Applying next year - very non-trad applicant - feedback please

[sharmi]

Thank you for taking the time for reading my post. I have read some feedback that some of the more experienced members (compared to me) have offerred on this forum. It helps tremendously to get feedback from someone that is not biased by knowing you personally. Can you review my stats and let me know what my chances are ? Please be very candid.

Plan is to apply next Summer - on day 1. Not sure how soon we can apply.
Undergrad and Grad from foreign school with honors in Chemistry. Specialized in Organic Chemistry in Grad School. Minor in Physics and Math.
Wanted to go into research, but took up a great position in Consulting (SW Engineering) with PwC (well, it seemed great at that time - staright out of school)
Worked full-time (and still do) in Software Engineering/Operations in Forture 100 companies like IBM over the past 10+ years - got promoted over the years - several times to management positions - and can get excellant LOR from a senior Partner/VP at IBM
Older applicant - in my thirties now
Will have completed between 65 - 70 semester credits between two 4-Year universities in the US (Cal State and UC Berkeley Extn) covering all pre-reqs and more but minus OChem 2 and Calculus before I apply.
Current GPA for all classes taken in the US is around 3.9 for 47 semester credits - 1 B and all A's.
Plan to take Calculus in the Summer of Application year and OChem 2 over the Fall, same year.
Completed several upper division courses by the time I apply (Biochemistry, Genetics, Physiology, Immunology, Anatomy, Embryology, Microbiology, Cell Bio) since I did not have any Bio after my 10th grade and wanted to have a better feel of what I was getting into.
Completed 2 semesters of English - got A's.
Plan to continue taking classes next year towards my goal of 90 sems credits till I get accepted
English is not my first language.
MCAT score 30 Q but not well balanced (11P/7V/12B) - took it this January. This was my second attempt. (First atte,mpt was 28 Q - 11P/6V/11B - managed to raise only one point in VR even after private tutoring - so not intending to take it again). Will English not being my first language play any role ? I can write fairly well - got Q in MCAT both times - but somehow can't seem to do well in VR.
California resident - I guess this will go against me
Volunteered at Agnews developmental Center (for persons with developmental disabilities) for 2 years (between 2006 and 2008) - over 100+ hours - have excellant LOR
Will have volunteered an additional 200-300 hours as Kaiser Hospital (late 2009 - 2011) before I apply
Volunteered at a retirement home in India for several years during undergrad / grad / first few years of my career
Have been sponsoring the food, lodging and education of an orphan child in India since 2004 - long before the med school bug bit me.
No medical or science related research experience
Work (over the years) involved research and innovation in computer software development - but nothing academic, hence no publications/papers
Not URM - both parents had attended grad school and had graduate degrees - also husband is a CIO - so no special treatment there.
Took 2009 off to have my second child - since I gathered that I wouldn't have time for that if I waited for med school to happen
Have 2 small children - took (and still do) all my classes / volunteering after working full-time - it was hard and still is - husband is supportive - but thinks I am nuts to get into this mess at this point from a well-settled life with a 150K+ job
Plan to apply in CA, TX, NY, PA, MA, NC, GA, IL, DC, MD, VA, etc. - mostly coastal states with decent IT hubs. Husband is willing to get a new position and reloacate with me.


Questions
When is soonest one can apply for 2011 app cycle ?
What kind of LORs would work best for me ?
Which schools should I apply and what are my chances at these schools ?
Do I stand any chance at CA schools ?
How will my MCAT VR sub-score impact my app (even keeping in mind that ESL for me and my Writing score is Q) ?
Would I need to complete 90 sems credits in the US before I matriculate (hopefully ) ?
What kind of stuff should I write in my PS ? There is a lot to write - since so many years of experience, but I really didn't imagine nor ever wanted to go to medical school till my mom passed away after being on life support for 2 months and I started volunteering at Agnews. What should I focus on ? Will it be considered a cliche if I write about my mom ?
I would appreciate any other feedback on my application.

Thank you.

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[Catalystik]

Questions
When is soonest one can apply for 2011 app cycle ?
What kind of LORs would work best for me ?
Which schools should I apply and what are my chances at these schools ?
Do I stand any chance at CA schools ?
How will my MCAT VR sub-score impact my app (even keeping in mind that ESL for me and my Writing score is Q) ?
Would I need to complete 90 sems credits in the US before I matriculate (hopefully ) ?
What kind of stuff should I write in my PS ? There is a lot to write - since so many years of experience, but I really didn't imagine nor ever wanted to go to medical school till my mom passed away after being on life support for 2 months and I started volunteering at Agnews. What should I focus on ? Will it be considered a cliche if I write about my mom ?

Earliest application time is the first week of June.

For LORs, I'd ask two recent science teachers where you got an A in the class, who can comment favorably on your academic prowess, and a nonscience teacher who could comment at length on your verbal skills, written skills, critical thinking ability, etc. Ask the science faculty to try to insert similiar comments as well. A work supervisor letter would be good as well.

