Applying for a Research Internship in the Summer (Highschool Student)

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by lebronjames, Mar 27, 2007.

  1. lebronjames

    lebronjames Junior Member
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    Hello there medical brothers!

    I did not really know where to post this but I guess this section is the closest it'll come to highschool discussion, please take it easy on me.

    I'm applying for a heart and stroke foundation research internship this summer (grade 11) and I need to write a short essay on a research I would develop, explain how to tackle it and present the results. (research about cardiovascular diseases)

    And I was wondering where I could find examples of medical papers so I can get used to "medical" writing (suggested by the guy who presented this program to our school). He recommended pubmed.org but I'm having trouble finding one that is longer than one paragraph.

    Can anyone help me? Tips would be GREATLY appreciated, I really want to get into this program, it will be a great start to my career in cardiology.

    Thanks everyone.

    ps: theres alot more to applying, but i need help most with the essay
     
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  3. SpartyFan

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    Although you will not appreciate this advice I suggest going to summer camp and having fun! You can learn about this stuff when your older! ENJOY!!!
     
  4. TMP-SMX

    TMP-SMX Senior Member
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    Jesus man. You are still in high school. Nothing you do in high school will have any bearing whatsoever to admission to college. Nothing you do in college will have much bearing to get into a residency. So the step after residency would be a fellowship in cardiology. You think what you do now will matter at all? Give me a break and enjoy your youth. There is no way in hell you could be so set in your future plans. Life has an interesting way of telling you what is going to happen instead of the other way around. You don't know enough biology to do anything worthwhile let alone the nitty gritty of research. When you are in your sophomore year of college start thinking about research.

    As for cardiology... How could you possibly know what you want to do already? You won't know in med school let alone college or high school.

    (This really sounds like you are pulling my leg, but seeing your posts from last summer I guess it is legit)
     
  5. twick121

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    pub med is absolutely amazing. First off, ALL the papers are much longer than a paragraph. What I'm sure you are looking at is what is called the abstract, a quick summary.

    Secondly, don't bother reading the whole article in pub med. Chances are you will understand nothing in the article. In 11th grade you do not have the background needed to get through them. Heck as a graduating senior I barely have the basis to just get a grasp on what is going on.

    Enjoy your summer and have fun like real kids do
     
  6. lebronjames

    lebronjames Junior Member
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    Would you guys recommend anything else to contribute to actually applying though?

    Why can't people see it in my perspectvive; I want to know what career i could be headed towards to see if i like it or not early on and get some experience in the field at the same time.:(
     
  7. DropkickMurphy

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    I am not your brother. I am thankful for that fact.

    What if I refuse?

    No, research about porcine ejaculate.

    That's because you have NO idea what you're doing and no business being involved in research if you can't recognize an abstract when you see one.

    An even better start would be finishing with high school and maybe losing your virginity at some point before you enter college. It's very difficult to pipet properly if you have overdeveloped muscles in the arm of your dominant hand.

    You're not welcome.

    You need more help than can be given to you by someone on an internet forum. May I recommend someone with prescribing authority?
     
  8. fotografía

    fotografía Junior Member
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    Take it one step at a time. Figure out in college if medicine is a career for you by shadowing physicians, and by taking premed courses and seeing if you do well in them.

    If you're really set on doing research this summer, here's some advice: make your proposal realistic. As a HS student, your skills are pretty limited, and so you will likely be making a small contribution to a larger project. Be clear about what the goals of the larger project are, and what YOUR specific role in it is. And make sure that your role is realistic given how much training you will need to undergo before you are competent in a lab.
     
  9. DropkickMurphy

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    To the OP: read the above as "Are you really that eager to be someone's bitch?"
     
  10. fotografía

    fotografía Junior Member
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    Truth. Thanks for the translation.
     
  11. SpartyFan

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    Although I have no idea what your research project will entail I can guarentee you that all you will be doing is bitch work. Actually, you probably won't be doing bitch work as you would have no idea how to do that. Trust me, you do not want to do this program as you will hate every moment of it seeing that you will have NO idea what is going on. Do you even know what a bicuspid is? What about the difference between an artery and a vein? Dropkick said it best, your goal during this upcomign summer should be getting some ass and not being a lab bitch!
     
