applying as a fake minority

[almostin]

I think the highlight of the night was the Barkley vs. Bavetta race.

seconded - that was funny to me.

Are we throwing the issue at hand away? if so, who watched monk on friday?

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[baylormed]

seconded - that was funny to me.

Are we throwing the issue at hand away? if so, who watched monk on friday?

It was a repeated episode, wasn't it?

 

[almostin]

It was a repeated episode, wasn't it?

yea, the one about the leper. I've been very disappointed this season.
What about psych?

 

[nene1985]

I loved the race last night, now that was funny. All the rest of the All Star stuff kind of went downhill for me after that.

 

[baylormed]

yea, the one about the leper. I've been very disappointed this season.
What about psych?

Yeah, it's been kind of lame, although still better than whatever else is out there.

I watched psych as well, it's pretty fun. At least here they don't pretend they really know what they're doing (all other forensic shows). It's supposed to be funny.

 

[almostin]

what about scrubs?

 

[TleilaxuMD]

what about scrubs?

That was so last year~

 

[riceman04]

The All Star stuff sucked last night.

It should have been Dwight Howard and Nate Robinson in the Slam Dunk Contest.

The dunks were better in the preliminary rounds as opposed to the final rounds.

I think the highlight of the night was the Barkley vs. Bavetta race.

Hey, I did not get a chance to see that race. Who actually won. It seemed as if most of the players were going with AARP Bavetta.

 

[jsnuka]

Barkley won the race, while running backwards to cross the finish line. It should be on Sports Center again tonight and DEFINITELYon PTI and ATH tomorrow.

 

[emtji]

interviewers aren't immune to making judgments when they initially meet someone. if you mark african american on your application and you're blond and blue eyed, your interviewer is going to do this:

i sat next to a blond hair, blue eyed, pale white young lady at an interview at meharry several years ago who was absolutely certain she was black.

 

[sprinkibrio]

.

 

[Mutt]

WHAT....? are you talking about... Now here I come. I would be EXTRA SuPER offended if some called into question my puerto rican looking butt by asking me to speak a da espanol. LMAO... JENNIFER LOPEZ doesn't even speak fluent spanish and until recently i.e. before her latest husband... didn't even do conversational spanish that well....

A white CUBAN is white and therefore not a URM... a black CUBAN is black and therefore a URM...

The key component with the Jennifer Lopez argument is that she now speaks spanish really well. After taking a beating from the Latino world for doing Selena and not knowing the language perfectly, she learned it and now gives interviews in which she speaks perfect spanish.

A white cuban is just as cuban as a brown cuban! What do you think the point of URM status is? It is there so that Med Schools can enrich their class with people who bring different cultures to the table. Not so that some kid who has only speaks english, knows little or has lived little of their parents culture can claim to get special status. For instance, do you think the Chinese Cubans (who were brought it to work the sugarfields alongside African slaves in the mid-1800's) are less Cuban than some kid in New York who has a Cuban dad? These people are more Cuban or Puerto Rican (as many of the Chinese had to move to PR post-Cuban Revolution in 1960) than the non-Spanish speaking New Yoricans waiving around their flags.

You should be "EXTRA SuPER offended" - but only at yourself - if you were in a room with a Chinese Puerto-Rican who could run circles around you in any part of Puerto-Rican culture, history or language. Especially, if they don't get any sort of special treatment because of the Asian component of their bloodline.

 

[baylormed]

The key component with the Jennifer Lopez argument is that she now speaks spanish really well. After taking a beating from the Latino world for doing Selena and not knowing the language perfectly, she learned it and now gives interviews in which she speaks perfect spanish.

A white cuban is just as cuban as a brown cuban! What do you think the point of URM status is? It is there so that Med Schools can enrich their class with people who bring different cultures to the table. Not so that some kid who has only speaks english, knows little or has lived little of their parents culture can claim to get special status. For instance, do you think the Chinese Cubans (who were brought it to work the sugarfields alongside African slaves in the mid-1800's) are less Cuban than some kid in New York who has a Cuban dad? These people are more Cuban or Puerto Rican (as many of the Chinese had to move to PR post-Cuban Revolution in 1960) than the non-Spanish speaking New Yoricans waiving around their flags.