In choosing schools, you'll need to keep an eye on the bottom tenth percentile for VS when you look through the MSAR. Be sure to include UIllinois and Rosalind Franklin (both have a 7). There are a limited number of schools in this category, so you'll have to stretch to some with 8s and hope that your ESL status will be considered (OHSU likes nontrads, BTW). Applying widely will be very important for you, as you won't know which schools will give you this consideration.

Getting into California schools is difficult even with extraordinary stats. I would be surprised if you were accepted there, to be blunt.

Some schools may require you to complete 90 semester US hours before application. Others will take into consideration that you already have a foreign bachelors degree (and you'll presumably be submitting a transcript evaluation from a service to each school). You'll need to do the research on each school to know their minimum application requirements. (UIllinois, BTW, has a more unique requirement for behavioral science coursework.)

Your PS should be about your journey toward medicine, not about your life story. Your mom is a part of that story, but should not be the primary focus. This story is about you, why medicine attracted you, and how you tested that attraction to be sure medicine is right for you.

 

[sharmi]

First of all, thank you for taking the time to read my long post and offerring your feedback.

Is the 90 semester credit requirement before I apply or before I matriculate (hopefully) ? The LORs should not be a problem - I can get one from a science prof, one from a non-science prof and one composite letter from the post bacc program I am doing at UC Berkeley extn. A letter from prior manager will also not be an issue. Are my ECs good enough ? I don't have any formal research experience, so will that be a negetive for me ? I will try to include some shadowing this year, if I can. I will lookup the 3 schools that you mentioned for sure, and probably apply there.

I am open to any other feedback that you or someone else may have.

 

[Catalystik]

Your lack of research will be more than made up for by your nontrad status and rich life experience. Your clinical experience is fine. You need formal shadowing; aim for 60-80 hours, to include a primary care doc. Teaching and leadership are desirable, as are artistic endeavors, hobbies, sports. Any of those? Sponsoring the orphan, not being a hands-on experience, won't count for much on a med school application..

Schools vary in their credit hour requirements before you submit your application, so I can't make a reassuring generalization. Do the research.

A committee letter is usually all you need. A job or volunteer supervisor letter is just extra.

 

[sharmi]

Now you are making me think hard - about myself. There are certain things I do - but I am so used to it - that I take it for granted.

I used to paint quite well before, but now with work + school + 2 children, I can barely use my talent to only help out on my son's several school projects. Well, at least he gets great appreciation for those !
I do volunteer from time to time at my son's school as a teacher's assistant, take them for field trips - does that count ? Also, I love soccer, and volunteered as one of the two assistant coaches for my son's soccer team. Couldn't be the coach, it needs way too much time commitment. Could I mention it somewhere on my app ?
Moreover, I oversee the training and on several occasions have trained new hires at work. Its mainly around systems and software. Can I factor this as my teaching experience ?
Also, does my job as a mid-level manager count as leadership ? What about me, program managing several cross-functional initiatives/implementations at work ?

Your inputs are well appreciated and greatly valued.

 

[Catalystik]

1) I used to paint quite well before, but now with work + school + 2 children, I can barely use my talent to only help out on my son's several school projects. Well, at least he gets great appreciation for those !

2) I do volunteer from time to time at my son's school as a teacher's assistant, take them for field trips - does that count ?

3) Also, I love soccer, and volunteered as one of the two assistant coaches for my son's soccer team. Couldn't be the coach, it needs way too much time commitment. Could I mention it somewhere on my app ?

4) Moreover, I oversee the training and on several occasions have trained new hires at work. Its mainly around systems and software. Can I factor this as my teaching experience ?

5) Also, does my job as a mid-level manager count as leadership ? What about me, program managing several cross-functional initiatives/implementations at work ?

So now you see thew value of "rich life experience." You have much to draw from and it all makes for a better med school application:

1) Artistic Endeavors (but I'd focus on your past activity more than helping your child).
2) Community Service
3) Community Service or Teaching
4) Teaching
5) Definitely leadership. Especially mention any initiatives you suggested or implemented. Using this to show teamwork is good too, so give credit where it is due. Leading meetings, disciplinary action, recognition of your contributions to the company are appropriate to mention here. but be succinct.

Wasn't that easy? Unlike many, you will not be left floundering for the proper activities at the last minute.

 

[sharmi]

Thank you !
I will be making a note of all this conversation and will build on it over the rest of this year.

Are there folks that would be willing to read and comment on my PS ?

I hate doing things last minute (unless I have to) - I am usually prepared for my deadlines before they are there haunting me or my exams at school - so I would really like some constructive feedback on my PS and hope to enrich it with comments from individuals more experienced than myself in the application process - much before the June 1 date.

 

[Catalystik]

There is a volunteer PS readers list stickied to the top of Premed Allo forum.

