Applying for IHS residency positions vs. staff pharmacist positions as a new grad?

[Hedgehog32]

So I understand that the IHS will sometimes hire new grads into staff pharmacist positions, but that this is also pretty rare unless someone has some sort of connection or affiliation with an IHS site. Does anyone know if this is the case when it comes to applying for IHS residency positions as well? In other words, if someone hasn't completed a rotation at an IHS site and isn't otherwise affiliated with the IHS, are their chances of being offered one of their residency positions slim to none?

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[Hedgehog32]

The IHS residency application process is different from the GS hiring process. Actually, applying for an IHS residency is probably one of the best opportunities you have as a pharmacy student/recent grad to get your foot in the door with both IHS and PHS (I think they are still letting IHS pharmacy residents commission with the PHS Commissioned Corps). If you're able to commission as a PHS officer you make pretty good money for a pharmacy resident. I say go for it - you miss all the shots you don't take.

Thanks for the advice. Would you say the chances of being accepted into an IHS residency program are greater than getting hired as a new grad in a full-time staffing position with the IHS? I understand there are contracting companies as well who specialize in placing pharmacists at certain IHS sites for temporary assignments.

 

[Hedgehog32]

@giga So I'm actually in the process of applying to at least several IHS residency sites, and I noticed that all the sites only take 1 resident per year. I know you said before that you didn't do an IHS residency, but would you happen to know anything at all about the competitiveness of being selected for a position at an IHS site? I'm definitely still going to submit my applications (especially since the application process doesn't cost anything), but realistically speaking, does someone who didn't complete any rotations at an IHS site or have any Native American-relevant extracurricular activities really have much of a shot?

 

[Hedgehog32]

Who is an ideal candidate for IHS residencies/what are IHS residency programs looking for in a candidate is a great question to ask current IHS residents and/or program directors. I believe you can still register for the ASHP Vitrual Residency Showcase, which IHS is participating in, and have an opportunity to ask them directly then. (I am in no way affiliated with ASHP or the Virtual Residency Showcase, and do not know exactly how the virtual showcase works, but I'm guessing it would be a good resource for gaining more insight on your question).

Thanks for the tip; I'll go ahead and sign up for the showcase. BTW, is there any chance you'd happen to know which residency sites are most vs least competitive?

 

[spacecowgirl]

Generally large city academic centers are more competitive. Rural areas less so. But the match defies any sort of predictability so trying to gauge competition and basing your applications on that is not very helpful. Apply to the sites you'd consider working in for a year.

 

[beautifulrobot]

Generally large city academic centers are more competitive. Rural areas less so. But the match defies any sort of predictability so trying to gauge competition and basing your applications on that is not very helpful. Apply to the sites you'd consider working in for a year.

exactly this.

 

[Hedgehog32]

I don't know for sure (I don't have any data to confirm), but if I had to guess the more urban programs (e.g., PIMC) are probably more desirable to more candidates (just as a numbers game - there are probably more people who live or have lived in the more urban locations than the more rural or frontier locations). My other 2 cents is you should aim to apply to about 10-15 sites (just a general rule of thumb when applying to residency programs). Also, just to confirm, you are aware the deadline for applying is 12/20/2019?

Thanks for the advice. Yeah, I'm actually going to be getting my last two references' signed & sealed envelopes containing their LOR forms this week and will be getting everything submitted and postmarked by Friday. I'll probably apply to PIMC and a few of the other sites that are somewhat close to large cities along with a handful of rural sites as well.

BTW, would you happen to know if their interviews are heavily clinical in nature?

 

[Hedgehog32]

I don't know about the interviews. Again, if I had to guess, they are probably not that different from your typical PGY1 residency interview, so likely there is a clinical component, but mostly they just want to get a sense if you would be a good fit for their program personality-wise.

I understand. The reason I asked if there was a clinical component to the interview is because I haven't started studying for the NAPLEX yet, so in the event I'm offered an interview at one (or more) of their sites, I just want to make sure I don't walk into it with any gaping knowledge disparities and end up making myself look like an idiot.