You should be "EXTRA SuPER offended" - but only at yourself - if you were in a room with a Chinese Puerto-Rican who could run circles around you in any part of Puerto-Rican culture, history or language. Especially, if they don't get any sort of special treatment because of the Asian component of their bloodline.

I very much agree with the bolded part.

 

[gujuDoc]

Ughh.. She's not lying. Say I'm White and was born in South Africa. My family was of Dutch descent and moved there 200 or so years ago. Clearly I'm African and my family has strong ties to Africa. Then I decide to go to college in America and become a citizen. Am I not African American? How about I'm white but orphaned as an infant and adopted by a black family in the ghetto? I grew up on the streets, in a black community, and thus have the inner city cultural diversity. What box do I check there?

The minority status is really asking about color/race and social upbringing and in all reality is a shame that some try to abuse it while others use it as a crutch.

Yeah you make an excellent post. Under the reign of the British Empire in India, several Asian Indians were taken to islands, south american countries, and South African companies. I know one Indian guy who was South African and almost claimed himself as an African American but in the end he didn't.

By a technical stand point they could argue that he is an African American. If they don't want an African American but a black person and truly black person whether mixed or completely of black ancestry they should stop trying to call it African American and just call them black. Seriously!!!

As per the idea of blondes not living in latino countries or people who look Asian Indian not being from latino countries. That's another absurdity. I know that my old highschool spanish teacher always used to tell us that for every typical latino looking person in Columbia there were equally as many blonde hair and blue eyed kind of people there as well. Additionally, I have a friend who was of Sri Lankan ancestry that was from Columbia as well.

That said, if this person did not speak Spanish, have any affiliate with the spanish/mexican/latin american community, etc. that goes to show that perhaps she was just using it for a leg up.

 

[gujuDoc]

The key component with the Jennifer Lopez argument is that she now speaks spanish really well. After taking a beating from the Latino world for doing Selena and not knowing the language perfectly, she learned it and now gives interviews in which she speaks perfect spanish.

A white cuban is just as cuban as a brown cuban! What do you think the point of URM status is? It is there so that Med Schools can enrich their class with people who bring different cultures to the table. Not so that some kid who has only speaks english, knows little or has lived little of their parents culture can claim to get special status. For instance, do you think the Chinese Cubans (who were brought it to work the sugarfields alongside African slaves in the mid-1800's) are less Cuban than some kid in New York who has a Cuban dad? These people are more Cuban or Puerto Rican (as many of the Chinese had to move to PR post-Cuban Revolution in 1960) than the non-Spanish speaking New Yoricans waiving around their flags.

You should be "EXTRA SuPER offended" - but only at yourself - if you were in a room with a Chinese Puerto-Rican who could run circles around you in any part of Puerto-Rican culture, history or language. Especially, if they don't get any sort of special treatment because of the Asian component of their bloodline.

This is a good post. Christian your post is asinine and just plain dumb.

Sadly, though, you have a point Christian. Cubans are not considered minorities except those that are black.

The only other minorities according to the AAMC are as follows:

Mexicans of any color
Puerto Ricans of any color
Native Americans of any color

All other people for all intents and purposes are considered ORM which is ******ed in my opinion.

 

[gujuDoc]

interviewers aren't immune to making judgments when they initially meet someone. if you mark african american on your application and you're blond and blue eyed, your interviewer is going to do this:

i sat next to a blond hair, blue eyed, pale white young lady at an interview at meharry several years ago who was absolutely certain she was black.

Are you sure she had checked the African American box???

Occasionally, even the HBCs will interview non HBC students. Last cycle there was a current DO student who interviewed at Meharry though he was waitlisted there. He was a white male. The cycle before that I knew an Indian guy who interviewed there but ended up getting waitlisted. That same indian guy is now a 2nd year at our state school which has a better rep anyhow but he was interviewed at Meharry even though he was by no means an African American or minority of other sorts.