 

[sharmi]

Any pointers on how to get shadowing opportunities ?

 

[Catalystik]

1. Ask docs you meet while gaining clinical experience.
2. Ask your personal physician or that of a family member.
3. Ask relatives of friends.
4. Ask the premed advisor at your school if they have a list of possibilities.
5. Call stranger's medical offices and ask their nurse if you can shadow.

 

[sharmi]

1. Ask docs you meet while gaining clinical experience.

2. Ask your personal physician or that of a family member.
3. Ask relatives of friends.
4. Ask the premed advisor at your school if they have a list of possibilities.
5. Call stranger's medical offices and ask their nurse if you can shadow.

1, 2 and 4 didn't work (I did not try 3), but 5 DID! And in a big way!
I am set up to shadow a dermatologist and an orthopedic surgeon this month and have some (a neurologist and a pediatrician) lined up for next month.

The dermatologist does surgeries too and he is willing to let me shadow him on his surgery days too! Will do that next month. This is so exciting! Also, he is a current faculty at UCSF, so my intent is to get an LOR out of him. Wish me luck!

Thanks for the absolutely fabulous idea about cold calling stranger's medical offices. I tried a dozen, 7 said no or were unreachable, but 5 actually said yes. I will try calling the next batch of medical offices in my area (there are tons) again later this week.

My only advice to others in a similar position is not to loose hope.

 

[Catalystik]

Your persistence paid off, where I think many give up due to frequent rebuffs. Well done!

I think you have enough variety now, since your list includes a primary care doc, unless there is a particular specialty you'd really like some exposure to.

 

[sharmi]

Hi Catalystik,

Retook the MCAT again - score 33P, balanced (12 PS, 10 VR, 11 BS).
Could have been better - but I am quite happy about the 3 point improvement in verbal from 7 to 10.
Applying in early June - LOR's all set, working on getting the composite letter from my Post Bacc program now. GPA from 61 credits taken in the US at the time of application will be 3.901.

Will be taking Calculus over the summer and OChem 2 over the fall. Can I update my application on AMCAS later with the grades?

Have done 80 hours of shadowing so far and will be done with 100+ hours before I apply.
Volunteer hours - 150 at Kaiser Hospital and counting as well as over 200 at Agnews Developmental Center along with a great LOR.
No research - don't plan on applying MD/PhD.

I was wondering about taking a non-science course or two next spring - some of the schools I applied require it and if it turns out by year end that I might end up going to one of those, I would need to take those courses.
I am thinking of taking Psych and Spanish. Languages seem to interest me, I speak, read and write 3 languages fluently and can only speak a fourth - so I would love to learn Spanish....and Psych does seem to have some relevance to medicine....in my mind. What do you think?

Also, If I send you a list of schools I intend to apply to, can spend some time validating those?

 

[Catalystik]

Nice job on the MCAT retake!

No, you can't update the AMCAS transcript once it is verified. But you can let schools know about new coursework in update letters where permitted. And of course you'd send a final official transcript to whichever school you decide to attend.

Spanish and Psych are both very useful. I use what I learned in those college classes to this day. Put your intended coursework as "Future" so it will be on the AMCAS application and schools know your intentions.

I had glanced over your school list on the other thread and was struck by the overabundance of research-strong institutions considering you have no research. Being way behind on my WAMC responses, it will be awhile before can get to a more detailed analysis, but if you want to repost the list here, I'll get to it eventually.

 

[sharmi]

Hi Catalystic,

Thanks for getting back to me quickly. I tried to apply to almost every school in the states of CA, NY, PA, MA, IL, CT, DC, OH, NJ, NH and OR. The ones I left out were either because they needed 90 credits completed in the US or because they had multiple odd pre-reqs that I could not fulfil or because they rarely take OOS.
Attached is my complete (including the ones that I decided not to apply). I have 35 schools that I would apply to but I would like to see the list reduced to 20 - 25. Based of your experience, you may be able to help me reduce this list further.

Thanks!

 

[Catalystik]

University of California—Davis
University of California—San Francisco
University of California—Riverside
Loma Linda University
University of California—Los Angeles
University of California—Irvine
University of California—San Diego
Georgetown University
Loyola University of Chicago
University of Chicago ***
University of Maryland
Wayne State University
Albert Einstein College of Medicine
Cornell University
Mount Sinai School of Medicine
Columbia University
New York University
New York Medical College
University of North Carolina—Chapel Hill
Wake Forest University
Case Western Reserve University
Ohio State University
University of Cincinnati
Drexel University College of Medicine
Jefferson Medical College
Temple University
University of Pennsylvania
University of Pittsburgh
Stanford University
Harvard Medical School
Yale University
Duke University ***
Rush Medical College
Rosalind Franklin University
Tufts University

Consider removing those I've bolded; definitely remove the starred schools.