applying as a fake minority

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simbalimba

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I have heard of students who have applied as a minority when they really are not. What steps do medical schools take to insure that people who apply as minorities really are of their respective indicated ethnic background? Also what defines a minority, is there a certain percentage that you have to be of an ethnic background?
 

sejin8642

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Do you just want to know out of curiousity?
 

enviromed21

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Applying as a fake minority sounds quite risky :thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:
 

PugMD

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Who knows man... All I know is they didnt have a box for "Irish-American." Maybe if they did I wouldnt have had to apply twice?
 

Shpamme

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Aside from the fact that its completely unethical and shouldn't be done under any circumstances.. wouldn't schools find out when they meet the applicant in person at the interview?
 

msl2007

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There might have been an applicant at my school to do that....
He marked "African american," certainly didn't look it (but I don't think that is a reasonable way to discredit someone) and was completely insane. He was innappropriate and rude throughout his interview, didn't get in, and then tried to sue the school for not getting in because "we thought that he was lying about his minority status." No...we thought that he was psycho. The whole thing blew over and obviously he didn't get in at my school. I doubt that he got in anywhere. Actually, he acted so bizarre I wonder if he did it just to see if he could still get in with his stats (greta scores/grades). Nope, not with those stats or any minority/majority/roylaty status. :)

I did hear about an undergrad getting into Harvard with fake minority status and he had his degree taken away, since he got in with a fraudulent application.
 

turkleton

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I'm sure it happens... Who cares though. If you're a good applicant you'll get in regardless, and if you're a weak one the fact that your grandmothers great aunt was a Swahili from Alaska isn't really gonna do a whole lot of good. The object of these programs is to recruit and train good physicians from ethnically diverse backgrounds, not just have diversity for the sake of diversity. You need the grades too.
 

TamarMD

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I'm pretty sure that if you put down african-american down as your minority and you show up at an interview with natural blond hair and blue eyes and whiter than white then they'd guess that you're not african-american. Now I don't know what they can do to find out if you are a certain race but if you aren't whatever race you put down on your application then your guilty of dishonesty which is not a quality that med schools look for in their applicants. You would also have to live with your conscience for the rest of your life....though not everyone has one.
 

enviromed21

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I'm pretty sure that if you put down african-american down as your minority and you show up at an interview with natural blond hair and blue eyes and whiter than white then they'd guess that you're not african-american. Now I don't know what they can do to find out if you are a certain race but if you aren't whatever race you put down on your application then your guilty of dishonesty which is not a quality that med schools look for in their applicants. You would also have to live with your conscience for the rest of your life....though not everyone has one.

Couldn't agree more:thumbup::thumbup: :)
 

simbalimba

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Do you just want to know out of curiousity?

Obviously I am asking out of curiosity because I was pretty pissed off when I heard that people had gotten in this way because it makes it harder for the rest of us who are honest in our whole application.
 

premed2007

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I'm sure it happens... Who cares though. If you're a good applicant you'll get in regardless, and if you're a weak one the fact that your grandmothers great aunt was a Swahili from Alaska isn't really gonna do a whole lot of good. The object of these programs is to recruit and train good physicians from ethnically diverse backgrounds, not just have diversity for the sake of diversity. You need the grades too.
This is true you still need the grades you are not going to go in with a 2.8 and say Im a URM and they will say welcome to X medical school.

also, there are applicants of mixed ethnic background. He/she could come into a potential interview with light skin but still be a minority. He/she is just forced to choose between one ethnic group or another which isnt right either but that is another topic for another day.

If you lie about it completely, then I suppose they are good at catching those people and rejecting their applicantions based on dishonesty and fraud. Maybe one or two slip through the cracks as noted by previous posters but I think that they can sense these things.
 

greg1184

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Wouldn't it be considered fraud too?
 
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Grobular

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i am of the hitachi tribe
 

Tired Pigeon

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I know someone in undergrad who was planning to do exactly this. He was a white guy with somewhat olive skin and curly hair. He said he could "definitely pass" and was going to falesly claim 50% black ancestry. He used to joke about how he'd use the schools' political correctness against them. Quote: "They can't prove I'm not! And they're not gonna try -- they'd **** their pants at the thought of a news story saying such-and-such Medical School challenged a minority applicant for 'not looking black enough'!"

The thing is, based on his stats he would have been a very competitive applicant (great MCAT & GPA) even in the absence of URM status, but he believed posing as a URM would put him over the top. Before even applying, he regularly agonized over how he was going to resolve the "Harvard vs. Hopkins" dilemma he was sure awaited him.