 

[jane123]

So question..

If I'm a white Cuban but my mother is black, does that qualify me as a black Cuban?

 

[lex]

I have heard of students who have applied as a minority when they really are not. What steps do medical schools take to insure that people who apply as minorities really are of their respective indicated ethnic background? Also what defines a minority, is there a certain percentage that you have to be of an ethnic background?

I know an African American with 3.3 GPA and 27 MCAT got into UCSF (I think, with scholarship, too). I mean, really, with those numbers, she did not deserve to get into such a top school, did she? Sure, she has research and work to support her family etc., but so are some other people who have much higher stats. Fair? Absolutely not! But she got in, dammit.

Remember, All is fair in love and war. If you think you can pull this off, go ahead. But do not get caught. What matters is you get in, how you do it, people don't care anymore especially once you have your MD... unless, of course, you become a politician.

 

[etf]

I know an African American with 3.3 GPA and 27 MCAT got into UCSF (I think, with scholarship, too). I mean, really, with those numbers, she did not deserve to get into such a top school, did she? Sure, she has research and work to support her family etc., but so are some other people who have much higher stats. Fair? Absolutely not! But she got in, dammit.

Remember, All is fair in love and war. If you think you can pull this off, go ahead. But do not get caught. What matters is you get in, how you do it, people don't care anymore especially once you have your MD... unless, of course, you become a politician.

the fact that she was chosen over people with much higher stats shows that she had something else to offer that those other people didn't. it's that simple.

 

[Pantelich]

The thing is that we have affirmative action at entry to undergrad institutions that does serve as the leveling ground for all undergrads. To make any decisions based on race past that point is wrong. The major flaw with the entire "URM" classification (at any academic level) is that it really is only serving the visible(racial)-minority not the ethnic-minority. Your being a Cuban-American is what truly matters and is what you should aim to sell, and not your racial status.

 

[ashestoashes52]

Note: Do a search for the countless students who marked themselves as Hispanic and were tested by of casual Spanish conversation!

Be ready to prove it someway, somehow....

I have a friend applying to medical school whose father is from Mexico, but her mother is from the U.S. She doesn't speak Spanish, although I'm not sure why not. She wouldn't pass this test, which is kind of ironic.

 

[surfstarj]

So why would a middle or upper class African American qualify for URM over a white person who grew up in a trailer park ? An extreme example maybe but valid. There are for instance many many middle-class Hispanic/Latino/mestizo, etc. families whose children never lacked for anything. Should they qualify?

That is the problem with affirmative action. It doesn't take into account a person's background just the color of his skin. What it should look at is the person's socio-economic background - i.e. parents education, jobs, residence, etc.

No kidding. And there should be certifiable numerical indicators (income adjusted for cost of living, parental information, etc) for what qualifies for this consideration. But that would be complicated and skin color is more simple, so...

 

[TheRealMD]

So why would a middle or upper class African American qualify for URM over a white person who grew up in a trailer park ? An extreme example maybe but valid. There are for instance many many middle-class Hispanic/latino/mestizo, etc. families whose children never lacked for anything. Should they qualify?

That is the problem with affirmative action. It doesnt take into account a person's background just the color of his skin. What it should look at is the perosn's socio-economic background - i.e. parents education, jobs, residence, etc.

That's because affirmative action isn't supposed to take care of those issues. At least on the AMCAS, the "white person who grew up in a trailer park" can mark themselves as disadvantaged and med schools can take that into consideration.

Though you should tread carefully. There aren't that many "middle or upper class African-Americans in the first place". And while it may appear they have a "leg-up", taking a look at who gets in overall, it's still around 30-40%. Whether they pick X or Y applicant and not others is hard for us outsiders to understand.

 

[astrocreep96]

the fact that she was chosen over people with much higher stats shows that she had something else to offer that those other people didn't. it's that simple.

