaysians about their practices because we're quite unaccustomed to that way of living, it's quite interesting. But quite a few of us Americans are friends with them, as well as some of the Irish.

    So in short, yes...there are polarities. But as a holistic class, we're starting to bond quite well and race / age / religion isn't really a barrier in any way.
     
  37. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Messages:
    5,559
    Likes Received:
    12
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Oh...

    Food isn't really any different from what you eat in the US (if you are in the US). If you're from Asian countries, there's asian food markets around and you can always get rice and stuff at the local store. The food is just..what you can cook :).

    Weather. Okay, it kind of sucks. On a few rare days, it's quite sunny and gorgeous. While I've been here, it's been rainy most the time. And I know it's known for being rainy, but I can't quite remember it being so much so . I think it's got something to do with the fact that they had a brilliant summer and actually was in danger of being in a drought, and so now the weather is making up for it :). The thing is, it can get quite windy as well, but that's not really different from Cleveland (where I did undergrad). I don't mind the rain, and grey skies don't really affect me. What often happens is that it's dry/slightly sunny in the morning, then rainy in the afternoon...the weather changes very quickly.

    An odd phenomenon is that quite frequently, it will get colder throughout the day, even if the sun's out. It's kind of weird. Right now, it gets dark around 5, 5:30 pm. A little early. But then in the spring/summer, it won't get dark until 11 pm! :) .

    It's pretty chilly now, but I still don't need a winter coat or thick gloves. I've heard in some parts of the states, it's already started snowing. The thing is, the cold here is not the same as the cold in the US. This kind of cold is the kind of chill that just soaks through you and settles deep in your bones. IN the US, the cold tends to be more on the surface. I'm not sure if I explained that right.

    Life for me here is wonderful :). It's everything I wanted it to be. ONe of my big reasons for coming back to ireland besides liking their educational system, is because I wanted to have a life, not stuck constantly worried about studies and things. And I really am. I get to be back with my old friends whom I love to death, plus make new friendships which are turning out to be so much fun. I'm rowing, something I really didn't want to give up during med school, and playing rugby - something I'd always wanted to try. I'm exploring everything I want to and turning out to be quite successful at it.

    Also, here ...the medical field as a whole (students, faculty, etc) are soooo much more in the community, more intune to needs of those less fortunate than ourselves, so giving! I find that incredible, and I really love that humanistic aspect of what we're doing. The US has sooo much money and luxuries, but here's a small country like Ireland that is on average not as prosperous as the US, and they're bending over backwards to help third world nations, fight for good causes, etc. They're not apathetic. I find that very refreshing. In short, I love being here.
     
  38. goldfish

    goldfish Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2002
    Messages:
    234
    Likes Received:
    0
    it's tudung (pronounced kinda like two dong :) )

    i'm surprised they wouldn't shake. i'd say most muslims in malaysia probably wouldn't have those reservations.

    are there many indian/chinese malaysians?

    what's the student:cadaver ratio in the anatomy class?

    i might apply to go to UCD or RCSI in a twinning programme with a local medical college but gotta check if i'm too late or not.
    i'm pretty sure i'll qualify for their academic requirements just hope i'm not too late to apply.
     
  39. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Messages:
    5,559
    Likes Received:
    12
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Most of the malaysians are Chinese malaysians, and there are a few Indian malaysians. And then some are just malaysians (and not necessarily muslim malaysians).

    The ratio is 12 people to 1 cadaver. Which seemed like quite a lot at first, but it's worked out great. At least for the muscle stuff, once you've cut once or twice, it's all the same really. So those of us who don't dissect just then get to study for our card-signings (kinda like mini-quizzes or vivas at the end of the practical). And we just rotate people who dissect. Usually at least two people dissect per time, but if we're doing something where we can work on both sides of the body at the same time without hindering each other, then 4 people will work at a time. It's worked out well.
     
  40. lola

    lola Bovine Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,848
    Likes Received:
    3
    are the exams all at the end of the year or do you have them throughout? if they're at the end, how many do you have?
     
  41. roo

    roo Voice From The Wilderness
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2000
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Of students of any country I have seen, I would have to say I am throughly impressed the most with the 100% consistent niceness of the Malaysian students I have met.

    In all the years, I can't think of a single student from Malaysia every saying anything bad about anyone. Always, kind, polite, helpful. Perfect ambassadors were selected by their government.
     
  42. JMD

    JMD Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2002
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can anyone studying at UCD or UCC tell me how things are going? There is alot of Trinity info on here (which is also extrememly helpful), but I am curious about these other schools as well. Thanks.
     