  12. DropkickMurphy

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    And we mean something a little more detailed than the direction of blood flow relative to the heart and the oxygen and CO2 tensions of the blood contents. :smuggrin:
     
  13. Green Pirate

    Green Pirate Neurotic Neuro Enthusiast
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    this news is troubling to me...:(
     
  14. lebronjames

    lebronjames Junior Member
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    I don't understand... Why the hostility? It's hard to take seriously of your "get some ass" logic, as I'm not desparate for girls right now. Some info posted here was helpful, but I appreciate the PMs ive received on the more serious side. It's a 3 week program, its definately NOT going to be a waste of a summer. Bicuspid? I didn't learn that yet but I could always look it up. Artery and veins I know of...

    DKM- 8k posts and you treat members like this? you do realize not every highschool student is a ******* and just wants to randomly take an internship in the summer.


    Please, I have a high GPA. All I'm asking for is tips for writing medical essays, apparently you guys interpreted it as "im desparate i have no plans for the summer so im gonna apply for this internship"
     
  15. Samosas

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    a gunner in the making... someone grab a camera.

    and btw, its despErate.
     
  16. TMP-SMX

    TMP-SMX Senior Member
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    My recommendation is just to relax and enjoy your summers of youth. And don't mind DKM, his sarcasm and sharp tongue is what keeps this place going. Anyway, I'd say maybe volunteer at a hospital or something simple. Try to develop your character and get some idea of what medicine is about.
     
  17. lebronjames

    lebronjames Junior Member
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    More pathetic and immature as well, if I may add.
     
  18. DropkickMurphy

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    I have a feeling your tenure here at SDN will be short and unproductive- just like your summer plans. :thumbdown:
     
  19. SpartyFan

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    All I am trying to say is that you will gain NOTHING from your three week experience. Even if you were the smartest person in the world you could not accomplish any signficant research in three weeks thus your time in this laboratory will be a waste.

    My friend has two bicuspids btw and I make fun of his four lobes.
     
  20. lebronjames

    lebronjames Junior Member
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    If all answers i get are like yours, it might as well be :thumbdown:
     
  21. BigRedPremed

    BigRedPremed Senior Member
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    Honestly, you won't get much accomplished in 3 weeks in terms of research. It sounds like a lot of work to have to write proposals and essays just for a 3 week internship. I think what all of the previous posters have been trying to say is that there are more productive uses for your summer.
     
  22. Yehosh

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    Is this thing for real? they're asking 11th graders to write a research proposition essay for a 3 week research program?

    I think that maybe you misunderstood the purpose of the essay. Otherwise, it just doesn't make any sense.
     
  23. baylormed

    baylormed On the Search
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    I don't think they are expecting professional-level material. It's probably more of an essay to see how much creativity they have and to test their knowledge of the scientific method.

    BTW, OP, don't listen to all the negativity, we all get a little cynical after spending some time on SDN (yes, me included).

    It's a 3 week program and you have nothing to lose. I wish I had done something like this earlier, it might have gotten me through the door at some competitive summer research programs (not that I'm bitter or anything).

    If you want to do it, go for it. And yes, lab people can get girls too.
     
  24. etf

    etf
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    i say go for it - even if you don't learn as much as you think you would, you'll still be ahead of the game in some way. who knows, it might spark your interest in a field that you can continue to research in undergrad. showing ambition is a lot more important than carrying out research perfunctorily. good luck.
     
  25. ADeadLois

    ADeadLois Senior Member
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    Tough love, my friend. You just need to understand that anything you do on high school has absolutely no baring on your medical career (unless you get arrested or something). Your internship is fluff, but it should help with the sciences courses you'll have to take in college. I would focus on learning on scientific writing in general rather than specifically "medical" writing (there really is no such thing). This sort of experience will help you with research you might do in college and possibly the method researchers use. Go to the library and take a look at a scientific journal.
     