I really don't think it's that simple. Spend a few minutes skimming over SDN or mdapps and you will find that urm's are admitted to medical school, on average, with lower stats.

I can accept, for an individual circumstance, that a given urm student will be admitted to medical school with what I would normally perceive as sub-par stats because of "special circumstances."

That does not explain the statistics on AMCAS' website showing the average accepted MCAT/GPA mean for a variety of applicants (including URM). URM applicants, statistically, are admitted to medical school with a significantly lower MCAT/GPA mean, despite having a ratio of applicants per matriculants similar to that of other students.

You're statment may apply to an individual, but it does not explain all of the URM students. And if that's the explanation you're going to provide, I'll call that one and say it's a pretty ignorant, narrow-minded explanation that assumes all URMs have amazing backgrounds, whereas all non-URMs clearly do not and have to make up for it other ways.

To be honest, I can see the pro's and con's of AA, and I can appreciate arguments for and against it. But don't patronize those on this board and chalk it up to some special little thing that she/he had or did. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't, but neither of us know. We do know the statistics, however, and they don't favor your position.

And before someone calls me out for being intolerant or racist, let me state that I am overall neutral on the AA issue. The links and statistics posted by DoctorJay are compelling, and I would say that with blacks only making up 3.3% of the physician population, that is reason enough to justify AA.

 

[Maxx4]

I'm pretty sure that if you put down african-american down as your minority and you show up at an interview with natural blond hair and blue eyes and whiter than white then they'd guess that you're not african-american.

Tell that to these kids:

http://i2.tinypic.com/xlikud.jpg

http://i28.tinypic.com/2myup74.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/2z57hh4.jpg

As for the topic at hand I'd assume that sooner or later someone is going to find out especially if these idiots feel the need to broadcast that type of deception.

 

[scowdeva]

I'm genuinely Native, and in the interviews where they've asked me about my background I've gotten ok news from (waitlists, but that's all that was available when I interviewed at both schools). The two schools where it wasn't brought up at all, ie never touched on my racial background- straight up rejections, one from my state school and alma mater that claims they don't reject anyone post interview...

I have darker skin, but dark blond hair, and my eyes aren't brown (kind of a grey-green, can't really tell what color they are unless you get in my face). I'm sure it wasn't the sole factor that led to those rejections, but I bet them looking at me and then looking at the check boxes in committee led them to assume I was lying since I don't look like the stereotype. Let's just say that I will be sure to bring up my background if they don't at my last interview...

 

[arsenewenger]

The thing is that we have affirmative action at entry to undergrad institutions that does serve as the leveling ground for all undergrads. To make any decisions based on race past that point is wrong. The major flaw with the entire "URM" classification (at any academic level) is that it really is only serving the visible(racial)-minority not the ethnic-minority. Your being a Cuban-American is what truly matters and is what you should aim to sell, and not your racial status.

This is the most "stupid" assertion so far, that college should be the leveling ground. The big question is and has always been: are you willing to trade life situations/circumstances with any URM?

 

[arsenewenger]

interviewers aren't immune to making judgments when they initially meet someone. if you mark african american on your application and you're blond and blue eyed, your interviewer is going to do this:

i sat next to a blond hair, blue eyed, pale white young lady at an interview at meharry several years ago who was absolutely certain she was black.

Did she get in?

 

[Bartelby]

This is the most "stupid" assertion so far, that college should be the leveling ground. The big question is and has always been: are you willing to trade life situations/circumstances with any URM?

With any URM? If we are setting records for stupid comments, I think you just left the competition in the dust!

Would you trade with Michael Jordan, or Ricky Martin? And would you have traded places with a rich black child who grew up in luxury? Or did your comment mean that unless you are willing to trade your life with any and every minority (including a hobo on the street) that you cannot complain about AA?

I usually refrain from commenting on these threads as they are unproductive and just stir up resentment, but I would really like for you to elaborate on that comment.

 

[arsenewenger]

With any URM? If we are setting records for stupid comments, I think you just left the competition in the dust!