  43. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Messages:
    5,559
    Likes Received:
    12
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Pretty much, we don't have year-round exams (one of the reasons I came here. The system is a lot different). It actually makes med school a LOT less stressful. The exams come at two main times: Christmas exams (around the 2nd week of December), and then in May. The ones around Christmas are only worth 15-20%, with the majority of weight given to the May exam.

    During the term, there's small little assessments for clinical stuff we do (making a blood smear, drawing blood, etc.) that are worth like 1.5% of our grade or they're just pass/fail.

    But it's really cool not having an exam to cram for every week or 2 weeks.



    I don't think the others visit SDN that much anymore. I only visit because I have to moderate :). Sorry there's so much Trin info. on here, but honestly... the others have similar systems, so in general you can transfer schedules and general info. to the other schools.
     
  44. lola

    lola Bovine Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,848
    Likes Received:
    3
    thanks for the info, leorl. i really liked having exams only once/year when i studied abroad in england. i thought it was going to be way more stressful, but it ended up being much less so. i only stressed once a year instead of like every other week!
     
  45. JMD

    JMD Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2002
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Leorl. And also, I forget if I ever thanked you for e-mailing me your personal statement. It is quite good (you use some pretty big words and sound quite sophisticated...I like "amalgamation";)). Anyways, I am sorry for not showing my gratitude a bit sooner, I appreciate all of the help you have offered.

    Also, I am going to start planning a trip over there so that I can check out the scene. Probably not until it starts getting a bit nicer out, maybe March, but it would be great to get in touch with some of the SDNers so that I can get a firsthand view of med school life over there.
     
  46. Kaptain Krunch

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2002
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'm studying in UCC. Basically UCC is just as good as any other medical school. Trinity gets more applicants because it's the most famous Irish college. People should also consider UCG (Galway) as apparently its got the best student social scene.
     
  47. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2001
    Messages:
    5,559
    Likes Received:
    12
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I don't think UCG (NUIG) is open to graduate entry students, at least not through Atlantic Bridge. But UCG would be as good as anywhere else. As said before, pretty much all the schools have the same standards and are run similarly. Trinity and RCSI probably are the most famous (Trinity even more so because of it's tourist-trap nature and its famous authors). Trinity is also the premier research university in medicine and health sciences in Ireland. UCD has more modern facilities and is connected with supposedly the best teaching hospital in Dublin. I don't know anything about UCC or NUIG, but the people I know at UCC seem very happy there. I'll try to get more UCC people to post.

    Lola: Yeah, but that last month is pure HELL! more hell than could ever be imaginable :). During my year abroad, I had 8 exams, and would have had 11 if I hadn't managed to get out of three of them! God, did that suck! :) This time I won't wait until the last month to start studying !

    JMD: no problem. Unfortunately, that is actually how I write all my essays, so I end up sounding like a big geek. I don't know how or why that developed, but the high school i went to was big on formal English for professional or research-oriented essays. Re: coming in March - that may not be the best idea. Most schools have nearly the whole month of March off for Easter Holiday (i.e. spring break). So then, there won't be any classes for you to visit or teachers around for you to talk to. And a lot of people go on vacations during that time.
     
  48. flusky

    flusky Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2002
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey there,

    I'm a TCD student now in my 3rd year and loving it! The school is great, the people are even better and the pace of the course is very accomodating in contrast to US and Canadian schools. Dont get me wrong...its hard but your not just a number here.....they actually give a **** about you.

    Comming from canada I would say you were best off at TCD as far as the Irish schools go. Its got the largest international population and there is a big support group to help us get residencies in the US or Canada if you want it.

    Ireland is rediculously expensive but all in all the experience is well worth any amount of money.

    Hope you get in! If you want any info on TCD or any contacts here let me know.....
    David:cool:
     
  49. Meese

    Meese MS I
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    0
    glad to hear from you flusky :)

    i see you're from ontario, did you do any uni here before you started meds? oh, and a question has just occurred to me; have you been coming home during the summer breaks? if so, do you do med-related work here? this is a detail i haven't really looked into -- i don't know if students are expected to stick around their school and work there somehow....maybe you can tell me (us all)your experience?

    do you mind if i ask --- how have you been financing your studies? i'm getting a little worried that if i get in, i won't be able to scrape enough together with the loans and programs that are available to Cdns....any thoughts? if you don't want to write all that stuff here, feel free to PM me -- any help would be sincerely appreciated!!

    Cheers :D
     

Share This Page