I do not know the eventual fate of this individual, but I hope to God he got run over by a bus.
 

msl2007

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tiredPigeon- that sounds a lot like the applicant that I met!

And when he met with our URM affairs person, he kept asking why they wanted to know if he had to overcome adversity, etc, throughout his life, and he accused her of being too race-focused. The URM affairs person! LOL

If he had the Harvard vs. Hopkins dilemma, I feel bad for the students at the place he chose!
 

turkleton

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I'd be careful with some of the implications made in this thread. I understand the point that some might bend the rules of ethnicity to get a step ahead. Do not extrapolate this to mean that minorities in med school are there because they are minorities. I'm not one of these minorities, just to clarify.

Additionally I can bet that most of your applications aren't entirely pristine- exaggeration of an EC, amount of hours spent volunteering etc etc.
 

NonTradMed

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I know a friend in med school who (half jokingly) said it was his URM half that got him into med school. I guess, it stands to reason that if you are half/half or have one of those ambigious looks, putting down that you are a URM (when you're not), that you probably won't get caught. No one is going to accuse you of anything. I just wonder how seriously they'll take your claim if they somehow figured out clues from your past that indicated you are not who you say you are.

It seems like any advantage you may get from being an URM (closer look on your application etc) would be outweighed by the risk of being caught.
 

Tired Pigeon

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Turkleton, I don't think anyone is saying they give out free passes to med school for minority students. In some instances, however, schools may award a slight edge to a URM applicant over a comparably-qualified non-URM applicant. The intent of such policies may be to attempt to compensate for a (presumably) disadvantaged background or to promote a more diverse class composition. Some may disagree (and we could debate in another forum, certainly) with these policies, but the fact remains that they are in place at many med schools. In any event, the jackass in question, about whom I posted earlier, believed that URM status would enhance his ability to get into med school, and that's the only reason he did it.
 

Mutt

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Note: Do a search for the countless students who marked themselves as Hispanic and were tested by of casual Spanish conversation!

Be ready to prove it someway, somehow....
 

enviromed21

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I know someone in undergrad who was planning to do exactly this. He was a white guy with somewhat olive skin and curly hair. He said he could "definitely pass" and was going to falesly claim 50% black ancestry. He used to joke about how he'd use the schools' political correctness against them. Quote: "They can't prove I'm not! And they're not gonna try -- they'd **** their pants at the thought of a news story saying such-and-such Medical School challenged a minority applicant for 'not looking black enough'!"

The thing is, based on his stats he would have been a very competitive applicant (great MCAT & GPA) even in the absence of URM status, but he believed posing as a URM would put him over the top. Before even applying, he regularly agonized over how he was going to resolve the "Harvard vs. Hopkins" dilemma he was sure awaited him.

I do not know the eventual fate of this individual, but I hope to God he got run over by a bus.


LMAO.:laugh::laugh::laugh:
 

crazy_cavalier

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If you are an honest applicant, I believe that qualifies as "under-represented" in today's applicant pool . . .
 
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Amemus

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I heard a story about a girl who claimed she was Mexican. At the interview, they asked her if she spoke Spanish. She said no. They asked her if she participated in the Latino community at all. She said no. Finally they asked her why she claimed to be Mexican. It turns out her father went to med school at the University of Guadalajara so she was born in Mexico... hmm.. what makes it worse is that she actually had decent stats and probably would have gotten in if she hadn't lied.
 

searun

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There might have been an applicant at my school to do that....
He marked "African american," certainly didn't look it (but I don't think that is a reasonable way to discredit someone) and was completely insane. He was innappropriate and rude throughout his interview, didn't get in, and then tried to sue the school for not getting in because "we thought that he was lying about his minority status." No...we thought that he was psycho. The whole thing blew over and obviously he didn't get in at my school. I doubt that he got in anywhere. Actually, he acted so bizarre I wonder if he did it just to see if he could still get in with his stats (greta scores/grades). Nope, not with those stats or any minority/majority/roylaty status. :)

I did hear about an undergrad getting into Harvard with fake minority status and he had his degree taken away, since he got in with a fraudulent application.