Would you trade with Michael Jordan, or Ricky Martin? And would you have traded places with a rich black child who grew up in luxury? Or did your comment mean that unless you are willing to trade your life with any and every minority (including a hobo on the street) that you cannot complain about AA?

I usually refrain from commenting on these threads as they are unproductive and just stir up resentment, but I would really like for you to elaborate on that comment.

"Any URM" as stated was, as a matter of fact, referring to URM as it pertains to the content of this thread/discourse. And in this context, URM is defined as someone of low socio-economic status, highly disadvantaged and has, over the years, striven, against unimaginable and insurmountable odds, to overcome man-made obstacles intended to keep him from achieving his/her dream; putting it simply and using Michelle Obama's words, a statistical oddity. But expanding it a little bit, I assume/hope that you prefer going to medical school/becoming a doctor to playing in the NBA/becoming the next MJ? If that is not the case, then you are in a wrong thread; perhaps, in a wrong forum.

 

[Quynh2007]

why is this thread still alive?

 

[Pedsonchopeful]

Aside from the fact that its completely unethical and shouldn't be done under any circumstances.. wouldn't schools find out when they meet the applicant in person at the interview?

not if it's not obvious. Say you are 1/8 Native American. I had a friend with this ethnicity but you couldn't tell at all.

 

[Bartelby]

"Any URM" as stated was, as a matter of fact, referring to URM as it pertains to the content of this thread/discourse. And in this context, URM is defined as someone of low socio-economic status, highly disadvantaged and has, over the years, striven, against unimaginable and insurmountable odds, to overcome man-made obstacles intended to keep him from achieving his/her dream; putting it simply and using Michelle Obama's words, a statistical oddity. But expanding it a little bit, I assume/hope that you prefer going to medical school/becoming a doctor to playing in the NBA/becoming the next MJ? If that is not the case, then you are in a wrong thread; perhaps, in a wrong forum.

That makes sense, my mistake.

As for trading with any URM, I don't think I would. For that matter, I don't think I would trade with any non-URM. Trading would mean leaving behind your family, friends, life experiences, and presumably ways of thinking (which are based on your own predispositions and experiences). Pretty much all that would transfer is your sentience. You would, basically, be killing yourself by transferring. Since that is how I envision it, I can't imagine trading places with anyone.

I get, though, that your question is meant to ask "do you really think they have it better than you do?" I don't really know that either. I grew up as a poor white male. Whether life would have been better growing up in another demographic is so circumstantial that I cannot say I had it better than all poor URM people or that I had it worse than all poor URM people. I would bet I had it worse than some and better than others.

Either way, I don't think your original question answers much for me personally about this debate.

 

[EkLiLiaN]

Obviously I am asking out of curiosity because I was pretty pissed off when I heard that people had gotten in this way because it makes it harder for the rest of us who are honest in our whole application.

"A good applicant is a good applicant" and so if the dishonest ppl are getting in, that shouldn't affect whether you get in or not. If you got a good GPA, ECs, mcat and excellent recs, I don't see how you should be rejected by ALL schools in the country.

Also note that you are going to be in school for 4 years and if you lied on your application, it'll come out someway or somehow.

This is just my 2 cents

 

[Despina]

Only a rich white person can write something so stupid with so much conviction

families in the ghettos don't usually adopt....

only crazy liberals do-to break it down in your terms.

I am Caucasian female who grew up in a mile from the border in a poor Hispanic community. I went to the same inner city schools, faced a lot of the same economic hardships, but I would feel really uncomfortable checking the URM box even though by AMCAS rules I could claim it by sheer nature of the fact that I grew up there...but unlike my neighbors I didn't get randomly harassed by the police/ border patrol while taking an evening stroll, driving out past midnight, etc.