  26. psipsina

    psipsina Senior Member
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    To the OP, while I think that your genuine interest is admirable, the idea of trying to make a research proposal for cardiology as Junior in high school is just absurd. I'm a first year medstudent who has disected a human heart and learned cardiovascular physiology, on top of having done alot of neuroscience research as an undergrad and worked as a clinical research coordinator for pharmaceutical hep-C studies, and it would be quite a challenge for me to write a research proposal on cardiology. With your current knowledge, there is no way for you to possibly understand how the heart functions when it is healthy, therefore there is no way for you to do research upon it. It just seems like either you have misunderstood what is being expected of you or the program is not intended for someone of your background. As a sophmore in college I began doing research and even with three years of science background beyond where you are I started off as a scutt monkey who mixed solutions, tracked mouse colonies and washed glassware. Occassionally they taught me something and by the end of the summer (3months) I had gathered enough skills to at least be able to contribute to actual research. Even then I wasn't able to design my own project in basic science, talk about clinical science. As a Junior and Senior in college (as a neuroscience major) I was just begginning to be able to read scientific articles and write my own.

    We aren't trying to discourage your dreams or be condescending but the idea of writing a cardiology research proposal at your level is just bizzarre. I think you should double check what they are expecting of you and what your role would be in this program to make sure its something thats at your level and that you aren't misinterpreting what they were asking for. I know someone who did some research at Yale in highschool but he started off just doing some glassware washing scutt and was gradually taught over a few years time the skills to be able to contribute to the resesarch.
     
  27. boodthedog

    boodthedog Members Only
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    I have a feeling some people here were made fun of a little in high school. That's ok, we all were. Seems to me that the three weeks probably will suck, but if someone came to your school perhaps it's actually appropriate for HS students. If I were you, I'd consult my English teacher on any tips for writing the essays. They shouldn't be expecting perfect medical writing from someone your age. And like someone said, you're only seeing abstracts in pubmed, which is similar to a summary. Try clicking on the title above it, but only some are available for free if you're not affiliated with some organization.
     
  28. CTtarheel

    CTtarheel Senior Member
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    It's great that you want to get a taste for research, it's something that everyone who's interested in medicine should get a taste for, even if only to decide that you hate it.

    However, as a high school student, you simply don't have the background to do any REAL research in anyone's lab. Even in college, most prof's require a few upper level classes (at least mid-level labs) before they'll take on an undergrad researcher.

    So, if you do a research thing now, you're either going to get stuck doing dishes and lab scut, or helping out working on projects that are way over your head. This is worthless lab experience. Wait until you're at least a sophomore in college and have the basic sciences done before seeking out a research project. You'll spend less time doing it, but get much more accomplished and it will be much more meaningful both to you and your med school app.
     
  29. etsuprinthead

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    if this is what you want to do, ignore the people who are telling you you're "too young" to do it. is this a program set up for high school students? if so, it sounds like you're just right for it. if i had had an opportunity like this in high school, i probably would have taken it. and, anyway, this sounds like it will help you decide if medicine is right for you. go for it.

    as for places to find articles: i usually use scholar.google.com. that's where i found most of the articles that i used for my thesis. since you're not in college and therefore can't use a college's subscription to journals, you probably will find lots of articles that you'll have to pay for to get the full-text; don't bother paying for them -- for one thing, the abstract (which you should see for free -- when you're getting what appears to be just a paragraph-long article, you're probably seeing just the abstract). you'll get the general gist of the project from the abstract; if i were you, i would try to find just a couple of full-text articles to figure out how to read the articles, and go on the information in the abstracts for the rest. i have taken a number of classes to help learn to read journal articles (in addition to classes like biochem that teach the material within the articles), so you probably won't understand most of the stuff in the articles -- i still don't always. don't worry much about that; no one expects you, as a high school student, to understand them.

    good luck!


     
  30. CTtarheel

    CTtarheel Senior Member
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    sure, go ahead and do it if you want, but I promise you that this will most likely NOT be a valuable experience for either your personal development or a med school app.

    These are the last few summers that you won't have to account for. Make some money and have fun. A few weeks of some research program is just a waste of your time.

    NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING you do in high school will seriously affect your med school application. Just get good grades, get into a decent college and don't get arrested. Enjoy this lack of responsibility while you still can!
     
  31. SirTony76

    SirTony76 Senior Member
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    I am SURE the OP will get something out of a three week program. No matter what he gets out of it I am sure it will be more than working at the pool or McDonalds or whatever. The most I ever felt I got out of research were those first few weeks of doing it. Granted I wasn't in high school, but I also went in not having much of an idea of what I was doing. If you try hard you will gain something useful out of the experience.

    TP
     
  32. LizzyM

    LizzyM the evil queen of numbers
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    Some H.S. kids do lab work beyond cleaning glassware.

    http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2005/11/69336

    It is unusual but it can happen. Any group that is sponsoring 3 week summer programs for H.S. kids wants to give the students a taste of what they can do in college. For some at-risk students, it may be the incentive to stay in school and apply to college. It may be something that they can add to their college applications.

    Some people here need to grow up -- and I don't mean the OP.
     
  33. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California
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    Seconded.

    I find it particularly ironic that premeds are jumping all over a high school kid with a pretty legitimate question. The premeds chide him and tell hiim that he should just relax and enjoy high school.

    But these same premeds make posts/questions about how to get ahead in college, while graduates/med students jump on them, saying that they should really relax and enjoy college. Then these premeds get offended and complain about how hard it is to get in to med school and how you really need to work hard to play the game.

    This kid is probably a lot more like most people on SDN than you're giving credit for. He's just starting earlier.

    And compared to all of the annoying premed questions ("What are my odds?", "Which clubs should I join?", "Is this a good EC?", etc.), I find this person's question pretty innocuous.
     
  34. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California
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    That said, OP, I can't help you. You probably have a better handle on "medical writing" than I do...
     
  35. lebronjames

    lebronjames Junior Member
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    thanks for the new and encouraging replies!

    here is the link to the program actually:

    http://ww2.heartandstroke.bc.ca/Page.asp?PageID=800&RecordID=2851&Src=research&Language=English&CategoryID=15

    some stuff i will do doing in this 3 and a half week ALL EXPENSES PAID camp will be:

    -a ride along on a working ambulance
    -a visit to the G.F. Strong Rehabilitation Centre
    -a nutrition class
    -observation of an open-heart surgery
    -a CPR certification class
    -an opportunity to participate in a heart-healthy cooking class

    they are choosing 10 students in grade 11 (junior) out of all of BC and Yukon (Canadian province/territory)

    the guidelines + app form is also on that page if anyone wants to take a look

    the research question is this:
    Research Question
    Imagine you are a cardiovascular researcher. What scientific question would you like to explore about cardiovascular disease? Using only the space provided, clearly state your research question, briefly describe how you would tackle the issue, and explain what the potential impact of the research might be.

    As some have mentioned before, I think its a legitimate camp to go to, not just to build experience, but to have some fun too :)
     
  36. NovemberWhiskey

    NovemberWhiskey Junior Member
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    Judging from this post, and many others on these forums you fit the category you just described about perfectly.

    Get over yourself DKM, you're a mid-20's ambulance driver who is years away (if ever) from applying to medical school, yet you have 8000 posts on a premed forum. I see pretty much nothing there to be proud of. :rolleyes:

    I guess attacking HS kids who show some initiative rather than working blue collar jobs for 10 years makes you feel good about yourself or something, huh? :thumbdown:
     
  37. etf

    etf
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    i disagree. i took 3 college classes in high school, got A's in them, and am thankful to god that they are included in my otherwise lackluster amcas calculated bcpm gpa.
     
  38. BigRedPremed

    BigRedPremed Senior Member
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    ouch
     
  39. DropkickMurphy

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    I haven't driven an ambulance in over 5 years (let alone done EMS as a profession) and I'm the first one to admit my flaws; but I also expect others to admit their limitations. As opposed to someone who is apparently either a glorified airborne bus driver or a flight attendant..... :rolleyes: What are your flaws? :laugh:

    Not really.....more like "swing and a miss".
     