No, wait, that is a woman...did he fake a sex change operation too?
 

soeagerun2or

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I heard a story about a girl who claimed she was Mexican. At the interview, they asked her if she spoke Spanish. She said no. They asked her if she participated in the Latino community at all. She said no. Finally they asked her why she claimed to be Mexican. It turns out her father went to med school at the University of Guadalajara so she was born in Mexico... hmm.. what makes it worse is that she actually had decent stats and probably would have gotten in if she hadn't lied.

Ughh.. She's not lying. Say I'm White and was born in South Africa. My family was of Dutch descent and moved there 200 or so years ago. Clearly I'm African and my family has strong ties to Africa. Then I decide to go to college in America and become a citizen. Am I not African American? How about I'm white but orphaned as an infant and adopted by a black family in the ghetto? I grew up on the streets, in a black community, and thus have the inner city cultural diversity. What box do I check there?

The minority status is really asking about color/race and social upbringing and in all reality is a shame that some try to abuse it while others use it as a crutch.
 

CCLCMer

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If you are an honest applicant, I believe that qualifies as "under-represented" in today's applicant pool . . .
:laugh: Cynical, but maybe true based on some of the posts in this thread!
 

melissainsd

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FYI not all Hispanics speak Spanish. My dad was raised in LA during the 50s and the schools told his mom not to speak Spanish to her kids. In one generation they managed to rob many families of their native language (and the culture that comes with it). Now the only Spanish my dad knows are the curse words she used to call him when she was really mad.

Also, I am a very light skinned half-Mexican so I can be confused with Italian, etc. I'm never sure if people think I am lying about my ethnicity. It's annoying.
 
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TexasFool

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I think using URM as a way to push yourself in front of others and get into medical school is just as unethical.
 

Amemus

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Ughh.. She's not lying. Say I'm White and was born in South Africa. My family was of Dutch descent and moved there 200 or so years ago. Clearly I'm African and my family has strong ties to Africa. Then I decide to go to college in America and become a citizen. Am I not African American? How about I'm white but orphaned as an infant and adopted by a black family in the ghetto? I grew up on the streets, in a black community, and thus have the inner city cultural diversity. What box do I check there?

The minority status is really asking about color/race and social upbringing and in all reality is a shame that some try to abuse it while others use it as a crutch.

I'm sorry, I didn't tell the whole story. She was only there for a year or two. She was only there because her father was going to medical school. Neither she, nor any of her family members have any ties to Mexico. I think the adcomms were showing that they did recognize that one's background is not just based on where someone is born or what they look like. If you're going to say you are part of a certain culture, I think you ought to know something about that culture and maybe participate in its traditions once in a while... I mean, I'm Filipino, and I don't speak Tagalog because, fortunately or not, everyone in the Philippines grows up bilingual so my family never bothered to teach me. But I was lucky to have grown up in an area that had a high concentration of Filipinos so I was still able to celebrate my culture.
(I know Filipinos certainly are not underrepresented, I was just giving an example)
 

WCGee

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I know a kid who is half hispanic, half white and he changed his really Irish sounding last name to his mother's maiden name a month before sending in his AMCAS. Boo. :thumbdown:
 

MonkeyNuts!

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I have heard of students who have applied as a minority when they really are not. What steps do medical schools take to insure that people who apply as minorities really are of their respective indicated ethnic background? Also what defines a minority, is there a certain percentage that you have to be of an ethnic background?

well there's the interview... i guess interviewers might ask about ethinicity and what it means to them if applicants make a big deal out of it.

also when these charlatans get to medical school and brag how they got away with it, people like me will pound their skulls into the pavement
 
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Ryo-Ohki

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I think using URM as a way to push yourself in front of others and get into medical school is just as unethical.

Don't hate the player. Hate the game.
 

Jejton

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Note: Do a search for the countless students who marked themselves as Hispanic and were tested by of casual Spanish conversation!

Be ready to prove it someway, somehow....



Not all Hispanics are fluent, or even proficient in Spanish, especially if they are here a few generations already and dont live in a predominately Hispanic area.

Now heres a question - can a white South African or an Arabic Moroccan mark African-American and be told that they are lieing?
 

Jejton

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I heard a story about a girl who claimed she was Mexican. At the interview, they asked her if she spoke Spanish. She said no. They asked her if she participated in the Latino community at all. She said no. Finally they asked her why she claimed to be Mexican. It turns out her father went to med school at the University of Guadalajara so she was born in Mexico... hmm.. what makes it worse is that she actually had decent stats and probably would have gotten in if she hadn't lied.