 

[flaahless]

"Any URM" as stated was, as a matter of fact, referring to URM as it pertains to the content of this thread/discourse. And in this context, URM is defined as someone of low socio-economic status, highly disadvantaged and has, over the years, striven, against unimaginable and insurmountable odds, to overcome man-made obstacles intended to keep him from achieving his/her dream; putting it simply and using Michelle Obama's words, a statistical oddity. But expanding it a little bit, I assume/hope that you prefer going to medical school/becoming a doctor to playing in the NBA/becoming the next MJ? If that is not the case, then you are in a wrong thread; perhaps, in a wrong forum.

Sonned.

 

[flaahless]

I really don't think it's that simple. Spend a few minutes skimming over SDN or mdapps and you will find that urm's are admitted to medical school, on average, with lower stats.

I can accept, for an individual circumstance, that a given urm student will be admitted to medical school with what I would normally perceive as sub-par stats because of "special circumstances."

That does not explain the statistics on AMCAS' website showing the average accepted MCAT/GPA mean for a variety of applicants (including URM). URM applicants, statistically, are admitted to medical school with a significantly lower MCAT/GPA mean, despite having a ratio of applicants per matriculants similar to that of other students.

You're statment may apply to an individual, but it does not explain all of the URM students. And if that's the explanation you're going to provide, I'll call that one and say it's a pretty ignorant, narrow-minded explanation that assumes all URMs have amazing backgrounds, whereas all non-URMs clearly do not and have to make up for it other ways.

To be honest, I can see the pro's and con's of AA, and I can appreciate arguments for and against it. But don't patronize those on this board and chalk it up to some special little thing that she/he had or did. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't, but neither of us know. We do know the statistics, however, and they don't favor your position.

And before someone calls me out for being intolerant or racist, let me state that I am overall neutral on the AA issue. The links and statistics posted by DoctorJay are compelling, and I would say that with blacks only making up 3.3% of the physician population, that is reason enough to justify AA.

Yo man, nearly 1/3 of URM students enroll at an HBCU, puerto rican school etc., so of course the #s are going to be lower. Look at the average MCAT/GPA for the HBCUs and Puerto Rican schools... 24/3.3 maybe? The URm students at other sschools have stats that are comparable to the national average.

As far as homegirl that got into UCSF. If they admitted a girl with a 3.3 and a 27, i'm pretty sure there was something compelling about her application that allowed her to fill the niche that UCSF was looking to fill. UCSF can easily have an average of 35/3.9, but they dont'. Why? Just read their mission statement. They want a diverse class in every way, academically, ethnically, demographically, interest in a specialty-ically, etc.

 

[mikedc813]

ADCOMs must consider you as an underrepresented minority if you claim to be one on your AMCAS

 

[FigreSkatinGirl]

Only a rich white person can write something so stupid with so much conviction

families in the ghettos don't usually adopt....

only crazy liberals do-to break it down in your terms.

WOW. you are absolutely WRONG and that is pretty sickening.

I am white. I was adopted by an african american woman and I've grown up with her (my wonderful mother) and her sisters (my amazing aunts) and my two non biological siblings my entire life. Where did I grow up? Brooklyn.

You're so ignorant.

 

[CoolSpot7Up]

Not sure if this was mentioned anywhere else in the thread, but I do find it annoying when people from Egypt claim African-American on their apps. Technically, yes, they are from the same continent, but the purpose of the URM question is to identity racial and socioeconimic barriers the applicant may have faced, and to form a diverse class. I heard an admissions dean say that they laugh when someone tries the AA from Egypt thing, since they obviously don't face the same issues as blacks.

 

[45408]

"Any URM" as stated was, as a matter of fact, referring to URM as it pertains to the content of this thread/discourse. And in this context, URM is defined as someone of low socio-economic status, highly disadvantaged and has, over the years, striven, against unimaginable and insurmountable odds, to overcome man-made obstacles intended to keep him from achieving his/her dream

But that's not the AMCAS definition, so why is this relevant? You can apply as a URM even if your parents are millionaires.

And "unimaginable and insurmountable odds"? Let's not be melodramatic here.