 

[Hedgehog32]

I understand. The reason I asked if there was a clinical component to the interview is because I haven't started studying for the NAPLEX yet, so in the event I'm offered an interview at one (or more) of their sites, I just want to make sure I don't walk into it with any gaping knowledge disparities and end up making myself look like an idiot.

BTW, just out of curiosity, do you know what most applicants who interview at some of the more remote locations do for accommodations? Aren't some of them so remote that the closest hotels are 5+ hours away? Just curious (kind of a random strange question, I know, LOL). Also, should research experience that was completed during undergrad (5+ years before starting pharmacy school) be left out of the LOI and application in general?

 

[spacecowgirl]

The interviewers will provide that information.

 

[Hedgehog32]

@giga Ok, so this is probably going to sound like a dumb question, but on the IHS residency program website, it states that the package containing the four reference forms must be postmarked by midnight on 12/20/19. I figure they mean that the package must be postmarked by 11:59 PM on 12/20, but technically "midnight" on 12/20 is Thursday night. Obviously I don't want to intentionally wait until the latest possible time on the deadline day to get the documents mailed off, but one of my references won't be getting their form to me until Thursday (possibly after the Post Office has closed), so that's why I was wondering if it would be okay if I got everything mailed out by Friday afternoon.

 

[Hels2007]

BTW, just out of curiosity, do you know what most applicants who interview at some of the more remote locations do for accommodations? Aren't some of them so remote that the closest hotels are 5+ hours away? Just curious (kind of a random strange question, I know, LOL)

The IHS site where I did my rotation, which was about an hour away from the town with accommodations, had a couple trailers on campus that rotating or visiting students/applicants used. The same was true of the couple sites where my friends rotated - maybe it's true of all of them except the rare ones located in major cities? Anyway, they will tell you what to do.

 

[Hedgehog32]

The IHS site where I did my rotation, which was about an hour away from the town with accommodations, had a couple trailers on campus that rotating or visiting students/applicants used. The same was true of the couple sites where my friends rotated - maybe it's true of all of them except the rare ones located in major cities? Anyway, they will tell you what to do.

Thanks for the info; that's interesting. I sort of figured the arrangements were something along those lines.

 

[Hedgehog32]

I get it, I tend to get like this as well when I am about to submit a major application for something... Obviously try to mail it out on 12/19 if you can, but if the best you can do is 12/20 then that's the best you can do. I don't administer the program and don't want to give you any false reassurance. If you're really concerned about it you can send CAPT Rebecca Reyes an email (her contact is at the bottom of the how to apply page: How To Apply | Residency Program). Just be courteous and professional (address the email to CAPT Reyes) and explain that you are waiting on one more letter of reference and you want to confirm that if your packet is postmarked by close of business 12/20/19 that it will be accepted.

Also I would go ahead and mention the research you did in undergrad, especially if it was a project you had a leadership role in or made significant contributions towards. If it was just pipetting for a couple of hours a week for a few months I probably would leave it out.

Thanks for the advice. I'll go ahead and include the research project on my CV, even though it wasn't healthcare-related (it was an environmental science project). I'll also go ahead and email CAPT Reyes. So captains in the USPHS are actually addressed as "CAPT," not "Captain?"

 

[Hedgehog32]

Yes, "CAPT" is the correct way to address a USPHS Captain / O-6 in writing. No punctuation, all caps.

Thanks. So now, my letter of intent is basically done, but it's about one paragraph too long (the IHS residency websites specifies that it should be 1 page max.). This may be another dumb question, but would you happen to have any idea as to whether or not it is necessary to include the residency director's contact info at the top of the letter (e.g., name, title, IHS site address, date)? If I delete this section, the contents of my letter will fit onto one page, but it seems like most of the online resources indicate that this information is necessary to include on any LOI....

 

[BidingMyTime]

BTW, just out of curiosity, do you know what most applicants who interview at some of the more remote locations do for accommodations? Aren't some of them so remote that the closest hotels are 5+ hours away?