But se she wasnt lieing. Mexican is not a race - Hispanic is arguably a race. Mexican is a nationality, just like being American. Anyone born in Mexico ( if that automatically grants one citizenship ) is Mexican by nationality. There are many many Mexicans who are not of Hispanic ancestry ( the Native Mexicans ) many of whom do not speak Spanish but rather various native languages ( i.e. Aztec descendant languages ).

That is one of the main problems with the whole political correctness. It has good intentions but the methods dont always have the intended effects or logic behind them.
 

roubs

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I do know Hispanic people who don't speak Spanish. They do exist :p
 

christian15213

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Note: Do a search for the countless students who marked themselves as Hispanic and were tested by of casual Spanish conversation!

Be ready to prove it someway, somehow....

WHAT....? are you talking about... Now here I come. I would be EXTRA SuPER offended if some called into question my puerto rican looking butt by asking me to speak a da espanol. LMAO... JENNIFER LOPEZ doesn't even speak fluent spanish and until recently i.e. before her latest husband... didn't even do conversational spanish that well....

Sorry try again... you don't prove it... you freaking look it. A white CUBAN is white and therefore not a URM... a black CUBAN is black and therefore a URM... and MEXICAN Americans are URM too... but come on people haven't we disscussed this a 1000 times...
 

christian15213

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Hispanic (Spanish Hispano, from Latin Hispānus, adjective from Hispānia, "Iberian Peninsula") is a term denoting a derivation from Spain, its people and culture. It follows the same style of use as Anglo, which indicates a derivation of England and the English. Thus, the Spanish-American War in Spanish is known as Guerra Hispano-Estadounidense, the "Spanish-German Treaty" is Tratado Hispano-Alemán, and "Spanish America" is Hispanoamérica.

As used in the United States, Hispanic is one of several terms of ethnicity employed to categorize any person, of any racial background, of any country and of any religion who has at least one ancestor from the people of Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America, whether or not the person has Spanish ancestry. It is therefore not a racial term, although as used in the United States it often carries racial connotations. The term was first adopted in the United States by the administration of Richard Nixon[1] and has since been used as a broad form of classification in the U.S. census, local and federal employment, mass media, and business market research.
In Spain, Spanish-speaking Latin America and most countries outside the United States, Hispanic/Hispano is not commonly employed as a term for ethnicity; however, this can be implied depending on the context. When used in this manner, in Spanish-speaking Latin America an Hispano is commonly regarded to be any person whose ancestry stems, in whole or in part, from the people of Spain; to the contrast of the non-Hispanic (ie. non-Spanish descended) population. In this sense, when speaking of a nation's Hispanic population, those who are implied are Spaniards, criollos, mestizos, and mulattos, to the exclusion of Amerindians, unmixed descendants of black African slaves or other peoples from later migrations without any Spanish lineage who today reside in any of the Hispanic nations, regardless of whether they now use Spanish as their first and only language. In contrast, a non-Spanish-speaking Mayan Amerindian from Mexico, for example, who lives in the U.S. would be considered Hispanic as the term is officially defined and commonly understood there
North Americans often confuse the words and concepts of "Hispanic" and "mestizo" by assuming that all Latin Americans are brown- or dark-skinned with black hair and brown or black eyes. There are, however, Hispanics from practically every racial background: fair-skinned, blue-eyed, blonds; Afro-Hispanics; Arab-Hispanics; and Asian-Hispanics. North Americans also confuse the word "Hispanic" with "Spanish", by calling Latinos "Spanish", which is obviously incorrect, since "Spanish" properly refers only to people from Spain.
 

Quynh2007

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i don't like to use the word hispanic. i say latinos since latinos are of indigenous, african, and/or european roots from Latin/Central America and the Caribbeans.
 

GoodDoctor

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WHAT....? are you talking about... Now here I come. I would be EXTRA SuPER offended if some called into question my puerto rican looking butt by asking me to speak a da espanol. LMAO... JENNIFER LOPEZ doesn't even speak fluent spanish and until recently i.e. before her latest husband... didn't even do conversational spanish that well....

Sorry try again... you don't prove it... you freaking look it. A white CUBAN is white and therefore not a URM... a black CUBAN is black and therefore a URM... and MEXICAN Americans are URM too... but come on people haven't we disscussed this a 1000 times...

Hispanic (Spanish Hispano, from Latin Hispānus, adjective from Hispānia, "Iberian Peninsula") is a term denoting a derivation from Spain, its people and culture. It follows the same style of use as Anglo, which indicates a derivation of England and the English. Thus, the Spanish-American War in Spanish is known as Guerra Hispano-Estadounidense, the "Spanish-German Treaty" is Tratado Hispano-Alemán, and "Spanish America" is Hispanoamérica.