 

[Pantelich]

This is the most "stupid" assertion so far, that college should be the leveling ground. The big question is and has always been: are you willing to trade life situations/circumstances with any URM?

I will not bother elaborating further. Give it some thought first. Then, if you do not fully understand my words, feel free to ask.

 

[pride4jc727]

I honestly think that is so wrong. As a Filipino, I do not consider myself as an URM and would not even begin to think of getting in on the basis of race. If I get accepted to medical school, it better be on merit, my record, and the hard work, determination, and other personal traits that makes me the best qualified candidate to go to medical school.

 

[TheSky]

They should get rid of affirmative action completely.

Affirmative action isn't fair; it doesn't work for people who actually need it. Even though I grew up in a poor, crime-infested neighborhood, going to bad schools with large Hispanic and black populations, I was competing against other Asians who went to premium schools with great, or at least better, educational programs in neighborhoods where there weren't robberies or shootings. I also happen to know a black girl whose parents are both physicians, who sent her to wonderful schools, and now she is going to one of the top medical schools.

 

[Despina]

They should get rid of affirmative action completely.

Affirmative action isn't fair; it doesn't work for people who actually need it. Even though I grew up in a poor, crime-infested neighborhood, going to bad schools with large Hispanic and black populations, I was competing against other Asians who went to premium schools with great, or at least better, educational programs in neighborhoods where there weren't robberies or shootings. I also happen to know a black girl whose parents are both physicians, who sent her to wonderful schools, and now she is going to one of the top medical schools.

I feel you...I came from a similar situation...in fact I got the s**t beat out of me in junior high for being the smart white girl...I had to work twice as hard when I got to college to compete with the kids from private high schools.

 

[SurferDocAli]

You are right. I dont feel looks should discredit a person. I pass for white but I am Indian! I think being me is sometimes worse than some of the racism some of my family has gone through because of the color of their skin. The reason is because I belong no where! I have people who are racist towards me because Im "white" and racist towards me because im indian. It makes no sense. LOL, oh yeah, I have been treated badly because ppl have taken me as hispanic, too...and Russian...and.... I'm every woman?

There might have been an applicant at my school to do that....
He marked "African american," certainly didn't look it (but I don't think that is a reasonable way to discredit someone) and was completely insane. He was innappropriate and rude throughout his interview, didn't get in, and then tried to sue the school for not getting in because "we thought that he was lying about his minority status." No...we thought that he was psycho. The whole thing blew over and obviously he didn't get in at my school. I doubt that he got in anywhere. Actually, he acted so bizarre I wonder if he did it just to see if he could still get in with his stats (greta scores/grades). Nope, not with those stats or any minority/majority/roylaty status.

I did hear about an undergrad getting into Harvard with fake minority status and he had his degree taken away, since he got in with a fraudulent application.

 

[SurferDocAli]

They should get rid of affirmative action completely.

Affirmative action isn't fair; it doesn't work for people who actually need it. Even though I grew up in a poor, crime-infested neighborhood, going to bad schools with large Hispanic and black populations, I was competing against other Asians who went to premium schools with great, or at least better, educational programs in neighborhoods where there weren't robberies or shootings. I also happen to know a black girl whose parents are both physicians, who sent her to wonderful schools, and now she is going to one of the top medical schools.

Agreed. But should ppl use it if they can?

 

[TheSky]

In an ideal world, I think a version of affirmative action may be okay. However, in this ideal world, this means evaluating individuals rather than races-- a black may just as well be more privileged than an Asian in both the real and the ideal world, so an individual evaluation is most effective. This could be implemented by evaluating schools, both high school and middle school, and neighborhoods, and giving them numbers based on crime rates, test scores, AP classes available, etc.