  40. NovemberWhiskey

    NovemberWhiskey Junior Member
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    Neither. :confused:

    Hmm, well, I can tell you that bashing 17 year olds to make myself feel better is not one of my flaws :cool:
     
  41. Darkshooter326

    Darkshooter326 Senior Member
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    But bashing other SDNers with less success than you obviously is. I see from past posts you've gotten into places like Mayo and Yale, and here you've surely shown class and that you truly do fly above the rest of us, both in success and character.

    Gimme a break. :thumbdown: You're no better than Murphy.
     
  42. DropkickMurphy

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    Ah....my apologies. Someone told me that you worked for NWA.

    BTW: It has nothing to do with making myself feel better....it's more of a way of breaking the monotony of writing.
     
  43. DropkickMurphy

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    I resent that! I wouldn't want to be compared to my SDN persona, so how dare you use me as a bad example with which to insult someone else!
     
  44. lsumedgirl

    lsumedgirl Livin' the dream!
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    C'mon DKM, he's only in high school. Give him a break. Not many people know that much about research in high school, and it sounds like he's genuinely interested. He still has plenty of time to learn.
     
  45. DropkickMurphy

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    OK.....I'll leave him alone, but only for you Wheezey :D
     
  46. Yehosh

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    Ok, I get it, you're not going to be doing actual research but the essay is about what kind of research you'd hypothetically propose to do. I didn't understand you at first. My apologies.

    Now that I see the activities/courses you'll be participating in, I totally think you should do it.

    I did emergency response volunteer work in highschool and it was a blast, I had a great time and I'm sure you will too, the paramedics are usualyl awesome people. It was actually one of the experiences that drove me to become a medic and following that a physician. Watching surgery is very exciting (at least for us doctor wannabees). I've mostly seen appendectomies and gallblader stone removal so I'm sure open heart surgery will be a much grander experience.

    I think (and I'm just guessing here) that for your essay, they want it also to be an educational experience for you. So obviously you're going to have to do some self directed learning about cardiovascular physiology and pathology.

    good luck
     
  47. AtreyuRocks

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    lebron--

    to answer your question, what everyone has posted is pretty much correct. the abstract is about all you need if you want any help in figuring out what peer-reviewed articles 'are like'. aside from this fact, you need to write the essay coming from you-- you aren't a PI -- and the directors of the program will most likely realize this.

    i think this "camp" you want to attend could be a good thing for you. i have a friend who actually did some laboratory work in high school (he labeled tubs for brains, they are still labeled in his 199X handwriting haha), and now he is M2 MSTP @ Northwestern... but i can guarantee you that he didn't ask strangers for help in writing papers on stuff he has no idea about for two reasons: 1) the internet barely existed then (let alone forums), and 2) he was genuinely interested in the lab for the sake of science, and had no idea he would be an MD/PhD candidate attending NW a decade later.

    lastly, DKM's comments are good for you. if you can't handle them, then you will most likely cry when you submit to Science, Nature, or Cell and you realize that both you and your manuscript are "too ambitious".

    best of luck w/your writing.
     
  48. lord_jeebus

    lord_jeebus 和魂洋才
    Moderator Physician 15+ Year Member

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    Dear OP,

    Get a copy of the New England Journal of Medicine, Science, or Nature. They shouldn't be hard to find and any article in any of them will be a good example of what you're looking for.

    Your ambition will lead to success, even if some of the posters here don't seem to want that to happen. I'm sure you've figured out who to ignore.
     
  49. AtreyuRocks

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    forgot to mention where the OP should get such a copy... i would suggest the library since it is free.
     
  50. lord_jeebus

    lord_jeebus 和魂洋才
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    yes, definitely don't pay for one. The phrase "go to the library" was in my head the whole time I typed that...
     
  51. DropkickMurphy

    DropkickMurphy Membership Revoked
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    I wish him the best of luck, but don't wish to see him make the mistakes that so many of us have made- failing to live our lives to the fullest due to a singleminded pursuit. In fact, I apologize for being so hard on the kid and if I can be of assistance, I would be happy to offer it.
     

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