As used in the United States, Hispanic is one of several terms of ethnicity employed to categorize any person, of any racial background, of any country and of any religion who has at least one ancestor from the people of Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America, whether or not the person has Spanish ancestry. It is therefore not a racial term, although as used in the United States it often carries racial connotations. The term was first adopted in the United States by the administration of Richard Nixon[1] and has since been used as a broad form of classification in the U.S. census, local and federal employment, mass media, and business market research.
Your second post contradicts your first post.

Or are you simply making a correction?
 

riceman04

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Note: Do a search for the countless students who marked themselves as Hispanic and were tested by of casual Spanish conversation!

Be ready to prove it someway, somehow....

Yeah but even that is not the best way to prove someone's Hispanic Heritage. Many Hispanic parents did not teach their children how to speak Spanish b/c of: 1. assimilation worries and 2. b/c many faced pressure from school boards and teachers to not speak a language at home that was not the primary language of this country.

I have many Hispanic friends who have siblings that cannot speak Spanish (hell...I speak it 10x better than them and I have no Latino connections)
 

GoodDoctor

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Note: Do a search for the countless students who marked themselves as Hispanic and were tested by of casual Spanish conversation!

Be ready to prove it someway, somehow....
I think you may have confused your stories.

I've seen posts about students who claim to speak spanish and then get an interviewer who speaks spanish to them. I've never seen posts about people's ethnicity being challenged in this way.

Maybe you made a silly error and confused stories (or you've shown that you think all brown people speak spanish :) ).
 
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I have heard of students who have applied as a minority when they really are not. What steps do medical schools take to insure that people who apply as minorities really are of their respective indicated ethnic background? Also what defines a minority, is there a certain percentage that you have to be of an ethnic background?

Why would you want to pretend to be a minority seeing that it could only hurt, not help, your chances of admission? Medical schools, generally, frown on minorities and prefer white males and, to a lesser extent, white females. The "race designation" section of the AMCAS application is just another weed-out tool for the admission office. Someone dumb enough to list himself as a minority (or God forbid herself) needs to have pretty impressive grades and MCAT scores to even have a chance of breaking through this barrier.

Trust me. Just check the "Caucasian" box. Don't blow your chances after all the work you put into it.
 

crazy_cavalier

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What was his name before? O'Toole?

win.jpg
 

crazy_cavalier

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Why would you want to pretend to be a minority seeing that it could only hurt, not help, your chances of admission? Medical schools, generally, frown on minorities and prefer white males and, to a lesser extent, white females. The "race designation" section of the AMCAS application is just another weed-out tool for the admission office. Someone dumb enough to list himself as a minority (or God forbid herself) needs to have pretty impressive grades and MCAT scores to even have a chance of breaking through this barrier.

Trust me. Just check the "Caucasian" box. Don't blow your chances after all the work you put into it.

It's scary how true this is. I mean, if you have a class of students and the make up is like 112 caucasian, 21 asian, 6 hispanic, 5 african american, and 3 "other" (yeah go figure, there's such a thing as "other"), wouldn't it make more sense to put your money on that big group of 112?? I really don't get these people who lie about their ethnicity or think that it can help them in the admissions process :confused:
 
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FYI not all Hispanics speak Spanish. My dad was raised in LA during the 50s and the schools told his mom not to speak Spanish to her kids. In one generation they managed to rob many families of their native language (and the culture that comes with it). Now the only Spanish my dad knows are the curse words she used to call him when she was really mad.

Also, I am a very light skinned half-Mexican so I can be confused with Italian, etc. I'm never sure if people think I am lying about my ethnicity. It's annoying.

Come on. We're all Americans. Your native language is English. That's like saying that my native language is Greek just because my parents were immigrants. My parents also wanted their children to assimilate and it was a good decision. I don't give a rat's ass about Greece and their culture except as it has effected American political ideals.

Personally, I'm making sure my kids learn Spanish which is actually a useful language.

But Greek? Whatever for? Resist the temptation to define yourself by race. Why balkanize our society?

**** diversity, what we need is a little more conformity.
 

gary5

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There are often posts about people trying to get into med school while breaking the rules: doing drugs, felonies, cheating on exams, lying about this or that. I suppose that a few get away with it, but most are rejected.
 
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