As to how to make it completely fair-- that's a dilemma, even in this ideal world. As some writer put it in a book that I read, there are some rich kids whose parents paid for them to hand out clean needles in Africa or wherever so they can pad their resumes. I certainly didn't have opportunities like this; even on medical trips during college you had to put down large deposits which I didn't have. However, should we penalize these students for being rich? For their parents working hard so their children could have opportunities? For actually toiling in the hot African sun handing out clean needles while I sat in my room at home, albeit a cramped one that I share with siblings? Also, I don't think affirmative action can ever be completely fair. What if someone grew up poor because they had miserly parents with large salaries? The college may view them as rich, even though the children didn't reap any of the benefits of being rich. The med school is only going to think the child is a whiny brat for complaining that he or she went to poor schools because he or she had money, even if he or she didn't see much of it.
This is similar to the case of parents who tried to save for their childrens' college educations and cut down on luxuries in the years preceding college, as compared to parents with lower salaries who blew their salaries on luxuries. I have seen this case happen (and many, many times, unfortunately). It was difficult to imagine how someone with that kind of job could afford all the brand-name clothes and fancy vacations, yet the child ended up qualifying for a scholarship for the underprivileged because she supposedly grew up poor.

 

[flaahless]

They should get rid of affirmative action completely.

Affirmative action isn't fair; it doesn't work for people who actually need it. Even though I grew up in a poor, crime-infested neighborhood, going to bad schools with large Hispanic and black populations, I was competing against other Asians who went to premium schools with great, or at least better, educational programs in neighborhoods where there weren't robberies or shootings. I also happen to know a black girl whose parents are both physicians, who sent her to wonderful schools, and now she is going to one of the top medical schools.

Affirmative Action is much more than a racial policy, however it always seems to boil down to the random black student from the upperclass family. It seems that whenever a minority does better than some arrogant jerk thinks they can do, the jerk pulls the AA card. As if URM students just receive some extravagant advantage over everyone else. Weird.

Look man, if those were your life experiences and you feel they greatly influenced your current position in life, then by all means discuss them eloquently in your personal statement and secondary essays. I guarantee that adcoms will take that into heavy consideration when reviewing your file.

I wish the AAMC would post the accepted percentages of disadvantaged students vs. non-disadvantaged students so we could see how much med schools take it into consideration.

 

[flaahless]

In an ideal world, I think a version of affirmative action may be okay. However, in this ideal world, this means evaluating individuals rather than races-- a black may just as well be more privileged than an Asian in both the real and the ideal world, so an individual evaluation is most effective. This could be implemented by evaluating schools, both high school and middle school, and neighborhoods, and giving them numbers based on crime rates, test scores, AP classes available, etc.

As to how to make it completely fair-- that's a dilemma, even in this ideal world. As some writer put it in a book that I read, there are some rich kids whose parents paid for them to hand out clean needles in Africa or wherever so they can pad their resumes. I certainly didn't have opportunities like this; even on medical trips during college you had to put down large deposits which I didn't have. However, should we penalize these students for being rich? For their parents working hard so their children could have opportunities? For actually toiling in the hot African sun handing out clean needles while I sat in my room at home, albeit a cramped one that I share with siblings? Also, I don't think affirmative action can ever be completely fair. What if someone grew up poor because they had miserly parents with large salaries? The college may view them as rich, even though the children didn't reap any of the benefits of being rich. The med school is only going to think the child is a whiny brat for complaining that he or she went to poor schools because he or she had money, even if he or she didn't see much of it.
This is similar to the case of parents who tried to save for their childrens' college educations and cut down on luxuries in the years preceding college, as compared to parents with lower salaries who blew their salaries on luxuries. I have seen this case happen (and many, many times, unfortunately). It was difficult to imagine how someone with that kind of job could afford all the brand-name clothes and fancy vacations, yet the child ended up qualifying for a scholarship for the underprivileged because she supposedly grew up poor.

But that is not the main purpose of affirmative action. Affirmative action is a policy to counter systemic opression and help opressed peoples reach positions of power. Not just racial opression, but gender opression, sexual preference, etc. To this day, the group that has benefitted most from affirmative action has been caucasian women. But I think since African Americans have been the most vocal proponents of affirmative action there is a collective misconception that its a racial thing when it's not. Please don't perpetuate the misconception.