I have a hard time believing there is anywhere in the US where the closest hotel is 5+ hours. Where would this be at? If this did exist, I would imagine the site would be able to set you with someone who rented a room out of their house or something.

@giga Ok, so this is probably going to sound like a dumb question, but on the IHS residency program website, it states that the package containing the four reference forms must be postmarked by midnight on 12/20/19. I figure they mean that the package must be postmarked by 11:59 PM on 12/20, but technically "midnight" on 12/20 is Thursday night. Obviously I don't want to intentionally wait until the latest possible time on the deadline day to get the documents mailed off, but one of my references won't be getting their form to me until Thursday (possibly after the Post Office has closed), so that's why I was wondering if it would be okay if I got everything mailed out by Friday afternoon.

That seems pretty clear that your package must be post-marked by 11:59 12/20. I would definitely talk to them about getting an exception approved if you can't meet that deadline. Why have decided to apply last minute for this (if I were the residency director, that it what I would ask before deciding to grant or deny you request for an extension.)

 

[Hedgehog32]

I have a hard time believing there is anywhere in the US where the closest hotel is 5+ hours. Where would this be at? If this did exist, I would imagine the site would be able to set you with someone who rented a room out of their house or something.



That seems pretty clear that your package must be post-marked by 11:59 12/20. I would definitely talk to them about getting an exception approved if you can't meet that deadline. Why have decided to apply last minute for this (if I were the residency director, that it what I would ask before deciding to grant or deny you request for an extension.)

To answer your first question, apparently some of their sites (like Pine Ridge, SD) are way out in the middle of nowhere and hours away from pretty much anything (I've never been, though). To respond to the second part of your post, I emailed someone with IHS, and they said that (as I figured) the documents just need to be postmarked by Friday night. To answer your question about why I applied at the last minute, I only decided to apply to residency programs within the last couple of weeks. At this point I'm basically firing off applications to anything and everything.

 

[BidingMyTime]

To answer your first question, apparently some of their sites (like Pine Ridge, SD) are way out in the middle of nowhere and hours away from pretty much anything (I've never been, though). To respond to the second part of your post, I emailed someone with IHS, and they said that (as I figured) the documents just need to be postmarked by Friday night. To answer your question about why I applied at the last minute, I only decided to apply to residency programs within the last couple of weeks. At this point I'm basically firing off applications to anything and everything.

I just did a Google search and found several hotels 30 - 40 miles from Pine Ridge reservation. Many people drive further than that every day to work, and that is probably 1 hour drive at worst. I'm not sure who would have told you the nearest hotel was 5+ hours away, but that is crazy. I have a hard time imagining anyplace in the world outside of Antarctica or inner Australia where the nearest hotel would be 5+ hours away. Don't believe everything you hear, people can be crazy exaggerators.

 

[Hedgehog32]

I just did a Google search and found several hotels 30 - 40 miles from Pine Ridge reservation. Many people drive further than that every day to work, and that is probably 1 hour drive at worst. I'm not sure who would have told you the nearest hotel was 5+ hours away, but that is crazy. I have a hard time imagining anyplace in the world outside of Antarctica or inner Australia where the nearest hotel would be 5+ hours away. Don't believe everything you hear, people can be crazy exaggerators.

Apparently so. Still, I would to do a residency/get a job in an area that's more proximal to a big city, but I guess beggars can't be choosers in the modern-era pharmacist job market.

 

[Hels2007]

Pine Ridge is where a lot of my classmates rotated. They do have housing on campus for students, and probably for residents, too. It is kind of middle-of-nowhere-ish, but there are beautiful national parks nearby, and some cute little towns.

 

[Hedgehog32]

Maybe you can mess with the formatting a little bit, increase the margins a bit or something, but I wouldn't recommend removing the information entirely. If you feel comfortable with it, feel free to PM me a de-identified version of your LOI and I'll take a look at it tonight and see if I can help you shorten it up a bit.

Thank you for offering; that would be great. I'll go ahead and PM you now.